these wheels art cool

[e-RICHIE]

http://www.prorider.org/smithsonian.htm

[davep]

From the above link:

"The exhibition also marks the introduction of the ADA 120-gram cassette that is milled from a single piece of titanium and includes a 10-tooth cog."

Is this a first for a 10-tooth cog?

[TimD]

Gee, another person who defied the jerk's assumption that no one was smart enough to type "Cees wheels" into a search engine :)

TimD

[saab2000]

You are not alone. I also checked out the *** wheels on the 'net once. I am not even close to being able to afford them.

But the jerk said a couple things which make sense.

Nr.1 - People seem to have no qualms about installing cheap, crappy wheels on $6,000 bikes. But some of these same people have a big problem installng $5,000 wheels on a mediocre bike. Which will have a bigger impact on one's riding? Prolly the wheels. I think he is right.

Nr.2. - Mr. Jerk predicted I would like my Nucleons. I was skeptical of the factory wheels, just like I was of "click shifting" in the '80s and clipless pedals in the '90s. So far he has been right. I dig my Nucleons.

The jerk may be full o' crap sometimes, but sometimes he is not.

[eddief]

that seems like a real feat of cnc machining. How'd they do that?

[ada@prorider.or]

well i am not here too promoto any of my products
its some else site here and we must respect that

well to make such cassette needs thinking
as you probely know i am a cnc programmer too
so i know a little about making complicted stuff
cees

[saab2000]

It is 0500 in Europe. This is a real cyclist if he is checking Serotta.com at 0500..... :beer:

[jerk]

cees is a genius. beyond being an engineer, an inventor and an ultra-distance athlete he is first and foremost a bike mechanic. and a treue bike mechanic is something special indeed.
jerk

[ada@prorider.or]

It is 0500 in Europe. This is a real cyclist if he is checking Serotta.com at 0500..... :beer:


well i just could not sleep
and thinking about constructions
sleept for 4 hours
well if there a new things you want to solve them
and keeps your busy

[jerk]

You are not alone. I also checked out the *** wheels on the 'net once. I am not even close to being able to afford them.

But the jerk said a couple things which make sense.

Nr.1 - People seem to have no qualms about installing cheap, crappy wheels on $6,000 bikes. But some of these same people have a big problem installng $5,000 wheels on a mediocre bike. Which will have a bigger impact on one's riding? Prolly the wheels. I think he is right.

Nr.2. - Mr. Jerk predicted I would like my Nucleons. I was skeptical of the factory wheels, just like I was of "click shifting" in the '80s and clipless pedals in the '90s. So far he has been right. I dig my Nucleons.

The jerk may be full o' crap sometimes, but sometimes he is not.


hey, when has the jerk been full of crap saab? ok, he did say vdb would win a race this year.....enough said.

[saab2000]

VDB finished the first 2 stages of the Quattre Jours de Dunquirque. Better than I coulda done. He is clearly ultra talented and could still win a big race this year. I have been following his career since '94. I hope he pulls of a big one again if for nothing more than to prove the naysayers wrong.

I dunno much either..... But I did predict that Boonen would crush all in the future. The future was in April and he did it. I hope VDB makes it back and doesn't do a Pantani.

[jerk]

he won't. because he's the jerk's friend and the jerk would kill him if he did. frank will be fine. he has a good sense of humour adn more talent in his little finger than most champions have in their entire body. things work out for the good guys and he's a good guy. the jerk promises.
jerk

[saab2000]

Mr. Jerk,

I don't know VDB. But I do know someone you probly know. Or at least know of. He got in pretty big trouble in that big scandal in Belgium involving Museeuw.

My point is that he is also a good guy. I can see beyond the glossy mag pictures and see that none of these guys are bad guys. Too often they are villified by the media and the "blogs" and chat forums and their real personalities are ignored. I am sure the VDB is as normal as anyone here, except that he can ride a bike faster than us.

I know a couple of those from Switzerland too. They are also good guys, and "names" here, but villified as "villains" of the sport. I know what you are talking about.

[jerk]

i know you know. i tried and failed and didn't have to go back to the schaerbeek mattress factory when my stupid carcass finally washed up....and believe you the jerk by may '95 the jerk was stupid fast.....now the jerk's lucky if he an hold the wheel of a fast guy when the fast guy's not even trying......
jerk

[ada@prorider.or]

Mr. Jerk,

I don't know VDB. But I do know someone you probly know. Or at least know of. He got in pretty big trouble in that big scandal in Belgium involving Museeuw.

My point is that he is also a good guy. I can see beyond the glossy mag pictures and see that none of these guys are bad guys. Too often they are villified by the media and the "blogs" and chat forums and their real personalities are ignored. I am sure the VDB is as normal as anyone here, except that he can ride a bike faster than us.

I know a couple of those from Switzerland too. They are also good guys, and "names" here, but villified as "villains" of the sport. I know what you are talking about.


you know about cyclist that are very known
they are just normal people
they goo to the same toilet as we do use the same paper
even the king of our country ( i know they opened our shop with opening station)
and they talk like every normal human
execpt they live in a glass house
and earn in one year what we do in our whole live
despite that they are as one else

[saab2000]

I once rode along side Rudy Dhaenens when he was World Champ and had Eddy Planckaert yell at me once. Pretty cool stuff. After I was done cycling I went to flight school to avoid the carpet or mattress factory fate. But my heart is not in the plane. It is really on the bike or in a bike shop. I can still hold the wheel of semi-fast riders as long as the gradient is less than .0000001% up. But no more than that. If I lost 35 lbs maybe we can talk again......

I waste my time at bike forums, not at airplane forums. This is still my passion.

BTW, Mr. Jerk, I think I now might know why you said that Ti bikes might not be real race bikes. My Merkcx Majestic is awesome, but it seems to be slower uphill than my heavier steel bikes. Don't want to sound dumb, but that is how I sense it. My 531 lugged steel feels livelier uphill than the Ti...... Perhaps I really do need a C-50 or a Merckx Premium aluminum.....

[saab2000]

Yes, I know a few pretty big riders. Indeed, they do live in a "glass house" and everyone has something to say about them. This is too bad, because they are nothing special, except that they ride faster. But sit down with them and get to know them and they are not bad guys.

I met Eddy Merckx once. Guess what? He is a normal guy. But he also won all the races many times and he is a successful businessman today. But he is also a normal guy who would drink a beer with anyone here.

Same thing with Greg Lemond and with LA. Yup, even Lance. That is what makes cycling cool.

There is only 1 cyclist who I really dropped my jaw for, and unfortunately he is now dead...... victim of his success.

[ada@prorider.or]

Yes, I know a few pretty big riders. Indeed, they do live in a "glass house" and everyone has something to say about them. This is too bad, because they are nothing special, except that they ride faster. But sit down with them and get to know them and they are not bad guys.

I met Eddy Merckx once. Guess what? He is a normal guy. But he also won all the races many times and he is a successful businessman today. But he is also a normal guy who would drink a beer with anyone here.

Same thing with Greg Lemond and with LA. Yup, even Lance. That is what makes cycling cool.

There is only 1 cyclist who I really dropped my jaw for, and unfortunately he is now dead...... victim of his success.

well i knew him personally and he was really a great great great guy

[mad_mark]

From the above link:

"The exhibition also marks the introduction of the ADA 120-gram cassette that is milled from a single piece of titanium and includes a 10-tooth cog."

Is this a first for a 10-tooth cog?

TNT made 10t cogs in the early 90's.

There are lighter cassettes around than 120gm...

Mark.

[Climb01742]

BTW, Mr. Jerk, I think I now might know why you said that Ti bikes might not be real race bikes. My Merkcx Majestic is awesome, but it seems to be slower uphill than my heavier steel bikes. Don't want to sound dumb, but that is how I sense it. My 531 lugged steel feels livelier uphill than the Ti...... Perhaps I really do need a C-50 or a Merckx Premium aluminum.....

saab, not trying to start a :argue: but a few mountain top stages of the tour have been won on ti frames, and one or two polka dot jerseys, if i'm not mistaken (which wouldn't be a surprise.) i think you're majestic is a litespeed, and it's true not all litespeeds climb (a few i've test ridden, including a merckx litespeed, were slow going up) but a few -- a ghisallo i owned and a vortex i test rode -- were rockets. like all materials, ti can be made to do lots of things. my IF ti CJ goes up really well. and most anything -- ti, carbon, alu -- climbs better than steel. steel does many wonderful things, but pure climbing sadly isn't one of them, IMO. ;)

[William]

I want that 10 tooth cog. Where's my chain whip......



William ;)

[ada@prorider.or]

TNT made 10t cogs in the early 90's.

There are lighter cassettes around than 120gm...

Mark.


out of titan?

who??

[weisan]

good guys, bad guys...what you guys talkin' abut?
Now go to bed...like normal people do. 9 pm is the cutoff. :cool:

[BumbleBeeDave]

<<ok, he did say vdb would win a race this year.....enough said.>>

I firmly believe that VDB has problems--like depression--that have nothing to do with his riding talent, which is obviously considerable. If he were in any other line of work and had depression problems, then nobody would ever hear about it. He would get fired and spiral down, or his company would have insurance and he would get some help. But like Cees says, he lives in a glass house just because he’s a “celebrity.” Anyone who can win the races that he has--no matter how far in te past--has some major talent.

He is undeniably somewhat of a tragic figure in cycling these days, but I also hope he comes back successfully and hope for the best for him in general.

BBDave

[saab2000]

Mr. Climb01742,

I know that Ti bikes have won races. I am not anywhere near racing form, so it is hard to know what to think of my Merckx.

The fact is that it fits nicely and handles beautifully. These are probably the most important traits of any bicycle.

But something seems a bit odd about it, especially while climbing. Keep in mind that this is my first ever non-steel bike and has my first ever non-steel fork on it. I have also started a thread about that entitled "Carbon Fork Stiffness" as the fork seems to have some stiffness issues.

Like I said, the bike is a new material for me and so I may have the issues much more than the bike. After all, racers much better than I am have won some big races on Ti bikes.

I am not dissing my Merckx, but it feels less lively going uphill than my steel bikes. Just my point of view.

[BumbleBeeDave]

<< . . . and had Eddy Planckaert yell at me once.>>

Sandy yells at me all the time. "Ged OUDDA my way!!" . . . Does that count? :rolleyes:

BBDave

[Kevan]

Last I saw, Sandy has your whip and he ain't using it on his wheel.

I didn't bother stickin' around long enough to find out his purpose.

[cpg]

Welcome to the list Mr. Cees Beers. I had the pleasure of meeting you in 2000. You are a true asset to the bike industry.

Curt

[ada@prorider.or]

Welcome to the list Mr. Cees Beers. I had the pleasure of meeting you in 2000. You are a true asset to the bike industry.

Curt

thanks for the kind words
just say cees
mr does me feel already old wich i already am
but cees will keep meyoung at tought
well we all will see where the industry will go
hopefully not all production to asia
it must be people who still have there hart to things they make not only the money altough thats getting more and more importanat these days
what is nicer to ride a bike with people to see together the paris roubaix and other world s cups and tour's
and not only look how the sale's go
do not get me wrong thats important too
but take a example as eddy he also love 's riding with evry one champion or the butcher from the corner
greg is the same too they are the example's of the industry

[fiamme red]

saab, not trying to start a :argue: but a few mountain top stages of the tour have been won on ti frames, and one or two polka dot jerseys, if i'm not mistaken (which wouldn't be a surprise.) i think you're majestic is a litespeed, and it's true not all litespeeds climb (a few i've test ridden, including a merckx litespeed, were slow going up) but a few -- a ghisallo i owned and a vortex i test rode -- were rockets. like all materials, ti can be made to do lots of things. my IF ti CJ goes up really well. and most anything -- ti, carbon, alu -- climbs better than steel. steel does many wonderful things, but pure climbing sadly isn't one of them, IMO. ;)

Climb01742, are you a pure climber? :rolleyes:

[fiamme red]

saab, not trying to start a :argue: but a few mountain top stages of the tour have been won on ti frames, and one or two polka dot jerseys, if i'm not mistaken (which wouldn't be a surprise.) i think you're majestic is a litespeed, and it's true not all litespeeds climb (a few i've test ridden, including a merckx litespeed, were slow going up) but a few -- a ghisallo i owned and a vortex i test rode -- were rockets. like all materials, ti can be made to do lots of things. my IF ti CJ goes up really well. and most anything -- ti, carbon, alu -- climbs better than steel. steel does many wonderful things, but pure climbing sadly isn't one of them, IMO. ;)
Climb01742, are you a pure climber? :rolleyes:

I've ridden aluminum frames (never titanium or carbon), and the bike on which I most enjoyed climbing was steel. My speed on certain long climbs would probably be the same whether I was riding aluminum or steel.

[ergott]

Wow. From one wheel builder (assembler) to another welcome! I've been drooling over the stuff on you site for years now. You really do some great work

Eric

[BumbleBeeDave]

<<mr does me feel already old wich i already am >>

I'm 46 and I still take a quick look behind me to see who they are talking to when they say "Mister!" :rolleyes:

BBDave

[ada@prorider.or]

Wow. From one wheel builder (assembler) to another welcome! I've been drooling over the stuff on you site for years now. You really do some great work

Eric


well thanks just doing my work which are love
thats all
eric

[chrisroph]

Saab, you and I have communicated extensively regarding the majextic so you know what I think of them. I am surprised that you feel the bike climbs strangely. Are you referring to both seated and standing climbing? You go about 180 lbs, don't you? Certainly, a majestic with an HSC3 fork has nowhere near the rigidity of a steel frame/fork combination. However, I for one like a bit of flex in a climbing machine and find my majestic a beautiful climber. You might want to try a new set of bars but it's certainly possible that you prefer a very rigid machine, and would be happier with carbon or aluminum in a non-ferrous machine. Nevertheless, any new non-ferrous machine will wear a carbon rork, and an HSC3 is certainly not the flimsiest carbon fork available (nor is it the stiffest).

[saab2000]

Christoph,

Yeah, I know. We have talked a lot about this bike. Yours and mine are quite similarly set up.

Don't get me wrong. I like the bike. But it feels a bit dead climbing, which surprised the heck out of me, because I had expected something livelier. On the flats it is is fine, and like I said it handles quite well.

When climbing standing up I feel like I am flexing the bars. I have since checked something out - standing in front of the bike I place the front wheel between my knees and turn the bars. The fork is very definitely twisting. The front wheel will become skewed. I am simply not used to this. The bars are not the stiffest, but they never seemed odd when the exact same bars where clamped to a bike with a steel fork. Now they do. I don't think it is the bars.

I know that the whole cycling world rides carbon forks, so I am not trying to say that they are bad. But my initial experience here has not been what I expected.

I will have to do some more test rides. :beer: I am going for about 50 on it this afternoon.

[Climb01742]

Climb01742, are you a pure climber? :rolleyes:

I've ridden aluminum frames (never titanium or carbon), and the bike on which I most enjoyed climbing was steel. My speed on certain long climbs would probably be the same whether I was riding aluminum or steel.

i'd call myself an "impure" climber. :rolleyes:

seriously, tho, this is of course a highly personal opinion. and greatly dependent on climbing style and the frame in question. but for me, climbing is one area that ti, carbon, a mix or alu shine.

even someone like dario, who works magic with steel, when he builds a climbing frame, he chooses alu.

but as always, your results may vary. :beer:

[Big Dan]

i'd call myself an "impure" climber. :rolleyes:

seriously, tho, this is of course a highly personal opinion. and greatly dependent on climbing style and the frame in question. but for me, climbing is one area that ti, carbon, a mix or alu shine.

even someone like dario, who works magic with steel, when he builds a climbing frame, he chooses alu.

but as always, your results may vary. :beer:

Climb...I'll take aluminium to go up...then steel to go downhill........... :D

:beer:

[flydhest]

climb,

why do you think those materials are better for climibing purposes?

[zap]

:rolleyes: :banana: :fight:

[Climb01742]

big dan, agree. nothing descends like my mxl.

fly, for me, maybe two reasons: weight. and acceleration that requires less torque. again, highly personal, but i find classic steel requires more torque to accelerate. i'm torque-challenged. :rolleyes: other materials seem to take less power to propel. same reason i love my steel marcelo. it accelerates like alu. not saying any of this is true, just my .02.

[flydhest]

climb--and you know that I love to twit you on this--what I think you're saying is that you want a bike that is light and . . . err, stiff maybe? Does it matter how one gets to that point in terms of materials?

Again, I'm thinking of old Vitus that were super flexy.

How exactly torque comes in leaves me a bit puzzled, though. I'm not sure you mean torque, but maybe you do.

Are you concerned about the deflection of frame when force is applied or is it something else?

[Climb01742]

fly,
ben clued me into something once. frames can be seen as top and botton halves. i happen to like stiff top halves and some flex in the bottom half (including low profile, somewhat "flexy" wheels.) very stiff (top and bottom) doesn't work for me. very flexy (top and bottom, a la ghisallo) doesn't work for me either.
when i say torque, perhaps it is a combo of two things: how the frame flexes (cause flex can be good) under load, and how much load it takes to get the frame to jump. words often poorly describe physical actions and i don't know enuf, in depth about frames, to choose my words better.

[chrisroph]

Saab--I have been riding my steels some lately. It is always an adjustment when going from steel to something else. For example, my steel spectrum has a steel fork and a steel stem. The front end is extremely solid. When jumping on to the majestic, the most notable difference is in the solidity of the front end. The spectrum is much tighter and less flexy. I far and away prefer the ti bike going uphill and the steel bike going downhill. The ti bike is a good 2.5 lbs lighter and more flexible, both of which help going up. Going down the spectrum is better because of the dead solid perfect feel in the front end. The Eddy descends exceptionally well too but the spectrum is flat out better. It sounds like you are trying real hard to like the Eddy but that you are finding it lacking going up.

[flydhest]

climb,

I mostly get what you're saying, but again, my point is that you're describing how you want a bike to ride/respond and I'm not sure how one goes from that to saying that steel can't do that or, more accurately, that Ti/alum/carbon shine at it. You said very flexy top and bottom (a la Ghisallo) doesn't work for you either, and yet, isn't it Ti? So . . . it seems like you're saying that some Ti bikes can be made to climb well, but maybe some can't. Some aluminum bikes can climb well, but . . . if you want some flex, there are plenty that won't for you.

I'd agree with you that different riders and different styles of riding respond better or worse to frames that ride in different ways, but to say that carbon, Ti/alum frames shine at climbing seems like a non sequitur.

[Climb01742]

fly, you are correct. so i'll simply say this: i have yet to ride a steel frame that i enjoy climbing on as much as i enjoy climbing aboard a parlee, an IF ti CJ, my new ottrott or a cckmp. your point is well taken--i'll stick to specifics, and avoid generalities. but i've ridden a lot of steel frames, and i enjoy many many things about them, but pure climbing isn't one of them. :D

[weisan]

fly, you are correct. so i'll simply say this: i have yet to ride a steel frame that i enjoy climbing on as much as i enjoy climbing aboard a parlee, an IF ti CJ, my new ottrott or a cckmp. your point is well taken--i'll stick to specifics, and avoid generalities. but i've ridden a lot of steel frames, and i enjoy many many things about them, but pure climbing isn't one of them. :D

Climb-pal, but have you ridden in one of Richie-sawa's finest work, a "Signature-Red Sachometer"?

[Climb01742]

Climb-pal, but have you ridden in one of Richie-sawa's finest work, a "Signature-Red Sachometer"?

haven't had the pleasure.

[weisan]

Me think you are making a BIG mistake for not asking him to design you a steed specifically for your Mt. Washington's conquest. No wait! I forgot his waiting list is 30,000 miles long. Nevermind~

[Climb01742]

i'd be curious how many people ride mt washington on steel frame. not saying it can't be done, but... :beer:

[weisan]

Scroll down the page and check out the featured rider...
http://www.smartcycles.com/torelli.htm

[e-RICHIE]

Climb90210 writes:
"i'd be curious how many people ride mt washington on steel frame. not saying it can't be done, but..."


mon dieu*!
i cannot believe i am reading this.
i believe an RS guy and fellow board member
broke top 15 in the past 2-3 years (and HE has
a day job), not to mention the other minions
that were behind him.
e-RICHIE

* french for "my dieu".

[Climb01742]

more power to him. but one does not a trend make.
:rolleyes:

richie, i mean no disrespect. but i'd guess the trend is away from steel.

[e-RICHIE]

ahhh
the power of marketing