Dented Sachs on ebay

[tim11]

What's the consensus on frames like this?

http://cgi.ebay.com/RICHARD-SACHS-ROAD-frame-fork-extras-Campagnolo-d-o-/230560492022?pt=Road_Bikes&hash=item35ae79e9f6

It's my size and I'm not opposed to springing for a repaint, but that top tube damage looks nasty. Even if it could be repaired, is it even worth it?

[jvp]

Maybe worth it as a rider, not so much to flip for profit.
Franklin frames in ohio will replace a main tube for ~$100, and respray w/ clearcoat for ~$270. They did my Mclean respray very well.

[nahtnoj]

Mentally remove the name "Richard Sachs" off the down tube.

Then what is a 35 year old frame with a dented top tube worth?

It may well have collector value, but RS himself has repeatedly opined that his early work should not be considered alongside his more recent efforts.

[rwsaunders]

The seller is a bit optimistic about the extent of the damage imho. Send an offer that you can live with.

Joe Bell if you have the time...$250/tube plus paint? Bilenky, Spectrum and others also have a good rep for restoration. If the frame fits, it's probably worth repairing.

http://www.campyonly.com/joebell/JBform_09.pdf

[Peter P.]

This frame comes from an era when even Richard himself has admitted he was new to the business and had not settled on his concept of geometry.

So, if you're looking for a Sachs that reflects the seasoned builder's ideas of how a bike should handle, this isn't it.

The top tube shows no rust which is a good indication of the overall condition of the frame rust-wise. Usually, sweat would collect under the top tube run of brake housing and rust would develop. If you replaced the top tube, you'd have to pony up for new cable guides as well.

That rear dropout is unusually worn, probably due to the relief groove milled into it. It might cause problems clamping a hub into the rear end so that it stays centered. Also, you're likely gonna have to spread the rear end to fit modern equipment. That frame is so old it may even be 120mm and as far as I know, spreading a rear spacing 10mm is not recommended.

Personally, I think the Buy It Now price is too high, even higher than what it cost new. I should know; I owned a Sachs from roughly the same era. If you really want that frame, wait until it's reposted without a BIN price, then bid low.

[PoppaWheelie]

$600-700 for a JB restoration....?? Bah. Not likely.

I have a '78 and it rides great. Nothing wrong as far as I can tell with Richard's early ideas about handling...even compared to the '04 Signature that I used to ride.

[tim11]

Thanks for all the insights. Yeah, I actually talked to erichie about it this afternoon and he offered to do the repair "if I really wanted to," but said the frame certainly wasn't anything to get too excited about. In reality, I'd much rather just order up a new frame from him than go in on a rough 30-year-old model, but scarcity makes the market go 'round, I guess.

[bike22]

top tube dents are nothing to be scared of structural-wise.

looks like a frame that has seen its share of use over the years.

i'd consider buying it for, say $200 and riding it as a beater/lockup bike or turning it into a fixed gear.

[e-RICHIE]

ya' see - this is why you should never believe what you hear or read on
a message board unless it's traceable back to the actual source via a
screen shot or the like atmo.

Thanks for all the insights. Yeah, I actually talked to erichie about it this afternoon and he offered to do the repair "if I really wanted to," but said the frame certainly wasn't anything to get too excited about. <cut>

i have been flying for the last 10-12 hours (and still am) and never wrote
these words or any at all to this effect atmo. there was a single message
to me about this auction and my reply was to email me in a week so that
i'd have a moment or three to catch up with my life after the 'cross natz.

ps

arrange disorder

:) :) :)
:) :) :)
:) :) :o

[tim11]

Ha - busted! Sorry about that. Just got carried away.

[rcnute]

Ha - busted! Sorry about that. Just got carried away.

***?

Ryan

[John H.]

That top tube is more than dented- it is absolutely hammered. That and the fact that it is 30+ years old. Maybe if you got it as a whole bike at a rummage sale for $50.
Unless you REALLY want to be able to say you own a Sachs- money would be better spent on a new steel frame by a reputable builder (not that E-richey is not reputable), but lots of guys out there that build a nice frame in a short amount of time.

[Louis]

***?

Ryan

Don't forget, it's the Internet. The truth doesn't really matter here.

[dave thompson]

Don't forget, it's the Internet. The truth doesn't really matter here.
It certainly wasn't someone's default position. I'm very disappointed; first that he stated what he did, second that e-RICHIE caught him and third that he's a forum member.

[slowandsteady]

Ha - busted! Sorry about that. Just got carried away.

*** - why in the world would you outright lie about something like this!?!?!? What purpose does it serve? What's the point? And here on this forum - shame on you! Unless of course the auction is yours or a friends and you are trying to lull people into a false sense of comfort buying this frame...

Thanks to e-richie for chiming in and taking a moment to weed out this blatant lie...it aint funny dude!!!

[bike22]

Mentally remove the name "Richard Sachs" off the down tube.

Then what is a 35 year old frame with a dented top tube worth?
this guy gets it. 100% spot-on.

[StellaBlue]

Mentally remove the name "Richard Sachs" off the down tube.

Then what is a 35 year old frame with a dented top tube worth?

It may well have collector value, but RS himself has repeatedly opined that his early work should not be considered alongside his more recent efforts.


You could put Jesus on the down tube, and that thing ain't selling.

[cnighbor1]

There is another Sachs on eBay Now and it is a better buy and no dents. Nearly one of 1st made
Where were you when I offered mine for sale five times to Serotta classified
Charles

[Dekonick]

Isn't the whole point of getting a RS frame to have a bike built by him for you?

Why buy sloppy (and I mean REALLY sloppy!) seconds?

For me, it would be more about the process of working with the builder and the wait... for the bike I lusted for.

Almost pulled the trigger on a RS... nice work and all... but the 5+ year wait was the kicker. Love my Bedford and only had to wait 4 months. :banana:

Hats off to Richard for chiming in... I am not sure why the OP decided to post what he did. :confused: To what gain?

Too many nice bikes out there to buy someone's sloppy seconds - damaged at that.

[handsomerob]

Ha - busted! Sorry about that. Just got carried away.

a couple guys already posted about this and I was going to just let that stand... but the more I think about this the more it bothers me... actually pisses me off a bit.

In what universe is it ok to completely fabricate something about someone in their chosen career field and then laugh it off as getting carried away?

You should excuse yourself from the forum.

[e-RICHIE]

Ha - busted! Sorry about that. Just got carried away.

getting carried away doesn't explain why you would attribute quotes and
a message from me that never ever came from me atmo. being sorry does.

[tim11]

This is a complete misunderstanding and I apologize for the confusion. Taking this off the board.

[Gothard]

I would ask 2 questions:
-Is it actually straight?
-Does it have any cracks?

If these 2 questions get a favorable answer, then I would ride it without a 2nd thought (if it were my size, which it isn't). It is still a Sachs, and my previous experience with his early work has given me a great riding bike.

[duke]

A complete misunderstanding? What is there to misunderstand? You flat out lied about speaking to Sachs and attributed a response to him that never was made.
Time for you to go back to wherever you came from.
duke

[mister]

Ha - busted! Sorry about that. Just got carried away.

somebody ban this clown.
don't even understand why he'd make that statement.
so glad erichie saw it and called him out.

[johnnymossville]

oops.

As far as the frame, it would be nice to make a knock around bike with spare parts, but not so much for the price.

[flickwet]

tis the season and all, but next time...

[flickwet]

tis the season and all, but next time...
...throw him to the sharks across the hall.

[e-RICHIE]

give him up to Richard...throw him to the sharks across the hall.


hey - that's not very nice atmo. the PM and reply to it originated there but words were put in my mouth and into quotation marks here. the OP clearly fabricated a pov and attributed it to me. what possible good could come of feeding his behavior? wasn't there some use or misuse of the term "libel" (or was it "slander"?) on that master's drug bust thread here 10 days ago? how are his actions on this thread much different? and while i am at it, if you (all) are going to cull feedback on those of us in the trade, please make sure it's accurate rather than conjecture, huh. lest you want information cached here forever to become a he said/she said, be prepared to back up your words and anecdotes with evidence that it's all true and factual. i'm glad i saw the dented rs frame thread and chimed in, because it's a perfect example of where these threads could go if left to the zealots atmo.

ps

arrange disorder

:cool: :cool: :cool:
:cool: :cool: :cool:
;) :) :)

[gdw]

"This is a perfect example" of a thread which has run its course and should be locked. Take the catfight/flogging off list.

[e-RICHIE]

"This is a perfect example" of a thread which has run its course and should be locked. Take the catfight/flogging off list.


what it is is a perfect example of a thread that should never have been a thread at all atmo. please make a mental note of how this played out and recall it whenever you read words or anecdotes attributed to someone else, especially if they appear in quotes, and uber-especially if they emanate from folks who've fabricated quotes here atmo.

i think it's more than fine to let it play out in public, here or anywhere, since it otherwise would have been cached forever as an untruth. don't lock out the truth; find a way to keep folks who make up quotes (and those who encourage same) from having access. were this practice to become routine, there would be no way to tell who really said what.

ps

arrange disorder

:D ;) ;)
;) :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
:rolleyes: :) :)

[texbike]

what it is is a perfect example of a thread that should never have been a thread at all atmo. please make a mental note of how this played out and recall it whenever you read words or anecdotes attributed to someone else, especially if they appear in quotes, and uber-especially if they emanate from folks who've fabricated quotes here atmo.

i think it's more than fine to let it play out in public, here or anywhere, since it otherwise would have been cached forever as an untruth. don't lock out the truth; find a way to keep folks who make up quotes (and those who encourage same) from having access. were this practice to become routine, there would be no way to tell who really said what.

ps

arrange disorder

:D ;) ;)
;) :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
:rolleyes: :) :)

I may not agree with you on a lot of items, but I am DEFINITELY in your camp on this one. It is our responsibility to preserve truth (as much as possible) in these discussions. Otherwise untruth can become hearsay, rumor, and then eventually (perceived) truth.

A good example of untruths becoming perceived truths on the interwebs is the whole "Colnago fitting" myth.

History can be easily re-written on the pipes if no one stands up and immediately corrects the in-accuracies or mis-truths.

Good on you Richard for slapping this down immediately.

I echo Mister's opinion that this clown needs to be banned. There can be no forgiveness for such behaviour.

TXB

[Pete Serotta]

Thanks for taking time to posts and share ALWAYS with us :beer: PETE



Hope the weather is warmer for your location at the moment instead of MASS. It is 24 degrees here in RALEIGH.

Leave Tuesday for St Louis to see daughter and grand kids for holidays..... (no cycling though)


PETE


ya' see - this is why you should never believe what you hear or read on
a message board unless it's traceable back to the actual source via a
screen shot or the like atmo.



i have been flying for the last 10-12 hours (and still am) and never wrote
these words or any at all to this effect atmo. there was a single message
to me about this auction and my reply was to email me in a week so that
i'd have a moment or three to catch up with my life after the 'cross natz.

ps

arrange disorder

:) :) :)
:) :) :)
:) :) :o

[Pete Serotta]

Both on this thread and the poster and/on contributor.


Yes I am very biased toward Richard and whatever is wanted by him will be done. AS to who thinks this is fun.. I hope the season goes better for you. PETE

He has my email and full respect.

[Mr. Squirrel]

nuts! nuck nuck nuck!

mr. squirrel

[Lifelover]

Ha - busted! Sorry about that. Just got carried away.


No problem!

I just talked to Sachs and he said "all forgiven" :banana:

[Mr. Squirrel]

No problem!

I just talked to Sachs and he said "all forgiven"


http://rottenrat.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/liar.jpg

[happycampyer]

what it is is a perfect example of a thread that should never have been a thread at all atmo. please make a mental note of how this played out and recall it whenever you read words or anecdotes attributed to someone else, especially if they appear in quotes, and uber-especially if they emanate from folks who've fabricated quotes here atmo.

i think it's more than fine to let it play out in public, here or anywhere, since it otherwise would have been cached forever as an untruth. don't lock out the truth; find a way to keep folks who make up quotes (and those who encourage same) from having access. were this practice to become routine, there would be no way to tell who really said what.

ps

arrange disorder

:D ;) ;)
;) :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
:rolleyes: :) :)Another relabel job (atmo). :)

[William]

i taught e-richie how to ride a bike. he was constantly riding that tricycle around the neighborhood chomping on twizzlers. There were no quick releases on his bike so he was safe. nut nut nut!!!

mr. squirrel


~Suuuure~ :rolleyes:




William :)

[Mr. Squirrel]

http://cache0.bigcartel.com/product_images/1728005/Eff-Off.jpg




William :)


please ban mr. william. the nut is insulting me.

mr.squirrel

[Pete Serotta]

please ban mr. william. the nut is insulting me.

mr.squirrel :fight: :fight: