wheels - can you really tell a difference

[gabbard]

OK, not between Shimano 105 cheapos and ADA's, but say all of the $4-800 wheelsets. I am considering a set of the Odd's and Endos new 30 mm deep rim wheelset with bladed spokes and wondering if I will be able to tell any difference between them and my Record/Open Pro wheels. Standard ride is 20-25 mph in a group, climbing, descending, etc. so the speeds are in the range (in theory) where I might see some aero benefit. Also, the O and E's wheels will be about 300 grams lighter, around 1500, compared to my 1800 gram current setup.

So, when you folks switch between Ksyriums and Rolfs and handbuilt wheels, do you notice anything? Should I save my money for something else?

Steve

[Ray]

OK, not between Shimano 105 cheapos and ADA's, but say all of the $4-800 wheelsets. I am considering a set of the Odd's and Endos new 30 mm deep rim wheelset with bladed spokes and wondering if I will be able to tell any difference between them and my Record/Open Pro wheels. Standard ride is 20-25 mph in a group, climbing, descending, etc. so the speeds are in the range (in theory) where I might see some aero benefit. Also, the O and E's wheels will be about 300 grams lighter, around 1500, compared to my 1800 gram current setup.

So, when you folks switch between Ksyriums and Rolfs and handbuilt wheels, do you notice anything? Should I save my money for something else?

Steve
I think the conventional wisdom is that you'll feel some difference from the lighter weight and there'll be some measureable difference from the aero differences, but you may not feel that. I'd been riding with DA/Open Pro wheels for a few years and got a set of FSA RD-400s about a year and a half or so ago, which are similar to the Odds and Endos in weight and probably less aero (but more aero than the open pros). They definitely feel quicker to accellerate. I don't measure my meager speeds very often, so I don't know if the slight aero benefit is making a difference. I tend to ride solo and a lot slower than 20-25 mph, so my benefit would be less. But I like the way they ride. I'm starting to have some durability issues, so I don't know that I'd recommend these wheels, but I think decent chi chi wheels in general make a perceivable difference.

-Ray

[ada@prorider.or]

you can feel the differance when you are very sensitive
and how the wheels are build and what what kind of constuction

ceeshttp://forums.thepaceline.net/newreply.php?do=newreply&noquote=1&p=90470#

[lnomalley]

think of it like quantifying the difference in feeling of the shoes you are wearing. rim depth, spoke count, lateral stiffness, vertical compliance, bladed spokes, materials, etc.. all these things make wheels feel different from each other is subtle but very meaningful ways.... they all work the same but they dont feel the same.

some wheels accelerate with more gusto, some are better in corners, some feel better up to speed....
pepperoni pizza and hawaiian pizza... they are the same thing but not the same (better this than the sex metaphor that first came to mind).

its all about taste and whether or not you are sensitive to this stuff. it's subjective but there is an area of something universal about some wheels too.

[Ozz]

My handbuilts (DT RR1.1/240s/Competition spokes) are more comfortable (smooth road buzz?) than my Campy Eurus which are faster (above 25 mph).

Both are about the same weight and accelerate equally (mostly due to rider).

Both run GP3000's (700x23) at about 110-115 psi

I worry less about breaking a spoke with the DT's....never had any problems with the Campy in 2 yrs riding them. I weigh 180lbs

[Kurt]

OK, not between Shimano 105 cheapos and ADA's, but say all of the $4-800 wheelsets. I am considering a set of the Odd's and Endos new 30 mm deep rim wheelset with bladed spokes and wondering if I will be able to tell any difference between them and my Record/Open Pro wheels. Standard ride is 20-25 mph in a group, climbing, descending, etc. so the speeds are in the range (in theory) where I might see some aero benefit. Also, the O and E's wheels will be about 300 grams lighter, around 1500, compared to my 1800 gram current setup.

So, when you folks switch between Ksyriums and Rolfs and handbuilt wheels, do you notice anything? Should I save my money for something else?

Steve

I have owned many of the wheels mentioned here, ksyrium, AC420, neutron, rolf pro's, etc. only own one set now - odds&endros velocity based aeroheads - do a search to find more info. If you have ANY wind where you ride, I would pass on a wheel that is more than 25mm and also pass on bladed spokes - the difference in confidence descending at 40++ with a non-aero setup justified the purchase alone – both my wheels have 32 drillings so they are much more comfortable than others I have used and if I lose a spoke I keep riding. Mike is a pleasure the deal with, so far the best cycling item I have purchased – love the aeroheads as a do everything rim, again, do a search.

edit: oh, just a few other thoughts - the velocity rears have a major offset that puts the hub much more in the middle, it makes for a more evenly tensioned buildup and if you believe anything about rotational weight the rims should be as light as possible without sacrificing durability, even the shaved K’s are 450+ @ the rim and K elites have a total weigh of 1900 a pair. The way motorcycle and car racers spend fortunes on light wheels leads me to believe there is something with it – many of the m/c guys I ride with use carbon or other super light alloy wheels on the track and street. I think one has to separate functionally from bling, deep dish have a great cool factor but as an everyday wheel I think they are limited.

[Tom]

My personal instantaneous speed record was set on a pair of Open Pro 32-spoke over Chorus hubs.

I don't know that my Ksyrium Elites are measurably faster but they handle a lot more crisply, I think. I can snap the bike into turns or line changes where the OP's sashay themselves around more lazily.

I like the K's on climbs.

I think you can tell the difference. I just wouldn't necessarily say that the difference is speed.

[saab2000]

I don't know if it is because they are Nucleons (just the old version of Neutrons) of if it is because they are tubulars, but I CAN feel the difference between my OPs laced to Record hubs and my Nucleon Tubulars.

I was skeptical. Believe me, I really was. But those Campy wheels seem stiff and lively.

I would love to try some Hyperons!!!!

PS - Today I bought 6 (count 'em, six, sechs, saechs,.....) Veloflex Criteriums for my Nucleons!!! :banana: :banana: :banana: I happened to be in Minneapolis and they were having a sale. Rock 'n Roll Kids!!!

[eddief]

this topic never fails to be one of the most entertaining. I can't feel any difference in the four sets of wheels on my bikes. I can occasionally hear the computer magnet hit the transmitter when out of the saddle on my 24 spoke front 28 spoke rear Mavic Cosmos wheels. So I can hear, but not feel the difference.

[coylifut]

Between OPs and Ksyriums and Bontrager Race X Lites. I ride the OPs so much, when I put a different set on for racing, I feel a slight difference. Especially when climbing at speed.

[William]

I recently picked up a brandy new pair of Cosmics (at less then 50%, timing eh Steve :) ) and I can certainly feel a difference compared to the 36H O4CD's, OP's & Omega V's laced to DA hubs that I've ridden forever. The ride feels a little stiffer but not a huge difference. They do feel faster and over the same routes I would say that my average speeds have bumped up a couple of notches.

Vague description I know. But I know what I feel.


William :)

[cs124]

Can some people feel the difference? Yes. Can you? Only you can answer that. If you can swing it, try to borrow or get a test ride on the wheels you are interested in, and, if you are really serious about the comparison, run the same tyres at the same pressures.

Either you will or you won't be able to tell the difference. If you can, great, buy the ones you like. If you can't, great, one less decision you have to make.

[Michael Katz]

I have OP's on Record hubs with 32 14/15 DT spokes, Campy Eurus and older Ksyrium SL's which I recently rotated on my bike over a period of several weeks. Same tires, same pressures (GP 3000 @ 120 - yeah, I know, I should lower it to 110). Ksyrium's are definately the stiffest and transmit the most road buzz. Op's the least stiff and least road buzz. No doubt about this in my mind. In terms of performance, Ksyriums feel like they climb faster and handle more crisply. At speed on the flats, Eurus feel as fast but smoother than the Ksyriums. For pure plushness, OP's are the winners.

[RichMc]

I've ridden on Campy Eurus, Velomax Circuits, Velomax Orion II's, and Shimano R550. Of those, I could tell that the Shimano was the one wheelset with a definite harsher ride. It totally changed the character of one bike when I swapped out the Shimano's with the Circuits. There seems to be just the slightest difference between the Campy and Velomax's, maybe. I'm glad now that the bike that ended up with the Shimano's has been sold. I'm putting a second set of Eurus wheels on a Pegoretti Marcelo. It'll be fun to compare that ride to the Axiom, which is also running the Eurus.

[hypnospin]

from my experience with bladed spokes and deep aero rims i would agree with the advantage being greatest at over 25, when aero advantages really start to come into play. 'round 30 even more so...
this sucess with your eurus' has me thinking about getting some, er, spousal approval?


My handbuilts (DT RR1.1/240s/Competition spokes) are more comfortable (smooth road buzz?) than my Campy Eurus which are faster (above 25 mph).

Both are about the same weight and accelerate equally (mostly due to rider).

Both run GP3000's (700x23) at about 110-115 psi

I worry less about breaking a spoke with the DT's....never had any problems with the Campy in 2 yrs riding them. I weigh 180lbs

[Too Tall]

"Odd's and Endos new 30 mm deep rim wheelset with bladed spokes and wondering if I will be able to tell any difference between them and my Record/Open Pro wheels."


Not much. Using the same tyres and pressure(s) the 30mm section will catch some air in strong gusts and be more jarring over road imperfections.