Angry Threads of Carbon.

[thendenjeck]

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/hs1198.snc4/155058_480558893943_66770808943_5796296_584922_n.j pg

Madfiber wheels

[mike p]

Yours?

Mike

[thendenjeck]

nope, anyone got thoughts or experiences on these?

[rnhood]

I rode a century event a couple months ago with someone who had a pair on his Trek Madone. He loved them. He weighed 230 and said he owns just about every carbon wheel made that doesn't have a weight limit. He had been on these three months and they were easily his favorites. His only complaint was a slight whirring noise at speed.

Still seem like a lot of money to put in wheels. Given how my 7850 Shimano clinchers perform, I have no reason to spend any more on wheels.

[1centaur]

Search this forum for a terse exchange of knowledge vs. questions, or read a less directly combative equivalent on weightweenies. 11.4 is a fan so far and one of the more thoughtful product users in forum land. Early days yet if proof proof is the type of proof you seek.

[Chris]

I had a pair of Spinergys years ago until in the first race I did with them someone put his skewer in my spokes or vice versa. Regardless, the result was no more wheel. Metal spokes for me thank you.

[jghall]

As 1C says, there is quite the debate going on at WeightWeenies.

No personal experience at all, but would tend to lean toward the experience of 11.4, Pez, and some of the others who I trust.

[firerescuefin]

.....or let them get through at least a year or two's worth of use by the common public so a good sample group of production based wheels is out there.

They seem very cool and very light....and possibly very strong.

Edit: First off...I want to like these wheels (and have so far). I never make a point or statement trying to bait someone or be disagreeable. Pez and others are putting them through their paces and the results are promising. I genuinely hope this continues.

[Charles M]

Fire, I agree with you in that time will tell more, but I believe your choice of words is poor in suggesting some of us are "Speculating".


The wheels are in use. Heavy use... And a few of us have hands on in production and testing first hand. Comment on long term viability would be a mistake from any of us, But the comments on use and experience are not speculation at all.




http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash2/hs564.ash2/148604_1633794558767_1053776644_31768315_3827694_n .jpg

;)


http://www.pezcyclingnews.com/photos/charles/mad3.jpg


Finish quality is a lot better than the proto sets most published...


http://www.pezcyclingnews.com/photos/charles/mad1.jpg


And dont even think this is me...

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash2/hs385.ash2/66375_446706289579_270055264579_5457678_7247367_n. jpg



They're a nice set of hoops so far. I've had 2 sets here and the company has come a nice way in just the last couple of months.


They've been at it for two years in Dev on these and the guys involved are not underpowered when it comes to comp structures. I flew myself up to their place and liked what I saw.

The MOI on these is low... Lower than anything else I've been on next to Lightweight Obermeyers and or the POS Lew racing wheels (which I hate to bring up because there is virtually NOTHING similar between Lew and Madfiber except the MOI). The wheels feel another 150 grams lighter than their weight (and the actual weight has been either dead on or lower than Madfiber state...).

Solid Hub internals, tensioned and relatively flexible bendible spokes, Good fab process... The most telling part of the trip is that I got to break things when I went to see em. EVERY factory tour should have that to give media better perspective.

There's no wind up and reasonable side flex...


At 2499, these seem like a hell of a wheel set relative to the market. Time will tell, but time doesnt neccesarily change first impressions and I have a pretty good first impression. Long term durability is tough for me to comment on, but there are sets of these with a lot of miles already. Mad have long since passed the point that Lew started having issues for instance.

[AngryScientist]

good write-up and great pics, thanks Pez.

[Pete Serotta]

good write-up and great pics, thanks Pez.

Hope to meet him him in Austin, :beer: PETE (Angry Scientist come and get Mike to come)


PETE

[Pete Serotta]

good write-up and great pics, thanks Pez.

Hope to meet him in Austin, :beer: PETE (Angry Scientist come and get Mike to come)


PETE

[mpetry]

Ric Hjertberg has assembled a world class team and in developing these wheels, and cracked what I think is the magic "nut" that has limited carbon wheel design so far - that is, the Mad Fiber wheels have spoke tension. Only the ADA and Lightweight wheels have anything similar. Tension is of course what makes the convenional wheel feel resilient and lively.

I wish Ric and his team the best of luck and I hope to be on a set of MadFibers sometime in the coming year.

Mark Petry
Bainbridge Island, WA

[spartacus]

[QUOTE=PezTech]
The MOI on these is low... Lower than anything else I've been on next to Lightweight Obermeyers and or the POS Lew racing wheels (which I hate to bring up because there is virtually NOTHING similar between Lew and Madfiber except the MOI). The wheels feel another 150 grams lighter than their weight (and the actual weight has been either dead on or lower than Madfiber state...).
[QUOTE=PezTech]

This is all a bit too HTT ('high tech talk') for moi.

For those of us present not yet fluent in acronymish gobbledigook, what is MOI?

[R2D2]

Ric Hjertberg has assembled a world class team and in developing these wheels, and cracked what I think is the magic "nut" that has limited carbon wheel design so far - that is, the Mad Fiber wheels have spoke tension. Only the ADA and Lightweight wheels have anything similar. Tension is of course what makes the convenional wheel feel resilient and lively.

I wish Ric and his team the best of luck and I hope to be on a set of MadFibers sometime in the coming year.

Mark Petry
Bainbridge Island, WA

Not quite following. Easton carbon rimmed wheels have very high spoke tension.

[1centaur]

MOI http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moment_of_inertia

I think the spoke tension comment refers to carbon spokes.

[R2D2]

MOI http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moment_of_inertia

I think the spoke tension comment refers to carbon spokes.

Ahhhhhhhhh..........

[Charles M]

MOI for bike wheels is usually just a result of less weight out at the rim of the wheel... (a simple view, 10 grams of rim weight is worse than 10 grams of hub weight because you have to spend the energy to move it further to spin the wheel)

Lower MOI means when you step on the pedal they rotate with a little less effort. They also lean / turn / hanlde a little quicker with less Gyro effect (your wheels turning are what keeps you upright on a bike and the heavier and faster a wheel is rotating, the harder it is to twist it.)



The spoke tensio for carbon wheels is a little bit of a topic (for nerds) because some companies Lew Racing / Reynolds RZR, Mavic Rsys dont seem to have had very god luck with a variable play on "tension" along with super rigid spokes... The Madfiber spokes are very flexible and the wheels is built under a pretty normal version of tension (although the structure is a little different than other builds).

[rice rocket]

Carbon spokes shouldn't need to be pretensioned.

Metal spokes are done so to put the spokes near the end of it's elastic range, but not into plastic deformation. Carbon doesn't really stretch.

Disclaimer: all in theory, of course. I'm no wheelnut. :rolleyes:

[Mike748]

The difference is in whether the carbon spoke can take compression loading. Other wheels with rigid carbon spokes and no tension have some of the spokes in tension and some in compression all the time. These wheels with flexible carbon spokes can't take any compression (the spokes will bend) so they are pretensioned so that they are always loaded in tension.

Think of it as hanging from the upper spokes vs sitting on the lower ones.

[Charles M]

Guys, these spokes behave a lot like standard spokes... That they dont "stretch" is true but an incomplete thought because in the application of being a wheel spoke, a spoke has to hold a rim securely in place. Tension in a flexible wheel spoke is pretty much the only way that happens.

Part of the problem with rigid / solid spokes versus flexible is that they're fairly brittle. The Madfiber spokes will allow for more deflection under impact than a rigid carbon spoke. But some relatively rigid spokes also resist impact pretty well (Topolino).


It's not always a bad thing to have rigid spokes. Lightweight and Topolino have fairly rigid spokes but they also use tension so that the spokes are stressed more to the strength of the material (which is not compression).

[pbjbike]

I wish Ric and his team the best of luck and I hope to be on a set of MadFibers sometime in the coming year.

Mark Petry
Bainbridge Island, WA

Really? I thought you preferred traditional handbuilt wheels... ;)

[Charles M]

There's more hand work in a set of Mads than what "traditional" sets do...

But the Madfiber guy isn't exactly unattached to traditional. He founded Wheelsmith (http://www.wheelsmith.com/aboutwheelsmith.html) and will have to build Madfibers for a few years to break even with the number of even wood rim hoops.