Are bikes likely to get banned from flying?

[RPS]

It seems we protest everything after the fact when it’s harder to reverse decisions – so I was thinking of being a little preemptive for a change. Watching the news last night and seeing that the TSA is more serious than ever about protecting us (they are taking a hard line with even the clueless passengers who show up at airports not knowing what awaits them) made me start wondering how long it will be before bikes are banned from passenger planes.

Everything they do is predictably reactionary, so all it will take is one bike-hating nut job putting a pseudo-bomb inside a bike frame to end the practice. It wouldn’t even have to be a workable bomb or anything sophisticated, just the mere signal that somebody is thinking in those terms and we’ll have to start renting at our destination. It’s not like anyone really “needs” a bike, and besides so very few passengers do it anyway.

Any thoughts on starting a petition in advance to prevent bikes from being banned? Any chance of a petition working? And while we are at it, does a steel frame obscure internal details better than carbon when it goes through an X-ray machine? I like to plan ahead and would take that into consideration on my next purchase if there is a chance they may ban steel and not carbon.

[oldpotatoe]

It seems we protest everything after the fact when it’s harder to reverse decisions – so I was thinking of being a little preemptive for a change. Watching the news last night and seeing that the TSA is more serious than ever about protecting us (they are taking a hard line with even the clueless passengers who show up at airports not knowing what awaits them) made me start wondering how long it will be before bikes are banned from passenger planes.

Everything they do is predictably reactionary, so all it will take is one bike-hating nut job putting a pseudo-bomb inside a bike frame to end the practice. It wouldn’t even have to be a workable bomb or anything sophisticated, just the mere signal that somebody is thinking in those terms and we’ll have to start renting at our destination. It’s not like anyone really “needs” a bike, and besides so very few passengers do it anyway.

Any thoughts on starting a petition in advance to prevent bikes from being banned? Any chance of a petition working? And while we are at it, does a steel frame obscure internal details better than carbon when it goes through an X-ray machine? I like to plan ahead and would take that into consideration on my next purchase if there is a chance they may ban steel and not carbon.

TSA will ban carbon bikes and not steel...bicycles? ya think? I think you overestimate the number of people flying with a bicycle. And the sophistication of TSA. They haven't banned printer cartiridges from cargo...

And a petition from all those concerned cyclists? I doubt they would even open that mail.

[RPS]

I don’t know where the futility of today’s life will end but hopefully a 40 mile ride this morning will help reduce frustration.

Maybe a light bulb moment will show me the wisdom of our own government threatening innocent Americans with $11,000 fines and/or arrest for simply saying “no thanks” and opting to walk out of the airport.

Seems inconceivable how far 81 percent have slid down the slope.


I need a ride :(

[eddief]

brings all sorts of stuff to my mind. Thanks to Serotta for the forum. I am educable.

[TMB]

It seems we protest everything after the fact when it’s harder to reverse decisions – so I was thinking of being a little preemptive for a change. Watching the news last night and seeing that the TSA is more serious than ever about protecting us (they are taking a hard line with even the clueless passengers who show up at airports not knowing what awaits them) made me start wondering how long it will be before bikes are banned from passenger planes.

Everything they do is predictably reactionary, so all it will take is one bike-hating nut job putting a pseudo-bomb inside a bike frame to end the practice. It wouldn’t even have to be a workable bomb or anything sophisticated, just the mere signal that somebody is thinking in those terms and we’ll have to start renting at our destination. It’s not like anyone really “needs” a bike, and besides so very few passengers do it anyway.

Any thoughts on starting a petition in advance to prevent bikes from being banned? Any chance of a petition working? And while we are at it, does a steel frame obscure internal details better than carbon when it goes through an X-ray machine? I like to plan ahead and would take that into consideration on my next purchase if there is a chance they may ban steel and not carbon.


You're kidding right???

[TMB]

I don’t know where the futility of today’s life will end but hopefully a 40 mile ride this morning will help reduce frustration.

Maybe a light bulb moment will show me the wisdom of our own government threatening innocent Americans with $11,000 fines and/or arrest for simply saying “no thanks” and opting to walk out of the airport.

Seems inconceivable how far 81 percent have slid down the slope.


I need a ride :(


How many of those 81 percent do you think actually ever fly anywhere?

It's easy to consign your neighbours to purgatory if it doesn't affect you.

[auto_rock]

I am just about ready to resign myself to ground travel entirely. As soon as backscatter and "enhanced" patdown fondling show up here in the Great White North...

[TMB]

I am just about ready to resign myself to ground travel entirely. As soon as backscatter and "enhanced" patdown fondling show up here in the Great White North...

Fortunately, at this point, the only time we have to deal with that nonsense when getting on a plane that flys into the US.

Internally we don't.

It is so bad now that when I go to my local airport and get on a plane for the US, there is a separate security line. With Scanner. After going through security, you get fed into a separate holding area, with a RCMP guard at the door, and no windows so you can't see out to the other boarding gates. When they load the plane, they put up a barrier that we get herded down to the tunnel and the RCMp are at the barrier to make sure that none of us look sideways.

It really has taken on the feel of a prison camp. For this we pay money??

I am now at the point that I will fly internally, and unless there is something very extraordinary causinhg me to fly into the states - I won't. I drive.

The border crossing is no treat there either, but it is less de-humanizing than the airport.

The advantage of driving is that it is easier to bring a bike.

Takes me 2 days to get to Arizona though.

[nahtnoj]

I was watching a comedy program last week with my fiancee - they were doing a TSA routine - something about the TSA not being happy until every passenger was flying naked and unconscious.

It sounded fantastic to me. I'm 6'2" and flying for more than 2 hours is torture. And any distance shorter than that and I'll gladly drive or take the train. 6-8 hours on the train is a pleasure. Take it up and down the Northeast Corridor all the time.

My ideal airport experience is this:

1. Arrive.
2. Get on the conveyor belt, which contains multiple coffin-like boxes for me and my baggage. Get in the coffin-like box.
3. A TSA worker scans my boarding pass and closes the box.
4. A machine injects the proper amount of knock-out gas into my box based on my weight and final destination.

Then, each pod could be loaded into a container based on final destination of each group of people on the plane. Planes would be reconfigured to hold 4-5 cargo cases like those PODS (portable storage boxes).

I'm totally serious. This is 100% preferable to me to the current arrangement. In fact, I'd pay more for this service, especially on long-haul flights.

[93legendti]

Israel has offered help to TSA/USA and it has been rejected.

We keep looking for items/weapons based upon what was used in the past.

Israel looks for people looking to commit a terror act-no shoes off, no 3 in 1 plastic bag/liquids, no random enhanced pat downs.

I guess if you start with the notion that we aren't in a war and terrorism is a man made disaster that can be dealt with by policing, you get to where we are on 11/22/2010.

[JMerring]

My ideal airport experience is this:

1. Arrive.
2. Get on the conveyor belt, which contains multiple coffin-like boxes for me and my baggage. Get in the coffin-like box.
3. A TSA worker scans my boarding pass and closes the box.
4. A machine injects the proper amount of knock-out gas into my box based on my weight and final destination.

Then, each pod could be loaded into a container based on final destination of each group of people on the plane. Planes would be reconfigured to hold 4-5 cargo cases like those PODS (portable storage boxes).

I'm totally serious. This is 100% preferable to me to the current arrangement. In fact, I'd pay more for this service, especially on long-haul flights.

they sorta covered that in the fifth element. fhloston paradise, here we come?

on the plus side, if bikes are banned, it could be a boon to the bike rental biz.

[sg8357]

innocent Americans with $11,000 fines and/or arrest for simply saying “no thanks” and opting to walk out of the airport.

I just checked with Justice Scalia, flying is not covered by the US Constitution,
under originalist interpretation. Participating in this thread will get you on the
TSA list for "extra special screening", so you don't have to worry about the
microwave scanner. :)

Passengers going thru the scanner can carry a bag of microwave popcorn,
so you can have fresh treat on boarding the aircraft.

[false_Aest]

Ya'll thinking about this the wrong way.

Start writing letters thanking them for their help and protection. Start suggesting things that should be banned and give good reasons why. Start with forwarding them a mp3 from the band This Bike is a Pipe Bomb. Explain how non-dairy creamer is extremely flammable. Show them how a printer cartridge when combined with the CO2 cartridge in the life vest and a Bic pen can surely poke someone's eye out.

Make it worse and therefore safer. MUCH MUCH MUCH MORE SAFER!!!

So safe that it become an inconvienience for everyone.

I want a body scan that takes 2 hours to do and requires the dude performing it to consult Agents Mulder and Scully. I want a body scan that takes my ovaries and converts them to an in-flight fruit snack.

The worse it gets the less people fly. The less people fly the better for the environment. The less people fly the less chance of innocent people dying. The less people fly the less people complain about searches. The less people fly the less you have to think about when watching the evening news.

Atlas is dead. It's time for the rest of us to start shrugging.

FWIW, perhaps the best bomb would be one placed inside of a cadaver's head. "Sir, we have an unidentified substance in this corpse." "No, that's just embalming fluid." *kabloooooooooey*

I want security to ask why I have a a TicTac clenched in my butt. I want to be able to say, "To make it fresher for you."

[SamIAm]

Everything they do is predictably reactionary, so all it will take is one bike-hating nut job putting a pseudo-bomb inside a bike frame to end the practice. It wouldn’t even have to be a workable bomb or anything sophisticated, just the mere signal that somebody is thinking in those terms and we’ll have to start renting at our destination.


This is an excellent point. I mean if I ran a terrorist organization I would just fill some "volunteer's" intestine full of plastic explosives and allow the plot to be "uncovered". What would TSA do with this?

At this point the terrorist can actually do more harm by allowing their plots to be uncovered than to actually succeed.

[SamIAm]

Maybe a light bulb moment will show me the wisdom of our own government threatening innocent Americans with $11,000 fines and/or arrest for simply saying “no thanks” and opting to walk out of the airport.



I too was wondering about this, but then I thought of a terrorist filling their underware with plastic explosives and trying to get through security. Their plan could be to try to clear the metal detector, but just walk out if chosen for the scan and/or pat down. That might be problematic.

[sg8357]

At this point the terrorist can actually do more harm by allowing their plots to be uncovered than to actually succeed.

A very good point, just think of what the most common items carried on
airplanes are, put out some youtube video and let the media panic everyone.

cellphones, laptops, luggage, magicshine lights........

[MadRocketSci]

The TSA has those wipes that they just swipe over a couple of surfaces and stick in a machine to detect bomb residues. I think it would be pretty easy to catch any explosive inside a bike tube.

[Idris Icabod]

The TSA has those wipes that they just swipe over a couple of surfaces and stick in a machine to detect bomb residues. I think it would be pretty easy to catch any explosive inside a bike tube.

Do those machines actually work? We have had one at our company for 3 years now (large pharmaceutical), it is the pet project of a Ph.D. scientist with about 20 years of experience and as far as I know hasn't run a single sample because they can't get the thing to work properly. Perhaps we should can our guy and get one of the TSA fellows in!

[spartacus]

Flying bicycles?

[MadRocketSci]

Do those machines actually work? We have had one at our company for 3 years now (large pharmaceutical), it is the pet project of a Ph.D. scientist with about 20 years of experience and as far as I know hasn't run a single sample because they can't get the thing to work properly. Perhaps we should can our guy and get one of the TSA fellows in!

I don't know for sure, but i would hope they work, since they probably cost a bunch of $$. They're used at the San Jose airport (SJC) for screening carry-on stuff, and I assume for other random checked luggage.

[RPS]

You're kidding right???
Of course about a petition or steel versus carbon. However, I was serious about being frustrated – but feel better now after riding.

I’m still puzzled why all of a sudden this security “upgrade” is a problem when we’ve been told about it for years. Most flyers knew about the machines or invasive pat downs and did little complaining about them until now when it’s a reality. Does our society lack such foresight that we can’t imagine what something like this is going to be like until it happens?

Beyond that, does anyone ever care about trends? What’s next based on the progression we’ve already experienced? I’d guess cavity searches can’t be too far off.

[RPS]

This is an excellent point. I mean if I ran a terrorist organization I would just fill some "volunteer's" intestine full of plastic explosives and allow the plot to be "uncovered". What would TSA do with this?

At this point the terrorist can actually do more harm by allowing their plots to be uncovered than to actually succeed.
The economic hemorrhaging (as they called it) was covered briefly by Good Morning America this AM. Primarily based on fear terrorist spend $40 on a useless threat and we react by spending billions to counter. Who’s winning the dollar war?

Likewise, for $100 and a rusty Huffy any idiot in Africa can essentially put companies that manufacture travel cases and travel bikes out of business, not to mention a damper on cycling vacations. It’s not that far-fetched.

[RPS]

I too was wondering about this, but then I thought of a terrorist filling their underware with plastic explosives and trying to get through security. Their plan could be to try to clear the metal detector, but just walk out if chosen for the scan and/or pat down. That might be problematic.
In time everyone will get searched, so why would a terrorist whose intent is to penetrate security turn back? It’s not random so they should be expecting it. On the other hand if an old and clueless infrequent flyer goes to the airport and unexpectedly realizes they don’t want security to know they are wearing pampers :rolleyes: (or are just modest), they can’t back out of the line with any remaining dignity. According to the news they will be prevented from flying (understandable), kept from leaving and interrogated (not so understandable if they look like Aunt Bee), and face up to $11,000 fine and arrest (for what crime?).

To me it seems TSA is flexing their muscles to intimidate Americans into submission so they don’t peacefully demonstrate on Wednesday or to squash a revolt before it gains momentum.

[Elefantino]

Maybe it's just me, but I don't really care or, I guess, mind. OK, so someone pats you down. To me that's not a big deal. What, are they suddenly going show up at your social functions telling everyone how you have soft nethers?

Yes, blah blah, I get all the arguments. And I don't discount or poo-pooh any of them. (Except, maybe, the El Al argument. You have to arrive at the airport much earlier for those flights because of their long — but completely successful — screening process. People would howl louder, I think, at being third-degreed on a flight to Rochester.)

But I'm going to keep flying, although not this holiday season. Probably not until the BCS championship. (Go Ducks! :hello: ) To me, this TSA stuff is just part of the deal, and I'm not going to get in a blood-pressure-hiking snit because of it.

[JMerring]

Who’s winning the dollar war?


they're not just winning the dollar war, they're winning the whole shebang, too. after all, the very nature of terrorism isn't to kill the maximum amount of people, but to scare them. methinks that oz bin laden couldn't have scripted our response and the past 10 years any better. he's probably kickin' it in a cave somewhere in the caribbean, rolling himself a big opium-laced phatty, laughing himself silly while we implode all over ourselves.

i'm with elefantino - much ado about nothing but the lamestream meee-deee-uhhh* is having a field day.


* thanks to matt labash for that derivative expression.

[Ahneida Ride]

This is an excellent point. I mean if I ran a terrorist organization I would just fill some "volunteer's" intestine full of plastic explosives and allow the plot to be "uncovered". What would TSA do with this?


Ya know, I had the identical thought.

Big Brother always know best. Cause they are there for you protection. :eek:

-------------------

Let's fly naked and hire Urologists and Proctologists as T&A personnel.

[Ahneida Ride]

Who’s winning the dollar war?


I sure ain't. O'Sama Baby has got to be laughing his a## off. He won.


and the defeat started in 1913, Dec 23, when most of Congress was outa town.

[Ralph]

Maybe it's just me, but I don't really care or, I guess, mind. OK, so someone pats you down. To me that's not a big deal. What, are they suddenly going show up at your social functions telling everyone how you have soft nethers?

Yes, blah blah, I get all the arguments. And I don't discount or poo-pooh any of them. (Except, maybe, the El Al argument. You have to arrive at the airport much earlier for those flights because of their long — but completely successful — screening process. People would howl louder, I think, at being third-degreed on a flight to Rochester.)

But I'm going to keep flying, although not this holiday season. Probably not until the BCS championship. (Go Ducks! :hello: ) To me, this TSA stuff is just part of the deal, and I'm not going to get in a blood-pressure-hiking snit because of it.


That's kinda how I feel about it. No big deal. I'll just take the hassle factor into consideration when I make my next flying decision. I've been thru most of this stuff before anyway.

[93legendti]

...Yes, blah blah, I get all the arguments. And I don't discount or poo-pooh any of them. (Except, maybe, the El Al argument. You have to arrive at the airport much earlier for those flights because of their long — but completely successful — screening process. People would howl louder, I think, at being third-degreed on a flight to Rochester.)

But I'm going to keep flying, although not this holiday season. Probably not until the BCS championship. (Go Ducks! :hello: ) To me, this TSA stuff is just part of the deal, and I'm not going to get in a blood-pressure-hiking snit because of it.
I haven't flown El Al since the '70's. Lately, I have flown Delta and Continental.

The suggestion is 3 hrs for flights leaving Israel and 40 minutes for in-country flights.

The process is less than the 3rd degree and every time I have been questioned it was 2 minutes or less each by 3 or 4 different people. The point is they have layers: for flights leaving Israel the armed soldiers are 1/2 km from the airport; the bomb/explosive sniffing dogs are roving; you are questioned while standing in the line to have your bags x-rayed and swiped for explosives; the person checking you and your bags in/assigning seats is trained to spot a bad guys; you go thru at least one metal detector; the customs agent stamping your passport is trained to spot a terrorist - and your shoes stay on the entire time.

You rarely stand in any one line for a long time-you keep getting shuffled deeper into the terminal.

I've never felt like I was getting the 3rd degree. I never felt I was treated rudely. Everyone is friendly and professional. Going thru security in the USA is a bigger hassle, especially with kids.

If PC was not the order of the day here, we could have the same system.

[Louis]

WWTWBS?

(What would the Wright brothers say?)

[JMerring]

WWTWBS?

(What would the Wright brothers say?)

they call that food?

[93legendti]

I sure ain't. O'Sama Baby has got to be laughing his a## off. He won.


and the defeat started in 1913, Dec 23, when most of Congress was outa town.
I doubt it. Nasrallah admitted after the 2006 Lebanon War that "If I had known Israel would respond as they did, I wouldn't have started the War".
He thought he would get away with it-as did Osama. Nasrallah lives in a very deep bunker and comes up once a year for air. Same for Osama.

If Osama had "won" we'd be wearing burkas. Victory to them is total defeat of the enemy. They do NOT define winning as "making us spend more money and time on security".

People/countries start wars because they think they can win and they are stronger than the other side. One of Osama's stated beefs and claimed causus belli was that USA forces occuppied/were in Saudia Arabia. Now we are also in Afghanistan, Iraq and Pakistan. We are also operating over Somalia.

Not for a second does Osama think he won. Not for a second.


http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/11/22/AR2010112205514.html?hpid=topnews

One possibility that could generate public support is the use of profiling at airports, where the TSA would single out specific passengers for extra screening based on available information. Overall, 70 percent of Americans back the idea, which has been floated as an alternative.

[RPS]

That's kinda how I feel about it. No big deal. I'll just take the hassle factor into consideration when I make my next flying decision. I've been thru most of this stuff before anyway.
I honestly understand your position, yet at the same time wonder at what point you too would balk? If not here when? Personally I don’t want to be the slow-boiling frog but respect anyone who does. :beer:

[RPS]

I don’t think the backlash against TSA is primarily about inconvenience or a hassle factor as some here have expressed. The rage many feel right now towards TSA is due to what they feel as the indignity of being treated -- against their will -- like felons or farm animals. Apparently naked photos and/or groping crosses a line that demeans (some) people regardless of the great intentions.

I also wonder if our first lady was flying commercial with her daughters if they would be subjected to naked photos or else to spread their legs so a complete stranger could grope their crotch. Kind of doubtful, right? What a public relations nightmare it would be if someone got cell phone photos of a TSA employee with her hand up Obama’s dress. And if too intrusive for them and too demeaning for our first lady then why should we subject every flying American woman to that indignity? Is she that special compared to our mothers, wives, daughters, sisters, etc…? Not to me. I hope they can find a better way to provide safety.

[Dekonick]

A very good point, just think of what the most common items carried on
airplanes are, put out some youtube video and let the media panic everyone.

cellphones, laptops, luggage, magicshine lights........

This point was mentioned in a book a co worker was reading on terrorism... unfortunately it holds a lot of truth...

we are our own worst enemy.

Wrong quote - but same point. All terrorists have to do is attempt and be discovered. In the end it achieves the goal they are after - bastards.

[Dekonick]

I rember back in the 80's that in Belgium the airport had thick plexiglass walls, grenade nets, guards with assault riffles, and security police profiling. I felt safe.

The crap we are doing here in the US does nothing for security.

[Ralph]

I honestly understand your position, yet at the same time wonder at what point you too would balk? If not here when? Personally I don’t want to be the slow-boiling frog but respect anyone who does. :beer:

Like many of you, I don't like how air travel has gone. So for me, I drive when I can, usually trips under 600 miles I drive. Hassle factor just too much. Not to memtion fact I get there about as soon, considering time spent driving to airport, getting there early, time in air, time spent renting a car, etc.

Currently planning a trip next spring to Montana, then down to Ft Collins- Boulder area for a while. Being retired, I can drive. Probably will, and take my bike. Though hiking probably better that time of year (cold-muddy...maybe snow). Will figure out a way to make trip interesting, follow Lewis and Clark some in Dakota's. Want to go to Wounded Knee. Already been where Custer got it. Years past, I would have flown town to town etc on some low cost regional airline. So current situation is costing airlines some of my money.

But as far as seeing this as an assault on my liberty, I just don't. I think they are just doing their job...as they see it. And I'm not being forced to fly. So maybe that explains my view.

If I were flying on business, I might think different.

[rwsaunders]

I was traveling through Denver last week when the confused gent in front of me was pulled from the line as his luggage was being scanned. As I gathered my gear at the end of the scanner line, I watched in amazement as the TSA agent pulled a pint of tequila from the gent's backpack.

As far as I'm concerned, a fine and a few hours in a holding tank would most likely ensure that the gent would think twice when packing his carry-on luggage in the future.

PS....I overheard the gent say that he was traveling with the tequila to Spokane. :cool:

[bike22]

i don't fly.

[Dekonick]

tequila...
Yup. Definitely going to hijack a plane with that... :(

[Louis]

PS....I overheard the gent say that he was traveling with the tequila to Spokane. :cool:

Could not have been DT, he would have finished it all before getting on the plane.

[TMB]

..............

[ahumblecycler]

Wow ... this thread :eek: ... just needs to be locked :confused:

[onekgguy]

Or you can relax and try and make the best of it. (http://www.nbc.com/saturday-night-live/video/message-from-tsa/1261478)

Kevin g

[firerescuefin]

This thread was never about bikes being able to fly but an ubsubstantiated/ignorant rant against TSA. It should have never gotten off the ground. Like a deer that's been hit by a car...it needs to be put down.

[RPS]

This thread was never about bikes being able to fly but an ubsubstantiated/ignorant rant against TSA. It should have never gotten off the ground. Like a deer that's been hit by a car...it needs to be put down.
Thanks for calling me ignorant.

It's sad you can't see the connection because it hasn't happned to YOU yet. Keep it up, we need more Americans like you.

[sg8357]

.. _

RPS = Tom Cruise, FireNRescue = Jack Nicholson

Our Thanksgiving Special presentation of "A Few Good Men"

[firerescuefin]

Thanks for calling me ignorant.

It's sad you can't see the connection because it hasn't happned to YOU yet. Keep it up, we need more Americans like you.


I have served in the military and lived in the Balkans and Middle East for a total of 7 years. I helped structure and develope a WMD reponse task force in both. I have worked closely with DHS and TSA. Your rant is inflammatory, ignorant, and ridiculous. You talk/speculate about things you have no idea about. You OP was misleading and was intended to draw people into your black helicopter/ my rights are being violated world. I don't pretend to be something that I am not and argue about fiscal policy (but I happily sit in the corner of the room and listen). TSA has a job that nobody wants, is nearly impossible to wrap your arms around, and that no one is willing to commit the necessary resources to.

[RPS]

I have served in the military and lived in the Balkans and Middle East for a total of 7 years. I helped structure and develope a WMD reponse task force in both. I have worked closely with DHS and TSA. Your rant is inflammatory, ignorant, and ridiculous. You talk/speculate about things you have no idea about. You OP was misleading and was intended to draw people into your black helicopter/ my rights are being violated world. I don't pretend to be something that I am not and argue about fiscal policy (but I happily sit in the corner of the room and listen). TSA has a job that nobody wants, is nearly impossible to wrap your arms around, and that no one is willing to commit the necessary resources to.
And you think I couldn’t tell you had connections to TSA or similar? Give me a break.

With all due respect your military service, although praiseworthy, means nothing to me in the context of this thread. I doubt you have experienced a government that acted against its people so slowly that few complained until it was too late. That you served honorably doesn’t necessarily give you insight into how governments work. You may be brilliant but you could also be clueless in spite of your service. One has little to do with the other.

How do you explain the millions who are pissed – are they also ignorant and looking to be inflammatory? That’s a great counter-argument when you disagree with anything. And on not being an expert like you, should all forum input be limited to experts so that when anyone without an engineering degree states anything about engineering I jump all over their ass and call them ignorant? Is that what you want?

By the way, Pistole now admits he made a mistake by not taking the advice of others in warning the public in advance. Not an apology but admitting an error. Do you want to bet that it’s the first step in placing distance between his decisions and the administration’s before they throw him under the bus or clip his wings?


I am sorry I didn’t put an OT in front of the thread title and that I used a little sarcasm. But when has it been wrong to discuss concerns about things that haven’t happened yet but could? How many times have we discussed the possibility of carbon parts breaking before they actually failed? That bikes won’t be able to fly with us on a commercial flight falls in the same category of discussion in my opinion.

[onekgguy]

I have served in the military and lived in the Balkans and Middle East for a total of 7 years. I helped structure and develope a WMD reponse task force in both. I have worked closely with DHS and TSA. Your rant is inflammatory, ignorant, and ridiculous. You talk/speculate about things you have no idea about. You OP was misleading and was intended to draw people into your black helicopter/ my rights are being violated world. I don't pretend to be something that I am not and argue about fiscal policy (but I happily sit in the corner of the room and listen). TSA has a job that nobody wants, is nearly impossible to wrap your arms around, and that no one is willing to commit the necessary resources to.

I went back and read the original post from RPS. The only thing possibly ignorant about what he said was the idea that a petition could be useful; but that's just my opinion. Other than that I think his sentiments aren't far off at all. As we see how flying is becoming increasingly restrictive it's a logical concern to wonder if something that's important to him, his bike, is going to get caught up in the paranoia.

I also went back and looked at a few of your recent posts. You seem angry.

Kevin g

[RPS]

Please close thread.

[firerescuefin]

And you think I couldn’t tell you had connections to TSA or similar? Give me a break.

With all due respect your military service, although praiseworthy, means nothing to me in the context of this thread. I doubt you have experienced a government that acted against its people so slowly that few complained until it was too late. That you served honorably doesn’t necessarily give you insight into how governments work. You may be brilliant but you could also be clueless in spite of your service. One has little to do with the other.



My service and working with people in this arena does qualify me to have an informed response, not one based on conjecture, assumptions, and beliefs....unless I am a part of the conspiracy to take away your rights also. Amusing that you (in the context of this thread) throw around the words like brilliant and clueless......one thing we do agree on...close the thread.

...and Kevin, this thread (as acknowleded by RPS) was never "about the bike"....

[rugbysecondrow]

I doubt bikes would show up on their radar to ban. Some airlines make decent scratch on recreational flyers who bring gear. Southwest does a great job with those who bring gear ( bikes specifically) so I doubt that will end anytime soon.

As for the TSA related comments, I fly quite a bit for work and I have to say I am surprised by the coverage TSA has received lately. I have seen a decrease in line times and the TSA doing a better job of profiling and conducting searches. I am suspect of all these news stories as all you see is the video of some child being searched, but with no context. I have witnessed parents running late with kids at the airport and who knows if they request the search be done there in an attempt to make their flight.

Lastly, don't you think it is more than coincidental that these stories hit the major networks the week before thanksgiving, one of the busiest travel times of the year? I bet they have been planning on running this story since summer/spring and have been dredging up every 80 year old women who feels she has been wronged by being searched, like the TSA really wants to search her. This is a canned story, no really journalism here but just cheap filler.

Don't take the bait.

[54ny77]

Who the heck did airport security before TSA? Wasn't it private firms or quasi-gov't agency anyway?

Most of the delays I've seen at airports aren't due to the morons checking boarding passes or screening luggage, but rather it's poor design of the airport terminal layout. It's always been that way. For example, there's often just one (ONE!) line to go into the American Airlines D terminal at JFK. Sometimes they open up two, if the stars come into alignment or the passenger line goes out the door into the street.... :mad:

I know of someone who works at TSA, and he graduated from mall parking lot security, wrestling errant shopping carts from hostile empty parking spaces. It cracks me up to think of that person now partly responsible for the safety of air travelers... :D

[rugbysecondrow]

The rub is that these are thankless/crappy jobs that attract those who have few other options or those who work for a year or two as a resume builder until they can find something else.

Re: airport designs, some are nearly impossible to retrofit in an efficient way. They do they best they can, but they have shoe horned the TSA and the screening stations into airports that were designed and constructed well before 2001.

[firerescuefin]

Who the heck did airport security before TSA? Wasn't it private firms or quasi-gov't agency anyway?

Most of the delays I've seen at airports aren't due to the morons checking boarding passes or screening luggage, but rather it's poor design of the airport terminal layout. It's always been that way. For example, there's often just one (ONE!) line to go into the American Airlines D terminal at JFK. Sometimes they open up two, if the stars come into alignment or the passenger line goes out the door into the street.... :mad:

I know of someone who works at TSA, and he graduated from mall parking lot security, wrestling errant shopping carts from hostile empty parking spaces. It cracks me up to think of that person now partly responsible for the safety of air travelers... :D


"Morons and parking lot security"....

See my statement above about resources. 54, next time you go through the line, verbally acknowledge to the agent(s) how hard their job is and thank them for doing it. You will be amazed and encouraged by their response. To those that criticize these folks, I would like you to work in this job for a day. I have not, but having worked closesly with DHS and Force Protection efforts in the military, I watch these operations closely when I travel. All they see is the worst in travelers. In this "new" economy, you would be suprised by the education that many of them have...but as Rugby mentioned, those folks are quickly off to something else.

[ahumblecycler]

Please stop ... seriously. Everyone ... please!

Thanksgiving is in a couple of days, and I for one will be thankful that I survived the Camry and will eat my tofu and prepare for my first below freezing ride.

:beer:

[54ny77]

Well, the person I know who's now at TSA was doing exactly that prior, so I don't know what else to say.... :confused: Couldn't get a job as a cop (he's too fat, no joke), so the TSA was a better gig. God bless 'Merica. :rolleyes:

It's all about perspective--you deal with one level of qualified people, while the rest of us have to deal with a different subset on the front lines, as it were. The very....long....front...lines..... :banana:

Oh & the "step in his shoes" argument is a red herring. Bad employees are bad employees, no matter what industry.

"Morons and parking lot security"....

See my statement above about resources. 54, next time you go through the line, verbally acknowledge to the agent(s) how hard their job is and thank them for doing it. You will be amazed and encouraged by their response. To those that criticize these folks, I would like you to work in this job for a day. I have not, but having worked closesly with DHS and Force Protection efforts in the military, I watch these operations closely when I travel. All they see is the worst in travelers. In this "new" economy, you would be suprised by the education that many of them have...but as Rugby mentioned, those folks are quickly off to something else.

[firerescuefin]

....as is the I know a guy...so the rest of them are POS also is also a red herring/overgeneralization. I am not here telling you that all of those on the front lines are great folks, but the morons/mall cop label is in poor taste, at the very least, and in some cases, completely inaccurate.

I made the comment about resources earlier. The reality is that the price tag of doing that job correctly is too high, and TSA/Government/Airlines that are paying a TSA tax/Customers that that tax is being passed on to don't want to absorb/pay that. So until we want to acknowledge it for what it is (broken) and stop making it a "those bastards are out to take my rights and enjoy feeling up 80 year old women" we will get nowhere.

[RPS]

They do they best they can, but they have shoe horned the TSA and the screening stations into airports that were designed and constructed well before 2001.
For what its worth, airport security was around well before 9/11. I flew weekly all over the US for 15 years prior to 2001.

Many younger Americans can’t recall when they could fly without going through any security at all because they weren’t around then. As I recall security started sometime around the 70s or so when hijackers took planes to receptive governments in the Caribbean. Although casualties were relatively few then by comparison security consisting of metal detectors was put in place to keep hijackers from taking guns on board (if I recall correctly).

[drewski]

[QUOTE=firerescuefin]....as is the I know a guy...so the rest of them are POS also is also a red herring/overgeneralization. I am not here telling you that all of those on the front lines are great folks, but the morons/mall cop label is in poor taste, at the very least, and in some cases, completely inaccurate.

I made the comment about resources earlier. The reality is that the price tag of doing that job correctly is too high, and TSA/Government/Airlines that are paying a TSA tax/Customers that that tax is being passed on to don't want to absorb/pay that. So until we want to acknowledge it for what it is (broken) and stop making it a "those bastards are out to take my rights and enjoy feeling up 80 year old women" we will get nowhere.[/QU OTE]


You have this nailed. Have you seen how many suitcases and
carry on bags some people bring. People have this entitlement attitude
when they fly. I think this sense of deserving cheap, quick air travel
with cheap security is completely out of touch with reality.

The next time you critize the TSA folks look in the mirror.

[RPS]

My service and working with people in this arena does qualify me to have an informed response, not one based on conjecture, assumptions, and beliefs....unless I am a part of the conspiracy to take away your rights also. Amusing that you (in the context of this thread) throw around the words like brilliant and clueless......one thing we do agree on...close the thread.

Please don’t put words in my mouth.

Not once have I stated that there is a TSA conspiracy against me, nor that anyone is trying to limit my rights -- that’s all on you. You are taking this too personal when no one here has questioned TSA employees for begrudgingly doing their work (apparently they don’t want to frisk people either) but rather the decisions made by the upper TSA hierarchy.

You’re attacking me personally by suggesting I’m simply an agitator and that there is absolutely nothing wrong without addressing simple facts like why our own lawmakers in Washington are also pissed. Try standing back from your own association with TSA for a change and imagine how some of us may feel differently than you. There is nothing inherently wrong with disagreement IMHO.

However, if you keep attacking me personally we are going to have a problem.

[nahtnoj]

I think the best security is the passengers on the plane. After 9/11 no group of passengers is just going to sit there and let terrorists commandeer a plane, or light their underwear on fire, whatever.

"If you see something, say something".

Translation - your elected leaders and government officials are too PC to do any profiling, but please, do it for us.

[Pete Serotta]

Please feel free to open another thread. Closed per requests of posters (and me ;) . PETE