Slightly OT Helmet wearing: Sledding, Biking and Play

[rugbysecondrow]

http://www.slate.com/id/2279817/pagenum/all/#p2

This is an interesting article, to me at least. It starts off discussion helmets for kids while sledding, then segways briefly into helmets in general as well as acceptance of risk. One of the biking related quotes are:

Besides, I think there's a danger in requiring children to wear a helmet sledding. It's clear that if parents are required to buy helmets for children—and have them handy and remember them—fewer children will end up whizzing down a hillside. That's happened with bicycles: In a recent paper (PDF) on helmet laws, a pair of economists found that the new regulations were effective at preventing injuries, but they were also effective at preventing bicycling. In the wake of mandatory bike helmet laws, fewer children rode bikes. Given all the concern that children these days are often inside and inactive, and the looming health risks of childhood obesity, it seems self-evident that there's a risk to not bicycling or sledding.

Will there be a decline in many activiites because parents have ingrained that they are dangerous or to be feared? Are we turning kids into wussies? While we lament the fact that are homebodies and indoors with electronics, are parents in fact fostering that activity by making the outside world seem dangerous?


It is an interesting discussion point, IMO, as I have a 4 year old and a 1 year old. I am not the type of parent who bubble wraps the kids, I think some hard knocks are good for them, but there seems to be a fine line there.
I would never use anything as ridiculous as this, http://www.amazon.com/Thudguard-Protective-Safety-Helmet-Blue/dp/B001OWCOTS/ref=sr_1_11?ie=UTF8&qid=1294243013&sr=8-11 , which is used as a helmet for kids to wear around the house when they are crawling and walking.

No, none of these are my kids.

[phcollard]

Will there be a decline in many activiites because parents have ingrained that they are dangerous or to be feared? Are we turning kids into wussies?

Yes and yes. It's a world of paranoia out there.

I'm in the 40's and while I don't have kids I know a lot of couples who have young children. And everytime I visit them I am amazed at their fear that the kid might hurt himself, whatever he is doing. Parents are always on the lookout for the surrounding danger. I would not be surprised if these kids when adult would not want to ride a bike because it's too dangerous...

When I was young - and that's not a long time ago... or at least that's what I like to think - I was living in Belgium. I was riding bikes all over the place without helmet, crashing during crazy mindless descents, going back to mum with knees covered with blood. A kiss and a few words later and I was back on my bike. She was never horrified that I might get a couple bruises. That was her way to let me learn a bit of life I guess.

That home helmet for kids is absolutely ridiculous.

Edit : about the same OT I was talking with Canadian friends the other night that in my time in Belgium the military service was still compulsory. While I am really not into that army thing I believe youngsters today could really benefit from 6 months as a simple soldier. Just for the experience and the humility you get from it.

[Lifelover]

I think there is a little truth to all of it.

I allow my teenage kids to cruise around on thier bikes and long boards without helmets. I fully understand the risk but I also know that as vain teenagers, they would not ride as much otherwise. If we are ever doing "serious" riding or were they going to try and long board down hills, I do require it. They fully understand and abide.

ATMO, it teaches risk management which is a real life skill we all practice every single day even though we don't realize it.

As far as video games go it is interesting. I'm a firm believer that video games are a large part of the demise of our youth in many ways. (what a run on) :crap:

However, as a parent, it is often comforting to know that my kids are safe, sound and having a blast upstairs on the Xbox. My 6' 2" 14 y/o is pron to accidents and has had a few broken bones. Every time he heads out to go long boarding I stare out the wondow waiting to see home come home safely. When he is upstairs on the Xbox, I know he is safe and sound.

Like everything in life it is about moderation. At 14 and 17 we give our boys free reign on the Xbox but when they were younger we had specific time limits. If we feel they are using it too much now, we set time limits.

In all things, help your kids think for themselves.

[Lifelover]

Yes and yes. It's a world of paranoia out there.

I'm in the 40's and while I don't have kids I know a lot of couples who have young children. And everytime I visit them I am amazed at their fear that the kid might hurt himself, whatever he is doing. Parents are always on the lookout for the surrounding danger. I would not be surprised if these kids when adult would not want to ride a bike because it's too dangerous...

When I was young - and that's not a long time ago... or at least that's what I like to think - I was living in Belgium. I was riding bikes all over the place without helmet, crashing during crazy mindless descents, going back to mum with knees covered with blood. A kiss and a few words later and I was back on my bike. She was never horrified that I might get a couple bruises. That was her way to let me learn a bit of life I guess.

That home helmet for kids is absolutely ridiculous.

Edit : about the same OT I was talking with Canadian friends the other night that in my time in Belgium the military service was still compulsory. While I am really not into that army thing I believe youngsters today could really benefit from 6 months as a simple soldier. Just for the experience and the humility you get from it.


I don't mean this disrespectfully or mean to imply that you should not have an opinion or reply in a thread like this, BUT,

You really, really, really, really can not understand the fear a parent has in regards to thier kids without having one. I have a couple of friends that have lost kids, and they would tell me that I can't understand the fear they feel.

My only point is that you should not judge them to harshly.

[phcollard]

I don't mean this disrespectfully or mean to imply that you should not have an opinion or reply in a thread like this, BUT,

You really, really, really, really can not understand the fear a parent has in regards to their kids without having one. I have a couple of friends that have lost kids, and they would tell me that I can't understand the fear they feel.

My only point is that you should not judge them to harshly.

I was not judging harshly. My apologies if I am hurting someone (English is not my native language if that's an excuse). It's true that as I don't have kids I can NEVER ever imagine the fears a caring parent might have. Again my apologies if I sound like a dick head. My point was simply that kids are more protected nowadays than say 30 years ago.

[Charles M]

I dont bubble wrap my kid either.

BUT... I do have a friend who lost his son (7) to a head injury that the doctors (also personal friends) said would have very likely survived had he worn head protection.



And nobody that doesnt have a child "KNOWS" how someone feels about their child. Harsh or not, it's complete bull???? to think the sypathy level is relative between parents and non...

[rugbysecondrow]

I dont bubble wrap my kid either.

BUT... I do have a friend who lost his son (7) to a head injury that the doctors (also personal friends) said would have very likely survived had he worn head protection.

And nobody that doesnt have a child "KNOWS" how someone feels about their child. Harsh or not, it's complete bull???? to think the sypathy level is relative between parents and non...


That is the tough part isn't it? I would feel horrible if something happened that could have been prevented, but I would feel horrible if I raise a kid who is fearful of taking chance and living life.

I have had friends give me a hard time for using a bike trailer and a bike seat with my kids. They think I am taking unnecesary risks. They are likely right that it is riskier then if we stayed at home, but is that the life we want? No easy answer.

[benb]

Is this just helicopter parenting to the next degree?

At some point we all have to learn the coordination and reflexes to keep our head from hitting the ground..

I wonder if kids who grow up wearing these will be more accident prone later in life.

[rwsaunders]

My wife slammed her head pretty good a few years ago while skiing and it took a while for her to get over the concussion. While visiting some friends last week, I took the kids tubing on some pretty good hills at a local ski slope and they wore their helmets, if only for that reason. The snow was also packed solid on the slopes...not even an impression from your boots as it was so damn cold.

Aren't boots and gloves safety devices in terms of preventing frostbite? Helmets always get a bad rap. You wouldn't think twice about wearing safety gear in an industrial environment or on a construction site. If the use of safety gear for recreational purpose has progressed over time, my theory is why not use it, especially for a kid. I also didn't notice the kids slowing down because they were wearing a helmet. My youngest son's quote was "We were really flying down the slopes...if Mom were here, she would have never let us do this."

[fiamme red]

I see kids in my neighborhood wearing helmets while roller skating, skateboarding (not tricks, just on a flat path around the park), and riding those Razor scooters with tiny wheels. I don't think that there's much of a risk of hitting one's head during these activities.

When I was a teenager, my parents didn't seem to mind that I used to go regularly on 25-mile rides (on roads, not bike paths) without a helmet. But those were unenlightened times. :rolleyes:

[snah]

As a parent of 4, youngest being less than a year, oldest almost 16, there's alot to be scared of when considering dangers our kids face. But, when I really think about it, I don't think my parents or my grandparents didn't fear for my or my parents safety when they were kids. I think that what's changed has been the awareness of safety measures available, many that were not available when I or my parents were kids. I hate to think I'm raising a bunch of wusses, but I guess if it keeps my kids from dieing of a head injury, one that could have been prevented, then I'll take the wussy. But, you won't catch my youngest with that home helmet, you will catch my kids wearing one when riding though. Guess it's like seat belts, mandatory now and for good reason, when I was a kid, I remember riding on the back shelf of my father's MG, top down, no belts.

Side note regarding video games and the military, not in it and haven't at any time, but had a client tell me that tank and remote devices are designed like the controls for Xbox, Playstation, etc. Kids are familiar with the design and it makes the learning process much easier.

[Charles M]

Guys I'm not offended by Anyones post or even mildly upset...

I think helmets are valuable in some conditions and I don't think people without kids really know how people with kids feel... That doesn't mean head protection opinion shouldnt still be a personal thing

[christian]

If you judge life by the evening news, American children are unlikely to die from head injuries, because they'll likely be abducted by a stranger.

My toddler wears a helmet (well, a mixing bowl) on his head when he's on his plastic push along motorbike, because he's seen daddy do it*, too. Other than that, I can't barely get him to wear a hat.... he has survived to date, but I am glad that he is growing up in a more temperate climate than I did - because I have wicked frostbite in one ear.

So, in short, I think it's possible to love your kids, want them to stay safe, and still not mandate helmets for every childhood activity. I guess my kids will wear helmets when playing hockey and football, and (though this tugs at me) skiing. Sledding? No way. Sledding is by its very nature supposed to be a child-directed activity. Parents role should be provide jr with wool socks, advise that trees are hard if hit, and to go in and make the hot chocolate.

(*For clarity, I don't wear a mixing bowl, but a full face Shoei X-11.)

PS: Every bike club in NYC won't let you ride on a group ride w/o a helmet these days. In 34 years, I've fallen off a bike twice....

[Karin Kirk]

Rwsaunders - I agree with your whole post and I agree that skiing with a helmet is an excellent idea. (I always do and so do 90% of my students).

But the helmet fit on your daughter looks to be way off. Just like with a bike helmet there should not be enough room for a big thick hat underneath the helmet. Like all safety gear, it's much safer if it fits.

That said, your kids are super cute and look very happy in that picture - looks like a great outing! :)

[93legendti]

Yes and yes. It's a world of paranoia out there.

I'm in the 40's and while I don't have kids I know a lot of couples who have young children. And everytime I visit them I am amazed at their fear that the kid might hurt himself, whatever he is doing...


I suspect you are not there to witness every incident when their kids get hurt.


...Parents are always on the lookout for the surrounding danger...
Yes! Part of the job description.[/QUOTE]

My fears arise from my concussions; splitting my head open after falling off my bike at the age of 8; and slamming my head into a tree while skiing and splitting my goggles in 2. My right femur absorbed 99% of the impact, or else I would not be here today.

My wife suffered a compound fracture as a result of jumping on her bed as a child and doesn't want our kids doing it. That's the way it is.

...I would not be surprised if these kids when adult would not want to ride a bike because it's too dangerous...

It didn't deter me.

...Edit : about the same OT I was talking with Canadian friends the other night that in my time in Belgium the military service was still compulsory. While I am really not into that army thing I believe youngsters today could really benefit from 6 months as a simple soldier. Just for the experience and the humility you get from it.

(I agree, actually 1-2 yrs would be great.) They wear helmets in the military. :)

Everyone is different. My kids are near fearless and will do things I don't want to do and didn't want to do when I was their age. But, they listen to my direction and take appropriate precautions. If my 5 year old would ride on a tandem with me in the middle of a pack on a fast club ride, I reckon her respect for danger does not paralyze her.

The legal decisions a parent makes are his/hers and should not give others pause. Our neighbors let their 4 and 5 year olds play in their front yards unsupervised. I do not. To each their own.

(During rush hour, we have people cutting thru our sub to cut off 2 miles of stop lights. The drivers are speeding -not to mention someone who wanted to take a child could do so in less than 5 seconds.)

[Sandy]

I think a great deal of the initial link is noise. The choice as to whether a kid wears a helmet should be made by the parents, not the Government and certainly not by the kids. One can assess the safety/risk of the sledding/cycling/whatever activity environment for the particular child, the particular activity for a specific time in which the child is involved in the activity, and one can assess the activity ability/application of risk management by that particular child and make a decision, but my child would never be allowed to ride a bike, ski, and probably sled, regardless of statistical considerations, as those sports have an inherent safety risk, and a helmet has one purpose- to protect an individual at the time of an accident. It often saves lives then.

Who among us have never had a cycling accident? I would think very very few. Given enough repetitions of skiing, cycling, and sledding, you will likely be in an accident of some kind. Helmets work.

One point however, is that children's helmets are often (probably most often for little kids) not attached properly and hence often would not even satisfy the purpose for which they are intended. I think the strap mechanism is sometimes inadequate as is the ability of the parent to place the helmet properly on the child's head.

So Simplistic Sandy thinks that for most all instances in cycling, skiing, and sledding a helmet makes wonderful sense for a kid (and the parents too).


Simplistic Sledding Skiing Spinning Serotta Sandy

[HenryA]

I wonder about this too. When I was a kid I was allowed to do almost anything unless it was sure to result in my immediate and instant death. And I survived.

It looks like its OK to let kids do plenty of things that are not good for them - playing all kinds of electronic games and watching TV constantly. Feels like its whatever fits the current version of "Billy's mom lets him..." or "all the kids do this now...." Not to mention the hyper regimented must do every team sport and activity and lessons in everything lifestyle.

If the kids do go outside the parents freak out and hover over them the whole time. Or parents make kids wear a silly hat in case they fall over while learning to walk in the house as the OP showed.

I have a young grandchild and I'd never want anything bad to happen to her. But I let her fall and learn from it - there's really no other way.

I do and have done lots of "helmet sports" and have some work related helmet time too. I used up one bike helmet that likely saved my bacon. But there's a line somewhere on this. If the activity is dangerous enough maybe you shouldn't do it at all!

That's about where I got with whitewater boaters and full cage facemasks on their helmets. All I could think was - if its that bad I ain't goin'! Then there's the guys riding mountain bikes with down-hill pads - if I thought I had to wear all that, I'd think twice before I rode my bike off a cliff. But there they are on local groomed trails thinkin' they're in a Mountain Dew commercial.

So I guess I come down on the side of "we're raising wussies".

<barefoot in the snow, uphill, both ways>

[FlashUNC]

Speaking as someone without kids (so take that FWIW), the truth is going to fall somewhere in the middle.
You're going to have over-protective parents who bubble wrap their kids, just as you're going to have parents who will let their kids do more or less anything.

It all comes down, as a couple folks have mentioned, to someone's tolerance risk and what they consider safe and unsafe behavior.

Its tough because there's no easy, carte blanche answer for a given situation. That being said, you can't be so fearful of something happening that nothing ever happens.

[Dekonick]

A larger question looms...

Are mandatory laws good or bad? They aren't enforced... I see kids all the time w/o helmets... and I see plenty who do wear 'em.

My kids love to ride their bikes... and they also won't get on without a helmet becausethey see me ride with mine - and I point it out to them. "Look - daddy is wearing his helmet!..." Amazing what modeling does for the kids. You just have to make it a visible part of every day life and they will take it to heart. It really is not about the chances of suffering a head injury. The risks are fairly low. What matters is the CONSEQUENCE of suffering a head injury. If anyone wants to know I can arrange a personal tour of Deaton rehab facility in Baltimore... Aside from losing your loved one to a life in a vegetative state, there is a HUGE financial burden. I consider it foolish and irresponsible to not wear protective gear for many reasons but the one that should matter to YOU is how selfish the act is. It is true that we have freedoms and rights but at the same time we all should take a little responsibility for our actions remember the message we are sending.

I also am sometimes appreciative when someone doesn't wear head gear and ends up brain dead... as long as they are organ donors.

:)

Rugby - I agree that common sense is missing in today's society. I won't wrap my kids in bubble wrap either but will have them use proper gear for whatever sport or activity they are involved with. Don't forget that once it becomes habit it almost is uncomfortable to not have that gear. I have on occasion not used a helmet (because my dumb arse left it at home...) but I do feel almost naked without one. Same for seat belts.

[93legendti]

...My kids love to ride their bikes... and they also won't get on without a helmet because they see me ride with mine - and I point it out to them. "Look - daddy is wearing his helmet!..."

... Amazing what modeling does for the kids. You just have to make it a visible part of every day life and they will take it to heart...

Don't forget that once it becomes habit it almost is uncomfortable to not have that gear. I have on occasion not used a helmet (because my dumb arse left it at home...) but I do feel almost naked without one. Same for seat belts.

So true.
I have never said even ONE word about my kids having to wear helmets. When I say "let's go riding!", the first thing they ask is "where are our helmets?"

[92degrees]

When I was a kid I can't remember anyone wearing helmets when riding. I never had one.

My first car didn't have seatbelts. I didn't own a car with seatbelts until I was in my mid-20s and as a result tend to forget to strap in (although it's the law here).

I always make my son wear a helmet riding and wear a seatbelt in the car. I believe both work to prevent injury, neither inhibit basic happiness, and if he were ever injured and I had knowingly let him get away without taking those precautions then I'd feel responsible/negligent.

[rugbysecondrow]

So true.
I have never said even ONE word about my kids having to wear helmets. When I say "let's go riding!", the first thing they ask is "where are our helmets?"


My kids wear a helmet when we ride. I let my daughter tool around the driveway/patio on her tricycle without a helmet. Now that she has a big girl bike, she wears a helmet. She could fall, but that could happen on the swings and the monkey bars and I don't make her wear one there. I think there is a level of reasonableness to apply. I have my own levels and I know them pretty well. I am not afraid to let them get hurt, I will let my daughter and son try risky things knowing they might fall or get hurt. I can stomach this better then their mother, it builds charector.

Tangental to this are parents who put their kids in life jackets at the pool. Life jackets are important in many activities (water skiing, windsurfing, maybe sailing) but philisophically, I think that my kid should not be swimming in an area that is beyond her skill. Fear of sinking, and knowing she will sink is a healthy bit of info for her and I do not want her to have a false understanding of her skills. I even let her sink once (for a second or two) just so she developed a healthy respect for the water.

As an example. My nephew is one year older than my daughter (she is 4). He will not go into the pool with out a floaty. While on vacation this summer, the resort we were staying at had a water slide. The water was too deep where the kids were dumped out and I told my daughter she could do the slide if she could swim from the middle of the pool to the wall. The first night I dropped her in the water and told her to swim...she couldn't do it. For the next two days all she did was practice. Then we did the same exercise and she could do it. She was very proud. My nephew's father did the opposite. He caught him as he went down the slide, carried him to the wall. He never learned to swim, never had the sense of pride and was actually upset that his cousin could swim but he couldn't. It seems to be a disservice to the kids to rob them of the opportunity to develop skils,confidence and respect, but I think parents do it often out of fear. Falling is natural. Sinking is natural. Doing both of these help teach limits. Helmets are good when appropriate just like life jackets are good when appropriate, but not every situation is appropriate IMO.

Maybe I am too hard, but my Dad wouldn't let me take out the 3 man sail boat as a kid until I could prove I could raise it once capsized. He downed it in the middle of the lake, swam away and made me do it. He was there if I needed his help, but I was not allowed to be on my own until I could prove I could handle it. A good lesson IMO.

[vqdriver]

the helmets only address would-be head injury and i don't know how that in any way wussifies a society. no one's talking about mandating elbow and knee pads to eliminate scrapes and bruises. we're only talking about the brain.
you protect your own, why in the world wouldn't you protect your child's???











but yeah, the household helmet's a bit much.....

[rugbysecondrow]

I guess that is the issue, where is the line? Biking yes. Skiing, maybe. Sledding? Household play? Rollorblading? Pull a kid in the wagon? When does a regular activity become something that requires a helmet or safety equipment?

[konstantkarma]

I have 2 boys, one 4 and one 7 years old. My wife and I discuss this issue all the time because we have fairly steep asphalt driveway, and both boys love to fly down it on their razor scooters, bikes and other 4 wheel contraptions. Also, my 7 YO is is partially, but profoundly deaf and the docs informed us that a concussion could worsen his deafness. This is a no brainer (no pun intended), right? Wear those helmets!

The boys are very compliant with the helmet rule, but wouldn't you know it, my 7 YO son sustained a grade 2 concussion last summer when he rolled off of the back of the sofa onto my 4 YO's rock of a head.

Vomiting, disorientation, 2 day hospital stay, CT scan, MRI etc. 2 days after the injury he became totally deaf, and remained so for the next 3 weeks. He slowly regained some hearing, but 7 months later his hearing has not returned to the pre-concussion level. He has since received a cochlear implant in his previously non-functional ear and is doing well, but we second guessed ourselves for weeks because of this.

I guess my point is that all of our concern regarding head injuries centered around the rough and tumble outdoor activities, and it was a relatively minor indoor collision that became a major potentially life-altering problem. We can't protect them all of the time, but we can think about the most likely situations in which head injuries can occur, and try our best to cover those.

[jasond]

I thought helmets were becoming fashionable? I've been putting off buying one for when I'm snowboarding. I almost feel like I'm the odd one when I'm on the slopes.

I was actually making a joke about the indoor helmet for your child yesterday when someone told me they indeed sold them at stores. I thought that was slightly rediculous.

I have a feeling that it's not entirely the parents faults. There is a major amount of money to be made by marketing these baby proofing/protective products. I'd be a little more inclined to blaim Babies R' Us and companies that make products for them to sell. They are just playing on the heart strings of new parents.

[snah]

I guess that is the issue, where is the line? Biking yes. Skiing, maybe. Sledding? Household play? Rollorblading? Pull a kid in the wagon? When does a regular activity become something that requires a helmet or safety equipment?

Guess the easy answer to this question is that it's decided by you for your kids, me for mine and all the other parents for their own. Yours may seem wrong to some, mine may seem wrong to some, others might seem wrong to us. After all kids are a by-product of their parents and as long as we, the parents, feel we've raised our kids they way we wanted and taught them what we felt they needed to learn, then it was all a success, kinda like your daughter learning to swim in that pool so she could use the slide, success. :beer:

[93legendti]

My kids wear a helmet when we ride. I let my daughter tool around the driveway/patio on her tricycle without a helmet. Now that she has a big girl bike, she wears a helmet. She could fall, but that could happen on the swings and the monkey bars and I don't make her wear one there. I think there is a level of reasonableness to apply. I have my own levels and I know them pretty well. I am not afraid to let them get hurt, I will let my daughter and son try risky things knowing they might fall or get hurt. I can stomach this better then their mother, it builds charector.

Tangental to this are parents who put their kids in life jackets at the pool. Life jackets are important in many activities (water skiing, windsurfing, maybe sailing) but philisophically, I think that my kid should not be swimming in an area that is beyond her skill. Fear of sinking, and knowing she will sink is a healthy bit of info for her and I do not want her to have a false understanding of her skills. I even let her sink once (for a second or two) just so she developed a healthy respect for the water.

As an example. My nephew is one year older than my daughter (she is 4). He will not go into the pool with out a floaty. While on vacation this summer, the resort we were staying at had a water slide. The water was too deep where the kids were dumped out and I told my daughter she could do the slide if she could swim from the middle of the pool to the wall. The first night I dropped her in the water and told her to swim...she couldn't do it. For the next two days all she did was practice. Then we did the same exercise and she could do it. She was very proud. My nephew's father did the opposite. He caught him as he went down the slide, carried him to the wall. He never learned to swim, never had the sense of pride and was actually upset that his cousin could swim but he couldn't. It seems to be a disservice to the kids to rob them of the opportunity to develop skils,confidence and respect, but I think parents do it often out of fear. Falling is natural. Sinking is natural. Doing both of these help teach limits. Helmets are good when appropriate just like life jackets are good when appropriate, but not every situation is appropriate IMO.

Maybe I am too hard, but my Dad wouldn't let me take out the 3 man sail boat as a kid until I could prove I could raise it once capsized. He downed it in the middle of the lake, swam away and made me do it. He was there if I needed his help, but I was not allowed to be on my own until I could prove I could handle it. A good lesson IMO.
Funny you mention the pool. We live off a small lake and it is shallow for the first ~100 yards. So my kids never wear jackets when they went in the water. If they can stand, I'm ok. On our boat, everyone wears life jackets-even me. Well, they are required by law, so I guess that doesn't count.

[93legendti]

I have 2 boys, one 4 and one 7 years old. My wife and I discuss this issue all the time because we have fairly steep asphalt driveway, and both boys love to fly down it on their razor scooters, bikes and other 4 wheel contraptions. Also, my 7 YO is is partially, but profoundly deaf and the docs informed us that a concussion could worsen his deafness. This is a no brainer (no pun intended), right? Wear those helmets!

The boys are very compliant with the helmet rule, but wouldn't you know it, my 7 YO son sustained a grade 2 concussion last summer when he rolled off of the back of the sofa onto my 4 YO's rock of a head.

Vomiting, disorientation, 2 day hospital stay, CT scan, MRI etc. 2 days after the injury he became totally deaf, and remained so for the next 3 weeks. He slowly regained some hearing, but 7 months later his hearing has not returned to the pre-concussion level. He has since received a cochlear implant in his previously non-functional ear and is doing well, but we second guessed ourselves for weeks because of this..

I'm sorry to hear about your child's injury. I hope he continues to progress.

I guess my point is that all of our concern regarding head injuries centered around the rough and tumble outdoor activities, and it was a relatively minor indoor collision that became a major potentially life-altering problem. We can't protect them all of the time, but we can think about the most likely situations in which head injuries can occur, and try our best to cover those.

Right, just because we can't protect against everything doesn't mean we shouldn't protect against some things.

[buck-50]

It's tough.

On the one hand, I survived playing with knives and hatchets, jumping out of my treehouse, riding without a helmet until I got out of college, etc.

On the other hand, should my good luck guide what I teach my daughter?

Pretty sure my footy pajamas were dangerously flammable when I was a kid. I never burnt, but I'm glad they're fire retardant now. Never wore a seatbelt or hat a car seat when I was a kid, either...


Sure, I survived. All of here survived childhood. But that doesn't mean that since we survived, there's no need for improvement.

[rugbysecondrow]

Guess the easy answer to this question is that it's decided by you for your kids, me for mine and all the other parents for their own. Yours may seem wrong to some, mine may seem wrong to some, others might seem wrong to us. After all kids are a by-product of their parents and as long as we, the parents, feel we've raised our kids they way we wanted and taught them what we felt they needed to learn, then it was all a success, kinda like your daughter learning to swim in that pool so she could use the slide, success. :beer:

I agree with you. This is why legistlating behavior is a tough pill to swallow.

[konstantkarma]

I'm sorry to hear about your child's injury. I hope he continues to progress.



Right, just because we can't protect against everything doesn't mean we shouldn't protect against some things.

Thanks 93legendti.

On a more humorous note, I was out doing yard work a few weeks ago and saw my 4 YO walking towards the wood pile with my freshly sharpened hatchet raised above his head. What did I do? I showed him how to use it as safely as possible, let him chop some sticks, and explained that he should always ask me to help him because it is dangerous. He seems to get that.

[Dekonick]

It's tough.

On the one hand, I survived playing with knives and hatchets, jumping out of my treehouse, riding without a helmet until I got out of college, etc.

On the other hand, should my good luck guide what I teach my daughter?

Pretty sure my footy pajamas were dangerously flammable when I was a kid. I never burnt, but I'm glad they're fire retardant now. Never wore a seatbelt or hat a car seat when I was a kid, either...


Sure, I survived. All of here survived childhood. But that doesn't mean that since we survived, there's no need for improvement.

+100

Simple solutions to solve horrendous outcomes. Smoke detectors, carbon monoxide detectors, seat belts, air bags, crash tests, flame retardant clothing and furniture, helmets, the list goes on. None of these items cost much when you compare it to even one negative outcome. Sure - lots of us survived just fine... but all you need to do is go meet ONE kid that didn't have a flame retardant PJ that caught on fire... or ONE kid that went from an IQ of 120 to 80... from a head injury... or ONE kid that is missing fingers from playing with a cut off saw without a safety sheath (yeah... they are a pain in the arse...)

MOST of us came out ok - but many didn't. I plan on being a good parent and will continue to preach safety AND common sense as well as model the same behavior.

Just got back from the gym... no one was wearing helmets on the exercise bikes! :D At least there still is SOME common sense left!

[benb]

Rugby's post relating this to swimming is excellent.. I was going to mention swimming before but decided not to. We do not have kids, we are working on it, but not yet, so I resisted.

I used to work as a lifeguard and Red Cross swim instructor.. swimming is such a great example. Flotation devices are never a substitute for knowing how to swim. Teaching a kid to swim safely back from a slide before letting them use it is definitely the right thing to do.

Ironically I've seen several rescues where "water wings" and some of the other non Coast Guard approved flotation devices got children and/or adults in more trouble then they would have been in if they had no flotation devices at all. They weren't around when I was working but these days I see lots of non-swimmers out of their skill level holding onto the "noodles" they sell now.. those creep me out.

Helmets seem a lot harder to misuse but overusing them might bug me for the same reason.. if we just wear them all the time we might get caught up in the illusion that life is safer then it actually is. Wear it when you need it but people need to understand it doesn't provide perfect protection.

There are a lot of water related situations that bug the hell out of me as a former instructor and I have to work to keep my mouth shut. The great majority of adults I know, even boat owners I know, are "non-swimmers" and would be way too embarrassed to go get some training even though it would make them so much safer. And then they go "teach" their kids how to swim themselves which perpetuates the cycle. I taught a few adults in private lessons but there are so few people willing to admit they can't swim that I'd imagine it's not even that easy to find adult lessons in a lot of places.

This is also an area where the whole "you don't have kids so you can't know" thing comes into play. I ran into numerous situations where a child was asked to repeat a swim lesson program. Mom would go on the attack and tell us she knew more about swimming then we did, we couldn't possibly know how well her child could swim because we were not parents! So the child would get retested by every instructor in the program and we'd invariably all back up whoever wanted the child to repeat. Unfortunately I also remember a few situations where kids still somehow got into the advanced programs when they shouldn't have, and the first day of lessons ended up generating rescue situations!

BTW if you have kids who might be looking for a job in a few years lifeguarding & swim instruction pay extremely well for jobs you can get before you even have a HS diploma.

[Dekonick]

BTW if you have kids who might be looking for a job in a few years lifeguarding & swim instruction pay extremely well for jobs you can get before you even have a HS diploma.[/QUOTE]

My wife taught swimming and lifeguarded from high school until she had completed her masters - and still dabbles from time to time...

Excellent pay for a college kid! Teaches responsibility too!

[akelman]

I see kids in my neighborhood wearing helmets while...riding those Razor scooters with tiny wheels. I don't think that there's much of a risk of hitting one's head during these activities.

Let me first say that I think parents should make their own decisions about how to bring up their kids. Which is to say, what follows isn't prescriptive so much descriptive. That said, our 3-year-old boy rides a scooter all over the place. He's quite good on it and has a total blast. Anyway, about a month ago, he fell and smacked his head. At first we thought he was fine. He wears a helmet and the lid seemed to have absorbed all of the impact. But then he began vomiting and got very sleepy. So we brought him in to the ER and learned that he had a concussion (which, it turns out, is a pretty ill-defined ailment). Long story short, the doc told us that: a) little brains are very vulnerable to trauma; and b) the helmet probably kept him from being severely hurt.

[buck-50]

Sure, PFDs are no substitute for knowing how to swim.

That said, you wouldn't catch me in a whitewater kayak without one. You'd be hard-pressed to find me in a sea kayak on flat water without a PFD, and I'm a former instructor- I know what I'm doing on the water.

PFDs, Helmets, they're for protecting you against the stuff you can't train against.

Doesn't matter how good I get at biking, I can't train myself to smack my head on the ground without getting a concussion.

[fiamme red]

Let me first say that I think parents should make their own decisions about how to bring up their kids. Which is to say, what follows isn't prescriptive so much descriptive. That said, our 3-year-old boy rides a scooter all over the place. He's quite good on it and has a total blast. Anyway, about a month ago, he fell and smacked his head. At first we thought he was fine. He wears a helmet and the lid seemed to have absorbed all of the impact. But then he began vomiting and got very sleepy. So we brought him in to the ER and learned that he had a concussion (which, it turns out, is a pretty ill-defined ailment). Long story short, the doc told us that: a) little brains are very vulnerable to trauma; and b) the helmet probably kept him from being severely hurt.Sorry to hear about that incident.

But how fast can a 3-year-old boy go on a scooter? Probably not faster than he can run. Should children should be forbidden to run without a helmet, in case they trip and hit their head?

[akelman]

But how fast can a 3-year-old boy go on a scooter? Probably not faster than he can run. Should children should be forbidden to run without a helmet, in case they trip and hit their head?

Actually, he can go faster on his scooter than I can run. But as I said earlier, I'm not interested in pretending to know what children should and shouldn't be allowed to do. That's up to their parents, and, I suppose, the state to decide. My point was that kids, even little ones who are really low to the ground, can ding their heads pretty hard when they fall off their scooters. We're lucky our kid was wearing his helmet when that happened to him. Beyond that, I have no point: people should use their own judgment.