OT - shopping for books ...

[TMB]

Here is a question I want some ideas on.

Off Topic.

When I was a kid, and for many years after ( I’m 50 now) there were always great book shops that could be found in every little town, in different parts of town, etc.

The kind of book stores where you could go in and poke around ad find all sorts of amazing things and usually come out with something 180 degrees different than what you started looking for.

You could spend hours in those stores.

They were wonderful.

It seems now though that those bookstores just don’t exist any more. Now we have chains that carry the top sellers and a few “other” titles. Maybe if you’re lucky they have one of each title.

A selection a mile wide and a quarter inch deep.

You ask for something that isn’t in the store and they say “ we can order that for you”. Well, so can I. So you start looking at the web-sites for the stores and you can order what wanted, but the “shopping” part ...

How on earth do you shop for books on those web-sites when all you have to go on is the publisher’s canned blurb and you can’t see the book. There is no way to go on that exploration journey that you used to be able to do in a real bookstore and find new things.

I don’t know if this makes sense to anyone, but if it does, where do you folks shop for books these days and how do you make those “discoveries”, those leaps into the unknown to try an author or subject that you’ve never read before when you can’t even see the book.

I’d love to hear some thoughts from you folks.

[BengeBoy]

I used to love hanging out in bookstores, too, but find the web a much better tool for discovering new stuff -- recommendations, customer reviews, samples posted on websites.

I now do most of my reading on a Kindle. Kindle allows you to download the first chapter of books for free -- now when I see a book I think I want to buy, I download the first chapter to my Kindle. Then when I finish a book, I open up my "free samples" list and decide what I am going to read next. I think I have about 30 books in the queue.

Between the unread physical books I've picked up there and the list of "free sample" books waiting to be tried out in my Kindle, I'm having no trouble finding stuff to read...

I've also been tempted to join Shelfari, an online book community (there are others), but I think it will just increase the list of unread books I have...

[Steve in SLO]

TMB,
I'm with you.
Luckily on our little town we have such a bookstore and I really enjoy it. There are few experiences like wandering through a store filled with old, sometimes arcane books...what wonderful sights and smells. If you can't find a decent bookstore near you, might I suggest a stroll through your local public library? It is not quite the same, but then again it is.

[dimsy]

TMB,
I'm with you.
Luckily on our little town we have such a bookstore and I really enjoy it. There are few experiences like wandering through a store filled with old, sometimes arcane books...what wonderful sights and smells. If you can't find a decent bookstore near you, might I suggest a stroll through your local public library? It is not quite the same, but then again it is.

i agree, finding out of print books is always nice. some of the best books on orienteering especially in places outside of the US are out of print, or at least, extremely difficult to find, in a book store.

however, i have to admit, amazon usually has it. i still think amazon is one of the best things that could happen to book lovers. i recently searched for a book on hiking in a tiny country in europe, and amazon found several sources of this out of print book within 200 miles of me. great resource.

[daker13]

I actually think the average Borders or B&N has a pretty good selection--better than your average mom and pop bookstore. I do prefer shopping at the mom and pop places on principle.

It's funny how things change. I used to live in NYC in the mid to late 90s and B&N was taking over the city. They built several giant bookstores around the city, and there was a lot of hand-wringing about how these giant chain stores were killing the smaller bookstores. The stores would be packed, with tons of people browsing, buying, drinking coffee, studying, etc. I recently read an article in the Times that said these big stores are now going out of business. People go there to read magazines, but no one buys anything there anymore: everyone shops online. Five years from now, I wonder if some new paradigm is going to take down Amazon.

[monkeypants]

To add to the previous thoughts, a public library is always a good place to explore. Another option, if possible, is a university/college library. Spent a lot of time as a graduate student wandering through the stacks physically and virtually (via the online catalogue -- using subject/keyword searches). It was a fun way, for me anyway, to occasionally stumble onto new and unexpected finds.

You might also want to check out the readers' advisory resources at your library. Aside from print or direct (ie, librarian) resources there are a number of online tools. They may help in discovering new authors or titles according to your interests.

[AngryScientist]

i have never read a book:

a) that someone didn't make me read (teachers in school)
b) that someone didn't recommend to me

i'm in the camp that the internet is such a great resource for readers. tons of reviews to pour through, good places to get recommendations from like-minded folks, etc.

i would think you would have a much better chance of hitting on a book you really enjoy based on a rec. from someone, or a review that struck a chord with you rather than reading a bit of it in a bookstore, that seems like such a random approach that could be totally hit or miss. an informed and well thought out review or direct recommendation, on the other hand, seems to be much more spot on.

just my 2 cents.

[tele]

Take this response from a library trustee, so I research new books on Amazon and "order" them through the inter-library network here in western Mass. I have yet to find a book that cannot be gotten through my local library network.

[benb]

E-books are a great resource for finding older out of print stuff.. If it's past the copyright cutoff it's yours free due to Project Gutenberg.. you can download them from Google, Amazon, B&N, etc.. free of charge.

I've got this "Magic Catalog" file sitting on my kindle.. it's basically an e-book that is a giant list of old books.. if you know the author or title you can search for it.. then click on it on the kindle and they set it up to automatically download that book over the air. Great stuff! It apparently works on nearly every e-reader that has connectivity.

I find browsing online better then the store at this point.. they've got millions of books in the catalog, they've got user ratings, and they've got good software to suggest similar books.

[rice rocket]

I recently read an article in the Times that said these big stores are now going out of business. People go there to read magazines, but no one buys anything there anymore: everyone shops online. Five years from now, I wonder if some new paradigm is going to take down Amazon.
Amazon is gonna take down themselves, with some forward thinking with the whole Kindle business. They are able to cut down inventory and shipping cost though, who knows what they actually make more profit on. Not sure what's next, maybe books that speak to you through dreams so you actually don't have to read? ;)

But yeah, agreed about B&N. They've sort of made themselves into a Starbucks with free mags and free reading. All that retail space really has no purpose anymore. Now, their new gimmick to get a leg up on Amazon is you're allowed to read everything for free if you buy their Nook...further driving themselves out of business. Not sure how Nook sales is supposed to help fund real estate payments at thousands of locations across the country.

Guess you can't show up to a book signing with a Nook though. ;)

[dogdriver]

Well said, OP. I'm afraid that print is a dying medium. Electronic books are convenient, but we (the reader) are limited by which books the providers choose to offer in electronic format. Same with books on tape, CD, MP3, itunes, Pioneer, etc.

I try to support local, independent bookstores, but even most of those are forced to stock the big movers and need to order more obscure titles. Places like Powell's and City Lights are a dying breed, and our culture will be a little less rich if they pass on.

All this said, I've realized that although I'm an avid reader, there are very few books that I'm interested in owning. I get most books through the local library, either from the shelves, request for purchase, or inter-library loan. As for a good source for titles, library staff (they're not there for the big bucks) usually have good taste and advice. Many libraries have a "staff picks" section, and also a "if you like this, try this" search in their collection software.

There are lots of ways to support print, I've chosen to give a couple hundred bucks a year of the money that I don't spend on buying books to the library.

[97CSI]

Support your local library system. We are fortunate to have an excellent one where we live and we use it.

Has gotten so bad in 'book land' that Amazon even purchased Abe Books, which was a good source prior to that. At least they do allow the used book purveyors to sell through them on-line.

[johnnymossville]

I agree pretty much on what's happened to bookstores. The cool little shops are pretty much gone. There's Borders, B&N, and,...

It's still one of my family's favorite pastimes, I spend hours there with the kids when we go. They enjoy it as well.

[Bud_E]

It was a sad day when Dutton's in Brentwood closed it's doors forever. There's nothing like it anymore in West L.A.

[Louis]

TMB,

Do you have a college or university nearby? One good option is to go to the campus library and check out what the profs are using for various classes, whether they be Religion, English, or whatever. Lots of great ideas that way.

I recently discovered that my alma mater has all that info online, so sometimes I get ideas there also. (Plus the alumni magazine often has a "Professors Recommend" section which is also interesting.)

Tangent: Good bookstores (new and used) and libraries are holy places. I really hate to think what the advent of e-books and having the whole world online will do to them.

[1centaur]

My town has fought about building a new library for years. Many people said they could use Google to do research and buy their own books (wealthy town, they have enough money to buy their books but not enough to build a library). Every study shows that new libraries these days see increased usage, not decreased. But libraries are morphing to being meeting places where people see programs (flower arranging) or use computers or even have business meetings in study rooms. Some proportion of book space is being lost to keep the buildings relevant to the taxpayers.

Physical book readers should treasure libraries that have extensive book collections while they still have them.

[Louis]

If you're ever in Maine on Route 1 "halfway between Bucksport and Ellsworth, Maine" on the way up to Acadia you absolutely have to stop here: The Big Chicken Barn Used Books Store (http://www.bigchickenbarn.com/)

It's an amazing collection of stuff and you can spend hours and hours browsing and reading.

Edit: You have to respect a place that will put this on the very front of their web page:

"To those that haven't visited us in years, we have added two new public INDOOR restrooms."

(Kind of gives you an idea what folks in that part of New England are like...)



http://www.bigchickenbarn.com/Images/bcbarn2.jpg

[happycampyer]

If you are ever in NYC, a nice diversion is to browse at the Strand.

[chuckroast]

Sigh...the small, independent bookstores all went to the same place that the small, independent record stores went.

[Ray]

Sigh...the small, independent bookstores all went to the same place that the small, independent record stores went.
And the small independent video stores. And the big corporate bookstores are going to the same place that the big corporate record stores and video stores went too. There are still lots of pretty cool used book stores around though. There's a great old barn of a bookstore out in the country near here, almost all used but I think they sell a few new ones. There's a used on in our town about 2 blocks walk from my place, but its fairly small. And the library is right across the street from us, so.... And there's actually a good sized independent new book store in a local shopping center that's sort of a local institution and seems to still be doing fine. The last time I was in Seattle Elliot Bay books didn't seem to be hurting too badly either.

That said, I read about 90% on the Kindle now also. I missed the physical part of the book at first.....for about a minute. Then I got lost in the book and realized it didn't matter what it was housed in / 'printed' on. Same thing with music and video. I'm to the point now where I don't see any point in having any goods taking up space and/or transportation resources primarily to move content around. No reason it can't all be done electronically. I buy all of my music and books electronically now and get all of our movies and other 'talkie' content from either Comcast, ITunes, or Netflix. All streaming. No discs or packaging or anything else using up resources. There are some old technologies I sort of mourn as they pass. And some I don't. These I don't. I still get a morning paper and one or two magazines - that's about the only thing I haven't been able to give up but I'll probably be forced to give it up for economic reasons soon enough. And I'll get past it.

-Ray

[bking]

I read around 3 to 4 books at a time. I'm not fast, just carry variety as i read. I've never read a book on kindle, etc. If i'm reading its because i want to learn, and i've just got to be able to underline, mark, comment etc, then keep the book. I don't often return, but its just what i do.
Amazon climbed a few notches when their search engines led to small bookstores accross the country (world?). I've found great stuff through Amazon on some dusty little shelf in a small store in Vermont...while i'm sitting home in Vegas. And i get it in two days, usually free.
Argueably best bookstore in the country, takes up a city block, two floors, you'll never get close to going through it in a day, new, used, in print, out, old shelves reaching to the ceiling...Powells in Portland, Oregon.

[happycampyer]

A bit OT^2, but other crafts/arts that are endangered in the transition to electronic books are bookbinding, printmaking, typography (to a certain extent, since type foundries are still relevant in the electronic world), fine papermaking, etc.

http://talasonline.blogspot.com/

[TMB]

Thank you for all of the comments folks.

Libraries. Agree fully and in fact at one point I was on the library board here. I in fact resigned from the library board here over differences of opinion, but I believe in them.

That said, the library here is not helpful to me. The library serves a number of outlying communities and rural regions as well as the city and the current board have made the decision that primary choice should be directed to the outlying communities and rural regions - the city gets the leftovers.

Putting in a request at the main branch for a book may ( may ) result in getting a call - some number of months forward.

Sad.

I will check out Shelfari - thanks for that.

Kindles and the like are not much help to me as I have a tendency to favour obscure history books and the like.

And yes, agreed - used book stores are the last best hope.

[rounder]

And the small independent video stores. And the big corporate bookstores are going to the same place that the big corporate record stores and video stores went too. There are still lots of pretty cool used book stores around though. There's a great old barn of a bookstore out in the country near here, almost all used but I think they sell a few new ones. There's a used on in our town about 2 blocks walk from my place, but its fairly small. And the library is right across the street from us, so.... And there's actually a good sized independent new book store in a local shopping center that's sort of a local institution and seems to still be doing fine. The last time I was in Seattle Elliot Bay books didn't seem to be hurting too badly either.

That said, I read about 90% on the Kindle now also. I missed the physical part of the book at first.....for about a minute. Then I got lost in the book and realized it didn't matter what it was housed in / 'printed' on. Same thing with music and video. I'm to the point now where I don't see any point in having any goods taking up space and/or transportation resources primarily to move content around. No reason it can't all be done electronically. I buy all of my music and books electronically now and get all of our movies and other 'talkie' content from either Comcast, ITunes, or Netflix. All streaming. No discs or packaging or anything else using up resources. There are some old technologies I sort of mourn as they pass. And some I don't. These I don't. I still get a morning paper and one or two magazines - that's about the only thing I haven't been able to give up but I'll probably be forced to give it up for economic reasons soon enough. And I'll get past it.

-Ray

I am going in the same direction. The last five books read have been on the kndle. Doing more travel these days, and when i do read the washington post on the kindle. When driving to work, am on the road 4-5 hours per day. I subscribed to satellite and am listening mainly to B.B. King's Bluesville,grateful dead and coffeehouse stuff, but also listen to other stuff. I was prevously not interested in satellite at all because i wanted local news and weather, but with satelite you can get everything. Love offbeat bookstores but they are hard to find these days, just like readable newspapers.

[gasman]

Thank you for all of the comments folks.

Libraries. Agree fully and in fact at one point I was on the library board here. I in fact resigned from the library board here over differences of opinion, but I believe in them.

That said, the library here is not helpful to me. The library serves a number of outlying communities and rural regions as well as the city and the current board have made the decision that primary choice should be directed to the outlying communities and rural regions - the city gets the leftovers.

Putting in a request at the main branch for a book may ( may ) result in getting a call - some number of months forward.

Sad.

I will check out Shelfari - thanks for that.

Kindles and the like are not much help to me as I have a tendency to favour obscure history books and the like.

And yes, agreed - used book stores are the last best hope.


Powell's in Portland is a book lovers' dream. it's huge and you can wander for hours or you can order online-they carry some pretty obscure stuff. I've bought several books from them that have been long out-of -print.

[Louis]

Needless to say, you will never, ever see my nose in an e-book, and I have already told my family that they are banned from my list of potential X-mas or birthday presents.

PS - DT shifters are awesome...

[Ray]

I read around 3 to 4 books at a time. I'm not fast, just carry variety as i read. I've never read a book on kindle, etc. If i'm reading its because i want to learn, and i've just got to be able to underline, mark, comment etc, then keep the book. I don't often return, but its just what i do.
Amazon climbed a few notches when their search engines led to small bookstores accross the country (world?). I've found great stuff through Amazon on some dusty little shelf in a small store in Vermont...while i'm sitting home in Vegas. And i get it in two days, usually free.
Argueably best bookstore in the country, takes up a city block, two floors, you'll never get close to going through it in a day, new, used, in print, out, old shelves reaching to the ceiling...Powells in Portland, Oregon.
In case you didn't know, you can underline, mark, comment, etc when you're reading on a Kindle as well. And then you can go to a list of your various highlights and comments and see them and they'll link you back to the place in the book you were referring to. And you can keep the "book" and your various marks and notes for as long as you want either on the device or in Amazon's archives. I guess the last is only as good as Amazon stays in business, but I'm guessing they (or some version of them) will be around longer than I will. I'm reasonably sure every other ereader has the same basic set of features, but I don't have direct experience with them. I highlight a lot as I read, although I don't actually make a lot of notes - I just want to be able to call up specific sections quickly and easily and its really quick and easy once you've marked 'em.

But yeah, Amazon's ability to gets stuff from a zillion little obscure bookstores is great. I recently found a photo book about the Navajo that's 20 years old and has been out of print for about 19. It was dusty and shopworn, but I found a copy. Seemed pretty unlikely at the start.

-Ray

[bking]

In case you didn't know, you can underline, mark, comment, etc when you're reading on a Kindle as well. And then you can go to a list of your various highlights and comments and see them and they'll link you back to the place in the book you were referring to. And you can keep the "book" and your various marks and notes for as long as you want either on the device or in Amazon's archives. I guess the last is only as good as Amazon stays in business, but I'm guessing they (or some version of them) will be around longer than I will. I'm reasonably sure every other ereader has the same basic set of features, but I don't have direct experience with them. I highlight a lot as I read, although I don't actually make a lot of notes - I just want to be able to call up specific sections quickly and easily and its really quick and easy once you've marked 'em.

But yeah, Amazon's ability to gets stuff from a zillion little obscure bookstores is great. I recently found a photo book about the Navajo that's 20 years old and has been out of print for about 19. It was dusty and shopworn, but I found a copy. Seemed pretty unlikely at the start.

-Ray

Yeah, i know about the ability to mark etc, my wife uses hers all the time. But, i'm old and slow, and just like to mark it up with a pen. I also like 'em on my shelf after. Makes me feel smart...an allusion, but it's mine.
Information is coming at us too fast, in too many ways. Sometimes Ray "I'd like to stay in this state of mind", you know what I mean ;)
Good ol' books with creaky bindings and yellow paper. Probably won't even be missed in years to come. Shame.

[97CSI]

Good ol' books with creaky bindings and yellow paper. Probably won't even be missed in years to come. Shame.Can't miss what you've never experienced. Somehow, 'miss my Kindle' when everything is implanted in your brain with a microchip (the future) seems a bit different. Luddites arise!!

The bookstore Ray mentoned is in a great area to ride down along the Brandywine.

[Ray]

Yeah, i know about the ability to mark etc, my wife uses hers all the time. But, i'm old and slow, and just like to mark it up with a pen. I also like 'em on my shelf after. Makes me feel smart...an allusion, but it's mine.
Information is coming at us too fast, in too many ways. Sometimes Ray "I'd like to stay in this state of mind", you know what I mean ;)
Good ol' books with creaky bindings and yellow paper. Probably won't even be missed in years to come. Shame.
My sister, bless her pointy little heart, once responded to someone telling her what she was full of by saying, "hey, once I've gone to all the trouble of building up a whole set of illusions I'm comfortable with, I don't need the likes of you interfering with them". One of her best lines.

Illusions, allusions, they all work!

-Ray

[oliver1850]

.

[97CSI]

bibliophilia - 'tis but a gentle madness. :) Wife wants to move, but, neither of us is willing to pack and move the books. Think (hope) we are stuck for a while.

[Ray]

bibliophilia - 'tis but a gentle madness. :) Wife wants to move, but, neither of us is willing to pack and move the books. Think (hope) we are stuck for a while.
Boy, I HEAR that. Our downsizing move from house to condo was well timed with the advent of the ereader. We moved in summer 2007 and got rid of zillions of books. Sold a few at a yard sale but gave the vast majority of them away to schools, libraries, etc. Rooms full of them. We had just started to accumulate a few more when the Kindle came around. We have a library of a couple hundred books in our Amazon library since then and I'm REAL glad they all fit in a device the size of a paperback. We have about two bookshelves full of large books full of pics and graphics and photo-albums and I don't see us adding to them. Same thing with our music collection, but we'd moved that almost completely over to electronic copies before we downsized.

-Ray

[Louis]

A related NYT story:

A Book Lover’s San Francisco (http://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/05/travel/05SanFran.html?src=me&ref=general)

[bking]

Illusions, allusions, they all work!

-Ray[/QUOTE]

As you see, it is only an "I"llusion...

You did miss my reference to Riopelle.

Hope all is well in the cold, wet northeast. Close to 60 and sunny here in the desert.
Pull down one of those big photo books with pictures of the Sonoran Desert, maybe it'll warm you up!

[Ray]

Illusions, allusions, they all work!

-Ray

As you see, it is only an "I"llusion...

You did miss my reference to Riopelle.

Hope all is well in the cold, wet northeast. Close to 60 and sunny here in the desert.
Pull down one of those big photo books with pictures of the Sonoran Desert, maybe it'll warm you up![/QUOTE]
No, I caught it, but figured it was obscure enough not to get into because nobody ELSE knows who the hell he is what we'd be talking about.

Not wet back here, but it did finally get cold. I like it. Cold, but not brutally cold, a lot of sun, great for hikes with the pup. I don't ride in cold weather much anymore, but I've come to like winter. I have a photo book from the Northern AZ desert that I've been spending some time with lately. And working on some of my own - just got back scans of 600 of my old slides, many with AZ in them.

The Kindle, much as I like it, sucks for photo books!

-Ray

[Dekonick]

As you see, it is only an "I"llusion...

You did miss my reference to Riopelle.

Hope all is well in the cold, wet northeast. Close to 60 and sunny here in the desert.
Pull down one of those big photo books with pictures of the Sonoran Desert, maybe it'll warm you up!
No, I caught it, but figured it was obscure enough not to get into because nobody ELSE knows who the hell he is what we'd be talking about.

Not wet back here, but it did finally get cold. I like it. Cold, but not brutally cold, a lot of sun, great for hikes with the pup. I don't ride in cold weather much anymore, but I've come to like winter. I have a photo book from the Northern AZ desert that I've been spending some time with lately. And working on some of my own - just got back scans of 600 of my old slides, many with AZ in them.

The Kindle, much as I like it, sucks for photo books!

-Ray[/QUOTE]

Nook color isn't perfect but it helps... Photo books still have a place.

[97CSI]

Boy, I HEAR that. Our downsizing move from house to condo...
-RayParallel lives.......... We have a condo in Media (across from Cyclesport) that I've successfully avoided for three years. Hoping for at least three more.

[oliver1850]

.

[Louis]

I took this pic on my way through town on my ride today. I thought the book lovers might like it. I kind of grew up in this library. My grandmother was assistant librarian there for about 30 years.

Anyplace that values its libraries and bookstores is a good place IMO.

(My paternal grandfather used to own a bookstore and mother's a librarian...)

[19wisconsin64]

It's getting more and more difficult to find those great book stores, but some of the bigger cities still have them.

With technology getting better and better I've noticed that tens of thousands (!) of small booksellers are now listing their books on Amazon. There is often a preview of the first ten pages, so browsing is getting better. A lot of the rare books, though, have no preview, although this is getting better year by year.

Luckily, in New York City, we still have the Strand Bookstore....my go-to place for books.... if any book-lovers are ever in the City it's a must see!

In Kansas City, where I spend some time too, where the rents are much lower, there are more places where small bookstores with large inventories can get by. Prospero's Books is such a place.