OT: Concept2 Rowers

[crownjewelwl]

Seems like there are a some forumites that use these in the winter. I was hoping peeps could comment on the differences between D and E models. Thanks!

[Louis]

I have a Model C so I won't be of much help, but I seem to recall that the biggest difference is that one (I think the E) has bigger and beefier supports and is perhaps slightly better for super-heavy usage. There may also be some differences in the standard PM (Performance Monitor aka computer system) that comes with each one. I'm sure the C2 web site has the details.

As far as the supports goes, I think the C supports are similar if not identical to the D and they are way more than adequate for individuals. Way back when only the C's were available the collegiate and club racers used them here with no real issues that I know of.

If there are significant PM differences, and the E has more options that allow for more interesting "racing against yourself (memory of previous rows) or others via the web" then I might lean toward that. As far as the structural stuff goes, IMO the D is fine.

I'm doing this by memory, so I may have some details off. Check the C2 web site. (Or check the C2 forum - I'm sure the question has been asked there before.)

Good luck. I'll be using my Model C later this PM.

Louis

[thegunner]

Seems like there are a some forumites that use these in the winter. I was hoping peeps could comment on the differences between D and E models. Thanks!

former collegiate rower checking in. as far as differences: honestly... very little. i think they said the flywheel is slightly quieter (but i can't tell the difference). they redesigned the rear legs into a triangle, but i don't know for what purpose aside from marketing hype.

you can get either the PM3 or PM2 for either one, so that's not really the difference (i do like the PM3 more though, and it's well worth the money). the d's aren't exactly fragile, as my school had the same 70 or so ergs for the past 5 years (with many many high watt efforts on them) and as long as you're not abusive, they stay pretty buttery. my opinion is to save your cash, get the D, and spring for a PM3.

[crownjewelwl]

There's a comparison video on the site...

This is what happens when you use and iPad without flash!!

I'm sick of running on the treadmill and my winter cycling experiment hasn't quite worked out. Hope this does the trick.

[AngryScientist]

former collegiate rower checking in. as far as differences: honestly... very little. i think they said the flywheel is slightly quieter (but i can't tell the difference). they redesigned the rear legs into a triangle, but i don't know for what purpose aside from marketing hype.

you can get either the PM3 or PM2 for either one, so that's not really the difference (i do like the PM3 more though, and it's well worth the money). the d's aren't exactly fragile, as my school had the same 70 or so ergs for the past 5 years (with many many high watt efforts on them) and as long as you're not abusive, they stay pretty buttery. my opinion is to save your cash, get the D, and spring for a PM3.

also collegiate rower here, i concur in full with the above.

[crownjewelwl]

Looks like the monitor options are now PM3 and PM4. And from what I gather, the biggest differences are HR monitoring (which I already have) and rechargeable battery with the PM4.

Thanks again for the input!

[Louis]

I'm sick of running on the treadmill and my winter cycling experiment hasn't quite worked out. Hope this does the trick.

As I've said here before, rollers inside turn my brain to mush. I find the erg to not be as bad, if only because I associate the bike with riding outside, but I've never been an on-the-water rower.

Psychologically I find rowing to be more challenging than cycling because during high-intensity efforts you have to continuously make individual decisions about how had you are going to push / pull. (At least I do.) On the bike pedaling is more of a "flow" thing due to the higher cadence, so I don't make an individual decision on each pedal stroke.

I think the C2 rowers are a great cross-training tool and would recommend one to just about anyone who can't ride much in winter.

Have fun!

[stephenmarklay]

My gym has one each. I can't really tell the difference. The PM3 is much nicer however and the PM4...

[thegunner]

My gym has one each. I can't really tell the difference. The PM3 is much nicer however and the PM4...

oops, yeahhh pm3 and pm4 (+1 on any of the numbers i mentioned haha)

[happycampyer]

The E is a little quieter than the D, but not by much (having started on a Model A, which sounded like an airplane taking off, the difference between the D and E is infinitesimal). Also, to make the E more friendly for gyms, the rail is higher off the ground. If you have or get a model D, one nice upgrade is to get the newer handle.

[Louis]

one nice upgrade is to get the newer handle.

I've thought about retrofitting the new handle on my C, but kind of like the idea of the wood, compared to plastic. However, if it's a good reason I'm willing to change (I did move up to indexed shifting ;) ).

For hand feel, position, angle, etc, how would you compare the two handles?

(Now that I've started to row again the calluses are starting to build up...)

Thanks
Louis

[thegunner]

I've thought about retrofitting the new handle on my C, but kind of like the idea of the wood, compared to plastic. However, if it's a good reason I'm willing to change (I did move up to indexed shifting ;) ).

For hand feel, position, angle, etc, how would you compare the two handles?

(Now that I've started to row again the calluses are starting to build up...)

Thanks
Louis

the older wooden handles are like a revelation to me, they simulate an actual oar like nothing else. with the newer rubber gripped ones, the shape encourages you to pull up towards your chest (and to pull in a bit further than the traditional range of motion) << or maybe i just do this to cheat the splits. different strokes (har har) for different people i guess, i hate the newer handles.

[akelman]

Another former collegiate rower (Go Badgers!) who agrees with much of what's been said here: there are at best very small differences between the latest C2 models. And I, too, think the wooden handle might as well have been fashioned from pieces of the True Cross.

[97CSI]

And I, too, think the wooden handle might as well have been fashioned from pieces of the True Cross.Maybe that's why I always row 'religously' when on one. Great warm-up machine for squash.

[bobswire]

For what's worth,I was not a college rower but I do use a Kettler Kadett and enjoy the full body workout I get. I wanted the Kadett because it mimics the
stroke of rowing.
On my bike rides I often stop by San Francisco Rowimg Club at Lake Merced, BTW they use a Concept 2 for training and warm up.

[happycampyer]

I've thought about retrofitting the new handle on my C, but kind of like the idea of the wood, compared to plastic. However, if it's a good reason I'm willing to change (I did move up to indexed shifting ;) ).

For hand feel, position, angle, etc, how would you compare the two handles?

(Now that I've started to row again the calluses are starting to build up...)

Thanks
LouisI think it's just a matter of personal preference. I switched the handle on my model C from the wooden one after rowing on D's and E's at the gym. I bought a model A back in 1983, and had a model B for many years at one point, so I have spent a fair amount of time with the straight handle. I think that at the catch and the finish the angle of the new handle feels more comfortable, since you're pulling in a straight line (the motion isn't really like sweeping or sculling).

I actually just sold my model C last week (crownjewelwl--you probably know JJ who works part-time at Signature). I think if I decide to get another erg for the home, I'm going to try to track down a Rowperfect (http://www.rowperfect.com.au/index.html). It looks like it mimics the sensation of the boat running out underneath you better. I have always been tempted to get a set of the C2 slides (https://www2.concept2.com/VIA/viaImagePageIndex.jsp?row=4&pgName=viaListProducts.jsp&searchText=Accessories&modifier=Accessories&reqTitle=TITLE_VIAUSERDOCLIST&newWindow=Y
), but the whole thing takes up too much room.

[slowandsteady]

Anyone here using the Water Rower series of rowers?

[Sheldon4209]

Anyone here using the Water Rower series of rowers?
Yes, I have used one for 8 years. I went to a local fitness store to buy a spin bike and came home with the Water Rower. It has been a good investment as I would rather row than ride indoors.

I have only rowed a Concept for a few minutes so I can't compare the two. I do like the Water Rower because of the finished wood, it goes well in my family room and it is quiet enough to watch tv or talk on the phone while rowing. The water makes a nice form of resistance. Probably the biggest downfall of the Water Rower is the monitor. Mine quit a couple of years ago but I row without it and don't plan to replace it.

[CaptStash]

Another oarsman checking in. I rowed compettitively through college and on up until 2008 and used to train on the "erg" when I was at sea. I have somewhere north of 10 million meters on the things, and like Happycamper started with a model "A" and worked on up. I train on a Model "C" pretty consistently and am happy with it. I don't really see the need to move up to a Model D. The Model E appears to be aimed more at the health club crowd and designed to be a bit more bulletproof. I can't imagine needing it unless you have flexibility issues and could use the advantage of having the machine higher off the ground.

All of that said, I can not urge you strongly enough to go find a rowing club and learn at least the basics of rowing if you intend to train consistently on the rowing machine. Done correctly, rowing is the most effective cardio workout (lots of studies blah blah blah) and shouldn't cause injuries. Done wrong it's a blown-up back waiting to happen. (Been there done that.)

Anyway, good on you and let us know how you make out.

CaptStash....

PS: I prefer the wooden handle too. I don't get the idea behind the reverse angle of the plastic thing. But I'm one of those annoying lightweight sculler guys.

[dekindy]

How about the H2O Fitness rowers, specifically the RX-850 LTD that my LBS's fitness division has for $859?

[Sheldon4209]

How about the H2O Fitness rowers, specifically the RX-850 LTD that my LBS's fitness division has for $859?

I rowed on the H2O Fitness rower at your LBS's fitness division for a couple of minutes. It is similar to the Water Rower with using water for resistance. The Water Rower costs some more but has a nice finish and appearance. The Water Rower site can get you to a dealer close to where the H2O Fitness is sold.

[happycampyer]

How about the H2O Fitness rowers, specifically the RX-850 LTD that my LBS's fitness division has for $859?One of the reasons that the Concept II rowing machine is so popular with competitive rowers is that is was designed and built by Olympic oarsmen (Dick and Pete Dreissigacker) to mimic the rowing motion and to be able to withstand constant hammering for years by elite heavyweight rowers. They have improved the machine over the years, and the CII has become a mainstay in most boathouses across the country.

The water rower you linked to is probably fine for general fitness, but just looking at it, two things immediately jump to my mind: it is too short to mimic the extension at the "catch" (beginning of the stroke), and the point of attachment is too low. So even if the water resistance provided better feel, the machine wouldn't allow me (let alone a 6'7" heavyweight) to row with the proper motion.

Another alternative that isn't as widely used as the C2 but that I would consider is the WaterRower (http://www.waterrower.com/waterrower.php). It was designed by a National Team oarsman, and looks to be well-made (in the US), well thought out, attractive, and stands up to save space when not in use.

If you were looking to spend $800+ for a rowing machine, I would stick with the C2 or the WaterRower (the latter especially if space, noise, appearance, etc. are an issue).

[bobswire]

While researching rowing machines I came upon this site which led me to trying the Kadett .
I wanted something that was easy to move around and mimic actual rowing motion.

http://www.bestcovery.com/best-rowing-machine-overall

[crownjewelwl]

thx for all of the input. i think i'm gonna go with the model D with the pm3 for now. i figure i can upgrade to the pm4 if i really get into it.

i went for a ride today in 30 degree weather this morning. the stream of snot comin out of my nose confirmed the need for this investment.

[William]

Former collegiate rower and dry-land Erg competitor here.....

Lots of good info presented here. If you search the forum you'll find Concept II threads come up almost every Winter. Not much more I can add other then you don't tend to see them come up used to often since those who buy them tend to keep them.

When I was competing at OSU the current model back then was the B but there were still a few A's floating around the boathouse. My coach actually let me take one of the A's home with me for the summer so I could keep training. I bought a Model C for myself and I still have it and use it regularly. I'm 6' 6" and a lean 255 - 260 and it's taken my abuse over the years. And I bring it down to the gym and use it as a torture device for our MMA and Muay Thai fighters to help build up their cardio through interval and steady state training. Through all this it's still as smooth as the day I bought it.

If I could have only one piece of training equipment, the C2 would be it.



William

[happycampyer]

In my earlier post I was thinking of the model C when I mentioned switching handles— the D and E both have the newer handle. If anyone has a D or E and wants a wooden handle, let me know.

[happycampyer]

I recently noticed that Concept 2 came out with a "dynamic" rowing machine. The idea is that the slide and handle are connected so that the slide moves instead of being stationary, which better simulates the feel of rowing on water.

Concept2: Dynamic Indoor Rower (http://www.concept2.com/us/indoorrowers/dynamic_home.asp)

The C2 dynamic rower has a similar motion to the Rowperfect rowing machine that I mentioned above. Very cool.

[Louis]

I noticed that on the CII site. Since I'm not an on-the-water rower it doesn't mean that much to me, but next weekend I'm going to the St Louis Indoor Rowing Championships (to watch / hang out, not to compete) and I'm hoping that there will be one there so I can try it just for fun. They've only just started production, so I don't think there are many out yet.