OT: Retiree care in SF

[rcnute]

Stunning.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/17/us/17bcbenefits.html?_r=1&hp

Oh, sorry about the wrong forum--d'oh! :o

[eddief]

wish I was smart enough to have worked at a pensionable job. Now I just get to watch pensioners bring us to our knees.

[norcalbiker]

wish I was smart enough to have worked at a pensionable job. Now I just get to watch pensioners bring us to our knees.

I hear you loud and clear.

[LegendRider]

My in-laws both worked for the University System of Georgia. They are retired with lifetime healthcare, pensions and Social Security. Good gig! I had the poor foresight to work in the private sector.

[torquer]

A little perspective: I took a job at a government agency at one point in my career; within a month or so of my starting, I heard back from a private firm (where I had been previously employed) with an offer at 25% higher pay. This firm also offered profit sharing/year-end bonuses, and I had reasonable prospects of rising to a partner/principle position.
The public sector offered stability, somewhat fewer hours, more rewarding work that that being done by most private firms, and fairly generous benefits. (I also didn't want to walk out of a position after only a few weeks, so I stayed.)
So there's a trade-off, which many public-sector employees have made. Unfortunately, public-sector accounting standards appear to have facilitated politicians keeping these benefits "off the books" and vastly underfunding them, in there zeal to "balance" their budgets; now, as the saying goes, the tide has gone out and we see who's not wearing swimtrunks.

[54ny77]

what's to stop a municipality from simply not paying it?

[rugbysecondrow]

I am not certain what the pay is for a municipal worker vs. the cost of living in San Fran, but I can bet there is a bit of a disparity. This is often one of the benefits/enticements offered to hire and retain good workers. Often a worker will take better benefits and accept lower pay, so it would seem wrong for the municipality to then opt not to pay them what they are owed. It was, likely, a short sighted policy especially about the 5 year vesting for lifetime health ins.

I work for the federal gov and I think the benefits are pretty good.

[torquer]

what's to stop a municipality from simply not paying it?
There have been municipal bankrupcies, and there's talk of more in the current climate. Not sure where in the creditor pecking order retirees would stand.
In New York State, when the governor tried to put pressure on the public-employee unions, existing pension obligations were off the table from the start; they were practically (perhaps actually) enshrined in the state constitution.

[zap]

http://www.kellogg.northwestern.edu/News_Articles/2010/municipal-pension-systems.aspx

[97CSI]

what's to stop a municipality from simply not paying it?The law. Am guessing SF is like NJ and the federal gov't. Create programs and then steal the money meant for these programs to spend on their pet projects or to get re-elected. How is that the fault of those who have earned these benefits over the past 30-40 years of work?

[R2D2]

wish I was smart enough to have worked at a pensionable job. Now I just get to watch pensioners bring us to our knees.

I guess Social Security recipients are evil too. The pensioners haven't brought us to our knees. Those promising and managing the pensions have.
All a pensioner does is ask for what was promised.

[eddief]

those who receive 80% of their salary and full health are lucky, bankrupting municipalities, and raising tuition. i am sure there is blame to go around. look what we just committed your kids to today.

i'm not totally sure how SSI works, but I believe those who get it pay into it as they are working. don't think those who get 80% of their salary for life have actually paid into that amount????

[54ny77]

irony is many muni bonds wrapped by insurance co's (monolines), who are already bust.

yeah, good luck with that....

if one lives in an unincorporated area of a town or county, are there property taxes?

http://www.kellogg.northwestern.edu/News_Articles/2010/municipal-pension-systems.aspx

[rugbysecondrow]

those who receive 80% of their salary and full health are lucky, bankrupting municipalities, and raising tuition. i am sure there is blame to go around. look what we just committed your kids to today.

i'm not totally sure how SSI works, but I believe those who get it pay into it as they are working. don't think those who get 80% of their salary for life have actually paid into that amount????
SSI is managed by the Social Security administration, but is a direct appropriation from congress. This is different from the Social Secirity pension that is deducted from our checks. SSI is disability, but for those who are poor or who meet certain health criteria (blind for instance). The money from SSI is not the money set aside from our checks (at least not the SS portion).

[97CSI]

if one lives in an unincorporated area of a town or county, are there property taxes?If you are in NJ then you pay county taxes if you live in the county and school taxes (real estate) to the school district(s) you live within. We have the dubious honor of having the highest real estate taxes in the nation.

Also, in NJ, regardless of what our fat pig of a governor likes to say, other than the one payment of about $1.5B his predecessor made into the teachers' pension fund, the only other money ($12B+) paid into the fund in the past 10+ years has been paid in by the teachers. The state has conveniently skipped their 'state mandated' payments since the previous Christy (Todd Whitman) was governor and spent the money elsewhere. Not unlike funding for Social Security, which is now paid into the general tax revenues and spent in Iraq, Afghanistan, on the various pork-barrel projects, etc. Public pensions are at risk as the politicians spend the money rather than paying it into the pension funds where it should be going. Shades of Enron.

[eddief]

think at my age SS will come through just fine and then trickle down will save everyone else.

[97CSI]

think at my age SS will come through just fine and then trickle down will save everyone else.Unless they continue with this madness of cutting the SS tax by 2%. There ain't no free lunch. But that didn't keep the politicians from adding another $4T to our national debt today.

[cmg]

what will probably happen is those hired before 2009 who would qualify will be phased out/fired before they get to their 5th year when they would qualify for the free lunch. they'll have to sue to get their job back, take another 5 years. city will declare bankrupcy by then..... nothing in life has a guarantee.