Sram on Campy

[norcalbiker]

One of my bike have a full Campy Record 10. Can I mix this system with a Sram XX rear der. and a Sram XX 32 Cassette? Of I need to change hub on my rear wheel. Is this possible? Anyone here done this?

I am planning doing some century rides with a lot climbing this coming year. Death Ride and Moab just to name a few.

[TMB]

I can't comment on all of it, but I will say this:

- I have a bike that is all campy except for the hub and cassette. Shimano hub and SRAM cassette. I use a jTek and it works fine. I don not know if that model of jTek is made any longer ( #5 ??), so may have to search for it.

- The Record RD will not work witha 32 tooth cassette, you will have to use a long cage RD - pick up a cheapish Centaur off ebay - I recently bought a long cage Centaur Century grey for $35.

If you use a Shimano cassette with otherwise all campy components I know that the jTek is available for that combo. I use one, and it works flawlessly.

[norcalbiker]

Sorry, but what is jTek?

[TMB]

http://www.jtekengineering.com/shiftmate.htm

[Andreas]

cable pull is different from campy to shimano to sram

jtek gizmo modifies cable pull so can mix and match (almost as good, but not quite)

cable pull for xx and apex/rival/force/red is identical
so can use rival or apex shifters with an xx derailleur or xx shifters with apex
apex has a 32 cassette


But why don't you just use a campy 29 cassette? Or some smaller rings up front? May be easier than spending time and money on mixing and matching?
Or use a 110/74 crank for the ride?

[FGC]

You could swap out the rear derailleur, which I'm assuming is short cage, for a Campy long cage derailleur. Thirty two teeth might be a stretch but I bet you could get it to work.

And 10 speed Campy shifting on a SRAM cassette also shouldn't be a problem.

[mcallen]

I tried to mix Campy Record shifters ten with Sram Rival RD via a JTEK shiftmate with less than stellar results. I emailed Ryan at JTEK and this is part of the response I got:

"We stopped supporting Sram due to some issues that we were having with the components shifting properly. Sram can work with a shiftmate but some people were having issues and it was our decision to stop supporting Sram rather then trying to trouble shoot problems that people were having."

I put on a Dura Ace RD and it works great with the JTEK.

[Dave]

The reason that SRAM RDs don't work with Shimano or Campy shifters, even with a shiftmate, is easily explained.

SRAM RDs require a uniform cable pull of 3mm per shift, while both Campy and Shimano shifters have nonuniform cable pulls. A Campy 10 shifter pulls 2.5mm five times, 3mm twice and 3.5mm twice. The average is less than SRAM, but if it's increased with a shiftmate the last four pulls get worse and the first five get better.

[Richard]

Dave, aren't sram and shimano casettes interchangeable, though?

[Ralph]

I think what some of you are calling long cage Campy RD is really a mid cage....even though on E Bay they are always described as long cage. The Comp series does have a long cage RD for triple use. It's true most of these double combo's will work fine with a mid cage. But be aware....there is a longer cage Campy RD out there that indexes with 10 speed.

[sjbraun]

I'm very happy riding the Moab Century Tour with a Campy 10 drive train.
I run a 34x50 up front and a 13-29 Veloce cassette in the rear. I use a short cage Chorus rear derailleur and avoid the 50x29 combination. I have a friend who runs the same drive train. He claims to shift into the 50x29 combo all the time and reports no problems.

Sure, I spin out using the 50x13, (above 38mph,) but its worth it to have access to the 29 tooth cog.

Centaur long cage RDs can be found on eBay. Recently, I bought a Chorus medium cage from eBay as well. You have plenty of options available without resorting to a Campy/Shimano/SRAM mongrelosity.

Steve-riding in Austin this week and glad to have the 29 tooth cog.

This mornings ramble through Austin

http://ridewithgps.com/photos/snapshots/route-histogram-230999.jpg

[oldpotatoe]

One of my bike have a full Campy Record 10. Can I mix this system with a Sram XX rear der. and a Sram XX 32 Cassette? Of I need to change hub on my rear wheel. Is this possible? Anyone here done this?

I am planning doing some century rides with a lot climbing this coming year. Death Ride and Moab just to name a few.

Lennard Zinn brought a bike in with Campagnolo ERGO and a sram road RD and it shifted sram/shimano 10s spacing really well. Sram XX is the same geometry as road sram so......

[oldpotatoe]

You could swap out the rear derailleur, which I'm assuming is short cage, for a Campy long cage derailleur. Thirty two teeth might be a stretch but I bet you could get it to work.

And 10 speed Campy shifting on a SRAM cassette also shouldn't be a problem.

For info, a true 'long' cage Campagnolo RD(like a 'Comp') is 95mm bolt to bolt, the same as shimano MTB rear ders so a 32 or 34t is no sweat.

[bobswire]

Lennard Zinn brought a bike in with Campagnolo ERGO and a sram road RD and it shifted sram/shimano 10s spacing really well. Sram XX is the same geometry as road sram so......


I read an article from Zinn about it so I tried it myself a couple of years ago with Centaur 10 shifters and sram r.derailleur and cassette. It ran fine.

Right now I'm running Centaur ergo on a CDA and Centaur powershift on my Seven using Centaur (mid) derailleurs and Shimano wheels.
I like using the Shimano wheels in case I want to run 30 or 32 tooth cassette which shift fine with mid cage derailleur.

[Dave Wages]

Lennard Zinn brought a bike in with Campagnolo ERGO and a sram road RD and it shifted sram/shimano 10s spacing really well. Sram XX is the same geometry as road sram so......

I've been running a SRAM Apex rear derailleur, Shimano cassette, and Campy Chorus 10 speed shifters on my new dirt road bike for a few weeks. I must say, I remembered reading something about Lennard Zinn doing this, which is why I tried it in the first place.

My experience has been that it works... almost. When I read what Dave wrote, it seems like that might be right. As it is, it works about 95%, but it's not totally seamless. If I get it working pretty good for the larger cogs, then the shifting on the smaller ones suffers, and vise-versa. I've got it adjusted so that I just need to nudge the shifter a little bit extra to get the big cogs, and then it works ok, but not what I would call perfect.

[norcalbiker]

Or use a 110/74 crank for the ride?

What is 110/74 crank?

[norcalbiker]

You could swap out the rear derailleur, which I'm assuming is short cage, for a Campy long cage derailleur. Thirty two teeth might be a stretch but I bet you could get it to work.

And 10 speed Campy shifting on a SRAM cassette also shouldn't be a problem.

Have you done this?

[norcalbiker]

Dave, aren't sram and shimano casettes interchangeable, though?

Thats what I thought.

[norcalbiker]

Lennard Zinn brought a bike in with Campagnolo ERGO and a sram road RD and it shifted sram/shimano 10s spacing really well. Sram XX is the same geometry as road sram so......

If these are true, then I shouldn't have any problem. Cool!

[norcalbiker]

I've been running a SRAM Apex rear derailleur, Shimano cassette, and Campy Chorus 10 speed shifters on my new dirt road bike for a few weeks. I must say, I remembered reading something about Lennard Zinn doing this, which is why I tried it in the first place.

My experience has been that it works... almost. When I read what Dave wrote, it seems like that might be right. As it is, it works about 95%, but it's not totally seamless. If I get it working pretty good for the larger cogs, then the shifting on the smaller ones suffers, and vise-versa. I've got it adjusted so that I just need to nudge the shifter a little bit extra to get the big cogs, and then it works ok, but not what I would call perfect.

So it sounds like it's just a matter of finding a good bike mechanic to tune it right.

[Dave]

Here's what should happen when Campy shifters are hooked to a SRAM RD and cassette. The shifter will only pull 2.5mm of cable for the first five shifts. That total is 12.5mm. The SRAM RD needs 15mm of cable pull for five shifts, which makes the RD lag by almost a full cog at that point (83% off to be precise). The next two pulls are the correct 3mm, but the RD will still continue to lag. The last two shift pull 3.5mm, so the RD will catch up a little, but should remain lagging.

The shiftmate is probably designed to increase the 2.8mm average cable pull of the Campy shifter up to 3mm, in order to reduce some of the initial lag, but it's a tradeoff for increased overtravel on the last 4 shifts that already pull enough cable or too much.

For those who read Zinn's article, he mismeasured both the SRAM and Campy cables pulls and didn't bother to measure the individual pulls, just the total. It's the individual pulls that tell the story.

[Dave Wages]

So it sounds like it's just a matter of finding a good bike mechanic to tune it right.

Ummm... I've spent quite a few years of my life as a bike mechanic, before and during my time as a framebuilder. I think if it were a matter of adjustment, I'd have gotten it dialed in by now. This doesn't mean I doubt Lennard Zinn's experience, I'm just relating my personal experience.

FWIW, I've used the Campy shifters with Shimano derailleurs, cassette and a JTEK shiftmate, and that does work pretty much flawlessly. If you didn't look at the bike, you'd have a hard time knowing it's not a complete matched grouppo.

From what I can observe of the SRAM and Campy setup, the uneven cable pull that Dave describes sounds like the problem. The system can be optimized for a "section" of the cassette, but it never shifts perfectly over the whole range.

Hope this is helpful.
Dave

[oldpotatoe]

I've been running a SRAM Apex rear derailleur, Shimano cassette, and Campy Chorus 10 speed shifters on my new dirt road bike for a few weeks. I must say, I remembered reading something about Lennard Zinn doing this, which is why I tried it in the first place.

My experience has been that it works... almost. When I read what Dave wrote, it seems like that might be right. As it is, it works about 95%, but it's not totally seamless. If I get it working pretty good for the larger cogs, then the shifting on the smaller ones suffers, and vise-versa. I've got it adjusted so that I just need to nudge the shifter a little bit extra to get the big cogs, and then it works ok, but not what I would call perfect.

shimano 9s cogset or 10s cogset? With a long cage Apex RD, a shimano MTB cogset, 9s?

I have seen it once and rode it and it worked surprisingly well.

[norcalbiker]

I think I am just going to pull the Campy out and sell it to buy a whole Sram group. Anyone interested on a full Campy Record 10? :)

Thanks for all the reply

[Dave Wages]

shimano 9s cogset or 10s cogset? With a long cage Apex RD, a shimano MTB cogset, 9s?

I have seen it once and rode it and it worked surprisingly well.

It's a 12 x 25 Shimano cassette, Apex rear derailleur, and Campy Chorus shifters. I've also used a wide range, 11 x 32 SRAM cassette and I've had the same experience. Not bad shifting, but not perfect either.