Tubulars for All the Wrong Reasons

[dirtdigger88]

That is probably why I am buying them- I just want to try them out- I have ordered a set of DA10/Reflex wheels from Texas CycleSport (http://txcyclesport.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=SFNT&Store_Code=M) Those guys are great to work with and I am still in love with the DA10/ Open Pro wheelset they built me last month. So now the question is which tires- before we start- yes sir jerk I know what you are going to say- lets say I will work my way up to the Dugasts someday- but I am not starting there ;)

I run Vittoria Open Corsa clincher on my bike now- I am considering the Open Corsa tubbie so that I can do an honest side to side comparison between the tubbies and clinchers- using wheels that are about as close as possible- My other though was the Tufo- I like the idea of the sealant for flat repairs-

Here is what I am wondering though- with the Tufos you get a slightly lower thread count- a slightly heavier tire (if I use the sealant all the time) I just wonder if the Tufos are sort of a stop point between good clinchers and good tubbies- I have spoken to a few people who seem to like their tufos-

These tires will not be "Race Day" tires- though I guess on the rare occasion that I race I will use them- No, what I want is a nice set to use as training tires- If I like the ride- I will use them as everyday wheels- I guess it just depends on how the wheels work out

Interesting side note- I went to four shops yesterday to talk about tubular tires- most shops looked at me with horror when I said I wasnt looking for a race day only tire- "Why would you ever want to use Tubulars? Oh the horror!!" I answered each and every one the same way- Because I want to. Actually one guy in one of the shops just smiled at me and said "I get what you are doing. Why not use tubulars- If you dont try you will never know" He was the only one I spoke to who actually uses tubbies currently- I am guessing I will be buying from him-

So which tire should I try-- and why

Jason

[saab2000]

I have never used the Tufos, though they are intriguing. But what I have read about them is that they are a bit less supple than the best tubulars.

If you look around you can get Veloflex at a reasonable price and Gommitalia (the best ones) are also good, though I think they are just rebadged Veloflexes.

Of the two you mentioned, I would be inclined to go with the Vittorias. They will probably ride more like a tubular should ride.

Let the flames begin.

[M_A_Martin]

Ha! Jason, I bought a set of wheels for tubulars last year for the exact same reason...

Just because I want to try them! How do I know what I'm missing or not missing if I don't put the things on my bike and try them out! Listening to other people put them down or sing their praises does nothing for me...I have to try them myself.

[LegendRider]

Tufo Elite Road - most durable tubular out there in my experience, fine for everyday use, round with no bulges, probably more rolling resistance than others

Conti Sprinter - likely to get votes but I've had bad luck with flats and bulges at the valve stem

Veloflex - highly regarded, email critusa@aol.com for best prices

Vittori Corsa CX - very nice, interesting to compare side by side with their "open tubular"

[dirtdigger88]

Ha! Jason, I bought a set of wheels for tubulars last year for the exact same reason...

Just because I want to try them! How do I know what I'm missing or not missing if I don't put the things on my bike and try them out! Listening to other people put them down or sing their praises does nothing for me...I have to try them myself.

so what is your take- The most honest answer I think I have ever gotten on the ride quality of tubbies is this- I was told that I probably wont notice much difference between tubbies and my Open Corsa going straight down the road- I will notice the difference when I throw the bike into a hard corner- that make sence with the shape difference of tubbies and clinchers-

Jason

[FlaRider]

Highly recommend the Vittoria Open Corsa tubulars. They ride like a dream. That said, I run them on my race-only Reynolds Stratus carbon wheels, which are incredibly stiff and fast, so part of the reason the tires ride so well may be the wheels themselves.

[saab2000]

My Grandis (pictured in the custom gallery) had tubulars on it. I also have a set of clincher wheels which I have used. They are very similar except one is clincher and one is tubular.

When I went once and exchanged the wheels from the tubulars to the clinchers I was stunned. I have been riding for 20 years and have mostly used clinchers over the years, though I also have a fair amount of experience on tubulars. This was truly a back to back comparison and there was definitely a difference. The tubulars felt light and lively and crisp. The clinchers (Open CXs from Vittorias, compared to tubular CXs) felt wooden and dead. It hurts to say this, because these were good clinchers and are neither wooden nor dead. But compared directly they felt like it.

The clincher rims are heavier, as are the rim stips and inner tubes.

I now have a set of Nucleons with Conti Sprinters. I have never liked sprinters, but these came with the wheels. Thusfar they have been good. They don't lose their pressure and they seem durable. But the base tape is separating from the tire and that is bad news. They will be replaced with Veloflex Crits.

[ergott]

I speak as someone who doesn't ride clinchers ever. I liked Conti Sprinters. They are a better buy then the Competitions. They weight almost the same so I don't see why the Competitions are more than twicw the price. The problem with Contis is that they aren't very round.

I currently have and like the new Zipps which are hand made. A bonus is that they're all black which I like. They are similar to the Vittoria high end tubs. I know a lot of riders that love the Tufo 215 gram tubs. With sealant, they are about the same weight as their competitors.

One of the nicest tires I have ridden is the Veloflex. Very high thread count and great ride. The downside is that they are pricey and I don't like scraping the latex off the base tape. The Zipps and Tufos don't have this.

I will continue the ride the Zipps because it is a great tire and I get a good deal on them. If I could get the same deal on them with Tufos, I would make a better effort to actually compare them. They are bothe good and can be found at a reasonable price.

-Eric

[Spicoli]

Hey, Dirt
I've used Tufo's and they were tuff as nails but I find they ride and roll like poop. I cannot remember which Vittoria's I used (ex,,zv,r,corsxyz?) but they had an awesome ride and if you like the clinchers you'll probably love the tubs.
Saab is right on about the Gommitalias nothing great nothing bad and not to hard on the wallet. Veloflex are IMO right there with the Vittorias and maybe a bit better. Also I am currently STILL using sprinters eventhough you may have heard about my luck with them, although I never flatted them while training I just seam to have that joy during races and the tufo stuff works in them but its just a little harder to get it in there. If you like the Vit clinchers go with the tub version.

Hope I helped, Jeff

[bostondrunk]

I vote for sprinters, but do admit they aren't the most round and do sometimes have a small buldge at the valve stem. I tried tufos, and both flatted, and the white goo didn't do anything to fix them.
The other nice thing about sprinters is that they are relatively cheap, and can take high pressure if your into that.

[MartyE]

The Zipps are Tufo's as far as I can tell.

I've been riding conti sprinters consistently for the past
2 years without much problem. I have one that has a slow
leak (pump every 2 or 3 days) which isn't all that much of a bother.
I have a pair of Tufo Elite roads waiting to be mounted.

Deda Tre ( from deda elementi) have 2 tubulars available
here in the states, the Mondial an inexpensive ($20) training
tire, and the Olimpico (less than $50), a 260 gram 22mm tire.
Gumwall sides for that traditional look too. The Olimpico is
lighter than conti sprinters, better rolling resistance, 300tpi tire,
it is probably a bit less better wearing tire than the sprinter.
best thing about the dedas is they are round! (even the cheapos).

Marty

[dirtdigger88]

I spoke to the shop about the Conti Sprinter (the tread looks sweet to me) I was told that the contis dont streatch out as much as other tubbies- so mounting them was harder- something to think about out on the road- I have heard mixed reviews on the contis- but I always used them on my MTB-

Jason

[ergott]

The Zipps are Tufo's as far as I can tell.

Marty

They did a redesign last year sometime. They are very different than the old Zipp tires.

-Eric

[Too Tall]

I'm really really being a Ditto head.

Tufo Road Elite - Tough tough tough high mileage tyre. I run these for commuting with "Tube Spooge" sealant (Rock n' Roll) which seems to seal to a higher PSI and last longer than Tufo brand. Just becuase for no good reason I raced these in a crit a few weeks back and they stuck just fine. Not the sticky death grip that my Veloflex or fresh Vittoria's have.

Veloflex Crits - Yowza! Ride quality is noticable more supple than Tufo Elite. They are race only in my book or for clean roads. They have the best cornering grip of any tire I've ever ridden and quality is super. I did have a base tape come loose on one tire but I'm willing to chalk that up to bad luck.

Conti Sprinter - That's my "go to" tubular. Price ,in bulk buy, is lower than most mediocre clinchers! Ride quality is very nice and a notch below race day tires such as Veloflex and Vittoria's however cornering is really excellent and grippy. I've never had base tape issues and are the only tubs. I've consistently "worn out" rather than tossed or had to repair and relegate to a spare.

Clemente Strada TT - you can get these true "training tub" at 3 for $50!!! They weigh 300 grams and are well made...nice and round. That are NOT race day tires. These are what you trash on dirt roads, commuting, cold weather etc. Ride quality is a notch below Sprinters if you run recommended PSI. They are quite round and have an excellent latex free cotton base tape that is a joy to glue up. Again, they AIN'T race day tires however I did race them this yr. in a training crit and derrr, they were fine. I would not dive into a hard corner with confidence...the grip is not as good as sprinter's. These are the ONLY real live training tub I've found worth buying.

As Paul Harvey said "and now you have the rest of the story".

[saab2000]

I just went looking at www.labicicletta.com and they have terrific prices. But practically all the good ones are out of stock.....

[Too Tall]

http://www.worldclasscycles.com/tubular-price2.htm

Great prices esp. on bulk buys, you can mix and match and deal with mom and pop-types. Enjoy, Josh.

[dirtdigger88]

Ok- I decided to go with the Vittorias- I figure this way I will have as close of set ups on both wheels as is humanly possible- I can really decide on how the two tires ride compared to one another- I got a pretty good deal on the tires I think- $175 for 3 tires- tax and all- The wheels should be in in a week- so we will see what is what- thanks for the help-

Jason

[sspielman]

I like Veloflex Criteriums and do 99% of all of my riding on them, but I have tried just about every brand of tubular. At 143 lbs, I find the ride of Continentals and Tufos to be a bit harsh....why not just use clinchers? Vittorias seem to have improved on their spotty quality control, but I still hear about base tape peeling problems....those problems belong to somebody else, because I will not subject my safety to the shoddy quality control of a far-eastern-made tire. The good Gommitalias (Platinum) are indeed made by Veloflex. I find the Veloflex tires to be very puncture resistant and they have all kinds of grip..In my experience, they are pretty close to being the perfect tire. I am sure that the Dugasts are similar, but there is no way that they are twice as good...as their cost would indicate.

[dirtdigger88]

I have been pleased with my vittoria clinchers- during the first month I was concerned- I was showing a fair amount of nicks and cuts in the tires- but now it is like 6 months later and the tires are still holding up well- I realize I am not going to get the life out of these like other tires- but I am willing to give that up for the ride quality

Jason

[spiderman]

and flatting out both of my new dugasts in as many weeks...
...i bought a pair of vittoria corsas with red side walls...
the kevlar is indeed puncture resistant
and they roll as smooth as the silky smooth dugasts.
granted, the vittorias are only up to the 500 mile mark
but after riding over glass
the tubular is unaffected and performing beautifully.
i also bought a pair of tufos at the lbs yesterday
just in case!
the vittorias by the way
were $50 per tire on ebay...
best ride per dollar-mile i've ridden~

[jeffhall]

I have ridden all of the above mentioned tires and stick with the S3's. Light (VERY) and strong. I got new ones the other day and we had no S3's so now on S33. Very strong, not as light, but very good.

[OldDog]

and maybe a silly question, as I have not riddin tubies for a really long time.

If the feel of tubes can really only be appreciated from good clinchers while diving a hard turn, how would the Rolly Polly clincher stack up to a fairly good tubie?

[sspielman]

and maybe a silly question, as I have not riddin tubies for a really long time.

If the feel of tubes can really only be appreciated from good clinchers while diving a hard turn, how would the Rolly Polly clincher stack up to a fairly good tubie?

If a good tubular is like Alessandro Petacchi, the Rolly Polly is like Louie Anderson.......

[OldDog]

Then that may be a good thing. If both Anderson and Petacchi jumped off a building Anderson would out sprint Petacchi...

[bostondrunk]

I have ridden all of the above mentioned tires and stick with the S3's. Light (VERY) and strong. I got new ones the other day and we had no S3's so now on S33. Very strong, not as light, but very good.

I had just the opposite experience with tufos. To their credit, they seem to be built very exact, in that they mount very straight, no bumps, etc.
But both my S3 lites flatted before the tread even began to wear, and that white crap did nothing.
I've never actually repaired a tubie, and I think I'm too lazy to start. That is one of the main reasons I like conti sprinters. Aside from the fact that they are cheap, they are super tuff, and 9 times out of 10 I wear them out before I ever get a flat on them. They can also hold tons of pressure. The only thing I don't like about them is that some of them (well, probably most) have a bit of a bump near the valve, but I don't notice it while riding.

[Ray]

Ok- I decided to go with the Vittorias- I figure this way I will have as close of set ups on both wheels as is humanly possible- I can really decide on how the two tires ride compared to one another

Do me a favor. If you really really really love the tubies and swear off of clinchers forever, please don't report on this here. I've resisted trying tubies because I'm pretty sensitive to changes in gear and I suspect I'd love 'em, and I really don't want to go through the hassle and expense of a massive conversion project for multiple bikes. Which I'd probably be obligated to do, knowing myself as I do. So, if they're extremely and exceedingly wonderful beyond all belief, keep it to yerself, eh?

Yeah, RIIIIIGGGGHHHHT!

-Ray

[vaxn8r]

Ray, I've done both ways on several different bikes. I'll probably get slammed but you're simply not missing that much.

I think you could probably notice a little difference, if you really concentrate on it. But other things, like tire pressure, tire width, maybe a different pair of shorts will make just as much difference. How many, when they make comparisons between clinchers and tubies, are even comparing the same wheel? Are the spoke count's equal, rim depth and width, lacing patterns...all equal?

I do love the new sew up tape though. That is cool! Away with sticky fingers and rims.

[weisan]

Ray, how's your **never-expired** vacation going so far, are you enjoying it? :)

I've got a set of tub wheels which I rarely use but I'm taking them out to do a long ride (100+) tomorrow. Still, if you ask me if I prefer clinchers or tubs, I would be hard pressed to say I like one over the other. I suspect part of it is because I don't race and those tubs like to be pushed to their limits in order to see their performance benefits, at least that's my understanding.

[dirtdigger88]

How many, when they make comparisons between clinchers and tubies, are even comparing the same wheel? Are the spoke count's equal, rim depth and width, lacing patterns...all equal?

that is what I am going to try-

Both wheels sets will be DT DB spokes 3x 32 spoke count

Both will have DA 10 hubs

Clinchers have Open Pro rims- Tubbies will have reflex

Both wheels are built by the same person

My clincher tires are Vittoria Open Corsa- depending on conditions I run between 100 and 120 psi

Tubbies will be Vittoria Open Corsa-

No it is not exact- but honestly I think it is as close as one can get-

Jason

[vaxn8r]

that is what I am going to try-


No it is not exact- but honestly I think it is as close as one can get-

Jason
Yeah, curious what you think. I've just never felt like there was a night or day thing. Of course I never spent more than about $80 on a sew up tire. For clinchers I prefer Michelins but am OK with Conti's, Vredsteins... For sewups I've used Vitorrias, Contis, I have some Tufos right now. Maybe if I got those Dugasts...

I just don't think it's a huge deal. It's a little deal and it comes with drawbacks..like carrying spares, double flats on one ride (over the years it has happened a few times), longer tire mounting prep (though again, the tape helps mitigate that aspect). If I were a pro and had a car behind me and maybe somebody funding my $250 tires, yeah, why not sew ups?

[Ray]

Ray, how's your **never-expired** vacation going so far, are you enjoying it? :)

Enjoying it - Uhhhh, YEAH!! I'm just the proverbial pig in slop at this point. Wake up, see my wife and kids out the door, walk the dog (sometimes along with my daughter on her way to school), do a half hour or 45 mintues of yoga, have a very relaxed breakfast, read the paper and email for a bit, out for a ride by about 10 or 11 (when the weather's decent - no need to ride in the rain when tomorrow's always open for riding), back in time for the kids to start getting home from school. All the time in the world to do the little things that need doing. Everything at a MUCH less hurried pace (except for some of the riding). And I'm doing so much riding during the week that I'm totally available to the family on weekends. What exactly would be not to like?

It's only been a month and I'm open to the possibility that boredom could become an issue eventually, but I don't seem to have any trouble filling my days at this point. And I may already be hopelessly addicted to not having a real schedule. When I do get back to some sort of gainful employment, I believe I'll have to go out independently, rather than join another office and get back into a set routine.

In terms of the riding, finally starting to feel the beginnings of fitness coming on again. As much as I loved the ride of the new Spectrum right off the bat, it took a little while to get the position fully dialed (this always seems to happen with new or reconfigured bikes). But I finally seem to have it nailed down perfectly and I'm gonna ride that thing into the ground this season. The occasional ride on the Riv or RB-1, but the lion's share of miles go to the Spectrum at this point.

I'll let you all know if it starts to suck :cool:

-Ray

[Needs Help]

What size are all these tubular tires? Does anyone ride 25mm tubulars? Do they make them? Are tubular rims made in different widths to accomodate different size tubular tires, or is there a standard width that will accomodate any tubular tire?

Thanks.

[weisan]

Ray, thanks for the update. Enjoy this time you have as I am sure it will go down in memory as unique and even instrumental in deciding some of the things you do later.

Back to the topic of tubulars. This morning I dusted off the only set of tubular wheels I got (Mavic Heliums) and used it to do a 85-miles ride. I cannot tell you whether it's the tubulars or the mavic wheels but I actually enjoyed the experience. First of all, those Mavic hubs are silky smooth compared to my cane creek regular training wheels, and they just roll and roll without much effort and resistance, it's pretty amazing. I think I am going to ride them again in the next few rides to decide how I like them...or not. :D
As a sidenote, this morning on a couple of occasions, I did try to test out the much-touted cornering abilities of tubulars by diving deep into them, it does feel like they are gripping the road better and induces more confidence. BTW, the tubulars I have on right now are the Conti Triathlons, which I believe has stopped production and might have been a predecessor to now what is known as the Conti Sprinters, I don't know for sure, those who know please correct me if I am wrong.

weisan

[saab2000]

I think Dugast makes some pretty wide tubulars. But Dugasts are prohibitively expensive for most riders. There are a few wide ones made by other manufacturers.

Rims are more or less the same width I guess, with a few mm variance. But tubular tires more or less fit all rims. The rim tape is the same on all tires AFAIK and this is what counts as this is where all the glue is concentrated.

The Veloflexes are advertised at 22 mm. I can't wait 'til I can get some.

[Too Tall]

Saab-ster - I'l make your wait a little worse. Did an 80K RR today in good conditions and was putting 25-50 foot gaps on the pack in two diff. downhill 90 degree corners. The Veloflex Crits inspire confidence...don't over pump them...totally defeats the GRIP-OF-DEATH these things have. They are glued up to my carbon Nimbles and after the race I head straight for my car...wheels go inna bag and on go the training tubs with TUFO Road Elites.

All tubb'd up and no place to go :)

[weisan]

...don't over pump them...totally defeats the GRIP-OF-DEATH these things have.

Tall-pal, is there a rule of thumb as far as how much air goes into the tubulars? I know these cats can take in pretty high PSI but like you said don't want to pump them too high, so what's the magic number? Thanks!

weisan

[saab2000]

I normally pump up my tires to about 8 Bars or about 115 PSI. I would guess that about the same holds true for tubulars, though I would think that about 100 PSI is also OK.

I will have to wait at least a few weeks to get some Veloflexes. I simply cannot justify the cost right now.

For some odd reason when I have to choose between eating and paying rent and getting Veloflex tubulars the eating usually wins out.

[Too Tall]

Follow mfg. label. Usually the low number is right. I pump them to 120/115 psi.

[weisan]

Thank you Saab, thank you tall-pal.

I thought I was high at 100 PSI...but now I know, I am waaaaaay low. But it makes one cu-shi ride. :p

[theprep]

DirtDigger

I see you chose the Vittoria's (great tire). If you have not seen it, you might want to check out the most recent Tech article in Velonews.com. It talks about glueing tubulars and the need to scrape the latex off of the base tape on Corsa's.

Also - I had to drill the valve hole a little bigger on my Velocity Escapes to accept the larger than normal valve stem (bulge) on the Corsa's.

cheers
Joe

[Ozz]

Mr Dirt,

I don't know if you searched the forum for this info, but last year when I picked up some tubular wheels, I found some good posts by "theoldman" about tubies. This one has some pretty straightforward instructions for mounting the tires:

Tubulars... easy if you have time

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quality tubular tires are great to ride on. Cheap ones are not worth considering.

Gluing a tire on a rim is not hard at all, but it does take more time than installing a clincher. Ther first time you mount a pair of tubulars on a new set of wheels, it could take days instead of an hour.

Step 1. Prestretch tire on rim (30 minutes to do, wait 2 days).
Step 2. Remove tire, clean rim, put down a layer of glue on rim, wait a day.
Step 3. Put down another layer of glue on rim, wait a day.
Step 4. Put down another layer of glue on rim, a thin layer of glue on tire, wait 45 minutes.
Step 4. Stretch tire onto rim. Inflate to 30/40 psi. Straighten tire on rim.
Step 5. Inflate tire to 120psi. Wait 12 hours.
Step 6. Go ride.

The likelyhood of getting a flat on the road with a quality tubular is about the same as with a quality clincher, or less. But if you get a flat, you remove the old tire, strech on your spare, pump it up (CO2 is fine) and ride away. Total time to change a tire, less than 5 minutes.

The only gotcha in the process is that getting the old tire off. It can be difficult at times. It helps if you have a plastic tire lever to help you get the first part of the tire off. Once you get the tire off in one spot, the rest comes off without a problem.

After installing the spare, you do not have the luxury of riding like a maniac. While the tire will be fine for riding, descending the alps through a series of switchbacks at full speed will get you into trouble! The tire is secure, but it is not as secure as a properly glued tire.

When you get home, take off the spare and glue it on properly. I have ridden a spare without properly doing the re-glue for a month. Not recommened, but I did not have a problem either.


Unlike most people, my spare tire is always a new (or semi-new), but pre-stretched/glued tire. The way I figure it, if I do flat, I want to have new rubber on the road, not an old tire. I can count on one hand how often I have had to change a tire on the road and I have been riding tubulars on and off since '74. But if I am going on a very long ride, I will also include a patch kit. Patching a tubular tire on the road is not fun, but it can be done in less than 30 minutes if necessary. In all my years of riding, it has never happened that I have had two flats on tubulars on the same ride, but I assume it could happen.


I always fix my tires if they flat unless they are old. It takes less than 30 minutes to patch a tubular.


I am currently using Continental Competition tubulars. They are a dependable tire that rides very well. They are a PITA to mount when they are new. But after they are stretched, they are a joy to use. One of the nice things about them is that they do not lose air presssure like some of the other tubulars. Most tubulars use latex tubes, which are great, but they lose air pressure very quickly. At least with the conti's, the pressure holds for a number of days.

In today's world, tubulars are a luxury item. You need the luxury of time and the econmic means to purchase quality tires and mount them. If you have little money and little time for the rituals of mounting tubulars, you are best to stay away. But if you can afford the time and money to set up a bike with quality tubular tires, you will be rewarded with a great ride, grins and easy on road tire changes.


A good web posting on the subject can be found at :
http://www.bsn.com/Cycling/tubulars.html

A tubular and clincher rider.

Let us know how it goes!

[dirtdigger88]

thanks Ozz-

ok dumb tubular question number 2- how do you patch a tubular? I ordered three tires (one for the spare) but I am not "diggin" the though of tossing a tire after a flat- I know there has to be someway of repair- please tell

Jason

[bostondrunk]

Tear off the base tape, cut the threads holding the tire together, pull out tube, repair, put tube back in, sew up tire, re-apply the base tape (not sure what to use for this....anyone?).

<burp>

[Ozz]

thanks Ozz-

ok dumb tubular question number 2- how do you patch a tubular? I ordered three tires (one for the spare) but I am not "diggin" the though of tossing a tire after a flat- I know there has to be someway of repair- please tell

Jason
I've never done it...but it is something along the lines of:

Locate the hole
Peel back the base tape
Cut the tire open
Pull out tube and patch
Sew tire back up
Glue base tape back on....

I am sure this would take me about 4 hours and the tire would be ruined in the process....so tossing the tire and getting a new one is appealing to me.

Somewhere on the forum, someone posted a link to a guy who repairs tubulars for $20 each (or some absurdly reasonable price).

[dirtdigger88]

http://www.sheldonbrown.com/brandt/tubular-repair.html

answering my own questions

web page for tire repair

http://www.tirealert.com/

Jason

[NateM]

Here is the website for the guy who will fix your flat mentioned in the above post http://www.tirealert.com/ beware; they put a new butyl tube in, not latex

[Needs Help]

Give us a report when you get some riding time in on your tubulars.

I was reading a series of posts by Jobst Brandt, and although he says he rode tubulars in the old days, he doesn't ride them anymore. He says his tests show there isn't any improvement in ride quality and he says they are unsafe in the mountains. He also describes a 'thermal insulating' layer he put under his tubulars to make them safer in the mountains. If anyone is interested:

http://yarchive.net/bike/tubulars.html

And, Sheldon Brown says that one of the cons of tubulars is they have higher rolling resistence than a good clincher:

http://www.sheldonbrown.com/tires.html

He also notes that any weight savings with a tubular is negated if you carry an extra tire with you.

[Too Tall]

Dirtman, want to come to Merryland? I'll teach you the fine art of care and feeding tubulars in excange for landscaping :) But serioulsy, I prolly have a worn out tubie I can send you to practice repair on. It is easier than it sounds and backinnaday I repaired them by the side of the road in 15-20 mins. The innertubes are very flexible and you can yank out a good foot of tube by pushing the carcass out of the way (1/2 each side of the opening) so you only need to find the hole with reasonable accuracy. Than it's a simple patch job, straighten things up and be about your bid-nis ;)

The Velosnooze piece has my phone ringing. All my pals who have tubies are calling all worried :rolleyes:

My take on the "snap off" effect is when folks fail to use a "clean solvent" to thoroughly clean the rim with a cotton cloth until it comes back clean. I've made the same mistake and it took ALOT of freakin' work to re-clean the rim...get the residue off the wheel and back on track.

Trust me, I have glued many carbon rims with all the glues mentioned and not a bummer in the lot. We even run a tubie on a carbon wheel on the tandem (TT / race only). Anybody want to see if they can remove it with no tools just hands???? I double dog dareyah.

[CalfeeFly]

I'm in the same situation as the original poster having just added a tubular wheelset. It is one of several wheelsets and a nice change. I went Tufo for some added flat protection so the ride is similar to a good clincher. I had 2 Road Elites and now one of those and one S33 Special. To be honest the only difference I can tell is about $20. If I had Veloflex or Dugast I know the ride would be improved. There is just way too much glass in Pittsburgh.

I went tubular to have a very strong quite bomb proof wheelset that is about 1400 grams or a little less. The Crono F20 is a strong rim and only 310 grams. That combined with Sapim Race except on the drive side and King hubs I have a light, strong and responsive wheelset which is a nice change of pace. When they come in my other wheelset for that bike will be Elan Aero's.

If I was going to have one wheelset it would be clincher. As a nice change of pace it is nice.

A solution to the weight of a spare is to buy a high end track tubular. I have 140 gram tire for my spare. It worked great to finish my ride and then it went back in my bag with my tool.

Take care.

[Too Tall]

Calfee - I'm nearly ready to endorse without reservation Toob Spooge for TUFO's...I say nearly because I can't for sure tell if some of the tiny black spots on the red carcass are infact punctures that sealed. However, I have more than 2k on these tires and allmost all of it commuting through the city (plus a criterium) each day so surely???? Anyway, I tested the spooge on a clapped out TUFO and it held to 110 psi and stayed sealed whereas the TUFO sealant was only good to 80ish psi at best and was prone to losing it's laytex plug...spraying sealant...losing air and re-sealing at a lower psi. I was NOT happy with that.

Toob Spooge and TUFO sealant must not be mixed. If you use it start with a fresh tyre...use the supplied airline tube to run the gunk into the tire and run it in very slowly or it will clog.

Toob Spooge is not for regular tubies...tubeless tyres only.

[MartyE]

Building on what TooTall said,
Tufo sealant won't work for regular tubulars
either, spews sealant all over the place no matter what
the PSI.
TooTall you mention an airline tube, did that come
with the Spooge or the Tufo sealant?

thanks,
Marty

[marle]

Great article on page 70 on the difficult marriage between carbon rims and tubulars. The roll / glue failure bond appears to be catastrophic when torque is applied to the point of maximum adhesion. That is, tubulars will 'snap' off a carbon rim. In contrast, tubulars tend to peel off at the same point on an aluminum rim which allows for the possibiliity of readhesion if the torque is relieved.

The article also details the importance of allowing enough time to apply glues correctly.

[saab2000]

That sounds like an interesting test. I have sometimes thought of oneday, when my budget allows, splurging on a set of Campagnolo Hyperons. Since I don't race anymore this sheering effect would probably not matter to me, but it surely raises the eyebrows of anyone who races on carbon rims.

[CalfeeFly]

Calfee - I'm nearly ready to endorse without reservation Toob Spooge for TUFO's...I say nearly because I can't for sure tell if some of the tiny black spots on the red carcass are infact punctures that sealed. However, I have more than 2k on these tires and allmost all of it commuting through the city (plus a criterium) each day so surely???? Anyway, I tested the spooge on a clapped out TUFO and it held to 110 psi and stayed sealed whereas the TUFO sealant was only good to 80ish psi at best and was prone to losing it's laytex plug...spraying sealant...losing air and re-sealing at a lower psi. I was NOT happy with that."


I'm not familiar with Toob Spooge. Could you give a complete rundown. What is it? :confused:

[Too Tall]

Both you guyz - Toob Spooge is from the same fellow who makes Rock n' Roll lubes and it is for tubeless tires such as TUFOs and some mtn and a few road bike tyres newish to the market. Like I said before don't go rushing out to buy...I am running it in my TUFOs for now for about 2k and tested it on a clapped out TUFO a while back...looks much more promising for us roadies than the TUFO sealant...which I reckon is for off road use with lower PSI expectations. Clear as mud?

[CalfeeFly]

I like his lube...it will be awhile (hopefully) until I need it.

Come to Pittsburgh and test it out. We have all sorts of glass you can ride through! :D