I kind of feel bad to be a Merlin owner now.

[tuxbailey]

ABG not honoring the Cielo warranty (http://americanbicyclegroup.wordpress.com/)

I bought my bike used so I will never get warranty service. I just hope my bike doesn't crack.

[Jawn P]

Two sides to every story...

[rugbysecondrow]

As a consumer, I am biased towards the consumers perspective.

[jlwdm]

I am biased towards what is true and fair. Two sides for sure.

This has been beat to death on RBR; not sure why it needs to start over here.

Jeff

[avalonracing]

As a Merlin rider I'm completely on their side. For now ;)

[tuxbailey]

I am biased towards what is true and fair. Two sides for sure.

This has been beat to death on RBR; not sure why it needs to start over here.

Jeff

Well I didn't read the police part in RBR and I just found it shocking that ABG is refusing warranty citing a crash when that bike looks so clean.

Plus I am also interested in the opinion of folks here since they are quite knowledgeable, and because I ride a Merlin.

Plus, how many threads in any forum are genuinely "new?" We are just looking for new perspective.

[MadRocketSci]

Merlin as a subsidiary of ABG has been suspended in favor of Litespeed. IOW, stick a fork in it, it's done. For any future warranty claims I would imagine that if not repairable, replacement will be with Litespeeds anyway.

Anyone who wants a new Merlin should look towards Spectrum and Seven.

Merlin est mort, vive Merlin!

[tuxbailey]

Merlin as a subsidiary of ABG has been suspended in favor of Litespeed. IOW, stick a fork in it, it's done. For any future warranty claims I would imagine that if not repairable, replacement will be with Litespeeds anyway.

Anyone who wants a new Merlin should look towards Spectrum and Seven.

Merlin est mort, vive Merlin!

That is a shame since they are beautifully made.

Well, I hope the weld points in my frame doesn't suffer any hydrogen embrittlement failures.

[vqdriver]

Regardless of this claim Merlin seems to have faded big time in the market. If shopping for ti I think there's enough choices to pick from. No need to go out on a limb. It is a shame those sexy stays and badass engraving is wasted.

[maxdog]

As a consumer, I am biased towards the consumers perspective.

+1

[binxnyrwarrsoul]

Scratch Litespeed and Merlin off the bucket list.

[saab2000]

I'm not familiar with the story other than what I read here. But it seems like a pretty good excuse to make the call to Mr. Smiley or one of the other reputable folks here who will put you on a new Ottrott, at which time you will forget you ever even had this Merlin and you will wonder what all the fuss was about.

Make that call. Get the Serotta.

Just my $.02

[Lifelover]

The guys biggest problem (assuming it is true) is that he lives someplace where the police will knock on your door because of some post on a forum.

That is what I find crazy.

[ti_boi]

Police? Holy **** Let that company die now. Seriously. Heard some rumors about their frames. But would never consider one. Ugh.

[AngryScientist]

it's a shame, i love my Merlin, hopefully it'll just keep on keeping on.

[William]

Police? Holy **** Let that company die now. Seriously. Heard some rumors about their frames. But would never consider one. Ugh.

You will be served shortly. :no: :rolleyes:



If this story is true, what a bunch of A-holes. But keep in mind there are two sides to the story.....and this is the internet.






William

[BumbleBeeDave]

From reading the blog and threads, it seems to me very posisble that the British rep could have filed this complaint with no knowledge to the home office. Always possible . . . could anybody on this side of the pond even file such a complaint with British local police?

But aside from that, I have written off ABG and Merlin ever since ABG took over the company some years back. The account I heard from several sources included ABG padlocking the Merlin facility overnight and telling the employees all production was moving to Litespeed HQ in Tennessee and they could maybe keep working if they moved there--at their own expense. This is where Seven and Indy Fab got their sudden infusion of quality Ti fabrication employees. Perhaps some Boston area forum members can enlighten us as to whether this account I heard is all true? . . .

My understanding is ABG is a division of a larger capital partners company and is only an umbrella holding company for several different bike brands. To a large holding company all these bike names are only brands to be mined for profit. Given the shrinking market for Ti and the pronounced move by Litespeed toward carbon and away from Ti, it doesn't really surprise me they wouldn't devote a lot of effort to customer service for Ti. Does anyone know if Merlin is even still selling in this country?

On another angle, if this really IS shoddy welds then I would be interested in Tom Kellog's take on this. I think the Litespeed folks do his fabrication in their Merlin section . . .

BBD

[Bob Ross]

On another angle, if this really IS shoddy welds then I would be interested in Tom Kellog's take on this. I think the Litespeed folks do his fabrication in their Merlin section . . .

No longer; as per a recent post by Tom across the hall, Merlin only sources the tubesets for Spectrum bikes (presumably taking advantage of their quantity buying power) and then the welders at Seven do the actual frame fabrication. Not sure how long that arrangement has been in place. Yes, in the past welding was done at Merlin.

[R2D2]

There are two sides to evey story.
I wonder how the hanger got bent and the non drive side got cracked.
Maybe shipping? Maybe a wreck?
Just curious.

[bobswire]

There are two sides to evey story.
I wonder how the hanger got bent and the non drive side got cracked.
Maybe shipping? Maybe a wreck?
Just curious.

I imagine the drive side snapped resulting in undue forces to the hanger and non drive side. Pretty basic IMO.

[tuxbailey]

No longer; as per a recent post by Tom across the hall, Merlin only sources the tubesets for Spectrum bikes (presumably taking advantage of their quantity buying power) and then the welders at Seven do the actual frame fabrication. Not sure how long that arrangement has been in place. Yes, in the past welding was done at Merlin.

That is cool.

[forrestw]

The guy posting this over on RBR and creating a blog for no other apparent purpose than publicly accusing ABG for alleged warranty FAIL seems like a failing strategy. ... Seeking advice on internet: probably not slander .. Flaming on internet: probably counter-productive and possibly slanderous.

Historically the UK as compared with the US has teeth in their slander statutes, I believe this is tied up in our 1st amendment.

Clearly (I think???) this is an ABG/Litespeed built merlin?

There's no clear evidence from the given photos whether this frame has been damaged in use, or if the original welding / forming is at fault. The RH failure looks to propagate across the weld but that doesn't say much. The LH crack is clearly sited along the edge of the weld and by my understanding of hydrogen embrittlement, that's not the cause here.

The Merlin owner has provided no useful information about the age of the frame or miles ridden.

Given that the busted dropout could easily be removed and examined under a microscope, the owner could have had it looked at locally or could ask that ABG return the frame so that he can do forensics .. but that would have been better done / documented before sending it off .. might even have obviated the entire fight.

The point here being that the LH dropout is pretty clearly in the process of experiencing a fatigue failure (whatever the cause) and knowing where the RH weld failure originated (a simple matter as long as you've got a microscope handy) would go some distance in determining the real cause.

The photos given give me some ideas for what might have happened but determining what did happen is most likely an easy thing to do without going into destructive testing.

(*EDIT*)
I am / was tremendously amused by the RBR forumites crying *Hydrogen embrittlement* and even the one "*Oxygen embrittlement*" (something I've never heard of).

Glad to say I have no professional experience of H+ embrittlement but here's how I understand it to work in weldments: make a weld with some contaminant, usually moisture, resulting in H+ entrapped in the weld zone. As I understand it, this is not a huge deal for ductile / low strength metals. However in higher strength alloys the H+ migrates from the weld into the HAZ which is normally in a state of tensile stress due to shrinkage of the weld metal. Put H+ into that zone and you have a material of low ductility (i.e. relatively brittle) probably in tension (the way cracks like to open and form) add the H+ and cracks form quickly at relatively low stresses (google 'stress corrosion').

The one substantive experience i have with welding in materials that were prone to H+ embrittlement was adding metal to the cracked corners of a tool steel blacksmith-anvil face, using 11018 (i.e. low-hydrogen 110ksi tensile strength) welding rod. 20 years on of abuse at the hands of MIT students said anvil has not formed any cracks. Probably dumb luck I'm not AWS certified in my welding but I'm careful to follow instructions and setup the heats etc in the non-stressed wrought iron sections so I didn't have to start the actual work blind.

[Vancouverdave]

My suggestion for anyone buying a used bike made by a manufacturer with a dealer network is, cultivate a great relationship with a dealer for that brand.
Buy at undiscounted retail from them, drop a bag of coffee by once in awhile.
I used to work for a shop that is a huge dealer for the Trek Empire; then and now they will go to bat for customers in potential warranty disputes.. This is one of the places where an LBS can earn your business and they're often happy to do it. I viewed part of my job as being an advocate for customers when a manufacturer was taking that customer's money in exchange for the privelege of being used as a product development assistant.

[avalonracing]

It is a shame to see a company like Merlin run into the ground. ABG has had severe management issues. I know a former ABG rep and definitely understand his reasons for leaving the company.

It's a shame. Titanium really is a magic frame material and AGB, with their talent and capabilities, could have had a much larger market.

In the later years their bikes were well made. There was a period a decade or so ago when we were seeing some thrashed Ultimates cracking but I think that was due to pushing the material's limits and also because consumers where very vocal when their "indestructible, lifetime bike" just cracked. I mean Cannondales cracked. Treks cracked. It's just people weren't surprised by it. That said when an ABG bike cracked the response from the company should been. "Holy ????! We are sorry. We'll take care of it right away".

That said think ABG should have:
1- Spent money and time educating the public and dealers about the real advantages of Titanium. When you compare a good Ti bike to "me too" carbon bike Ti definitely looks good. This would have been easier ten years ago before the costs of producing a decent carbon bike came down so much. For a period Ti bikes were a big deal. Did they get worse? No they got even better. Was carbon really superior? No, just different. Riders just got sold a bill of goods and were taught to think that they needed a 2lb frame for their weekend group ride.

2-Sponsored a higher level team(s). People do like riding what the pros ride. Unless he saw it on TV, the local guy with a beer gut would not be buying a plastic, pink bike with French words on it. Yes, sponsorship can be expensive and you don't always see a direct return on investment but it works. Ever see a Chevy Monte Carlo and think "What in the hell made someone buy that?!?" ...Sponsorship
While ABG did offer some support for local clubs and Merlin did support the Rite-Aid pro it was too little too late.

3- Differentiate the product lines. The should have picked an identity for Litespeed and one for Merlin. One could have been the indestructible, go anywhere, lifetime bikes and the other line could have been the entry-level to spare no expense race bikes. Or maybe one like could have been road and the other been MTBs.

4-Support the IDBs. For years just about everyone knew that at the end of the season you could get the already discounted Litespeeds at crazy closeout prices from Colorado Cyclist.

5- And oh, that freaking Litespeed logo. It took them a decade to get away from that horrible, yellow, block letter crap. Since then they seem to change it every other year. Come on guys. Ever read a book on branding?

Yes, I'm armchair quarterbacking but in the end, ABG had a great product and the ability to really make a change in the market and secure a permanent position for a high-end, American-made, titanium only, bike company.

[R2D2]

I imagine the drive side snapped resulting in undue forces to the hanger and non drive side. Pretty basic IMO.

Could be.
It really looks like the chain stays are out of alignment with the seat stays.
And over time the stress caused the welds to snap.

[Fixed]

I imagine the drive side snapped resulting in undue forces to the hanger and non drive side. Pretty basic IMO.
da yeah ti can break just like anything else
imho
cheers :beer:

[oldpotatoe]

[QUOTE=BumbleBeeDave]From reading the blog and threads, it seems to me very posisble that the British rep could have filed this complaint with no knowledge to the home office. Always possible . . . could anybody on this side of the pond even file such a complaint with British local police?

But aside from that, I have written off ABG and Merlin ever since ABG took over the company some years back. The account I heard from several sources included ABG padlocking the Merlin facility overnight and telling the employees all production was moving to Litespeed HQ in Tennessee and they could maybe keep working if they moved there--at their own expense. This is where Seven and Indy Fab got their sudden infusion of quality Ti fabrication employees. Perhaps some Boston area forum members can enlighten us as to whether this account I heard is all true? . . .

Not defending anything but the Merlin factory/business was out of business and it was soon to be padlocked for unpaid debt. ABG didn't padlock it. Litespeed/ABG bought it at the 25th hour, all the fixtures and off they went to Tennessee. Yes, they offered jobs to most of the welders at merlin..none agreed since it would involve moving toe TN. Remember who started then left Merlin also, with regards to Seven.

[fourflys]

will put you on a new Ottrott, at which time you will forget you ever even had this Merlin and you will wonder what all the fuss was about.


there might be a a bit of a price difference....

[drewski]

He must of spoken to the Car Talk director of customer service.
Haywood Youbuzzoff.

Or maybe:

http://www.debateitout.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/north-korea.jpg

[Jeff N.]

The guys biggest problem (assuming it is true) is that he lives someplace where the police will knock on your door because of some post on a forum.

That is what I find crazy.
For sure! Sieg Heil!

[Lifelover]

Two sides to every story...

There are 3 sides to every story. Yours, mine and the truth.

[BumbleBeeDave]

Not defending anything but the Merlin factory/business was out of business and it was soon to be padlocked for unpaid debt. ABG didn't padlock it. Litespeed/ABG bought it at the 25th hour, all the fixtures and off they went to Tennessee. Yes, they offered jobs to most of the welders at merlin..none agreed since it would involve moving toe TN. Remember who started then left Merlin also, with regards to Seven.

Thank you for the update. So you are saying it was the original owners of Merlin who left their employees in the lurch, not ABG?

BBD

[Mr. Squirrel]

The guys biggest problem (assuming it is true) is that he lives someplace where the police will knock on your door because of some post on a forum.

That is what I find crazy.


http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/067Yg2MaR7dEY/610x.jpg


the bobbies harass me as well. they do not want to share their nuts.

mr. squirrel

[Lifelover]

I just read through the RBR thread and some of his blog. My bet is that the bike owner is not telling the whole story and is now out just to screw Merlin.

Shame on him.

ATMO of course.

[TMB]

What I don't understand about all of it is why didn't the fellow who owns the bike simply find a Ti builder close to home to fix it?

The thread on RBR is mirrored by another that the same fellow started on BikeRadar, and then the blog ( which I have not read ), there may well be other threads on other forums, who knows.

But for the time and trouble and effort the fellow has invested in creating these threads, and monitoring them, and following up and replying... across multiple forums ...

Why not just get the bike repaired, send ABG the bill if it makes you feel better, but at least you would have a repaired bike, that you can ride.

Now, as I understand it, he has in fact packed the frame up, shipped it off overseas to ABG and they have the frame ... he has nothing.

I don't get it.

[avalonracing]

This was from Merlin:
“We have examined your frame and unfortunately we believe that the crack was caused by an impact to the rear end. We believe this because, not only did we find that the non-drive side drop out was cracked, the head tube was also cracked and the rear mech hanger was bent."

The head tube too? Sounds a bit like something more than a "just ridin' along" issue.


I just read through the RBR thread and some of his blog. My bet is that the bike owner is not telling the whole story and is now out just to screw Merlin.

Shame on him.

ATMO of course.

[R2D2]

This was from Merlin:
“We have examined your frame and unfortunately we believe that the crack was caused by an impact to the rear end. We believe this because, not only did we find that the non-drive side drop out was cracked, the head tube was also cracked and the rear mech hanger was bent."

The head tube too? Sounds a bit like something more than a "just ridin' along" issue.

In the owners defense, there is no picture of the headtube supplied.
BTW I'm just a curious bystander. Fellow sure kicked a dust storm though.

[54ny77]

For someone to go to all that trouble, he's either a scam artist or this is a legitimate claim and he's pissed and has time/resources to make things incredibly annoying for the mfgr. If the former, well....

But if the latter, more power to him. The bike shop who sold it to him (Hi-Tech Bikes, if I remember correctly?) is a reputable shop too (and I've bought things there), and it sounds like they're in his court with vouching for the messed up welds.

Maybe the bike got additionally slammed during shipment. If so, that sucks.

Hard to tell from all the jibber jabber, but it sounds like email was the most often used form of communication. Mistake #1. For that kind of thing, phone or in person makes most sense. Tough to do so from overseas, yes. Ugly situation regardless.

And for what it's worth, Merlin customer service is a joke. I wanted to buy one about a year and a half ago, and contacted the company on several occasions with some questions. I figured maybe 1 out of 3 inquires might get a response, which is fine, but I never heard a peep. Their website sucks too, it's a year or two old (last time I looked). Too bad, it's such a storied brand with fantastic history.

[tuxbailey]

But for the time and trouble and effort the fellow has invested in creating these threads, and monitoring them, and following up and replying... across multiple forums ...

Why not just get the bike repaired, send ABG the bill if it makes you feel better, but at least you would have a repaired bike, that you can ride.



I don't know, if it was my bike and I bought it new and ABG refused to honor the warranty, you bet I would kick up a storm too.

The problem with getting the bike repaired before the company examines it is that they can always refuse any warranty saying that work is done and they didn't have a chance to inspect it. Unless they have an independent third party to verify it locally.

[avalonracing]

Some people do get caught up in their own headspace though be they right or wrong. That said, just for the sake of argument, imagine that Merlin is being completely honest in their diagnosis. Should they replace an expensive frame from a sketchy customer who is trying to get one over? Absolutely not. Even if it causes bad press. I would rather see that money go toward the business and the employees.

Again, I'm not saying it's the case but if Merlin really does believe that they are in the right there offer of a discounted replacement is fair.

As for the visit from the local law enforcement? I didn't read the whole post. If he threatened someone, sure. If it was just slander that is a bit heavy handed. And again, let's not assume that ABG sent the Secret Police out.

[Derailer]

Interesting that the frame damage was contemporaneous with the installation of his new wheels. Why was he installing new wheels? Maybe simple upgraditis; maybe the wheel got trashed in a collision of some sort.

[StellaBlue]

I'd bet the farm that frame didn't just "fail". I highly doubt they made up the head tube damage.

[Mikej]

Do they even make Merlins anymore? I think they do not want to warranty it because they can't - no more parts and not making any soon. They offered a LS C1? Why not a Merlin XL? Or a new Cielo if they are offering it means they admit something, but like I said, they dont have anymore parts. My .02. Hope he gets it resolved. Also, I dont know how one would bend a derailluer hanger OUTWARD when crashing, they usually bend inward towards the wheel. And I would bet a down tube or a carbon / ti junction would crack before a head tube, in a collision, of which there is no picture of. I call BS on ABG.

[StellaBlue]

Do they even make Merlins anymore? I think they do not want to warranty it because they can't - no more parts and not making any soon. They offered a LS C1? Why not a Merlin XL? Or a new Cielo if they are offering it means they admit something, but like I said, they dont have anymore parts. My .02. Hope he gets it resolved.

Lemonds aren't made anymore either but I've heard of trek still honoring warranties. Kinda the same deal except you would get a litespeed if new ownership felt it was warranted.. My 2 cents

[Smiley]

I'm not familiar with the story other than what I read here. But it seems like a pretty good excuse to make the call to Mr. Smiley or one of the other reputable folks here who will put you on a new Ottrott, at which time you will forget you ever even had this Merlin and you will wonder what all the fuss was about.

Make that call. Get the Serotta.

Just my $.02


great advice :banana:

[FixedNotBroken]

Lemonds aren't made anymore either but I've heard of trek still honoring warranties. Kinda the same deal except you would get a litespeed if new ownership felt it was warranted.. My 2 cents

I have a friend who had a a 97 Zurich and in 05, where the head tube and the down tube meet, there was a crack in it as well with the crown..they warrantied it and sent him a brand new 5 series Madone frame. Trek does stand by their warranty. I bought a new Madone 5.9, in about a month I went to clean it so I took off the bottle cages and there was a crack that was almost an inch long, within a few hours of taking it to the bike shop, a Trek rep was there to check it out, sawed the frame in half and I had a new one on the way. They do a good job at standing by their product..

There are always three sides to the story though..as stated above. If I were him, I wouldn't deal with the Merlin, I would hop right onto an Ottrott hands down. Much sexier..

[avalonracing]

Lemonds aren't made anymore either but I've heard of trek still honoring warranties. Kinda the same deal except you would get a litespeed if new ownership felt it was warranted.. My 2 cents

That's fine, but what ABG was stating was that it wasn't a warranty issue more of a "I ran my bike into a wall, then a car drove over it, fix it or give me a new one" issue.

[BengeBoy]

That's fine, but what ABG was stating was that it wasn't a warranty issue more of a "I ran my bike into a wall, then a car drove over it, fix it or give me a new one" issue.


...and then they sent the police to the guy's house for making defamatory statements on the Interwebs. :confused: :confused:

Something about this story doesn't make sense.

Either:

A. the bike company and/or its Irish agent completely over-reacted by getting the police involved, or...

B. the complaining bike owner made other statements (threats, perhaps?) that got the police excited enough to pay a visit to one of their local citizenry.

I think there is more to the story here somewhere, no clue what it is...

Lessons learned for the rest of us are, maybe:
- Buy local?
- Don't try to solve warranty disputes in a public forum until you're persuaded you've exhausted all other remedies

[Ken Robb]

re: The Police Visit. I think libel/slander laws in the UK may be stricter than in the USA. Perhaps someone from there can comment?

[spartacus]

ABG not honoring the Cielo warranty (http://americanbicyclegroup.wordpress.com/)

I bought my bike used so I will never get warranty service. I just hope my bike doesn't crack.


I'd like to see the state of the old rear wheel before passing comment on what caused the double cracking and "bent" hanger.

Sending the police? That's just bonkers.

[R2D2]

re: The Police Visit. I think libel/slander laws in the UK may be stricter than in the USA. Perhaps someone from there can comment?

I'm not from the UK but have read the various threads. Reading between the lines, I think the "harrasment" issue has to do with repeatedly calling the secretary in Ireland to get an address.

[wc1934]

From reading the blog and threads, it seems to me very posisble that the British rep could have filed this complaint with no knowledge to the home office. Always possible . . . could anybody on this side of the pond even file such a complaint with British local police?

But aside from that, I have written off ABG and Merlin ever since ABG took over the company some years back. The account I heard from several sources included ABG padlocking the Merlin facility overnight and telling the employees all production was moving to Litespeed HQ in Tennessee and they could maybe keep working if they moved there--at their own expense. This is where Seven and Indy Fab got their sudden infusion of quality Ti fabrication employees. Perhaps some Boston area forum members can enlighten us as to whether this account I heard is all true? . .

BBD

From what I remember from talking from with a "friend" (offered get me a good deal on a merlin - never did come thru) who was a vp at Saucony at the time:

Saucony (subsidiary of Hind -or maybe the other way around) bought Merlin after Rob Vandermark and others left to form Seven Cycles and Merlin's frame sales began to decline. - poor leadership -lack of direction - who knows?

At this time Merlin was known for producing custom frames - however they still continued to produce, at a high volume, non-custom frames which were stockpiled. Bills continued to mount, and around late 1999? Saucony transferred all of Merlin's assets to Litespeed and moved the entire operation to Tn, where production costs, taxes etc were less - the entire move was to save money, but I believe it was already a sinking ship.
Would love to hear an account from those really involved.

[forrestw]

Further perusal of RBR turned up a response from a fellow who'd had a similar fracture on his Merlin -- a pre-saucony/ABG ownership built bike that ABG did repair but not under warranty, and another from a Litespeed owner who had his frame repaired by another builder who said there was insufficient weld penetration.

The Merlin pictured has a plate steel dropout welded to the welded/sculpted end of the chainstay meaning that out-of-saddle climbing is going to be putting max strain directly through the weld (it's the smallest cross section at the point of highest flex).

Thinking back, when I looked at Serotta and Seven it was no contest simply due to what I saw at the weld of the dropout to the chainstay. The Legend uses a machined part that flares up to the size of the seat stay and the weld runs the entire diameter of the tubing. It's much more elegant than the Seven implementation, which in turn IMO is better than ABG/Litespeed(merlin) because Seven's dropout looks to be about 2x longer, hence Seven's weld is considerably less stressed.

Still in my mind there's no comparison between either of those and my Serotta.

Finally, both of the Cielo dropout welds pictured in the guy's posts are a far cry from the degree of pretty in all the Serotta welds I've seen.

[BengeBoy]

re: The Police Visit. I think libel/slander laws in the UK may be stricter than in the USA. Perhaps someone from there can comment?

I am not a lawyer (nor a Brit) but have some experience w/libel/slander laws in the UK. They are different than in the U.S. but usually warnings/libel actions are communicated via letters and stern phone calls. The biggest differences I've observed are that (1) the standard for prior restraint (keeping something from going to print) is much lower in the UK and (2) it's much easier for public figures/celebrities to collect on libel claims in the UK; very hard for public figures to collect on libel claims in the U.S.

Police visits -- especially to an individual -- still strike me as highly unusual.

[PaulE]

3 sides to every story - yours, mine and the truth - hopefully the truth is somewhere in between yours and mine. Without any additional information I usually assume the truth is about halfway between the two.

The picture in the blog showing the bent rear derailleur hanger is pretty distorted IMHO. If not, that is one weird looking, long, thin thumb, with some pretty stubby, pudgy fingertips. If the picture is distorted, it's tough to say how much the derailleur hanger is bent. I read some of the postings in the other forums. There the picture is not or less distorted and in one of the pictures it looks as much as the ruler is not being held flush to the hanger.

As for the cracked headtube, of which there were no pictures. The frame had to be completely stripped, and in one picture, it looks as if the headset was removed. Could headset removal have caused a crack in the headtube?

This customer in the UK is dealing directly with ABG instead of the dealer he bought the bike from because he bought it online from a shop in San Diego.

When ABG changed their position they should have offered to repair the damage instead of replacing the Merlin with a Litespeed.

[salem]

A number of years back, I was moonlighting in a shop that sold ABG Litespeeds. I never personally had to deal with them for warranty issues, but take it as you will, I never heard anything good from those that did. My memorable experience involved a special order for a bike in a size that was out of stock with ABG. We placed an order after receiving an estimated delivery date that was OK with the customer.

A week after that date passed, I called ABG to ask about delivery. I was told that even though the order had been placed and a date given, they had gone through their production cycle of that frame and size without producing enough to fill even the existing orders and we would have to wait until the next loop of the production cycle.

In my opinion, that is an absurd way to manage production (big time in setting up a production cycle is adjusting jigs etc, not the time per frame), and they lost a sale because of it. In general, I am completely unimpressed by how that company runs, but this is the one experience I can personally site.

[soulspinner]

My suggestion for anyone buying a used bike made by a manufacturer with a dealer network is, cultivate a great relationship with a dealer for that brand.
Buy at undiscounted retail from them, drop a bag of coffee by once in awhile.
I used to work for a shop that is a huge dealer for the Trek Empire; then and now they will go to bat for customers in potential warranty disputes.. This is one of the places where an LBS can earn your business and they're often happy to do it. I viewed part of my job as being an advocate for customers when a manufacturer was taking that customer's money in exchange for the privelege of being used as a product development assistant.


This is 100 percent true where I work too.........

[pbjbike]

Most of my frame repairs at Merlin were from the earliest numbers, when internal purging was insufficient, usually at the BB. I never saw one cracked drop out, let alone two. Ti .25 plate, whether CP, or any alloy, can withstand any stress by any cyclist... There are a couple of possibilities in this case: The chainstay/drop out weld was not purged internally; the bike suffered a major rear impact; a combination of the two above and a drop out that could have been designed better.

[tuxbailey]

Just for the checking I went to Merlin's website and it seems like they finally updated their site. Now only the Extralight and the XLM is available. Cielo, Aspen, etc are no longer listed.

[Peter P.]

It looks to me like Merlin/ABG was being EXTREMELY fair-they first offered him a crash replacement DISCOUNTED frame. He continues to piss and moan and, in an effort to get him off their back, on 13 Dec 10 ABG offers him a Litespeed C1 frame. Okay; the Litespeed is not the Merlin the "old bloke" had. If he was smart, he'd take the Litespeed offered, sell it, then buy something else that satisfies him, and wash his hands of what he likely considers a bad experience.

I think there's got to be some compromise here and ABG made a conciliatory gesture. Now it's his turn, but he's gonna hold his breath until he turns blue or gets his Merlin. Quite frankly, he's not someone I would want to ride with.

[Lifelover]

It looks to me like Merlin/ABG was being EXTREMELY fair-they first offered him a crash replacement DISCOUNTED frame. He continues to piss and moan and, in an effort to get him off their back, on 13 Dec 10 ABG offers him a Litespeed C1 frame. Okay; the Litespeed is not the Merlin the "old bloke" had. If he was smart, he'd take the Litespeed offered, sell it, then buy something else that satisfies him, and wash his hands of what he likely considers a bad experience.

I think there's got to be some compromise here and ABG made a conciliatory gesture. Now it's his turn, but he's gonna hold his breath until he turns blue or gets his Merlin. Quite frankly, he's not someone I would want to ride with.
If I were ABG I would send him the replacement frame, destroy the damaged one and never respond to him again. If he has the means to take them to court from the UK, so be it. Present their case and move on.

This clown won't make or break them. I wouldn't mind riding with him but I would never want to sell him anything. Some customers are not worth having.

[rice rocket]

My dealings with ABG have been great so far. I ordered a frame from RealCyclist.com and UPS bent the derailleur hanger (something that's 45 bucks on their site). With one 2 minute phone call, a free replacement hanger was on the way.

YMMV apparently.

Also, I doubt ABG would note the damage and not include the photo. It's more likely the poster left it out because it didn't help his case.

[MadRocketSci]

Just for the checking I went to Merlin's website and it seems like they finally updated their site. Now only the Extralight and the XLM is available. Cielo, Aspen, etc are no longer listed.

The site is the same as it's been for a while. They have that annoying javascript news box that just takes the current date and sticks date - 1, date - 7, date - 11 , date - 17 days etc by the same old-ass "news" stories.

Like I said before, merlin is done making bikes...officially "suspended" according to bikyle.com and kinda confirmed by TK across the hall. I guess they reserve the right to bring back production in case carbon fiber turns out to cause cancer and shrink your wang.

Still plenty of options in Ti, thankfully, and if anyone wants an extralight, they can still get it, just won't say "Merlin" on it....

[avalonracing]

carbon fiber turns out to cause cancer and shrink your wang.



There it is in print! It must be true so spread the word!

(BTW- no carbon in this house. Wang is safe)

[oldpotatoe]

Thank you for the update. So you are saying it was the original owners of Merlin who left their employees in the lurch, not ABG?

BBD

Well, Merlin went out of business, was done, finished, kaput. Not sure what the original owners could have done, they had no money, no product, no factory..lots of debt. I think Litespeed offering most if not all of the Merlin people employment was a GOOD thing. They had to move to TN tho.

[BumbleBeeDave]

Well, Merlin went out of business, was done, finished, kaput. Not sure what the original owners could have done, they had no money, no product, no factory..lots of debt. I think Litespeed offering most if not all of the Merlin people employment was a GOOD thing. They had to move to TN tho.

. . . thanks for the perspective.

BBD