Ti Frame

[CyclingGuru]

I am thinking about getting another Ti frame..I own a Moots, and a Seven..but I really would like to get another. What is your opinion on who I should go to and what brand?

[Ken Robb]

I never rode a better ti bike than my Legend.

[thendenjeck]

If

[CyclingGuru]

Where can you look at them? Is pricing decent?

[jeo99]

+1
I have owned a Seven Axiom but sold it and kept the Legend. I have often viewed Moots but the detail is not comparible IMHO.
:beer:

Look here: http://www.serotta.com/Bikes/Road/LegendSE/
or go to the dealer section on this website.

I never rode a better ti bike than my Legend.

[DRZRM]

I'd agree with both above posts. I love my Legend road frame, and I love my IF ti planet-x. These are two companies at the top of their games.

[54ny77]

Kish or Hampsten.

[champ]

A few really good custom Ti frame builders: Eriksen, Holland, Temple, Crisp, Moots, Alchemy

[Smiley]

A few really good custom Ti frame builders: Eriksen, Holland, Temple, Crisp, Moots, Alchemy
Add Kbedfordcustoms.com to that list

[rePhil]

You have a Moots. Besides the others mentioned ,how about Baum?

http://www.baumcycles.com/

[rePhil]

I didn't know he did Ti? Got a link to any?


Add Kbedfordcustoms.com to that list

[maxdog]

Gotta love this forum. What other propriatery site would tolerate this?
I have a Moots, Peg, 3rensho and a Sachs (said in a revered tone) and my old Colorado steel Serotta, except for weight considerations, is a match in ride quality to any of them, imho.
Since you already own two of the larger Ti manufacturer's bikes, why not check with Kirk, Zancanato, Gaulzetti, Strong, et al., about a custom build?

[oldpotatoe]

I am thinking about getting another Ti frame..I own a Moots, and a Seven..but I really would like to get another. What is your opinion on who I should go to and what brand?

Moots RSL

[93legendti]

1. Serotta ti
2. Spectrum ti
3. Strong ti
I've had ti bikes by all 3 builders and they are all excellent.

[Dekonick]

Gotta love this forum. What other propriatery site would tolerate this?
I have a Moots, Peg, 3rensho and a Sachs (said in a revered tone) and my old Colorado steel Serotta, except for weight considerations, is a match in ride quality to any of them, imho.
Since you already own two of the larger Ti manufacturer's bikes, why not check with Kirk, Zancanato, Gaulzetti, Strong, et al., about a custom build?

Kirk and Zanc don't do Ti - at least I don't think they do...

Spectrum would be on my list too... all depends on if you want tapered tubes or if straight guage is fine with you. I personally don't mind straight guage tubes, so I would seriously look at a Bedford. If you want carbon stays with the ST pivot, look no further than the awesome Serotta Legend...

FWIW - I have owned 2 Legends. I sold one because it paid for another project. Kelly Bedford is installing S&S couplers in my other one (it is the DKS I love so much)

If I had to buy my short list would have 3 names: Bedford, Serotta, and Kellog (Spectrum)

I think it all depends on what you want and where you live. I am sure there are others out there but from researching this for myself this is my list.

[DonH]

I have had 3 different titanium road bikes and sold them for various reasons. My Legend is the one I should have kept! It had that certain quality which is hard to describe - it just seemed to glide down the road.

[maxdog]

Kirk and Zanc don't do Ti - at least I don't think they do...

Spectrum would be on my list too... all depends on if you want tapered tubes or if straight guage is fine with you. I personally don't mind straight guage tubes, so I would seriously look at a Bedford. If you want carbon stays with the ST pivot, look no further than the awesome Serotta Legend...

FWIW - I have owned 2 Legends. I sold one because it paid for another project. Kelly Bedford is installing S&S couplers in my other one (it is the DKS I love so much)

If I had to buy my short list would have 3 names: Bedford, Serotta, and Kellog (Spectrum)

I think it all depends on what you want and where you live. I am sure there are others out there but from researching this for myself this is my list.

Yeah, wasn't sure who would work with Ti, but your list is certainly excellent.

[BengeBoy]

I'm very happy with my Davidson. He has a lot of experience designing Ti bikes; the welder is (or at least was, when I got mine) the same guy who welds some of Hampsten's bikes.

www.davidsonbicycles.com.

[veloduffer]

I've owned a Legend, Seven Axiom, Merlin Road (Cambridge built), Litespeed Ultimate and now have a Kish. I really like the Kish and workmanship is top notch.

My other ti is a Concours cyclocross and Ottrott IT (ti rear and front, top & down tubes are carbon).

[spartacus]

A frame really ought to have tapered tubes.

[thendenjeck]

if yr near NYC, NYC Velo has a Ti IF or two in the shop. not for sale, but to look at.

[fourflys]

Well, you already own perfection in the Moots I'd say... but, I'd be real curious to see what Mike DeSalvo or Kish could do with Ti...

[yakstone]

Legend Ti - 'nuff said.

Well, you already own perfection in the Moots I'd say... but, I'd be real curious to see what Mike DeSalvo or Kish could do with Ti...

[tv_vt]

Yak's nailed it, I think.

Serotta Legend ti.

One of the benchmark titanium bikes out there. Probably one of the bikes that put Serotta on the map. Seems like anyone who's into ti has to try one of these sooner or later. But beware, it may spoil you.

[flydhest]

My Legend is an amazing bike. I have raced it and also ridden it on 100 to 120 mile rides and everything in between. I don't think you can make a better Ti bike. Different, yes, better, no.

Everyone I know who has a Spectrum from Tom has been ecstatic with it, as well.

Is there something you are trying to get out of a new Ti bike that you don't get from your current one? The material is not, in general, the defining characteristic of the bike.

[CyclingGuru]

I am the type of guy..who has nice things, but is never pleased with what he has..sadly it's something I struggle with. I would love to buy a Serotta but I live on the West Coast and I have no idea where the closest place is so I could get a custom made one.

[97CSI]

What is the difference between a Legend and Concours?

Had an '03 Dean El Diente. Nice bike, nice welds, not a Serotta. Rode from Kremmling to the Moots factory for a tour while riding the '04 BTC. Did about 75% of the day with a Moots factory employee, obviously was very pleased with his Moots. Think we could have swapped decals and no one would have been the wiser. Both were nice bikes.

[soulspinner]

Moots RSL

I talked to Kent Eriksen who said they got an RSL and the same size Eriksen is lighter. Not that that means anything but found it amusing. Saw an Eriksen and couldnt believe the welds. Never saw a Moots in person.

[Ken Robb]

What is the difference between a Legend and Concours?
Sorta like the difference between a CSi and an Atlanta. The L and CSi had a wider selection of tubing available and so could be tuned more precisely as customs. I also read that in bigger 58cm+ sizes the difference between Legend and Concors diminished because the "extra tubing selection" available for a Legend build was mostly lighter tubes to save weight in smaller frame sizes.

If you were to buy a used frame built for someone else you would be as likely to luck out with a Concors as a Legend in bigger sizes.

[csm]

legend...

[znfdl]

I have owned three Spectrum Ti and still have two of them. Tom does a really nice job designing the bike.

My coupled Spectrum has butted and straight gauge tubes.....

[jlwdm]

I don't think Gaulzetti does ti anymore either. Serotta made the few ti frames he sold.

Jeff

[jlwdm]

znfdl, my Spectrum ti from the raffle is built-up now in Seattle. Hopefully I will get to Seattle one of these days and see the bike and better yet ride it. I will post some photos after that.

Thanks again.

Jeff

[T.J.]

Little known local company called Roark. Raced one of their bikes for awhile. Only bike I have sold that I miss.

[happycampyer]

What is it that you are looking for? There are a lot of incredible ti builders out there (in addition the the Moots and Seven that you have): Serotta, IF, Spectrum, Eriksen, Strong, Potts, Bedford, Baum, Hamptsen, etc., as others have mentioned. Hard to go wrong with any of these.

In addition to the frame, part of what you are getting is the experience of getting the frame, working directly with the builder in many cases, etc. Personally, I have a bias towards Moots (with a Compact SL, a Vamoots SL, and recently added a Vamoots RSL), but have two Serottas (down from three), two IFs, among others.

If you are looking for something with more snap, then I agree with oldpotatoe, the RSL would be one of my top choices. The RSL has the same drivetrain stiffness as my 595, but still soaks up bumps in classic ti bike style. But if you want something different, I would think that the new IF Ti Factory Lightweight, a Spectrum would have a similar, racy feel. And if you want paint, Spectum and IF are hard to beat, although for pure sexyness the Baums have been off the charts lately (too bad the AUD has also been off the charts lately...).

If you want classic buttery smooth ti, the field is wide open, but you already have buttery smooth, so the bigger thrill imo would be in the process of working with the builder, customizing the geo (although the Seven should have done that), etc. In this category, I wouldn't rule out the Ottrott, which I personally prefer over the Legend. I recently sold an Ottrott (http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=75682) that wasn't the best fit (it was a dealer demo that I couldn't resist), and it had the smoothest ride of any bike I have owned.

[Wilkinson4]

Adding Blacksheep. It really depends on what you want. It is Ti so it will cost some $$$. Where are you located?

mIKE

[CyclingGuru]

Westcoast! Washington state.

[Wilkinson4]

Well, howabout Davidson or Ti Cycles? Or just drive to Montana and get dialed in by Carl Strong? Or, instead of Ti how about some wood? Check out Renovo, then we can get a ride report on the natural carbon fiber:)

mIKE

[fourflys]

Westcoast! Washington state.

Mike DeSalvo (http://www.desalvocycles.com/?p=ti_road) ... he's good enough to weld on Speedvagens... just down the road in Oregon...

[BengeBoy]

Westcoast! Washington state.

2 builders in Seattle:

- Davidson
- Hampsten

Ti Cycles is now in Portland. There are some other folks in Oregon doing Ti, look at the website of the Oregon Bicycle Constructors' Association (I think that's the framebuilder's group).

Or you can go to Cascade Bicycle Studio in Fremont (Seattle) to get fitted for a (Ti) Seven or to Sammamish Valley Cycle in Redmond to get fitted for a Serrotta.

Or go to Classic Cycle on Bainbridge Island or Counterbalance in Seattle to get fitted for a Ti Independent Fabrication.

....not hard to find a good ti bike w/local support in Seattle....

[fourflys]

2 builders in Seattle:

- Davidson
- Hampsten

Ti Cycles is now in Portland. There are some other folks in Oregon doing Ti, look at the website of the Oregon Bicycle Constructors' Association (I think that's the framebuilder's group).

Or you can go to Cascade Bicycle Studio in Fremont (Seattle) to get fitted for a (Ti) Seven or to Sammamish Valley Cycle in Redmond to get fitted for a Serrotta.

Or go to Classic Cycle on Bainbridge Island or Counterbalance in Seattle to get fitted for a Ti Independent Fabrication.

....not hard to find a good ti bike w/local support in Seattle....

just to be fair, Hampsten is not a builder in Ti are they? I believe they use Erickson... now, if you want Steve's fit, then that's a another thing and a great alternative...

[cadence90]

Westcoast! Washington state.
I love my Kishes, but Bill Davidson and Steve Hampsten are both in Seattle and have sterling reputations as well.

[cadence90]

just to be fair, Hampsten is not a builder in Ti are they? I believe they use Erickson... now, if you want Steve's fit, then that's a another thing and a great alternative...
According to the site, the GP ti is welded in-house and the SB ti by Kent Eriksen, but I read on VSalon that Steve is moving towards doing all welding in-house.

[Ahneida Ride]

I didn't know he did Ti? Got a link to any?

Kelly is doing and has done several Ti bikes.
He just ain't advertising it on his web site.
But he is a doing Ti. :D from 29er Mtn bikes to full on Touring with couplers.

[fourflys]

According to the site, the GP ti is welded in-house and the SB ti by Kent Eriksen, but I read on VSalon that Steve is moving towards doing all welding in-house.

fair enough, thanks! (I can't read over there anymore...)

[572cv]

the Serotta Fierte? I love the ride of mine. FWIW, I sold a nice older carbon bike after riding this one. Well worth consideration if you come across one in your size.

[54ny77]

:banana: :D

Ottrott[/color] (http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=75682) that wasn't the best fit (it was a dealer demo that I couldn't resist), and it had the smoothest ride of any bike I have owned.

[Wilkinson4]

Just looking at Davidson's gallery and I forgot what great machines he makes and now I want one;) Let us know who you pick!

mIKE

[happycampyer]

According to the site, the GP ti is welded in-house and the SB ti by Kent Eriksen, but I read on VSalon that Steve is moving towards doing all welding in-house.Yeah, if I'm not mistaken, the ti is welded in-house by Max Kullaway (333fab (http://www.333fab.com/), another one to add to the list if you don't go through Steve), who was a welder for many years at Seven. Steve mentioned on his blog (http://hampsten.blogspot.com/2010/11/some-updates.html) that he will still use Kent on request for the loyalists (and although he has retired Moots and IF as builders, when I spoke to Steve not long ago, he had no problem using Moots to build a Strada Bianca ti for me).

[CyclingGuru]

:) thanks for all the resources..I have over a page of notes hahaha. I am a strone throw away from Portland, and not too far from Seattle. I guess I will be doing some road tripping this winter! :banana:

[97CSI]

Post a 'want to buy' in the classifieds here. Ti doesn't really wear out.

[Wilkinson4]

Post a 'want to buy' in the classifieds here. Ti doesn't really wear out.

+1... I just bought a used Litespeed Appalachian for 1/4 of the price new and I will be soliciting ideas for a build up soon.

mIKE

[jlwdm]

just to be fair, Hampsten is not a builder in Ti are they? I believe they use Erickson... now, if you want Steve's fit, then that's a another thing and a great alternative...

Hampsten builds ti in house. If you want Ericksen it can still be done, but all but three Hampstens of any material have been built by others so far this year.

Jeff

[RFC]

+1... I just bought a used Litespeed Appalachian for 1/4 of the price new and I will be soliciting ideas for a build up soon.

mIKE

I have had two Appalachians and now have one, along with a couple of other "vintage" Litespeeds. If you really want to do something different, I'd go for an Appalachian or Ultimate from the Lynskey era (I have both). Great bikes with real history.

[flickwet]

No question that a legend Ti is my ultimate dream bike. Its not just cuz of the forum and all the good folks here either, It's the swaged and butted tubes the custom paint and geo, the History, I mean all the others are great but when it comes to ULTIMATE Ti frames there is no doubt that all aspects considered, its a Serotta Legend, me want mine. white gold and sapphire 1/2 thankyou

[John M]

Whoever you go with, I would have them do it with S&S couplers. I have two Ti bikes now (a Merlin and a Moots-built Hampsten), and really would like to have a travel bike. Ti seems perfect for that purpose with the reduced worry about denting and scratching that might be more likely to occur with a steel travel bike.

[tribuddha]

I am the type of guy..who has nice things, but is never pleased with what he has..sadly it's something I struggle with. I would love to buy a Serotta but I live on the West Coast and I have no idea where the closest place is so I could get a custom made one.

Santa Rosa..go to Rand Libberton at Aria Velo .. he is a great fitter and sells Serotta among others.. all custom..he did my fit and I love the bike.. Ti Classique..

[salem]

I haven't ridden a lot of the ti frames mentioned, so I can't do a direct comparison, but I rode a number of mid 90's Merlin, Sadvick and TiSports mountain frames as well a Seven road frame here and there. Last summer, I took advantage of a deal Performance had on house branded ti frames built by Lynskey.

This frame is roughly equivalent to Lynskey's Cooper with slightly different geometry (Performance had longer TT for a give HT, which works better for me), and the first thing I noticed on the Lyskey build vs other ti frames I've seen are the massive diameter tubes and heavy ovalizing.

When I mentioned to a friend I had ordered the frame, his first question was, "Are you worried about Ti being flexy?". I had looked at those tubes, and had no concerns about it. Riding it confirmed this; it is one of the stiffest pedalling road frames I've ever sampled, and I don't just mean Ti. With a 44mm rake AlphaQ cs-10 fork, this bike has been a rock steady, stable dream, despite having around 1cm less wheelbase that the not-flexy Felt aluminum frame it replaced.

Lynskey also does custom builds, but if you look around, they produce frames for a lot of different brands, so, like me, you can probably find some place that specs the geometry that works for you without the custom upcharge.

[slowandsteady]

Anyone consider DEAN? Supposed to make a nice bike and if I am not mistaken ONLY works in Ti...

[BCS]

Check across the hall regarding Dean--the description of the customer service would keep me away from them with so many other excellent choices available.

[fourflys]

I haven't ridden a lot of the ti frames mentioned, so I can't do a direct comparison, but I rode a number of mid 90's Merlin, Sadvick and TiSports mountain frames as well a Seven road frame here and there. Last summer, I took advantage of a deal Performance had on house branded ti frames built by Lynskey.

This frame is roughly equivalent to Lynskey's Cooper with slightly different geometry (Performance had longer TT for a give HT, which works better for me), and the first thing I noticed on the Lyskey build vs other ti frames I've seen are the massive diameter tubes and heavy ovalizing.

When I mentioned to a friend I had ordered the frame, his first question was, "Are you worried about Ti being flexy?". I had looked at those tubes, and had no concerns about it. Riding it confirmed this; it is one of the stiffest pedalling road frames I've ever sampled, and I don't just mean Ti. With a 44mm rake AlphaQ cs-10 fork, this bike has been a rock steady, stable dream, despite having around 1cm less wheelbase that the not-flexy Felt aluminum frame it replaced.

Lynskey also does custom builds, but if you look around, they produce frames for a lot of different brands, so, like me, you can probably find some place that specs the geometry that works for you without the custom upcharge.


The Lynskey Cooper is pretty much a copy of my Litespeed Xicon (or vice versa)... these are basically entry level Ti bikes built here in the US with tubes sourced overseas and sell for about $1500 for F/F/HS... These are great frames and, as you said, HUGE tubes... I have a feeling the OP isn't looking for a budget frame though... I used to have a Serotta Concours Ti and I gotta say I can't tell a difference between the Concours and my Xicon...(both great)

Chris

[97CSI]

Check across the hall regarding Dean--the description of the customer service would keep me away from them with so many other excellent choices available.That was also my experience with Dean. Nice product, but poor communication/delivery functions. The fact that a 'friend-of-a-friend' worked there at the time was the only reason I did not cancel my order.

[BCS]

Not sure if it has been mentioned yet but the Ti factory lightweight from IF looks very ineresting.

http://ifbikesblog.blogspot.com/2010/10/tiflw-v2-wicked.html

[phcollard]

I had a Lynskey R330. Great bike. Impeccable craftsmanship, very comfy, very stiff as far as I could tell. But for me the oversize tubes and the TT slope were too much... I am very partial to classic bikes with horizontal TT and I don't think my cycling - ie non-racing - needs those modern appointments.

Anyways I was lucky enough to find a used Colorado Ti at a good price. It's I believe 10+ years older than the Lynskey I had but the ride is just as good. This thing just glides over the road and it's VERY stable. I have zero regrets about this purchase. Serotta rocks.

[19wisconsin64]

Planet X with an Easton SLX ITT fork. Basically these are Lynskey made in USA frames. I got one for under $1,000 on sale, brand new, from the Planet X USA website and built it up last year as my road "geared" bike.

Always wanted a Ti frame, and can say the ride is very smooth. The reviews I found online were very positive on this frame, so if a lower price is your target this may work.

Otherwise, there are now several chinese manufacturing companies that will sell you a frame for much less. things have changed, and these will of course become more commonplace in the near future, but for the extra money i went with the Planet X.

Of course, if the funds are there, Serotta , Seven, ......