Differences in Campagnolo Triples

[Ralph]

This is a good time of year to pick up some parts, and I'm thinking about buying a new Campagnolo triple crankset. As I'm getting older, the idea of having at least one of my bikes with a triple all the time gets more and more appealing, especially since I don't see how you give up much to use one. I currently have a older 8 speed triple in 30-40-50, which I use for trips to mountains, and it only weighs about 50 grams more than an alloy double centaur, and can allow slightly lighter cassette VS 13-29 and double, so to me weight is a non issue, and in many ways I like triple chainline better. Talking riding here....not racing. I've used a compact also, but for me, my age and strength level, for real climbing where I'm maybe not well aclimated, still prefer triple. Sometimes I just want that (almost) 1-1 gear.

Has anyone made a study of the various Campy triples and compared if one sticks the right leg out less than another....IE the Campy tech pages seem to show the Centaur/Comp based triples move the chainline out less (with a symetrical 111 spindle) than the Chorus/Record triples with asymetrical 111. Also some Internet info suggests (maybe) the 10 speed spacing is accomplished different ways....on Veloce it's thinner rings, on Centaur/Comp it's thinner spider. Wonder if that's so since the Centaur, Veloce, Race, and Comp look to be the same arms and spider? And I know I can buy TA rings for my existing triple, and get some custom gearing, maybe use a 28 for small ring, wonder how TA 9/10 rings on my older 8/9 triple works with 10's Campy chain?

Anyone made a study of this? Any technical reason to prefer one model of Campy Triple over another with 10's chain? Any reason you have a preference?

[oldpotatoe]

This is a good time of year to pick up some parts, and I'm thinking about buying a new Campagnolo triple crankset. As I'm getting older, the idea of having at least one of my bikes with a triple all the time gets more and more appealing, especially since I don't see how you give up much to use one. I currently have a older 8 speed triple in 30-40-50, which I use for trips to mountains, and it only weighs about 50 grams more than an alloy double centaur, and can allow slightly lighter cassette VS 13-29 and double, so to me weight is a non issue, and in many ways I like triple chainline better. Talking riding here....not racing. I've used a compact also, but for me, my age and strength level, for real climbing where I'm maybe not well aclimated, still prefer triple. Sometimes I just want that (almost) 1-1 gear.

Has anyone made a study of the various Campy triples and compared if one sticks the right leg out less than another....IE the Campy tech pages seem to show the Centaur/Comp based triples move the chainline out less (with a symetrical 111 spindle) than the Chorus/Record triples with asymetrical 111. Also some Internet info suggests (maybe) the 10 speed spacing is accomplished different ways....on Veloce it's thinner rings, on Centaur/Comp it's thinner spider. Wonder if that's so since the Centaur, Veloce, Race, and Comp look to be the same arms and spider? And I know I can buy TA rings for my existing triple, and get some custom gearing, maybe use a 28 for small ring, wonder how TA 9/10 rings on my older 8/9 triple works with 10's Campy chain?

Anyone made a study of this? Any technical reason to prefer one model of Campy Triple over another with 10's chain? Any reason you have a preference?

Chainline is pretty much the same for all of them whether they be Record/Chorus/Centaur/Comp as long as you use the proper BB. TA rings work great with all the triples mentioned and TA are the 'go to' rings I sell for triples. Also use any with a 10s chain, they all work fine, with ERGO and a triple FD, they are will work. With Campagnolo, mixing rings, ders, cranks is very easy and all work very well.

[Dekonick]

I wasn't sure if I was going to like a triple but put one on my Bedford (it is a touring rig after all)

Love it. It might weigh a tad more but offers flexibility to ride any terrain.

[Alan]

I have several Campy triples both 9 and 10 speed and they all work well. My only suggestion is to use a Phil Wood bb as I have had very bad luck with the Campy bbs. I was mostly using the lowest level but they lasted about a year or so which is quite annoying.

You should be able to find used or NOS triple stuff (crank and f der) as most people don't want to use it anymore. I have a compact setup to try but haven't gotten it on yet.

Alan

[Ken Robb]

I like cranks like TA Zephyr or Sugino with my 10 spd Chorus group. Many rings to choose from so you can get the gearing you really want. Mine are 48-38-28 and 46-36-24. They shift perfectly. The Zephyr is no longer made but TA has others. The Suginos are available at $120 +/-.

[97CSI]

oldpotatoe sold me a TA 26T small ring on my last visit to Boulder. It was quite useful with a 13-29 rear when my flat-land lungs started to crater in those rarified airs above 7500'. Am running 50-38-26 (two smaller rings are TA) on RT arms and it works very well with a Centaur mid-length RD/FD and '05 Chorus Ergo shifters. Makes spinning going up hill much easier.

[Dave]

When I used Campy triple drivetrains, I always bought FSA cranks because I wanted a 53/39/28. At the time, the ISIS cranks were cheap and so was a replacement 28T ring. Like most triples, the tread width is 8-10mm wider than a double. These days, I'd be more reluctant to try an FSA outboard crank, but at least they have made some changes, using a wave washer to set the bearing preload. Shimano uses the somewhat crude pinch bolts on the left crankarm. I'd love to see an ultratorque triple, but that will never happen.

I always advise folks who think the additional tread width to be a problem, to check out possible problems with foot alignment that might be cured with Lemond wedges and be sure to move the cleat as far out as possible to bring the shoe close to the crankarm. I see a lot of people with a good 10-15mm gap between their shoe and the crankarm.

[Ralph]

If the spacing between the chainrings W/B OK, as some of you say it would be a nice idea to use TA 9/10 chainrings on my existing 8/9 speed Racing T Triple crank. Then I could use a 26 or 28 small ring with a 39-50 or 40-50. I already have a 50 tooth TA ring. Then I'm good in back with a 13-26 or 12-25.

Another good idea some of you have suggested, is to use a Phil Wood 110.5 BB, which has some side to side adjustment to get "stance" near equal both sides. Thanks.....I think you have talked me out of buying a new crank.

[Dave]

A Campy crank, with the proper BB, should have a tread width that is centered with the frame. An asymmetrical BB does not mean that the tread width is different from one side to another.

With a Campy triple, you have to watch the chainline to be sure that it's not too close to the seat tube. If the ST is 28.6, you can use a 45mm chainline. If the ST is larger, a 47.5mm chainline is recommended. I got by using a 46mm FSA chainline with a 32mm seat tube, but it was pushing the limit to get the FD cage to move far enough to the left.

The chainring spacing is really not what differs from 9/10/11 speed, as much as it is the shifting ramps. The Campy 11 chainring mounting tab is 1mm thinner that 9 speed, but the c-c tooth spacing is not 1mm closer. When you start mixing brands, you never know what spacing you'll get for sure, but the norm is very close to 7.5mm.

[oliver1850]

I always advise folks who think the additional tread width to be a problem, to check out possible problems with foot alignment that might be cured with Lemond wedges and be sure to move the cleat as far out as possible to bring the shoe close to the crankarm. I see a lot of people with a good 10-15mm gap between their shoe and the crankarm.

I admit to being one of those people, maybe not 15mm. I don't like shoe marks on the crank arms.

[Ralph]

The frame for this is steel with a 28.6 ST, 68 MM BB shell. I've got two triple FD's, one Racing T for 8/9 and one Record for 10's. Other than cage width, they look identical.

When I install my 8/9 speed Racing T on the bike in the past, for trips to the mountains, with a 111 Centaur BB, the right side crank is out about 1/8 to 3/16" more than the left. I can work most of that out with cleat adjustment, pedal washers, etc. But don't like to move my cleats around because I also ride a double with those shoes. As mentioned, a PW 110.5 with some side to side adjustment would work well also.

Was hoping some of the newer Campy Triple cranks were more even stance, like the Chorus/Record with asymetrical 111 BB, or the newer Centaurs and Comp using 111 symetrical BB. Oliver has reported that his newer Centaur 10 is almost even both sides with 111.

[97CSI]

Was hoping some of the newer Campy Triple cranks were more even stance, like the Chorus/Record with asymetrical 111 BB, or the newer Centaurs and Comp using 111 symetrical BB. Oliver has reported that his newer Centaur 10 is almost even both sides with 111.Not sure what you are saying. My new RT is exactly 66mm out from the seat-tube on both sides using an equal 111 BB. That's about as even a stance as one can get.

[Dave]

Something is wrong if the "stance" is not equal on both sides. Chainline can also be critical - you can't just move the chainrings to some chainline out of the 45-47.5mm range and expect the FD to work properly.

[oliver1850]

The chainring spacing is really not what differs from 9/10/11 speed, as much as it is the shifting ramps. The Campy 11 chainring mounting tab is 1mm thinner that 9 speed, but the c-c tooth spacing is not 1mm closer. When you start mixing brands, you never know what spacing you'll get for sure, but the norm is very close to 7.5mm.

I found this interesting, so had to do some measuring. I had just assumed that the ring spacing was closer on 10 speed than 8/9. I checked 4 Campy triple cranks. I only checked between the middle and outer rings as my height guage didn't have enough reach to get to the inner. I measured to the point of the tooth.

Mirage 8/9 7.2mm
Veloce 9 7.6mm
Centaur 10 7.2mm
Race T 10 7.3mm

[oliver1850]

As I told Ralph earlier today, my Race T with AC-H bottom bracket is very nearly equal distance from each crank arm to the seat tube. Within 1/64" to my eye.

I don't know why his should be off if he for certain has the symmetrical BB.


Is this the type of BB you're using?

[Ralph]

Mine is an early 8 speed Racing T. I believe they have redesigned it some since then. That's my guess....and the reason for the original post. Because whether I used, years ago, the older 111 Centaur (now Veloce)
or the new Centaur 111, stance still offset to the right. With a double Centaur crank with 111, or Chorus double with 102 I sometimes use....stance even both sides. That's why I think the Campy triple cranks are not all the same thru the years.

BTW....I have used this old Campy triple crank on a frame with a 32 MM ST as well as a 28.6, and no problem getting old Racing T FD to work well. If you are having interference problems with one on a 32 MM seat tube bike, why not just get a FD with 35 MM clamp size and use a plastic shim? If it takes a clamp. Protect the paint.

[cnighbor1]

converting to triples is a pain
On my battaglin with your typical racing setup 53T / 39T 13T thry 27t Campagnolo Indexed chorus I added only a Centuar compact 50t /34T Every thing worked fine and I can climb what I did with my Dura Ace triple set up 53T / 39T /30T and 13T / 27t and I am 74 With shimano and compact crankset 50T / 34T road you can use shimano MTB RD and say 13T /32T Heck you climb anything with
To convert a triple you new FD BB RD and Right Shifter for FD what a pain and expense forget it
Than no chorus or Record RD, FD BB for sale on ebay
Yes a lt of the lesser lines like Racing T for sale but not top of the line Campagnolo
Why I use dura Ace triple set ups is they are still FS I used those before compact cranksets were was offered
Yes TA offered it way back

[oliver1850]

Perhaps there is a problem with one of your crank arms.

The Racing Triple used a symmetrical 111mm BB, just like the later cranks (except the Chorus/Record triples which used asymetrical).

If you could find the original Racing Triple BB, it had no lips on the cups, so you could adjust it side to side. I haven't seen one for sale, but there's probably one out there somewhere. While it might help the problem, it still doesn't explain what's going on with your current set-up.

[Ralph]

You make a good point. One I had forgotten about. The original Athena 111 BB that was sold with the Racing T 8 triple crank did not have a fixed cup on drive side. There was some side to side adjustment, like a PW. I bet the left crank arm on this old crankset is same as the double. I've had it since new, so no substitutes occured.

So back to original post. if I go to E Bay and buy a new Centaur 10 triple crank manufactured around 2004 or 5, and used it with the current Centaur 111 BB, or a new 2006 Record triple and use it with correct 111 asymetrical BB (easily attained), you guys seem to think I'll have close to even stance both side. I realize chainline not the same as stance.

By stance I mean a measurement from outside of crank arm where pedal attaches to center line of bike.

Thanks again guys.

[oliver1850]

My Race T is the only one I've ever actually mounted, but it's very nearly equal side to side, and I would think the same would apply to the others.

I hate to say that new parts will fix the problem you have, because from what I can tell, the parts you have now should give you equal stance too.

The original Racing Triple BB was symmetrical too, I can't imagine that your problem is the result of using a newer style BB.

Perhaps one arm is going onto the spindle farther than it should. Bolt the arms down tight, then remove the bolts and look at the taper. If one arm is on 1/8" farther than the other, you will be able to see it clearly with the bolts removed.
This is the only thing I can think of, unless the BB shell itself is the problem.

[Ralph]

This will be the first time I've actually used this triple on this bike. It's been on other steel 28.6 ST bike and 32 MM ST CAAD 5 C Dale with same stance measurements. Stance is perfect with doubles, so doubt if it's the BB shell.

I think I'll just mount it and measure it without pedals. Check how far in axle goes as you suggest. Snug up tight (but not too tight).

Thanks again.

[oldpotatoe]

You make a good point. One I had forgotten about. The original Athena 111 BB that was sold with the Racing T 8 triple crank did not have a fixed cup on drive side. There was some side to side adjustment, like a PW. I bet the left crank arm on this old crankset is same as the double. I've had it since new, so no substitutes occured.

So back to original post. if I go to E Bay and buy a new Centaur 10 triple crank manufactured around 2004 or 5, and used it with the current Centaur 111 BB, or a new 2006 Record triple and use it with correct 111 asymetrical BB (easily attained), you guys seem to think I'll have close to even stance both side. I realize chainline not the same as stance.

By stance I mean a measurement from outside of crank arm where pedal attaches to center line of bike.

Thanks again guys.

Yes, the crank arms will be the same distance right/left.

Late Racing T and all Centaur, etc triples saw new LH crank arms that did exactly what you are asking about, moved the LH arm out to match the right one.

[Ralph]

Yes, the crank arms will be the same distance right/left.

Late Racing T and all Centaur, etc triples saw new LH crank arms that did exactly what you are asking about, moved the LH arm out to match the right one.

Thanks....That's info I was looking for. That explains it.