Semi-OT: any certified tool nuts in here?

[rice rocket]

Granted, I'm not a professional mechanic or electrician, but nothing irks me more than broken fasteners because of crappy tool tolerances that round off heads, or tools that self destruct and leave both broken fastener and tool. While I like spending money on bike stuff, I can't help but spend money on good tools as well, because they often times save a bloodied knuckle or a stripped bolt head. Plus, good tools can be passed down for generations to come. That's not to say that I'm still not buying tools at Harbor Freight, but they're mostly single use specialty tools (i.e. I'm not buying a $300 tool from SnapOn to use once), but most Harbor Freight junk is...junk. Poor quality cast metals that aren't hardened so they destroy your bolt heads/tools, etc. I've tried them all, and it's hard not to at a couple bucks for a whole set of screwdrivers, wrenches, etc.

If I need stuff in a pinch that I can pickup at a local store, I tend to like Stanley stuff. Husky (Home Depot house brand) stuff is sloppy, Kobalt (Lowes) is a little better, Craftsman is decent but overpriced. Started off with a "mechanics" Stanley kit 10 years ago and haven't broken anything, though things don't fit as tightly as my better tools. I still have it around to fill in the gaps (i.e. standard stuff when I need it or some odd sized metric stuff that I didn't buy).

Anyways, I'm partial to:

Wrenches - Beta
Ratcheting wrenches - Toptul
Ratchet & sockets - Beta
T-handle allen wrenches - Beta
Torque wrench - Harbor Freight :D
Screwdrivers - Wiha and Wera
Cordless tools - Ingersoll Rand
Angle grinder - Makita
Pliers & cutters - Knipex

Post up what you like!

Also, looking for suggestions on some impact sockets, I finally blew up all the useful sizes in my Harbor Freight set. :p

[Frankwurst]

I learned in my youth that buying cheap tools is like buying single ply toilet paper. When it's all said and done you are not going to like the results. :beer:

[RPS]

Craftsman. If I win the lottery I'll buy Snap-On -- they are great. My Godfather was a professional mechanic and when I used his Snap-On the difference was very noticeable.

[konstantkarma]

I still use end wrenches from the 1920s that were in my grandfather's tool box. Mostly forged, and not one shows wear on the gripping surface.

Unfortunately, they are all standard sizes and can't be used for most bike or car (Audi, Toyota) applications in my home.

On another note, I have found so many wrenches on the road while riding that my 7 year old son has a pretty good collection of his own already!

[christian]

My son is 2.5, and the other day we were reading a picture book about tools. One of the tools was an adjustable wrench, and he looked at me sternly and said, "We _never_ use an adjustable wrench." I guess I'll give the little guy my Snap-On wrenches when it's time. He loooooves to play with daddy's toolbox.

[btulloch]

+1 Wiha screwdrivers

A lot of my stuff is Mastercraft (Canadian Tire house brand) but it's not great stuff. When I have some more money I'd like to buy better tools.

How does everything think the bike specific stuff stacks up?
Pedros, Park?

Hex bolts are the worst for poor tool tolerances and rounding off bolts. I have found Park Tools to be pretty good for Allen Keys

[AngryScientist]

If I need stuff in a pinch that I can pickup at a local store, I tend to like Stanley stuff. Husky (Home Depot house brand) stuff is sloppy, Kobalt (Lowes) is a little better, Craftsman is decent but overpriced. Started off with a "mechanics" Stanley kit 10 years ago and haven't broken anything, though things don't fit as tightly as my better tools. I still have it around to fill in the gaps (i.e. standard stuff when I need it or some odd sized metric stuff that I didn't buy).



for stuff that actually gets used somewhat regularly the kobalt and husky stuff is garbage, as is the stanley crap you can buy at target.

craftsman is great, if for no other reason than you can ALWAYS return it NQA for something new.

good hand tools include

SK
matco
snap-on
MAC
channellock

and a handful of others. the tools i use most often (screwdrivers, pliers, hex tools, ratchet wrenches, combo wrenches, etc) i try and buy good stuff that will last forever, because they are always there. the rest of the stuff in my garage i get as i go, with anticipated use and budget in mind.

[Ti Designs]

I spent some time in my wood shop this morning, I noticed I don't have much brand loyalty. If anything I've gone heavy on Jet tools, my table saw, my lathe and my mortising drill are all Jet. I look at all the tools out there and what I really need, sometimes there's a clear winner, sometimes it comes down to price. Do I really need a 3HP router? No, but having three 690 motors means I always have one with the dovetail bit set at the perfect height. And for all the looking I've done, there's nothing better then the Bosch jigsaw.

As for wrenches, I have lots of sets for various things. I have the SK small metric 6-sided wrench set for when I really don't want to round a fastener. I probably use the Craftsman long polished set the most. Craftsman also has metric ignition wrenches which allow you to get into places other wrenches don't - don't ask me what you're ever going to use a 5.5mm wrench for... In sockets it's all about fit and strength. I bought a set of lug nut sockets from Harbor freight, the one I used cracked and rounded the lug nut, which then had me drilling out the stud to remove it - royal pain for using cheap sockets. The new ones are IR. All of my long impact sockets are Snap-On, for something like that there's no point in taking a chance with anything else.

When it comes to machine shop tools, harbor freight makes thing affordable, but they're still junk. I look at the used tool places for the really nice stuff, if I can't find it there I think about the discount places. I recently scored a Dorian knurling head from the used tool store. I paid about 1/5th of what it was worth, not because they don't know what it is or what it costs, but because they didn't really think anyone would know what it is. Now all I need is something to knurl...

[97CSI]

I have found Park Tools to be pretty good for Allen KeysThe ball-ends on two of my three t-handle allen wrenches have broken off. Not what I would call 'high quality'.

[oldpotatoe]

+1 Wiha screwdrivers

A lot of my stuff is Mastercraft (Canadian Tire house brand) but it's not great stuff. When I have some more money I'd like to buy better tools.

How does everything think the bike specific stuff stacks up?
Pedros, Park?

Hex bolts are the worst for poor tool tolerances and rounding off bolts. I have found Park Tools to be pretty good for Allen Keys

For frame prep, Park is not my first choice. I have a fork crown race cutter and it is dull after 4-5 uses. For cutters, Campagnolo, Var, Cyclus isn't bad. Hand tools from Pedros and Park are great. TS-2 is the best truing stand out there. I have mine for 20 years.

[rice rocket]

The ball-ends on two of my three t-handle allen wrenches have broken off. Not what I would call 'high quality'.
Ball ends are a bad idea to begin with.

S-K recently went bust and got sold to Ideal. Not sure how it's gonna turn out, but I know a few electricians who swear by their Ideal strippers.

I never grew up around Matco and MAC, so I've never had the pleasure of using them.

craftsman is great, if for no other reason than you can ALWAYS return it NQA for something new.

That's true, I have used Craftsman to do some destructive things (like hammer a socket onto a bolt and impact it off), just because I know I can replace it later. That said, I don't want to make it a habit.


In sockets it's all about fit and strength. I bought a set of lug nut sockets from Harbor freight, the one I used cracked and rounded the lug nut, which then had me drilling out the stud to remove it - royal pain for using cheap sockets. The new ones are IR. All of my long impact sockets are Snap-On, for something like that there's no point in taking a chance with anything else.

I would love some Snap-On impact sockets, but $30/each...yikes. Then again, I'd probably only buy 3-4 sizes.

[johnnymossville]

There may be slightly better hand tools than craftsman, but taking price/quality/availability/replacement guarantee into consideration they are the bulk of my tools.

I also like Porter Cable stuff and my husqvarna chainsaw.

[97CSI]

There may be slightly better hand tools than craftsman, but taking price/quality/availability/replacement guarantee into consideration they are the bulk of my tools.Not only that, where else does one find such an excellent selection of tools 'on the shelf' as at a Sears store.

That said, I just ask for a set of Wiha screwdrivers for Xmas.

[Ken Robb]

If you can wait for the frequent sales Craftsman tools can be real bargains but even at full price they aren't too expensive in my opinion. I have S-K open-end/box wrenchs and 3/8" drive sockets from 1967 that are all like new after hobbyist use. I have similar stuff plus some 1/4" and 1/2" drives from Craftsman from the early 1970s. While I prefer the finish and handle shapes of the S-K bits the Craftsman is also pretty darn minty. A couple of years ago I had an 8mm hex bit fall out of the 3/8" socket that snaps on my handle. I took it to Sears for a no questions asked replacement. The salesman didn't even examine it--just told me to get a new one from the display. When I got home I realized my Craftsman set was complete and I now had two 8mm. The one that failed was a Husky from a gift set. I tried to return the Craftsman but the store said it was more trouble to relabel it than it was worth.

I see Sears is now advertising "universal" wrenches that work on both SAE and Metric sizes. That would be great if they really work well. Any experience with them guys?

[AngryScientist]

i just hope craftsman line manages to stay above water and consistent with quality. the writing for sears to go out of business is written pretty boldly on the wall. from where i'm sitting, craftsman tools are all thats keeping sears afloat.

[johnnymossville]

i just hope craftsman line manages to stay above water and consistent with quality. the writing for sears to go out of business is written pretty boldly on the wall. from where i'm sitting, craftsman tools are all thats keeping sears afloat.

I pretty much agree about Sears. I often thought a stand alone Craftsman Store would be a great concept.

Of course, Sears wouldn't still be around if they did that. I predict Craftsman will outlast Sears.

[AngryScientist]

I pretty much agree about Sears. I often thought a stand alone Craftsman Store would be a great concept.

Of course, Sears wouldn't still be around if they did that. I predict Craftsman will outlast Sears.

fwiw, the same can be said, and i think its directly analogous - about Chrysler and Jeep

[johnnymossville]

fwiw, the same can be said, and i think its directly analogous - about Chrysler and Jeep

Yep. Jeep is a perfect example of the same type of thing.

[RPS]

fwiw, the same can be said, and i think its directly analogous - about Chrysler and JeepYep. Jeep is a perfect example of the same type of thing.
Do you guys have Sears Hardware stores in your area? It’s almost that concept although they carry more tools than just Craftsman. Much less and it would be too small as a stand-alone IMO.

[gemship]

There may be slightly better hand tools than craftsman, but taking price/quality/availability/replacement guarantee into consideration they are the bulk of my tools.

I also like Porter Cable stuff and my husqvarna chainsaw.



for the price it's hard to beat a Echo, slightly underpowered for the size of the bar but it has that Japanese bang for buck reliability that I tend to believe has a Stihl, Jonsered and even a Husky lying in its wake.

oh yeah I just thought of my Shindawa weed wacker, another Japanese tool that just seems to always run.

[gemship]

it's just common sense that six points are better than twelve when it comes to tight fit and avoiding rounding out that bolt/nut to be loosened.

[johnnymossville]

for the price it's hard to beat a Echo, slightly underpowered for the size of the bar but it has that Japanese bang for buck reliability that I tend to believe has a Stihl, Jonsered and even a Husky lying in its wake.

oh yeah I just thought of my Shindawa weed wacker, another Japanese tool that just seems to always run.

Never tried an Echo though I'm sure it's a good machine, but I bought my Husky when I was a teenager and it was the smoothest, quietest, most comfortable, and most powerful chainsaw I ever tried at the time and it's very reliable. I used it for clearing forest for farmland, and for cutting firewood mostly. I don't use it much anymore now that I'm a suburbanite.

[97CSI]

for the price it's hard to beat a Echo, slightly underpowered for the size of the bar but it has that Japanese bang for buck reliability that I tend to believe has a Stihl, Jonsered and even a Husky lying in its wake.

oh yeah I just thought of my Shindawa weed wacker, another Japanese tool that just seems to always run.My Stihl still runs as good as new after 19 years of hard work and minimal maintenance. The Craftsman of chainsaws?

[sean]

I'm not sure if this qualifies me as a tool nut, but I just started collecting Peanut Butter wrenches from different makers. I think I'm up to about 15 or so.

I think that makes me more of a tool OCD rather than a nut.

On another note, one of my favorite all around shop tools is a hand grinder. You can get them on ebay super cheap. They almost look like a meat grinder with a grinding wheel. They are great for low speed job where you just need to take off a tiny bit, like housing cables.

http://www.chinatraderonline.com/Files/user/20091028115552.jpg

[Ti Designs]

I often thought a stand alone Craftsman Store would be a great concept.


Here's another idea. In any given Victoria's Secret store there are always a few red faced guys standing around waiting for their girlfriends/wives to pick something out. I've seen their retail numbers and while sales are good and the average purchase cost is higher than I would have thought given the product, it's not great for the amount of retail space most of their stores take up. So let's say they devote 100 square feet of wall space, out of sight from the rest of the store, to power tools...

[dave thompson]

Here's another idea. In any given Victoria's Secret store there are always a few red faced guys standing around waiting for their girlfriends/wives to pick something out. I've seen their retail numbers and while sales are good and the average purchase cost is higher than I would have thought given the product, it's not great for the amount of retail space most of their stores take up. So let's say they devote 100 square feet of wall space, out of sight from the rest of the store, to power tools...
Sears should devote 300 square feet to a Victoria's Secret display. Women could shop while S/Os are in the tool dept. OR tool geeks could drool there after their Craftsman purchases.

[Frankwurst]

Here's another idea. In any given Victoria's Secret store there are always a few red faced guys standing around waiting for their girlfriends/wives to pick something out. I've seen their retail numbers and while sales are good and the average purchase cost is higher than I would have thought given the product, it's not great for the amount of retail space most of their stores take up. So let's say they devote 100 square feet of wall space, out of sight from the rest of the store, to power tools...

This makes sense but I'm the guy standing around looking at the other girlfriends and wives. Frankwurst is now Franktheperv. :beer:

[PaulE]

You can never be too rich, too thin, or have too many tools.

A friend of mine just bought a $17 paint spray gun at Harbor Freight, the kind used with an air compressor. He wanted something cheap to paint some replacement shutters for his house. He was very pleased with the quality of the spray gun and how well it sprayed latex paint.

[97CSI]

You can never be too rich, too thin, or have too many tools.
My brother has found that the best place to purchase tools is at pawn shops. Can buy high quality for $1/wrench for open-ends, etc. Many pre-WWII British and German that are well made.

[Birddog]

Our local Ace Hardware Stores (Westlake) carry Craftsman Tools. Details here http://www.marketwatch.com/story/sears-agrees-to-sell-craftsman-tools-at-ace-hardware-2010-02-20
Personally, I find todays version of Craftsman hand tools to be just so-so. I think their electric tools are way overpriced for their value. I have several Gear Wrench combination wrenches in both SAE and metric, and I like them. In fact, they are my go to wrenches over a my older Craftsman (metric) and SK (SAE) set. My older sets date back to the 50's and 60's.

[gemship]

My Stihl still runs as good as new after 19 years of hard work and minimal maintenance. The Craftsman of chainsaws?


Stihl is a anomaly to me. There's a Stihl dealer who repaired out of his home for years until he passed away a few minutes walk from me,now his son in law took over the business and they seem to always have people coming in need of service for their old saws. I think Stihl's are nice and built with quality, I sort of liken them to a Ford truck in that they commercial grade, heavy duty but they have some design to them that will not suffer neglectful service ever where as the Echo seems to be more Honda like. I owned a Craftsmen saw before my Echo, it was great power wise for the money (18" blade, 40cc) but the bar oiler mechanism was crap and I was cutting oak one day, trees that must of easily been forty inches in dia. , bucking them into logs with the bar buried in wood, something cracked, either the cylinder wall or a piston ring. The saw died but would still run when cool for about ten seconds then sputter and die out again. Granted I had it running wide open but I don't think it was the fuel mix, not to high on Craftsmen for extended use but yeah I have seen many Stihl's in need of service, yours may be the exception and or the ones I have seen are not put away proper,who knows, maybe it's the extra ethanol in the fuel.

[97CSI]

Oak forest here where I live. Thus, lots of tree/lawn maintenance folks coming and going. I've never seen any of them use anything but Stihl saws. And I've never seen an Echo in use by any of them for any thing. People who earn their living with tools usually go for the best. Based on my casual, unscientific survey around here, Stihl is the choice for chainsaws.

Craftsman chainsaws are, obviously, made by someone else and rebranded for a price-point. Don't think they pretend they are commercial-grade so one should not expect to get commercial service from them, which is what I suggest your story relates. When used as intended, they are likely fine for the average homeowner.

My friend who heats his house and hot-water with wood uses a Stihl. Same one for the last ten years. 40-60 cords of wood each year (automated splitter, etc.). Most maintenance on a Stihl or any decent chainsaw is sharpening the blade. I have have two blades and my friend has half-a-dozen. Old oak is some tough stuff.

As an aside, I would never heat my house/hot-water with wood. Seems everytime we want to do something my friend is out with his trailer gathering firewood for the following season. In the end, I'm guessing when his labor is counted at $20/hour he is saving little, if anything, in $$ with wood.

[AngryScientist]

Most maintenance on a Stihl or any decent chainsaw is sharpening the blade.

in my experience, which is very limited with chain saws, since i use mine soo unoften is that the biggest headache stems from non-use. i have a craftsman, and the biggest problem is getting it started after 10 - 11 months of sitting unused (i use it about 2-3 times a year, all within a month or so). used fuel gums up the carb. and the rest of the fuel system, which can be a hassle to come through even if i use stabil or some other fuel stabilizer. once i blow the cobwebs out and get it warmed up, it runs great.

i may experiment with running it out of fuel before laying it up this year, that might help.

[maxdog]

40-60 cords of wood each year (automated splitter, etc.).

I guess your either talking face cords, or your friend doesn't have a roof on his house.

[maxdog]

in my experience, which is very limited with chain saws, since i use mine soo unoften is that the biggest headache stems from non-use. i have a craftsman, and the biggest problem is getting it started after 10 - 11 months of sitting unused (i use it about 2-3 times a year, all within a month or so). used fuel gums up the carb. and the rest of the fuel system, which can be a hassle to come through even if i use stabil or some other fuel stabilizer. once i blow the cobwebs out and get it warmed up, it runs great.

i may experiment with running it out of fuel before laying it up this year, that might help.

That will definitely help, Gas these days should not be used in a two cycle engine after a few months.

The other thing that will help is to get a Stihl or Huskey.

[Ken Robb]

There are gas treatments like "Stabil" that keep gas fresh for quite a while. I use it in my boats.

[maxdog]

There are gas treatments like "Stabil" that keep gas fresh for quite a while. I use it in my boats.

One could try that, but is it worth the cost. You are talking about a four cycle engine with a much more substantial gas tank, aren't you?

[gemship]

Oak forest here where I live. Thus, lots of tree/lawn maintenance folks coming and going. I've never seen any of them use anything but Stihl saws. And I've never seen an Echo in use by any of them for any thing. People who earn their living with tools usually go for the best. Based on my casual, unscientific survey around here, Stihl is the choice for chainsaws.

Craftsman chainsaws are, obviously, made by someone else and rebranded for a price-point. Don't think they pretend they are commercial-grade so one should not expect to get commercial service from them, which is what I suggest your story relates. When used as intended, they are likely fine for the average homeowner.

My friend who heats his house and hot-water with wood in a season uses a Stihl. Same one for the last ten years. 40-60 cords of wood each year (automated splitter, etc.). Most maintenance on a Stihl or any decent chainsaw is sharpening the blade. I have have two blades and my friend has half-a-dozen. Old oak is some tough stuff.

As an aside, I would never heat my house/hot-water with wood. Seems everytime we want to do something my friend is out with his trailer gathering firewood for the following season. In the end, I'm guessing when his labor is counted at $20/hour he is saving little, if anything, in $$ with wood.



Did I read that right? Forty to Sixty chords of wood? Your buddy must be heating a mansion.

I heat my house with wood rather liberally, I think I use may four chords of wood during a season living in Ma. although I do have a electric water heater but my hot water needs are pretty minimal, I mean my electric bill for the month is only about thirty bucks maybe thirty two and that includes a macbook in operation twelve to sixteen hours a day and my lighting needs along with a electric stove/oven. Yeah I suspect I would have many in disbelief with what I do with my Echo saw but I'm that guy that outsprints a lot of folks on sub 18 # wonder bikes with my 30# mountain bike going uphill :hello: I also have a Troy built Honda powered splitter, it's not commercial but that little Honda engine is another Japanese got it right the first time minimal maintenance marvel. Echo is becoming a big name in the chainsaw, lawncare business plenty of Youtube videos to back it up but in the case of mine (18" bar, 40cc) I figure it to be about 10cc underdisplacement for the size of the bar. That's the only thing I don't like about it, I just wish it had more balls but keeping the rpms up with a sharp chain I can keep the bar buried in wood that would certainly and did burn out my Craftsmen. I paid 300$ for my CS400 at Home Depot and it has a five year warranty as a bonus. The same 18" bar model up the street for me by Stihl or Husky is like 100-150$ more, it does have a slightly bigger engine and the reputation of commercial grade but bang for buck wise I had to go with the better deal. It was also recommended to me by a pro who makes his living just by selling firewood to actually go with the cheaper saws like Poulan, Craftsmen, he seemed to think that they all just burn out anyway. I can assure you though the Echo isn't built like anything else from a department store even their weed wackers and leafblowers are earning a rep to be among the best of the business.

[Birddog]

I guess your either talking face cords, or your friend doesn't have a roof on his house. Good one, I was thinking along those lines too. Even in "face cords" that's a lotta wood, not really efficient IMO.

[gemship]

There are gas treatments like "Stabil" that keep gas fresh for quite a while. I use it in my boats.


and there is actually newer formulations of "boat grade stabilizer" that are touted as actually preserving the fuel for a year. One has to purchase it at a boating supply store. The stuff has actually gone up in price over the past decade,maybe just marketing due to the newer gas.

I just recently bought Startron by Starbrite brand. They call it Enzyme fuel treatment eight ounces treats one hundred and twenty eight gallons of gas. I figure it breaks down to about a teaspoon to every gallon of gas and at over 15$ bucks a bottle it's worth it to meter it out, I use it for everything except my truck.

[gemship]

Oh yeah and if there's a bleed screw on a carb I always tend to bleed those float bowls despite treating the gas with stabilizer or just run the machine out of gas with the Stabilzer mixed in it of course or just get in the habit of running your machine for a couple of minutes every so often. As a ritual once a month I actually pull the starter chord on all my small engine machines just to keep things loose, I may not run the engine but it just seems to make sense since things I own may not sit idle for more than six months, small outboard motor, scooter,log splitter,chainsaw,lawnmower,weed wackier.

If they were to sit idle for like a year or longer I have yet to try but I may even do the teaspoon of mystery oil in the cylinder trick to prevent oxidizing and or seizing but that's a bit too much for my needs.

[gemship]

That will definitely help, Gas these days should not be used in a two cycle engine after a few months..


Yeah but on the other hand if your treating the gas as well as premixing with two cycle oil, the oil helps keep it fresh too. I do know for a fact that both Stihl and Echo have their own overpriced mixing oils that supposedly have stabilizer added to the mix, if that helps. Personally I buy the Walmart brand two cycle oil in a gallon size and spend a little extra on the marine grade stabilizer.

[gemship]

Now I'm starting to feel like the chainsaw guy and I should actually start my own thread for this as it may be a bit offtopic. Two days ago I was riding my bike in my neighborhood and my neighbor set a couple of things out at the edge of her driveway. One of them was a two handed electric sander like new by Skil. The other was a electric four and half horsepower chain saw by Mccolluch with a literally new looking chain on a 16" bar. Two months ago she threw away a nearly new commercial grade wheelbarrow made by Johnston, it had the heavy duty thick oak handles and extra bracing for heavy loads with a thick blue plastic barrow and a tubeless tire, I looked it up and it was like 150 or even 200$ new. I can't believe what some people throw out for free. Of course I took everything.

[maxdog]

Yeah but on the other hand if your treating the gas as well as premixing with two cycle oil, the oil helps keep it fresh too. I do know for a fact that both Stihl and Echo have their own overpriced mixing oils that supposedly have stabilizer added to the mix, if that helps. Personally I buy the Walmart brand two cycle oil in a gallon size and spend a little extra on the marine grade stabilizer.

It may 'help', but the fact remains, you should not use modern formulations of gas in a two stroke engine after a few months, unless there is some really good reason to. I can't think of any.

[forrestw]

Here's another idea. In any given Victoria's Secret store there are always a few red faced guys standing around waiting for their girlfriends/wives to pick something out. I've seen their retail numbers and while sales are good and the average purchase cost is higher than I would have thought given the product, it's not great for the amount of retail space most of their stores take up. So let's say they devote 100 square feet of wall space, out of sight from the rest of the store, to power tools...

When I'm waiting in VS I got better things than tools to look at ... are you familiar with RIDGE tool plumbing tool calendars?

[97CSI]

[QUOTE=gemship]Did I read that right? Forty to Sixty chords of wood? Your buddy must be heating a mansion.[\QUOTE]. That's what he tells me. 4000+ sq ft plus an out-building with the hot-tub. Based on the time he puts into wood gathering and prep. I've no doubt he is being honest. Seems like he is either doing one or the other. His only electricity is for lighting and cooling. But, just being connected to the distribution system in NJ will cost $30/mon. Will ad the I would rather pay a bit more for a U.S. made product (I will not shop at WallyWorld) than a foreign one. Rather spend my money up-front to keep us employed than thru taxes when the job gets moved overseas and we have to pay unemployment.

[gemship]

[QUOTE=gemship]Did I read that right? Forty to Sixty chords of wood? Your buddy must be heating a mansion.[\QUOTE]. That's what he tells me. 4000+ sq ft plus an out-building with the hot-tub. Based on the time he puts into wood gathering and prep. I've no doubt he is being honest. Seems like he is either doing one or the other. His only electricity is for lighting and cooling. But, just being connected to the distribution system in NJ will cost $30/mon. Will ad the I would rather pay a bit more for a U.S. made product (I will not shop at WallyWorld) than a foreign one. Rather spend my money up-front to keep us employed than thru taxes when the job gets moved overseas and we have to pay unemployment.

Keeping our money here in America is a good thing, I must agree. I'm not sure what your referring to at Wallyworld, if it's the Supertech two cycle oil they sell in one gallon quantities that I enjoy buying and saving some money on because I have multiple two cycle powered engines that get thirsty... well that's their house brand oil and I would be willing to bet it's probably made somewhere closer to the US than Asia although the key petroleum ingredients probably come from the same place all fuel comes from :rolleyes: They don't sell Echo at Wallyworld and I believe Stihl the brand is made in Germany? Personally I consider Germany and Japan, whether my dollars go to either one of those countries industries the same difference.

[97CSI]

99% of the stuff at WallyWorld is Chinese. Don't mind Chinese or their stuff, but do mind their monetary policies (which our pols always make worse) and unfair trade. We should apply exact the same rules to China trade as they apply to us (and the same with all developed nations - I digress).

Stihl has been made in the U.S. since they opened their factory in 1974 in Virginia Beach. I don't know if they had a factory in WI, where their NA headquarters were before that, or not.

[gemship]

99% of the stuff at WallyWorld is Chinese. Don't mind Chinese or their stuff, but do mind their monetary policies (which our pols always make worse) and unfair trade. We should apply exact the same rules to China trade as they apply to us (and the same with all developed nations - I digress).

Stihl has been made in the U.S. since they opened their factory in 1974 in Virginia Beach. I don't know if they had a factory in WI, where their NA headquarters were before that, or not.


Interesting, I had to google that and there were some conflicting answers out there, even the Stihl site wasn't so clear although it seems your right about that but people say some of their heavier duty line of product is made in Germany and that is where the company is based. No doubt to be competitive I can't imagine all components being German made like carbs and ignitions.

Yes manufacturing here in the USA is very much in decline especially when it comes to tooling for all the reasons you describe, seems unpatriotic and it's killing this country economy wise, heck even I'm a victim of it,currently unemployed. I as a consumer in between a rock and another hard place. Ideally I agree with you but I'm no millionaire and I have to watch my budget the easy way is with the better deals.

[97CSI]

I understand. As a recent retiree, on a semi-fixed budget, I do to. But, I feel strongly enough about this to simply forego discretionary spending until have saved the funds to purchase U.S. made. If it doesn't start with me, then with whom?

[bfd]

I understand. As a recent retiree, on a semi-fixed budget, I do to. But, I feel strongly enough about this to simply forego discretionary spending until have saved the funds to purchase U.S. made. If it doesn't start with me, then with whom?

Admittedly, Chinese made tools have actually gotten better over the years. When you factor in "lifetime" warranties from places like Lowes, HD, even O'Reilly/Kragen/Checker/Shucks and the low cost, it seems like a bargain.

But, when you're working on something and the tool "strips or rounds" the nut or thread, then that $$ saved is foolish.

My tool collection is mainly Craftsman, Proto and some Snap-on (got a friend who gets me "pro deals."

Of course, since this is a BICYCLE forum, so my favorite bike tools are my Campy cone wrenches. Makes adjusting hubs, smooth as buttah! Good Luck!

[SoCalSteve]

I learned in my youth that buying cheap tools is like buying single ply toilet paper. When it's all said and done you are not going to like the results. :beer:

Post of the day!

[FastVegan]

As a professional auto mechanic I would say I am a "tool nut" I have about 25K invested in tools/tool box.

Almost everything I own is Matco, I have some snap-on but we have gone through 4 reps in the past 2 years and some prices are insane, craftsman sockets are the best for the money.

I would also agree that cheap tools are ok until they cause more damage when they fail, one example is a tech at my shop damaged a customers wheel when a cheap impact socket failed when removing a wheel,saving $10 on a socket ended as a $600.00 mistake :crap:

That being said Snap-on, mac and matco tools fail, just not as often
I always think of tools as an extension of the human hand, a weak hand can not work, and a weak tool will not work.