'VCOT' serial#? Theft Recovery? a full year later in Az? [Archive]

bwa

12-08-2010, 11:19 AM

I can't provide photos of this beautiful piece yet, or even accurate measurements until late tomorrow, but I've recently acquired a very nice titanium example in what seems to be about a size 52-53 (complete) bike that's in great condition. A few years back I was able to ID the last Serotta I had by chatting briefly with those fine CS folks in Saratoga Springs, but this bike's earlier date of manufacture procludes it from such easy record access, as the build-sheet e-file only goes back to '05, I am told.

The top tube's model decal is nearly invisible (intentionally removed?), but I can make out a vague/faded capital 'C' as the initial letter in what seems long enough to MAYBE be "Colorado". The frame material is obviously titanium, as indicated by its fully naked appearance (and factory sticker), and I'm familiar enough with some areas of Serotta, and their models, to recall that there was a Colorado Ti back in the late nineties.

Also, this one shows nice finish work (CONCAVE ends) in the rear drop out area, at the termination of the chain/seat stays, which is NOT what I'm seeing in photos of the Colorado Ti. In addition, it takes a quill-type stem (though its front end currently sports an adaptor w/ an Easton.) This must speak more to its year/vintage than to its specific model.

Naturally I'd like to gather as much good info as I can about this fine machine, so here's the Serial #:
VCOT 52 blank-blank-blank
I believe the '52' reflects frame size, perhaps non-custom, and the final series of digits should reflect its place in the sequence of fabrication and assembly of these frames.

Any info, comments and/or conversation will be warmly received.

phcollard

12-08-2010, 11:38 AM

dave thompson

12-08-2010, 11:52 AM

I have a Colorado Ti (great bike). From what I understood this was renamed Legend Ti but it's basically the same frame? Other will correct me if I am wrong, and I am watching this thread to gather some info as well :)
You're correct. When Serotta's first titanium bike was introduced it was called the Colorado Ti, to tie it in with Serotta's famous Colorado tubing found on its top-tier bikes. About the same time, the top-line steel bike was the Legend (from the Colorado II) and shortly thereafter the Colorado Ti became the Legend Ti. Side note: the steel Legend became the CSi later.

bwa

12-08-2010, 06:01 PM

I have a Colorado Ti (great bike). From what I understood this was renamed Legend Ti but it's basically the same frame? Other will correct me if I am wrong, and I am watching this thread to gather some info as well :)

What series of letters appears in your CT's serial number? As I said, this titanium Serotta's is "VCOT..." followed by digits (listed in opening post.)

chuckroast

12-08-2010, 07:26 PM

I have a CTI, it's serial number sequence is CT 56 148.

bwa

12-08-2010, 08:10 PM

Well, then it seems quite UNlikely that this one's a titanium version of the Colorado.

dave thompson

12-08-2010, 08:17 PM

Well, then it seems quite UNlikely that this one's a titanium version of the Colorado.
Chuckroast has a different model than you do.

bwa

12-08-2010, 08:26 PM

True, but why would the model appear (albeit vaguely) to begin with 'C' and the serial# (quite CLEARLY) with 'VCOT"?

dave thompson

12-08-2010, 09:37 PM

True, but why would the model appear (albeit vaguely) to begin with 'C' and the serial# (quite CLEARLY) with 'VCOT"? Typically Serotta serial number their bikes with a model designator as the prefix and then the production number of the bike. I'll use my old Ottrott as a example C-LI-58.5 0711. LI indicates an Ottrott, the C in front of the LI indicates it's a custom, it's size is a 58.5 and was the 711th one made of the Ottrotts.

I've not seen a serial number that begins with VCOT. The model prefix is Serotta's code and doesn't always appear to be related to the model as the example of my Ottrott; LI=Ottrott.

brenick

12-08-2010, 11:18 PM

I had a 52x52 Concours stolen in Tucson last December. Interestingly enough, it had an Easton EM-90 magnesium stem mounted on an adapter. Ultegra components with triple, American Classic Sprint 320 wheels.

Insurance company paid for a replacement. If this is the bike I had stolen, I would love to know the angles as it rode better than the custom replacement the insurance company paid for.

oliver1850

12-08-2010, 11:49 PM

It seems likely the COT part might indicate it's a Colorado Ti.

Could the V prefix indicate some optional feature? Taller head tube, or something that would be less than a full custom?

Just for the record, my Ti Concours prefix is C CT (custom, concours Ti)

Atlanta: AS

Nova Special: SL

Nova Special X: SN
NHX: SN (if memory serves)

Colorado II: SC

A list of these would be a nice thing to have if we get the catalog section going.

tuxbailey

12-09-2010, 12:00 AM

benb

12-09-2010, 08:48 AM

I doubt he found your Concours..

Like Oliver, my Ti Concours definitely has a serial # starting with "CCT". VCOT has got to be something different unless they changed it for some reason.

rickbb

12-09-2010, 09:40 AM

I'm familiar enough with some areas of Serotta, and their models, to recall that there was a Colorado Ti back in the late nineties.

Any info, comments and/or conversation will be warmly received.

Not to complicate things, but I recently picked up a repainted Legend (or so I thought) frame, Serial # TI57L 00348. Serotta (thanks, Pete, too!) was nice enough to provide the info that it is from one of the first two years of the model's production, 1993 or 1994, based on the seat clamp design. It must be a Colorado.

bwa

12-09-2010, 10:55 AM

I once had an Atlanta that was STICKERED and SOLD (as NOS) by a Florida bike shop as the Serotta model it was MOST similar to (Colorado?).

Not to complicate things, but I recently picked up a repainted Legend (or so I thought) frame, Serial # TI57L 00348. Serotta (thanks, Pete, too!) was nice enough to provide the info that it is from one of the first two years of the model's production, 1993 or 1994, based on the seat clamp design. It must be a Colorado.

rickbb

12-09-2010, 11:03 AM

I once had an Atlanta that was STICKERED and SOLD (as NOS) by a Florida bike shop as the Serotta model it was MOST similar to (Colorado?).

I don't believe my seller intentionally misrepresented the model but merely assumed it were a Legend. There is no model name on the repainted TT.
I am most pleased with its lineage and the fact that it's apparently an early Colorado Ti.

bwa

12-09-2010, 11:09 AM

If this turns out to be your old bike, I'll be happy (anxious, actually!) to share with you. Maybe we could PM to suss this out.

I had a 52x52 Concours stolen in Tucson last December. Interestingly enough, it had an Easton EM-90 magnesium stem mounted on an adapter. Ultegra components with triple, American Classic Sprint 320 wheels.

Insurance company paid for a replacement. If this is the bike I had stolen, I would love to know the angles as it rode better than the custom replacement the insurance company paid for.

bwa

12-09-2010, 11:12 AM

There's some good, interesting stuff coming up here. [Qu'el DRAMA!]

more later . . .

rickbb

12-09-2010, 11:19 AM

The catalog section has some good info, including a frame that resembles mine in the 1994 edition.
Timely thread for some of us!

tuxbailey

12-09-2010, 01:17 PM

There's some good, interesting stuff coming up here. [Qu'el DRAMA!]

more later . . .

You are going to leave us hanging...

bwa

12-10-2010, 08:17 AM

UPDATE: I apolgize for NOT posting pics yet. My Thurs was way too (unexpectedly) busy w/ grandkids' stuff f/ me to manage that. But Brenick and I are PM/emailing to get to the bottom of this, and I'll happily share what develops there when/if anything seems to firm up. The mystery bike remains hanging in my LBS where I will be tending to business later today, so photos should become available, and part of the conversation, quite soon. Frame size, shift/drive group, even the pedals,and maybe the stem, DO match, as well as the decal color; but NOT the headset, which seems curious to me. Brenick's Concours had a Chris King, which on many bikes can be part of one's "signature" motif, if you will. If this one was stolen and had that part swapped out, it probably was NOT from the headset going bad (a King?!); more likely (imho) as a ploy, by a learned cycling-savvy citizen, working to disguise the bike. And I find that notion DISTURBING. The wheelset isn't a match, and this one's not bedecked w/ bottle cages or computer. But of course these things can be changed and/or removed, easily and sometimes often, on any quality bike that gets ridden at all regularly, especially when there's a change in ownership. FROM MY END, THAT'S. ABOUT ALL THE NEWS THAT'S "FIT TO PRINT" AT THE MOMENT. P.S.: The possibility of RE-UNITING bike and its previous owner (and theft victim) does exist here, if (Brenick's) theft is indeed what has occured w/ this ti Serotta, but no record of serial # was kept, making any SOLID I.D. somewhat dicey. We shall see . . .

oliver1850

12-10-2010, 09:33 AM

Everyone should photograph their bike and serial number. This is especially true if you don't have a receipt. Take the pictures with something or someone that can be identified in the background, so you can at least establish that you had the bike in your posession. A shot with your car license plate in the pic should work. Then email them to yourself so you can access them no matter what else happens.

bwa

12-10-2010, 10:55 AM

That's sure SOLID advice. Great idea(s). [BUMP]

christian

12-10-2010, 11:26 AM

I think the ID is pretty solid - right size, right city, right components (even if wheels and hs have been swapped), and one wacky/odd stem combo. I'd bet my Pegoretti that it's Brenick's bike.

bwa

12-10-2010, 12:09 PM

I'm WITH you on this. I'm not defensive, and I embrace your comments and input. I don't, haven't, and won't deny that this bike may be, or even probably is, Brenick's old ride. As you might have read earlier in this thread, I've welcomed Brenick's communication and have invited her along, as best I can, so far. Brenick's got my email and cell info, and a standing WARM invitation to move forward. I believe in and value cycling karma. I didn't even buy the bike for myself; I ride 56-ish. At the moment, I'm making the Mystery Serotta available to a friend who may (or may not) take a serious liking to it. Also, I've brought Brenick up to speed on my thoughts and intentions. I'm open to many options here, and I always go with my gut when it comes to bikes and riders. I may be a psuedo-noob here (this time around) but I've been around the block, and then some, in road biking and ownership. By the way ~ HAPPY FRIDAY!! I'M GONNA HUFF MY TOURER OVER TO THE lbs AND TAKE SOME PHOTOS, SO i CAN WORK ON PUBLICIZING MORE, AND BETTER, INFO HERE. Oops~ didn't mean to "yell."
// P.S.: i just noticed "cristian" mentioned "... right ... city ...". Did I post that I bought it in Tucson? I may have, but I don't recall doing so. Yes, I'm in Az. Perhaps "cristian" was guessing. However, I DID BUY IT IN TUCSON ~ yes.

I think the ID is pretty solid - right size, right city, right components (even if wheels and hs have been swapped), and one wacky/odd stem combo. I'd bet my Pegoretti that it's Brenick's bike.

Ken Robb

12-10-2010, 12:55 PM

As a general question only loosely related to this specific situation I wonder: if my bike is stolen and I collect from my insurance company do I still have any claim to the bike if it's later recovered? I know when I was paid off for a wrecked car I had to sign the title over to the other guy's insurer.

oliver1850

12-10-2010, 01:11 PM

Good question Ken, I'd like to have my stolen bike back if it ever got recovered, which I figure after 15 years it won't be.

I'd guess the insurance company would legally own it at that point, but don't know. So seldom is one recovered that it probably rarely comes up.

bwa

12-10-2010, 04:17 PM

Interesting ... From reading this sub-topic, I wonder why, or even IF, an insurance company would pay to replace a bike for which no serial # record is available. But I suppose any decent receipt (eBay invoice / packing slip) might satisfy the question of ownership. Also, on the flip side, such an ins company might be hard pressed to lay claim to a bike, a full year after the fact, w/o such records having been part of the original claim conversation. Otherwise, there might be bike BOUNTY hunters scouring our FORUM websites for such info!! I'm satisfied that my receipt is quite enough to show that I'm now this ti Serotta's LEGAL owner. But of course that's clearly NOT the point, if one has a soul, is it? I look forward to bringing as broad a smile as possible to Brenick's face, one day soon.

bwa

12-10-2010, 04:37 PM

Here ... admittedly the worst looking bike photo I've ever shared anywhere. I'm not up on how to reduce photo-file size, so all I could think of was to crop the crap out of it; whittle it down to somewhere under 800 x 800. [Any related ADVICE, folks?]

EDIT :: Thanks to an unamed, helpful forum user, here are some down-sized pics.

Mike748

12-10-2010, 04:57 PM

Typically Serotta serial number their bikes with a model designator as the prefix and then the production number of the bike. I'll use my old Ottrott as a example C-LI-58.5 0711. LI indicates an Ottrott, the C in front of the LI indicates it's a custom, it's size is a 58.5 and was the 711th one made of the Ottrotts.

I've not seen a serial number that begins with VCOT. The model prefix is Serotta's code and doesn't always appear to be related to the model as the example of my Ottrott; LI=Ottrott.

Ah, but LI = Legend Integrated, hence Ottrott. This appears on early Ottrotts only. Laters ones are OT or something. My Ottrott DKS has a HI serial number presumably for Hors Integrated.

brenick

12-11-2010, 10:19 AM

bwa has been great in sorting this out. He's sent several messages and phone number and is offering to sell it to me if his friend doesn't buy it.

I bought the frameset on ebay and the headset came with it, so I probably didn't have the correct brand when I put together the component list for the insurance company. I am absolutely convinced it was my bike. I am surprised the Frog pedals were still on the bike though.

Nationwide Insurance was great ... I had replacement cost insurance and they paid for everything without a lot of hassle. In addition to the bike, I lost my helmet, gloves and Rudy Project prescription glasses. I did have receipts for the frameset and stem which I bought on ebay. Technically, I think the insurance company now has any rights to the bike if they wanted to pursue it.

I did learn my lesson on getting the serial numbers and pictures of any bikes I own. It was great seeing a picture. I never expected to see the bike again.

The serial number is still a little mystery as the bike definitely had a Concours label when I had it. I think there are some inconsistencies in the number/model relationship.

Liberace

12-11-2010, 10:38 AM

....Technically, I think the insurance company now has any rights to the bike if they wanted to pursue it....

Have you contacted them?

bwa

12-11-2010, 12:51 PM

I ALMOST did NOT buy this bike. The poor-quality photo that was posted in its ad showed very little detail. I just BARELY was able to make out the Campy "EURUS" decals on the wheelset. (Among others) I own a Campy bike that deserves the Eurus (which I've ridden and liked). So, ever curious, I emailed an inquiry.

I was advised to call such-n-such at ###) ###-#### to arrange a meeting and purchase, so I did. But the party whose # I'd called informed me that the bike had already been SOLD. Such is life ...

Nearly a full MONTH later (about 10 days to two weeks ago) I received a phone call asking if I'd found an appropriate bike to buy for myself, as apparently I'd contacted these folks about a month earlier. (I actually HAVE recently bought a bike, a sport-tourer.) Regardless, I asked WHAT specific bike (for sale) they were referring to, or HOW it was that they knew I'd been looking to buy.

Upon sorting that out, I realized that the Serotta (model? age? condition? components/group?) with the Eurus wheels I'd briefly been interested in was indeed (again) available. So it was ALMOST as though this bike had SOUGHT ME OUT.

When does one EVER get a second chance at such a purchase?

Anyway, even though it's not my size, I went ahead and bought it. IMHO, the 2nd-hand cycling market turns upside-down at the holiday season, so "sitting on" this Serotta seemed the thing to do, at the time.

Of course, now I'm THRILLED to be in conversation with Brenick, who I believe was this bike's rightful owner, a year ago. Tax trouble or no, re-uniting a cyclist and a fine machine is like helping a DREAM COME TRUE!

HAPPY HOLIDAYS!!

Ken Robb

12-11-2010, 01:29 PM

Sorry, better to send a pm

bwa

12-11-2010, 01:38 PM

Sorry, better to send a pm

What?

Err ... Oops!

Ken Robb

12-11-2010, 01:40 PM

What? To whom? I do/have send/sent PM's.

If you mean that I "put you to sleep" with that, well ... switch to another thread, my good man.

No, no--I meant I should send you a pm and I did.

ColnagoLightxx

12-11-2010, 01:58 PM

BWA..definitely handled this well. I had a neighbor get his Pinarello Prince stolen..full Campy SR with Zipp wheels and he claimed insurance on it. Two weeks later he bought a brand new Pinarello with SR 11 and magically a month later his old bike shows up. Kind of weird..apparently his "friend" found it on craigslist somewhere.

bwa

12-11-2010, 02:15 PM

Thanks for the strokes/support, folks. As you know, with these quality two-wheelers, it's a Labor of LOVE.

Has ANYONE known of ANY serial # that starts with a 'V'?

Ken Robb

12-11-2010, 02:32 PM

if it was stolen perhaps the crook modified the serial #?

bwa

12-11-2010, 02:53 PM

if it was stolen perhaps the crook modified the serial #?

For a brief while, when it seemed as though the hs had been swapped out, I considered that the thief might be (at least in cahoots with) a cylist, or a cycling-savvy type. But now that it's likely this Shimano '600' hs was part of the ill-gotten booty, I'll revert to assuming a lesser degree of sophistication.

Of course, I don't consider all thieves to be crack-heads. To do so would give any crook with merely a 1/2-functioning brain (even) more of an unfair edge. (I mean they've already got YOUR stuff, right?)

I'd post a photo-link to illustrate, but I have no clue re how to do so effectively here, given the (jpg?) file-size limit. Short of wiping the area with a saliva-moistened thumb, I've scrutinized the bottom bracket's underside, and am fairly certain of the serial #'s authenticity.

I remain a bit bewildered. Just a happy idiot, me ...

EDIT :: Thanks again to photo-aide, Mark!