Legend V Classique TI

[corky]

Can someone explain the difference between the TI Legend and the TI Classique.

Is it double/triple butted tubing rather than plain gauge + a fancy fitting?

I don't find the website very clear.... maybe it's just me.......

[Smiley]

Its not just U I bet many dealers don't know the differences but let me give you a stab at it and somebody from the factory may correct me if I am wrong.

Both bikes share the same rear trianges, Stays and ST.
The Classique a GREAT buy BTW is a straight gauge main triangle frame
The Legend To is a double butted tube set as well Full Colorado concept tubing for the main traigle and with a frame size above 57 cm the TT is triple butted and Over sized.

Now what I don't know for a fact is if the ST for the Classique is straight guage now or CC double butted but that is minor.

I also think that Serotta for the larger riders or those wanting a stiffer frame in a Classique will now offer at No Charge the Aero Down tube on the Classique.

Have fun and if it was my frns I'd buy the Classique unless u were going to get carried away with paint and finishing options that are available with the Legend and NOT the Classique.

[dekindy]

The Classique offering does not include the patented pivot system on the rear triangle.

[spartacus]

The Legend To is a double butted tube set as well Full Colorado concept tubing for the main traigle and with a frame size above 57 cm the TT is triple butted and Over sized.



Is that so?

I had always believed Legend road frame was a triple butted offering regardless of frame size. My Legend CX is 'only' double butted in the down and seat tubes, to cope with the rougher usage.

One learns something new every day from the forum, unlike the website........ alas :rolleyes:

[forrestw]

The biggest difference to me looks to be the classique sports straight Ti seat stays vs the Legend's (beautiful) curved carbon stays. The Specs don't say the C'q's tubing is butted tho it does say Colo Concept (shaped) not sure what that's about.

It used to be the Legend was separated into the SE (triple butt) / GS (double butt), looks like the C'q now fits in the line where the GS used to be?

[corky]

The biggest difference to me looks to be the classique sports straight Ti seat stays vs the Legend's (beautiful) curved carbon stays. The Specs don't say the C'q's tubing is butted tho it does say Colo Concept (shaped) not sure what that's about.

It used to be the Legend was separated into the SE (triple butt) / GS (double butt), looks like the C'q now fits in the line where the GS used to be?

but the Legend has a TI stay option too......

I understand the paint options are pretty unlimited, but different levels cost more....correct?

Seems to me that the Legend is a big jump up in price for what is offered or the Classique is a bargain for what is offered....

oh and the Legend has an F3 fork as standard.....

it's all clear as....mud :confused:

[spartacus]

but the Legend has a TI stay option too......

I understand the paint options are pretty unlimited, but different levels cost more....correct?

Seems to me that the Legend is a big jump up in price for what is offered or the Classique is a bargain for what is offered....

oh and the Legend has an F3 fork as standard.....

it's all clear as....mud :confused:

I don't see the Classique as a bargain. It seems a significant purchase price for a quite a bit lower technical specification. I don't think it has the machined bottom bracket shell, the eccentrically machined head tube, the tapered main triangle tubes, the butting, but it looks as though it has the S bend chain stay profile (but not butted, I think?). The fork is different too. I personally don't care for the 'Classique' name either. It won't rust though :D
With all these features lacking it's makes a Moots road frame look quite good.
A Legend blows the Moots away.

[Smiley]

The biggest difference to me looks to be the classique sports straight Ti seat stays vs the Legend's (beautiful) curved carbon stays. The Specs don't say the C'q's tubing is butted tho it does say Colo Concept (shaped) not sure what that's about.

It used to be the Legend was separated into the SE (triple butt) / GS (double butt), looks like the C'q now fits in the line where the GS used to be?


only triple butted tube was the TT :)

Guys Serotta could never stock as many tubes as you would think.

[Ahneida Ride]

Legend has the traditional all Ti rear end option.
The ST Pivot is Dave Kirk's brilliant invention.

Do you prefer Blonds or Brunettes?
My response is Yes!

[Smiley]

Legend has the traditional all Ti rear end option.
The ST Pivot is Dave Kirk's brilliant invention.

Do you prefer Blonds or Brunettes?
My response is Yes!


Dave Kirk was not at Serotta when they did the ST pivot for the carbon stays. He was responsible for the Hors pivot which is a bit different than the carbon pivot. BTW the carbon pivot is locked on the Meivici and my guess is you can lock it for the Legend too.

Its just a BOLT Ray, nothing as NICE your your Bra NIPS :banana:

But maybe if you talk to Stan we can put Bra NIPS in place of the ST stay or Bolt :)

[spartacus]

BTW the carbon pivot is locked on the Meivici and my guess is you can lock it for the Legend too.



That would be the same rear end as the Ottrott GS.

[Smiley]

That would be the same rear end as the Ottrott GS.
yes but they locked it on the cheaper model but some folks I know locked it for the floating unit. I don't care for the carbon stays and prefer the look of the Ti stays.

[Pete Serotta]

There are differenences - as there are in custom....for a broad stroke - tubing specs/butting/drop outs/carbon fork and carbon rear (or ti)


They both work as does the CROSS one...depends on your specs, budget, and lusts. I have the least experience on Classique and most on LEGEND and CROSS ti.,,,, all of them work well if you are in the lust for any of them.

Feel free to send me a note on your personal customer wants and we will get to the bottom. THE LEGEND Ti (I Do not even have the st rear on this one) Is over 10 years old and is still the one that does most tours for me. A ST Ti is 5 years old and also works very well for my wants. They are custom to me and my riding.

Depending on your budget the differences are there (butting vs non) St rear verses non, etc......... Just an isolated instance of tubing is just that- - it needs to be part of the design for your type riding, specs, and ride characteristics.


The question is always which one meets your needs for ride type, lust of frame, and smile needs. PETE :) :cool: :D




The Legend features a Colorado Concept 3Al/2.5V titanium platform to optimize ride performance. Colorado Concept swaged tubing in rider-specific shapes deliver performance-enhancing levels of drivetrain stiffness while maintaining the natural comfort of Ti. Tubes, stays and all small parts are swaged, butted and machined at our New York factory. All Serotta titanium frames are aligned to a tolerance 6X the industry standard.

Tubing
Only US sourced, seamless titanium get to become Serotta C4Ti Triple butted titanium. 3Al/2.5V titanium tubes are produced in-house to order in a wide selection of diameters while triple butting creates the lightest Ti tube set available without sacrificing strength. Manufactured-to-order tubes provide the ultimate in rider-specific performance benefits.

Stay
Serotta Composites ST Carbon with Titanium option

Fork
F3 Serotta Composites Carbon Fork

Geometry
Custom Fit. [learn more]

--------------------------------------------

Specs Summary
The Classique TI features US sourced PSTI 3Al/2.5V seamless, size specific titanium to optimize ride performance with Colorado Concept tapered rear stays to optimize rear wheel power transfer and handling. A range of material cross sections allows performance engineering tuned for the individual.

Tubing
PSTI Highest quality 3Al/2.5V titanium drawn into seamless tubing with various diameters and applications. Seamless tubes possess greater strength and durability and are ideally suited for oversized, cyclocross and mountain bike specific shapes and diameters.

Stay
PSTI Titanium

Fork
S3 Serotta Composites Carbon Fork

Geometry
Custom Fit. [learn more]

Weight
1,600 gm

[spartacus]

"Depends on your wants".

What does the OP want the frame for? He doesn't say.

Personally I don't like the look of a ti frame with just the carbon seat stay unit swapped in. Top and down tubes in carbon with the carbon seat stay unit looks more balanced in an Ottrott. Otherwise just stick with an all titanium look, or go all carbon. The HSG Supercomp is calling me more and more, but I must be strong as the tire clearance on those carbon stays just isn't (in my opinion) 'real world'. Oh I wish those stays were made for a big fat 28/ 30c tire.

[Pete Serotta]

Yes,,,sounds like we are both in trouble in 2011. That HSG supercomp would work for me,

The ti I uses MOST has the ti rear and I like the ALL ti personality. Others I know like the st but I will stick with the ti rear

"Depends on your wants".

What does the OP want the frame for? He doesn't say.

Personally I don't like the look of a ti frame with just the carbon seat stay unit swapped in. Top and down tubes in carbon with the carbon seat stay unit looks more balanced in an Ottrott. Otherwise just stick with an all titanium look, or go all carbon. The HSG Supercomp is calling me more and more, but I must be strong :)

[dd74]

BTW the carbon pivot is locked on the Meivici and my guess is you can lock it for the Legend too.
Doesn't the CDA have the carbon pivot? Can it also be locked? And what's the advantage of "locking" it?

[spartacus]

Doesn't the CDA have the carbon pivot? Can it also be locked? And what's the advantage of "locking" it?

No it doesn't. The CDA has steel chain stays. Only a frame with flexible titanium chain stays can have the pivoting carbon seat stay unit (a Legend, an Ottrott).

[fogrider]

Yes,,,sounds like we are both in trouble in 2011. That HSG supercomp would work for me,

The ti I uses MOST has the ti rear and I like the ALL ti personality. Others I know like the st but I will stick with the ti rear
My Legend Ti is all ti and I love it. to me, if you're going to call it "Legend Ti", it just doesn't make sense to use carbon?

[dekindy]

My Legend Ti is all ti and I love it. to me, if you're going to call it "Legend Ti", it just doesn't make sense to use carbon?

I found it interesting that Carl Strong chose titanium for the seat stays when he constructed a steel, titanium, carbon bike. The spine as he referred to it was composed of steel for the head and down tubes and chain stays and carbon for the top and seat tubes.

[oldpotatoe]

I don't see the Classique as a bargain. It seems a significant purchase price for a quite a bit lower technical specification. I don't think it has the machined bottom bracket shell, the eccentrically machined head tube, the tapered main triangle tubes, the butting, but it looks as though it has the S bend chain stay profile (but not butted, I think?). The fork is different too. I personally don't care for the 'Classique' name either. It won't rust though :D
With all these features lacking it's makes a Moots road frame look quite good.
A Legend blows the Moots away.

Really? How so?

Carbon, butted tubes, thick at the ends for welding ease? a Pivoted rear?

Please describe the 'features' that actually make for better ride characteristics, not something from the marketing department.

Expensive tho-$5200 frame and fork.

http://moots.com/our-bike/road/vamoots-rsl/overview

$4000 for the frame, for reference. Vamoots and CR is $2900.

Have sold both, btw-Serotta for about 13 years, Moots for 10.

[corky]

What options are available ???

BB30? Inset Headset? extended seat mast? Chain pip?

If not why not?

This is the sort of info that should be on the website IMHO

[Pete Serotta]

What options are available ???

BB30? Inset Headset? extended seat mast? Chain pip?

If not why not?

This is the sort of info that should be on the website IMHO

And the value is questionable to many = me included. pete


If you want them, there are plenty of "off shore" made frames that offer them, And if they give you a smile and like it - - - do it!

THis is not meant to start a fight for inset headset nor extended seat mast have a "ride value" for the vast majoriity of riders. (If might have a want but not a performance if frame fits!

. As to BB30...again preferernce for I know of some big guys who saw no value in them. They are stiffness if your carbon frame design needs added stiffness because of lightness and/or design.

[corky]

Thanks for clearing that up Pete... I wasn't trying to start a flame war just rather clumsily asking for Serotta's views on these 'trendy' options.

[Pete Serotta]

I have been dropped over time by folks on the bike with them or just with a steel frame :crap: . THere is passion by some, but the exteneded, cut mast has caused some breakage for some.......have two friends on large frames have problems. BB30 I have seen no one with problems but also none with advantages.

Have a wonderful holiday season. I did not feel you were "stirring the pot". pete


Thanks for clearing that up Pete... I wasn't trying to start a flame war just rather clumsily asking for Serotta's views on these 'trendy' options.

[oldpotatoe]

I have been dropped over time by folks on the bike with them or just with a steel frame :crap: . THere is passion by some, but the exteneded, cut mast has caused some breakage for some.......have two friends on large frames have problems. BB30 I have seen no one with problems but also none with advantages.

Have a wonderful holiday season. I did not feel you were "stirring the pot". pete

"Creaky" 30.

'I've cut the seatmast 3 times and it's STILL too short'

[Pete Serotta]

"Creaky" 30.

'I've cut the seatmast 3 times and it's STILL too short'


I would keep cutting and it would still not be long enough,, :beer: Pete

[beungood]

Legend has the traditional all Ti rear end option.
The ST Pivot is Dave Kirk's brilliant invention.

Do you prefer Blonds or Brunettes?
My response is Yes!

What bikes have the ST pivot now? Is the stay rear end the only one that can have the pivot?

You forgot redheads

[beungood]

Dave Kirk was not at Serotta when they did the ST pivot for the carbon stays. He was responsible for the Hors pivot which is a bit different than the carbon pivot. BTW the carbon pivot is locked on the Meivici and my guess is you can lock it for the Legend too.

Its just a BOLT Ray, nothing as NICE your your Bra NIPS :banana:

But maybe if you talk to Stan we can put Bra NIPS in place of the ST stay or Bolt :)

What do you mean by locked?

[Pete Serotta]

What do you mean by locked?


THe Meivici does not have the moving pivot as an option. The rear tube triangle is not the same for Ti has ti in some of rear triangle.

[Fixed]

it's the tubing damn it
cheers
http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=32333