OT: HOA's gone wild

[Wilkinson4]

I got home tonight to a lovely letter of noncompliance complete with a picture showing the violation. Gasp, a 1" gap was visible at the bottom of the garage door. The letter referenced this bylaw, "Garages. The doors of any garage located on a Residential Site within the Property shall be kept closed at all times except when an automobile is entering into or exiting from such garage".


I usually will leave the garage door partially open when I am wrenching to get fresh air in so it isn't a mechanical.

I have lived in this house for quite awhile and over the last year I have gotten more ridiculous letters like this than in the +20 year previous. My response cited freedom and HOA laws not being synonymous along with other tidbits including "Are you serious"...


Who else has stupid HOA stories?

mIKE "Serenity now"

[Louis]

Open the door completely and park the car halfway in, halfway out. They don't say how fast it has to be moving as it's entering or leaving.

[Wilkinson4]

They say I must comply by the 26th! Now I know exactly what I am going to do. I'll post a picture!!!

mIKE

[AngryScientist]

the in-laws live in a complex riddled by ridiculous power hungry fools like you describe. some of the rules are just silly. you should see the list of "do's and dont's" for "allowable" holiday decorations.

[Dekonick]

Open the door completely and park the car halfway in, halfway out. They don't say how fast it has to be moving as it's entering or leaving.

26000 mph - rotation of the Earth... think thats right...

[Dekonick]

http://www.autopia.org/forum/hot-tub/125768-best-christmas-decoration-ever.html

How is this for decoration?

[BumbleBeeDave]

Open the door completely and park the car halfway in, halfway out. They don't say how fast it has to be moving as it's entering or leaving.

I really LIKE that suggestion! :D

BBD

[Steve in SLO]

Open the door completely and park the car halfway in, halfway out. They don't say how fast it has to be moving as it's entering or leaving.
And make sure to cover it with a blue tarp...nothing says HOA-compliant like a covered car.

[BumbleBeeDave]

. . . has way, WAY too much time on their hands. They need a hobby. Maybe you could get him/her interested in cycling? Take them for a ride . . . a, uh, one-way ride? :D :eek: :cool:

BBD

[lemania]

Our Township and many others bought into this business oriented generic rule book system. Scary stuff if you read it. Check your location below..........
My first violation was flat tire in the morning and a picture of the car with flat and a threat of 90 dollar fine if not fixed in 30 days from date of letter the next day. Not sent with registered mail of course due to fact they are BS ordinances. ......

http://www.municode.com/Library/Library.aspx

[onekgguy]

. . . has way, WAY too much time on their hands. They need a hobby. Maybe you could get him/her interested in cycling? Take them for a ride . . . a, uh, one-way ride? :D :eek: :cool:

BBD

Are you sure you want to do that? They'll probably be the one in the group ride pointing out every tiny stone and crack in the road.

Kevin g

[RPS]

What can they actually do to you? Did the letter state what their recourse is?

I’ve had communications with my HOA twice over a period of 20 years and the first time I responded very poorly because I allowed their notice’s threatening tone to get under my skin big time. The first time I was so angry over the injustice of an unfounded accusation and the condescending threatening letter that I wanted to escalate the confrontation. Instead of trying to defuse the issue I mostly wanted an excuse.

Much later after I had cooled off I realized I was almost provoked by morons into doing something stupid, and promised myself next time I would stay calm no matter what. Years later I heard from them over a different issue and I simply ignored them. My fence replacement must have not been that important because they didn’t contact me with a second notice. What were they going to do, make me take it down because it was identical to the previous one except for the rotten wood? Give me a break. :crap:

[garysol1]

we got "the" letter for putting our trash cans out 2 hours earlier than allowed :no:

[Louis]

On the other hand, being able to enforce what most folks in a subdivision want is a useful thing.

One guy in our subdivision bought an empty lot on a relatively important corner (ie lots of visibility for passing traffic, not in an isolated corner) and has signed an agreement with a local cell phone tower company to put up a huge tower, a support building and a big fence around the whole thing. The county zoning board ruled in our favor to stop it, but the cell-co lawyers said that the Telecommunications Act was in their favor and threatened the county with a federal lawsuit. The county caved and now we are fighting it ourselves in a number of jurisdictions.

We also hired a guard service and posted them at the only entrance to keep cell-co trucks out. We do have some ability to control who uses our roads, but have to enforce that ourselves. The whole thing has been going on for two years and still no end in sight. Of course the existing houses and property owners right next to the lot in question would be affected big time, but those farther away are less keen on spending money to defend against it. Yesterday we received a letter from one of the homeowners who seems to be very much against spending more money fighting this so it looks like the subdivision may be splintering.

All in all a bad scene.

[Clydesdale]

A garage door skin. Let them figure that out.

garage poster (http://www.amazon.com/7-Avenija-2001-Photo-Banner/dp/B002ZY0040/ref=sr_1_12?ie=UTF8&qid=1292645038&sr=8-12)

[Louis]

A garage door skin. Let them figure that out.

They should make one of those with a bunch of pot plants and grow lights.

That would garner some interest.

[Ralph]

The reason the HOA wants to get a written request to replace a fence with an identical fence, then give automatic approval, is because it's important they have on file the request. Otherwise, if someone were to put up a fence objectionable the HOA would not have ability to have them tear it down because of non approval....if they don't make everyone go thru the approval process. You can't enforce HOA documents if you don't treat everyone the same. And it's important to protect your documents. I'm on a HOA board and it's a thankless job, with most residents not understanding the legalities of why things are done a certain way. Usually determined by state HOA law.

I agree....cracking the door 1" no big deal.....or even having it open once in a while no big deal. And some HOA officers get carried away. In our development, we have a strong HOA, and whenever an issue comes up, I try to difuse it by saying to all concerned "Lets get out the documents and see what they say". Then we go with what documents say. Not what a board member says. Most understand that approach.

[fourflys]

I agree....cracking the door 1" no big deal.....or even having it open once in a while no big deal. .

once in a while? I open my door whenever I'd cleaning the car or working on the bikes... HOA can kiss my arse if they think I'm going to stop... HOA's are useless and ridiculous... IMHO

[bike22]

i live in the city. aint none of that funny business here.

[Kirk007]

I don't trust people enough to live anywhere that has HOAs. Too many judgmental interfering folks in our society for my taste.

[John M]

i live in the city. aint none of that funny business here.

+1. I am so glad I don't live in a suburban subdivision.

[buldogge]

I'm just happy you guys said it first...I was holding my tongue. :)

-Mark in St. Louis

+1. I am so glad I don't live in a suburban subdivision.

[Wilkinson4]

Believe me I wish I didn't. If I could I would be on a acre or two!

mIKE

[Louis]

Believe me I wish I didn't. If I could I would be on a acre or two!

#1 benefit - I can stand at any point around my house and pee without worrying about anybody seeing me.

Very handy at the end of a ride ;)

[Peter B]

#1 benefit - I can stand at any point around my house and pee without worrying about anybody seeing me.

Very handy at the end of a ride ;)

Tom Russell, on Indians Cowboys Horses Dogs, with his humorous reinterpretation of the West in "The Ballad of Edward Abbey," relays the environmentalist hero’s rant against suburbanization: "If you can’t piss in your own front yard / You’re living too close to town."

Think I'll die happy on these 10 acres...

[Wilkinson4]

Part of my e-mail response to the HOA manager:

"Is this so egregious a violation that it warranted a threatening letter, not to mention the waste of the paper it is printed on? When I am working in the garage, I will sometimes leave the garage door cracked open at the bottom to let fresh air in. Being a freedom loving American, I feel this is a right I should be able to enjoy but apparently freedom and HOA laws are not synonymous."

mIKE

[Louis]

To quote Rush (the band, not the idiot): Conform or be cast out.

Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lu9Ycq64Gy4

[1happygirl]

Never understood them until a friend explained how they did everything through the HOA. The HOA in their case was supposed to administer and pay all dues / bills. Long story short, they mismanaged ? (being kind here) and for a while, the peeps were under the cloud of having their utilities cut off. Board was thrown out with future threats of criminal malfeasance pending further investigation. After utilities already being paid, but not paid to utilities companies (if you know what I mean), it was a big mess.

Ah, the country life. That was enough to convince me I like being responsible for my own stuff. So many horror stories over the years. Never, ever. My friend is now on the board and the things they are finding out....

[znfdl]

I am glad that live in a HOA that charges $24 per year. Their oversight is proportional to the annual fee.

[Ray]

Did you READ the HOA agreement when you bought your place? If not, no complaints. If so, is what they're citing you for COVERED in the agreement? If so, no complaints. If not, complain like hell and don't comply. I have decided not to buy a couple of places in the past because the HOA regs were too restrictive. The place I live now they're a bit more than I like in some areas, but I can live with them. And they take care of all of the exterior maintenance, snow shoveling, gardening, gutters, etc, etc, etc, so I'm more than happy to pay the monthly fee. ECSTATIC in fact. Hence, I signed the damn thing. If you signed it, you get to live with it.

Man, people around here don't like even the SMALLEST form of government. How did you get along with your parents when you were kids?

-Ray

[zap]

I don't trust people enough to live anywhere that has HOAs. Too many judgmental interfering folks in our society for my taste.

Agreed.

[Ralph]

Did you READ the HOA agreement when you bought your place? If not, no complaints. If so, is what they're citing you for COVERED in the agreement? If so, no complaints. If not, complain like hell and don't comply. I have decided not to buy a couple of places in the past because the HOA regs were too restrictive. The place I live now they're a bit more than I like in some areas, but I can live with them. And they take care of all of the exterior maintenance, snow shoveling, gardening, gutters, etc, etc, etc, so I'm more than happy to pay the monthly fee. ECSTATIC in fact. Hence, I signed the damn thing. If you signed it, you get to live with it.

Man, people around here don't like even the SMALLEST form of government. How did you get along with your parents when you were kids?

-Ray

Right.....Most HOA's that I have encountered are in developments where a developer in the past went to local government with a community plan asking local government to approve. It usually has entrance ways, common areas, perhaps drainage areas, lake fronts, docks, pools, tennis courts, recreation areas, etc stuff the local government won't maintain for private use, so a HOA is set up to handle that. You get rules. And the HOA has to pay to maintain those items, pay electric and water bills, reserve for vandalism and storm damage, pay liability insurance on common grounds, and on and on and on. At the same time you usually get restrictions on how you use your property (don't pull an engine out in the driveway, etc). Generally considered for the common good. But, it's true, sometimes they do get mighty petty. However....we have learned from experience, if you don't enforce your covenants and restrictions, you quickly lose the ability to enforce them. And our State law requires our HOA board to enforce them. And BTW....the residents can vote to change petty or overly restrictice rules if enough wish.

Best bet is too check out any place you're considering, and make sure it's for you. Read over their documents well before you sign them at closing....or whenever you accept them. That way no surprises. A HOA community not for everyone. I'm "picky" about my property, so I like rules that make neighbors take care of their property and restricts certain behavior (within reason). But not all agree with me, or take that much interest in their property. My next house probably will be where a HOA isn't needed. Not sure I want all the stuff we have now, nor wish to pay for it's up keep.

[Wilkinson4]

So, about reading the HOA guidelines. I must confess I haven't. My parents owned the house when the development was only 20-30 houses. They went through a divorce in 2003 and I bought the house so my senior mom would have a place to live. A few years later I moved into the house.

Not against the HOA, but the garage door thing is ridiculous IMO. I keep my house clean, and we have never had an issue but here is the back story.

About 5 years ago a H.S. was built less than 100 yards across the street. It was built on a parcel that was 15 acres too small by code, and right next to railroad tracks. We live in a cul-de-sac, and now the kids gather outside my front door smoking, selling and doing drugs, acting stupid, etc...

I have called the school and police. No results. I finally started to write the HOA several letters and I have not gotten any response.

Then I get the non-compliance letter. So, I am a bit peeved at the fact they are not doing anything to protect the community from the open campus, yet I leave a crack at the bottom of my garage door and I get a letter.

Yea, it is a little thing. And we all know HOA's serve a purpose and they can become corrupt with power sometimes. But, I have kids that have ripped a fence down, put trash in my mailbox, and sell drugs outside and unless they are caught in the act the police won't do a thing. And the HOA ignores us.

mIKE

[Ralph]

Mike....Submit in writing your concerns to whoever heads up your HOA, like you have to us, and at the next meeting of your HOA speak to the officers about your concerns. Maybe the HOA, representing your total households, can get a meeting with local plice, and get them to step up their presence. If you get involved, it will help your situation. It's tough when you have a HS that close.

[ultraman6970]

Nothing like single home (even if its small or in a so so area), HOA is a waste in my opinion.

[bozman]

I am glad that live in a HOA that charges $24 per year. Their oversight is proportional to the annual fee.

Mine is $38 and is voluntary. If I don't pay I can't participate in Dumpster Day. It pays for holiday lights and the Fall leaf cleanup in public areas and that is it. We came to the burbs for the better schools. $38 beats private school, atmo.

[false_Aest]

http://x-files.wikia.com/wiki/Arcadia

werd

[BumbleBeeDave]

http://x-files.wikia.com/wiki/Arcadia

werd

. . . and I thought I had too much time on my hands for hanging around here! :rolleyes: :crap:

BBD

[Louis]

. . . and I thought I had too much time on my hands for hanging around here! :rolleyes: :crap:

I doubt they have a very high opinion of Lycra-clad guys with funny-looking jerseys... ;)

[Don49]

I spent ten years as a board member on a townhouse HOA, and it was a good experience overall. The typical board member is there as a well meaning volunteer and not to unnecessarily hassle the other owners.

In my experience, chicken sh*t issues like a partially open garage door are almost always reported by an immediate neighbor. Best defense there is to know and try to befriend your close neighbors. The board members don't drive around looking for violations IMO, there's too much budget and maintenance stuff to attend to.

As far as funny HOA stories, one does come to mind, this being the Christmas season. Our HOA president decided it would be fun to hold a contest for the best Christmas light decorated townhome. I had a bad feeling about this, but the contest was held with the winner getting a $25 gift certificate. Come April our prize winner had not removed his Christmas lights, in violation of the CC&R's. IIRC we eventually had to fine him $40 in June to get the lights down. Merry Christmas to all.

[Louis]

In my experience, chicken sh*t issues like a partially open garage door are almost always reported by an immediate neighbor.

I agree. I'd guess that there is more going on behind the scenes.

Only a truly crazy person would have issues with a garage door that is cracked open 1". Unless the meth fumes are just billowing out from under the door, why would you even notice?

[Ken Robb]

#1 benefit - I can stand at any point around my house and pee without worrying about anybody seeing me.

Very handy at the end of a ride ;)

And it can be very good for your camelias too.

[Ken Robb]

Part of my e-mail response to the HOA manager:

. Being a freedom loving American, I feel this is a right I should be able to enjoy but apparently freedom and HOA laws are not synonymous."

mIKE

You are correct Mike. When you bought your property you agreed to abide by the rules of the HOA. I know from my 36 years as a real estate broker that during their due diligence period buyers didn't always read the documents that would govern their use of the property. Sometimes they were very upset when they ran afoul of the provisions therein.

Every set of such documents I have read (MANY) have provisions for homeowners to amend the rules if a majority of owners want them changed.

When people buy in controlled communities they should expect the rules to be enforced. It is possible for one homeowner to sue the HOA if the HOA does not enforce the rules.

A flip side of the story occured a few years ago. I had a lovely early 1920 vintage home for sale in one of our loveliest neighborhoods where demand always exceeds supply. I thought it would be an easy sale until the house across the street was painted purple. Many neighbors complained about having to look at the "eyesore" and offered to pay for a repaint in a color more in keeping with the traditional look that made the area so popular. Unfortunately for the neighbors the owner said she thought the neighborhood needed "spicing up" and kept her purple house. The covenants governing this neighborhood had been allowed to expire so nothing could be done. We couldn't sell the house across the street so the owner rented it to a bunch of college kids who didn't help property values either. :rolleyes:

When the owner died her heirs had the house painted in earth tones to sell it.
I live in a condo and wish some rules were a bit different but over all I'm happy to give up some "freedom" in order to be protected from some weird (to me) things neighbors might want to do.

Of course if I lived on a few acres and could barely see my neighbors' homes we could all afford to be pretty "free". In most of San Diego and surrounding towns 1/4 acre is considered a pretty big lot so neighbors' activities and decor have quite an affect on each others' enjoyment of their homes.

[Dekonick]

There was a native american in Elkridge MD who used to have huge bonfires and beat drums late into the night. Drove his neighbors nuts... he claimed religious reasons... and was allowed to continue...

Funny as hell... as I don't live next to him. :beer:

[rounder]

There is a house in a nearby neighborhood that has lifesize dragon statuary in their yard. No idea what their neigborhood covenants are, but would not want those statues next to me. When we moved into our house about 25 years ago, we found after the fact that that the developer intended to build a large shopping center on the property. The neighborhood association rallied and determined that the developer had not done a proper traffic impact study. The delays killed the project and made the neighborhood better. I know that HOA rules can be stifling and stupid. But, for many the (stupid dumb) rules can help maintain sanity and preserve property values.

[Wilkinson4]

So, I received my second notice of non-compliance when my garage door was left open 2" at the bottom while I worked. This is a joke. We have owned this house for 22 years and we have received more letters in the last six months than in the previous 21.5 years!

1. Letter of violation due to a stack of bricks 2'x2' on the side of the house left during landscaping.

2. Letter of violation for paint condition after paint selection was submitted and approved by the HOA but the work had not started due to weather.

3. Letter of violation due to garage door partially open with a date to correct :crap:
4. Letter of violation due to garage door partially open with a date to correct :crap:

Just had to rant... Pretty irate right now over the whole thing.

mIKE

[Louis]

Bottom line, what can they do about it? Evict you?

[Wilkinson4]

Not really sure. The letter sites fines and legal action as well as suspension of rights to recreation facilities, suspension of member's voting privileges, and recordation of notice of noncompliance against the property.

I guess I am probably taking this too personally but when I have been a model neighbor for +21 years with no violations to getting 4 in 6 months time I have to wonder what is really going on.

I'll sell my house to some miscreants on purpose if they go down the path of legal action over my garage door. Errr, maybe not but I am just steamed right now.

mIKE

[oliver1850]

I'm going back to biting my tongue now.

[BumbleBeeDave]

. . . it sounds like a couple of different things may have happened . . .

--New person has taken over enforcement and is eager to prove they are serious, either to residents in general or to the HOA board. Have you checked with your neighbors to see if they are also being bombarded with paper harassment?

--Somebody has it in for you in particular. Anything you can do to find out who that individual might be?

BBD

[rugbysecondrow]

There are are a couple different approaches, I would try this one first. Find out who the person is who is sending the letter. Is she a bored housewife, a thumb twirling retired person, maybe an underemployed jerk, whatever it is, go talk to them. Pull out the charm, invest a few minutes into ego stroking, talking about grand kids, discussing the playoffs this weekend...whatever it is. Depending on how the conversation is going, I would bring up the letters and discuss how these things are typically dealt with in the neighborhood. I would also explain that you do mechanical hobbies in the garage so the door will be open from time to time. Phrasing it in a way that you would like to save them time ao they don't have to spend their time sending letters for that matter. These HOA issues are sticky because of the people involved, but because there are people involved you can play to that.

If building relationships with the person doesn't dull the knife some, then I would formalize an objection to the HOA. This might involve seeing if you are being treated unfairly, are these HOA standards being followed properly allowing enough time for you manage your property. I am sure an attorney to advise better than I on this part.

I hate HOAs, but I tend to think most problems are people related, so I almost always try that angle first, which is hard because my inclination to tell them all to f^%# themselves.

So, I received my second notice of non-compliance when my garage door was left open 2" at the bottom while I worked. This is a joke. We have owned this house for 22 years and we have received more letters in the last six months than in the previous 21.5 years!

1. Letter of violation due to a stack of bricks 2'x2' on the side of the house left during landscaping.

2. Letter of violation for paint condition after paint selection was submitted and approved by the HOA but the work had not started due to weather.

3. Letter of violation due to garage door partially open with a date to correct :crap:
4. Letter of violation due to garage door partially open with a date to correct :crap:

Just had to rant... Pretty irate right now over the whole thing.

mIKE

[Birddog]

Sounds like you have some enforcement type that likes to play "gotcha". If Rugby's tactics don't work, some "free" subscriptions to an assortment of magazines should do the trick. Porn mags are especially effective. You can get the forms from the mags at your local news stand.

[snah]

Sounds like you've got this guy running your HOA, "Nip it in the bud!"

[Fixed]

orwellian imho
cheers

[Wilkinson4]

Not sure if it is a neighbor... I live in a cul-de-sac where most of my neighbors have lived for a long time. I have some that leave their garage door fully open, even at night. I have talked to a few and they have all been hit recently with a violation of some sort. I would tend to agree with most of the violations. Faded paint, unkempt yards, etc. That is what the HOA is for, to keep that in check.

But I am talking about a garage door that is left 1-2" cracked once in awhile at different times, not every day. They are harassing me for something I do, not a violation related to the structure.

The community is rather large. And quite mixed.. We have lived here when the sub-division was first opened and homes were modest. Now we have homes in the community miles away that are +$500,000-$700,000.

My gut is telling me that it it someone over in the "nicer" area doing a random drive by. But who in their right mind would even care about a 1" gap left open at the bottom of a door? I don't get it.

At the end of the day I'll just have to comply and make sure I leave it shut. It's a sad tale and it really doesn't promote community imo. meh. I'm done.

mIKE

[Ken Robb]

To Pal Rugby: some HOA rules prohibit using a garage for anything but parking vehicles, some specifically prohibit workshops, auto repairs, and even car washing in the driveway so explaining why he leaves the door up may not help.

It would be wise to attend the monthly HOA meeting and see who seems to be running things. Are there committees for various duties and oversight? Do you want to run for the board to try and influence operations? (I thought not :) ).

Sometimes no homeowner want to be involved in Association work/enforcement so a management company takes it on entirely. They are VERY concerned about enforcing ALL the rules as they have fiduciary and professional responsibility to do so. They have to be able to prove that they were not lax or negligent in running things per the HOA Rules or they can lose their Dept. of Real Estate License.

Finally HOA Rules can be changed by a vote of all owners. FWIW, in my HOA it would be a lot of work to get a vote to eliminate a rule requiring doors to be closed but it would be easy for the Board of Directors to decide that "closed" meant within 3" of touching the pavement. Go to a meeting and see what's going on overall.

[William]

Tom Russell, on Indians Cowboys Horses Dogs, with his humorous reinterpretation of the West in "The Ballad of Edward Abbey," relays the environmentalist hero’s rant against suburbanization: "If you can’t piss in your own front yard / You’re living too close to town."

...


I feel bad you have to endure this. Some schmuck certainly has too much time on their hands. That being said, I have to agree with the above.

Now, I'm going to go take a leak in my front yard. :D



William

[Ray]

Is this you?

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5285/5333270987_3f49610644_b.jpg

They might have a case. :cool:

-Ray

[alancw3]

i have lived in many hoa type of communities and without fail it is the 80/20 rule. 80% pf the people go with the flow while 20% enjoy causing trouble. just the way it is unfortuneately.

[Hawker]

Is this you?

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5285/5333270987_3f49610644_b.jpg

They might have a case. :cool:

-Ray

LOL!!

Good luck Wilkinson4, use discretion but don't let the HOA get away with harassment.

[drewski]

Any escape might help to smooth
The unattractive truth
but the suburbs have no chance
to sooth the restless dreams of youth

SUDVISIONS in the shopping malls
in the high school halls
conform or be cast out

Neil Peart had this nailed

Thank god i grew up in New York, New York
The capital of American non-conformity

Walking the the 4/4 beat of suburban conformity/
car culture has caused a huge cultural divide in our country.

Our suburban lifestyle cuts people off one another
and forces everyone to spend 20% of their income
on automobile expenses. Its a huge trap.

[Wilkinson4]

OMG Ray. How did you find me??? I should post a pic, it is comical. Meh, not going to let this get to me.

mIKE

[1happygirl]

From the DFW Area:

Hailstorm, tornado. A lady on the news said she got an email from the HOA about the color of her shingles she was gonna replace less then 24 hours after. She said she was busy trying to keep her roof from falling in.
Story here:
http://www.wfaa.com/news/local/HOA-nudges-residents-about-rules-as-they-recover-from-hail-storm-119669869.html#
glad I don't own property there (or any HOA)

HOA nudges residents about rules as they recover from hailstorm | wfaa.com | Dallas - Fort Worth Local News

by JONATHAN BETZ
WFAA
Posted on April 11, 2011 at 10:40 PM Updated yesterday at 1:11 AM
PROSPER — An e-mail sent by a homeowners' association in Prosper is angering victims of Sunday night's thunderstorms.
Neighbors in the Preston Lakes subdivision worry that community rules outlining homes' appearance may slow their rebuilding from damage caused by the violent storm that pelted properties with golf ball-sized hailstones.
"You don't say that less than 24 hours after something like this hits you," said Cindy Stuver, who lost nearly half her windows to the hailstorm. "That's wrong!"
She and others are furious about the e-mail blast sent out by the local homeowners' association.
"This e-mail is to just make sure that everyone in our community is OK," HOA board member Shelly Van Blarcum wrote. The message went on to remind residents of the neighborhood guidelines that dictate homes' appearance — including the type of windows used and the color of shingles.
"Please check your CC&Rs [covenants, conditions and restrictions] regarding the requirements for shingles," the e-mail continued. "There are stipulations indicated in the CC&Rs that will help you with the minimum requirements when speaking with your roofing contractor."
Several storm victims scrambling to replace broken windows and patch roofs were infuriated by the e-mail message.
"At a time like this, I find it offensive somebody's going to remind me of the rules and regulations when I'm trying to worry about whether my roof is going to leak or fall in," Stuver said.
The Preston Lakes HOA is managed by Dallas-based SBB Management. Fred Shapiro, SBB's CEO, said the e-mail was sent by a volunteer board member trying to assist her neighbors. The e-mail even suggested a window contractor.
"It was not an attempt to harass," Shapiro said. "It was an attempt to help."
However, he notes that the neighborhood rules still stand, and board members simply didn't want to see storm victims radically change the appearance of their homes as they rebuild.
Homeowners agree to the rules when they move into the subdivision — including, Shapiro says, the requirement that any changes must first be approved by the neighborhood's architectural control committee (ACC).
Despite the storm, Shapiro suggested homeowners should still submit any repair plans to the ACC before they rebuild. He said the committee will speed up the review process.
"The idea is to make the process easier for them, not harder," Shapiro said.
The idea of submitting repair plans to his HOA angers homeowner Chris Johnson. He suspects his house will now require a new roof, and possibly waiting for his homeowners' association approval is an extra stress he says he doesn't need.
"It did strike me as odd that they would want somebody to wait and make sure the architectural committee approves whatever color shingle you were going to install," he said. "It's a little more control over a homeowner than I really want."
E-mail jbetz@wfaa.com

[Idris Icabod]

I got a $50 fine last year for cutting down a tree from a wash area behind my house. The branches were hanging over my pool and clogging my pool filter with leaves. I asked for 2 years that the community landscapers sort this out to no avail. So I cut the whole tree down, got the fine within 2 days of doing it. I appealed and told them that I suspected that vandals had done it (and hauled it away), no dice. $50 well spent. I just cut down another 2 trees that I believe are on my property but behind my back wall, I guess I will see what the HOA charge for those.

My buddy when I lived in PA had a long running fight (months and months) with the HOA about the red blinds in his window until the HOA threatened legal action at which point he told them that he didn't have red blinds and that perhaps they had mistaken his house for his neighbours who did have red blinds, his were the HOA approved white.

[johnnymossville]

HOA Nazi stories always get me a bit worked up, dunno why. I know you agree to their terms when buying, but still. Some of these people need to lighten up a bit and find another hobby.

[PoppaWheelie]

My little sister lives (God knows why) in one of these HOA governed areas, surrounded by people well past retirement with not much to do but golf and complain about trash cans not being lined up correctly at the curb on trash day. She's active duty military and leaves home for long periods of time accordingly. Despite her best efforts to keep the house up while away (she lives alone), things happen...broken branches, blown down fences, etc. She's been occasionally hit with fines and the typical crap, and the explanation to the HOA that she would have tended to matters if she had not been abroad risking her life have fallen on deaf ears. Crazy thing is that just about every house owned by these bozos has a ribbon on a tree out front and a "support our troops" bumper sticker on the car.

[Dave B]

HOA's often times do get things right, however a cracked open garage door seems silly.

I used to live in a neighborhood next to my HOA president and would get letters all of the time. I even worked (teacher) for Brother-in-law (principal) and she wrote me up all the time.

She would be as fake as possible when she saw me. Bitter old woman.

Our new place is also run by an HOA, however I have the president's kid in class and on my track team. They love how I teach her and coach her. I got the, "Whatever you want" speech earlier in the year.

I don't do anything bad to warrant their wrath, but we have violations all the time. Cars parked in the streets for weeks or months at a time. They are pretty lax and it is nice.

Hey if anyone wants to move there is a huge house at the end of our street for sale. 4 bedrooms etc. I'll invite you over for beer, bike maintenance, and IF brain washing.

[pitcrew]

The other year I received a second notice of non-compliance (along with a small monetary fine) because my trash can had been left out a few hours after the trash had been collected. Since it was my second offence during the calendar year I was given the fine.

I replied with a nice letter of my own stating that I didn't recall receiving the first notice, and that I was very concerned that someone was either stealing my mail or that the mail carrier wasn't delivering it. I asked for documentation verifying delivery of the original notice so that I could have the police and/or post master look into the situation for me. I did add that in leu of documented proof of delivery (of the first notice) an acknowledgement that the fine had been removed would be sufficient.

I never heard anything else about the issue again, and the fine disappeared.

[merlinmurph]

Bottom line, what can they do about it? Evict you?

Hit 'em where it hurts. They can hit you in the pocketbook and fine you. It's very easy to do, and if you don't pay, they'll fine you more and keep adding fines for more infractions. And if you never pay, they can attach a lien so when the property is sold, they'll eventually get their money.

Yup, been there as a board member of a condo association with some trigger happy enforcers. Overall, our small complex is very well managed, but if you piss off the wrong people..... :no:

FWIW, I'd never buy a house with any type of restrictions like this. That may sound counter-intuitive coming from a condo owner, but these types of rules are implied for townhouses/condos given the nature of the beast. When it comes to owning your own land and house, I would want no part of rules.

Back to the OP: How does one even notice a garage door open a few inches? I mean, that's just looking for stuff. Good luck with your battle, though, my money is against you. Sorry. Hope we hear otherwise.

Murph

[Ken Robb]

The flip side is when you live in a neighborhood of small parcels with no HOA or current CC+Rs (they often have a sunset provision) and a neighbor spoils your happiness by parking his 15 "collectable" cars up and down the street, paints his house purple and orange, and takes in 2 boarders for each of his 5 bedrooms. You might wish for rules that could be enforced.

[Ralph]

The flip side is when you live in a neighborhood of small parcels with no HOA or current CC+Rs (they often have a sunset provision) and a neighbor spoils your happiness by parking his 15 "collectable" cars up and down the street, paints his house purple and orange, and takes in 2 boarders for each of his 5 bedrooms. You might wish for rules that could be enforced.


I agree. The key is good up to date clear enforceable documents. No selective or subjective enforcement. In our subdivison of 128 homes, we've spent thousands keeping our documents up to date, legal, and clear. And complying with the 2007 revision of Florida HOA law. (In Florida, if you haven't updated to meet the 2007 HOA law provisions, you basically have no HOA documents) Anytime we have a dispute, we just get out our documents and see what they say. We don't look for problems, but we do enforce our documents. And it's not about some busy body's opinion, it's about what the documents say. And.....sure....our subsidivion looks nice. If you want to live like a slob, you probably wouldn't want to live here.

Our documents require our garage dooors to be closed. However....I doubt if anyone would complain about a neighbors 1" opening for ventilation when working in garage (or even if the door was completely open for a few hours.....I like light to work on my bikes). Common sense has to come into play sometimes. But if I were to get a letter saying my garage door was open a little too much, I would comply. Some of you cite example of HOA's gone wild....where the documents are probably selectively or subjectly enforced. That's not legal in Florida. Fight back on selective or subjective enforcement. Good HOA's add value to property, and are not overly intrusive. I like our rules.

[1happygirl]

I got a $50 fine last year for cutting down a tree from a wash area behind my house. The branches were hanging over my pool and clogging my pool filter with leaves. I asked for 2 years that the community landscapers sort this out to no avail. So I cut the whole tree down, got the fine within 2 days of doing it. I appealed and told them that I suspected that vandals had done it (and hauled it away), no dice. $50 well spent. I just cut down another 2 trees that I believe are on my property but behind my back wall, I guess I will see what the HOA charge for those.

My buddy when I lived in PA had a long running fight (months and months) with the HOA about the red blinds in his window until the HOA threatened legal action at which point he told them that he didn't have red blinds and that perhaps they had mistaken his house for his neighbours who did have red blinds, his were the HOA approved white.

$50!!!!. Hey, I.I. you got by cheap!!!! hahaha good for you.

oncw again seein the anger & stories glad I'm a no joiner

[jlwdm]

I attended the annual HOA meeting in the development I work at. The last 15 years I have worked and lived in golf developments with very strict design guidelines and great houses.

1happygirl, I have no problem with the notice that was sent regarding roof tile. We had someone replace some slate tile with a tile that looked like slate after a big hail storm two years ago - it was a $100,000 mistake. The process just needs to be a phone call and not hold things up though.

Design guidelines require slate or tile roofs, copper gutters and down spouts and so forth. Changing anything in landscape requires approval also. No cars visible from street (basically always in a garage), but no one is ever going to complain about a garage door being up an inch or two.

Jeff

[hiljentaa]

Never in my life would I live under an HOA. Nothing against those who do/people involved/etc. Just different strokes for different folks, I suppose. :beer:

[BengeBoy]

The flip side is when you live in a neighborhood of small parcels with no HOA or current CC+Rs (they often have a sunset provision) and a neighbor spoils your happiness by parking his 15 "collectable" cars up and down the street, paints his house purple and orange, and takes in 2 boarders for each of his 5 bedrooms. You might wish for rules that could be enforced.

+1

I used to work for a big company in a small community, and we would frequently recruit executives in from big cities out of state who were pleasantly surprised by the low price of rural real estate. They would go out in the country, buy a parcel, and put up a "dream" house.

At some point they would realize that they had no control over what went in next door or across the road -- a run down trailer, a pig farm, a junkyard, whatever. So they would scramble to protect themselves by buying the lot across the road. Then the lot next door. Then the lot across the way. Pretty soon their little country estate had grown and grown and it didn't look so cheap...

At one point, my wife inherited a very pretty 10-acre parcel of land in this area, and though we had once thought about using the land for a place to retire, or even just a weekend place, when we went to visit it we found that half the neighboring homes were nice, and half were trashed-out pits. So we decided to put it up for sale. We asked the broker how hard it would be to market the property, and he said, "Don't worry, usually all the neighbors in places like his hate each other, and they'll all want to buy the property to keep the other guy from getting it and trashing it up." Sure enough, we sold the property in a week to a neighbor...

[AngryScientist]

Never in my life would I live under an HOA. Nothing against those who do/people involved/etc. Just different strokes for different folks, I suppose. :beer:

i feel the same way.

[sc53]

Part of my e-mail response to the HOA manager:

"Is this so egregious a violation that it warranted a threatening letter, not to mention the waste of the paper it is printed on? When I am working in the garage, I will sometimes leave the garage door cracked open at the bottom to let fresh air in. Being a freedom loving American, I feel this is a right I should be able to enjoy but apparently freedom and HOA laws are not synonymous."

mIKE
I think you should have worked the word "patriot" in there somewhere. Otherwise, excellent response!
--a current HOA board member (rational variety-elected in a coup staged by rational homeowners vs. the control freak haters)

[William]

http://www.thewisdomjournal.com/Blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/restrictions.jpg

http://www.thewisdomjournal.com/Blog/homeowners-association-negatives/

Read, re-read, and re-read the rules again.

Home owner’s associations can ding you for everything from having a portable basketball goal to having too many weeds in your flowerbed. They can fine you for failure to water your lawn enough, line drying your clothes, having “unapproved” lawn furniture on the back patio, leaving your Christmas lights up past the approved date, not bringing in your trash can, parking on the street overnight, or just the simple act of hanging some wind chimes. If you’re going to voluntarily put yourself under the rule of an HOA, you better know the rules.

HOA’s for condominium buildings can bill you for your portion of a new roof, new paint job, new landscaping, new windows, resurfacing the parking lot, or almost anything else they decide (with or without your approval). Once the decision is made, you have very little recourse so read, re-read, and then re-read again the rules and procedures so you aren’t surprised....

[Wilkinson4]

OMG. The thread comes back!!! Well no news on the violation front. I have talked to the HOA manager about the kids from the H.S. that are loitering, littering and just being obnoxious. She was very helpful there.

As far as my garage door. I have been keeping it closed for the most part.

mIKE