View Full Version : Somebody, please help me tell my buddy to not buy a Motobecane from BikesDirect
Louis
11-16-2010, 08:41 PM
He's looking for a CF frame. Currently riding generic AL. So I've sent him links to several very nice options offered here and across the hall. (Parlee Z4, etc) All these are around $1500 for frame and fork.
Today he sends me this link: Bikes Direct (http://www.bikesdirect.com/products/motobecane/immortalforce_10.htm) and says "Why shouldn't I buy this complete bike for the price of just the frame and fork of the stuff you're telling me to buy?"
I tell him it's not even a comparison. Would anyone else care to comment on those frames?
(By the way, it's not a lack money issue - he's a gainfully employed engineer. But he is cheap.)
Louis
Actually, in one of the later Bicycling magazines, a favorable review was given to the Motobecane, though I think it was the Ti version.
rounder
11-16-2010, 08:49 PM
Tell him that riding around on a Motobecane would be a sensible thing to do. But, not even any accountants you know would ride around on a Motobecane.
StellaBlue
11-16-2010, 08:50 PM
They are no worse than any other mass produced frame..
(By the way, it's not a lack money issue - he's a gainfully employed engineer. But he is cheap.)
Louis
Re-read this. Ask him what he thinks of the bike from an engineer's pov. Maybe that will sway him for or against.
Elefantino
11-16-2010, 08:52 PM
One of my riding buddies has a Motobecane CF (I forget the model name) and he loves it. Says it's the best bike he's ever had, and he's had a number of them.
He is a former senior state champion who has raced for years. Knows his stuff.
Not that I'd buy one, but I'd never tell someone not to buy something unless I had a bad experience with it or new first-hand of someone who had. But that's me.
BobbyJones
11-16-2010, 08:53 PM
Here's the Bicycling Mag review: http://www.bicycling.com/gear/detail/0,7989,s1-16-155-2504-0,00.html
Tell him to spend the leftover cash on custom stickers with his last name on it- people will think it's a high-end, low volume mfg they never heard of.
let him buy what he wants. i learned the hard way when i tried to help a friend get a pinarello. he bought a low end trek instead. sometimes it boggles my mind when people ask for your help, and still do whatever they want anyway.
and generally engineers always like to be right so.... good luck with that
Hmmm...fully-equipped Ti w/Dura Ace. $2800.
http://www.bikesdirect.com/products/motobecane/lechamp_teamti_10.htm
I wonder where the frames are made/originate?
rnhood
11-16-2010, 09:20 PM
There are a lot of happy riders on Motobecanes, road bikes and mountain bikes. The deals on some of them are stunning. I think the bikes are probably average, but an average bike today is a good bike. If he goes in this direction and decides to upgrade later, well he has not really lost much money and, if he has the DA equipped model then he can just transfer the group and throw away the frame. The monetary loss will quite small.
I would go for the Z4 at $1500, that is awfully good deal too. But I would not throw stones at him for considering the Motobecane.
StellaBlue
11-16-2010, 09:27 PM
Hmmm...fully-equipped Ti w/Dura Ace. $2800.
http://www.bikesdirect.com/products/motobecane/lechamp_teamti_10.htm
I wonder where the frames are made/originate?
The same place 98% of frames are made today
BengeBoy
11-16-2010, 09:27 PM
I have helped a couple of friends pick out BikesDirect bikes; they were very good deals and my friends are happy w/the bikes. We price compared against other private label/house brand bikes (Performance, REI Novara, etc.), and the deals at BikesDirect stack up pretty well.
I think the BikesDirect marketing approach is cheesy -- they feature inflated list prices; some of their language on their website is over-the-top, etc. -- but the deals seem good to me. I wouldn't have any problem owning one under the right circumstances.
Shoeman
11-16-2010, 09:35 PM
The same place 98% of frames are made today
Pretty much hit the nail on the head with that one!!!!!
chromopromo
11-16-2010, 09:39 PM
I bet your buddy will be perfectly happy on the Motobecane. I love steel but broke down and bought a cheap Pedal Force CF frame and it performs great. I got to ride a top of the line Look 595 this summer and frankly my Pedal Force is not much of a step down and retails for 1/3 the price. If your cheap and don't have a passion for the fine craftmanship of the expensive frames, the Motobecane looks pretty good.
vqdriver
11-16-2010, 09:58 PM
It's tough to convince someone unfamiliar with bikes that the motebecane is not a good choice. And the merits either way can go on forever. But at least steer him towards rei where he can get some sort of service and friendly staff or to neuvation, a small operation.
The same place 98% of frames are made today
Is that a bad thing?
cnighbor1
11-16-2010, 10:07 PM
My riding freind did just that. Mostly Ultegra components.
At $675 a great buy. he has riden it about 100 miles per week for 7 years. Finally replaced wheels
If your not going to race at CAT 1 and not sure how much your going to use a bike start low than if you realy get into biking keep the 1st bike for rainly days and causal rides
Actually, in one of the later Bicycling magazines, a favorable review was given to the Motobecane, though I think it was the Ti version.
In all honesty though, it's hard to find a review in Bicycling that isn't favorable.
StellaBlue
11-16-2010, 10:14 PM
Is that a bad thing?
No, just a fact..
tuxbailey
11-16-2010, 10:35 PM
I think the options they have are pretty good, specially for someone who is getting into the biking. And if you are even marginally mechanically inclined, adjusting the bikes would be easy out of the box.
If I didn't find my Merlin for a good deal, I would have bought their entry level Ti Bike ($1599 Compact Ultegra FSA mixed group.) It is hard to beat for the value/price ratio since it includes shipping and no tax.
And they also have a warranty to boot.
I sorta' look at it as getting a good deal on a gruppo that comes with a bike to use it on :D
Louis
11-16-2010, 11:26 PM
Thanks for the feedback guys.
Obviously my buddy's going to do what he wants to do (which I'm 99% sure will be to go the less expensive route). I figured I'd dredge up some additional data (this thread, which I've already pointed out to him) to help him make an informed decision.
Louis
GuyGadois
11-17-2010, 12:54 AM
I have owned two Motobecane's from BikesDirect and have had zero problems with them. My first was a bike for my wife a Reynolds 753 which is awesome and mine was a AL bike which beat my back up. I sold off the frame and kept the Campy Record components. At one time you could buy the full bike with Campy Record (QS) for less then the group at the LBS. I believe the bikes are made in the same factory as Cervelo, Nike, my Uniden phone and Bic pens. Just depends which day they make what.
Also, check out the bikes from Neuvation. They have very aggressive pricing and they look goooood. The CX bike is a steal too.
Le Gadois
Lifelover
11-17-2010, 06:11 AM
Tell him to pick up the phone and give them a call.
If he can reach them, than he should go ahead and buy it. If he can't reach them he should get a low end CF bike from someone else.
BTW, they have no phone number.
Performance and maybe even Colorado cyclist have prices that are comparable. Just need to look for sales.
I'd grab the used Parlee every time, but the Motobecane may be fine whether it's a long-term bike or something he grows out of (if only to swap the parts over onto something else). If it fits, and he doesn't know why he wants something else, maybe he should just ride it for a year or two and develop a sense of what he wants to be different.
One thing to tell the engineer is that the contact points are important, for comfort/health on the bike as well as performance -- that's both an issue of their relative positions and the contours of the bars and saddles. Is the stock stem the right one? Are the bars the right ones? How about the saddle? It's not rocket surgery but it's useful to have somebody help sort these things out if he's not sufficiently experienced to do it himself -- an issue for a used bikes as well as this type of mail order. The bike might be fine out of the box; and he might think that it's a good value even if he has to experiment with swapping various parts, but it's at least worth considering whether the bargain price requires replacing the bars, the stem, and the saddle and, if so, what that does to the magnitude of the bargain.
AngryScientist
11-17-2010, 07:12 AM
i also work for a large engineering firm, and generally - everyone's different.
when i look around the parking lot, my co-workers drive anything from base honda civics to higher end mercedes/bmw.
some folks are cool with the basics, some want more flair.
SEABREEZE
11-17-2010, 07:45 AM
My riding freind did just that. Mostly Ultegra components.
At $675 a great buy. he has riden it about 100 miles per week for 7 years. Finally replaced wheels
If your not going to race at CAT 1 and not sure how much your going to use a bike start low than if you realy get into biking keep the 1st bike for rainly days and causal rides
Very well put in perspective,aditionally, lots of postive responces from many forum members.
It appears as others have said, there frames are on par with many others that are on the market
From a business and marketing standpoint, it appears there philosophy is sell cheaper then everyone else, with there goal to do volume sales, which probably equals out to higher prices but less sales.
It appears they are sucessful with there strategies.
Nooch
11-17-2010, 08:56 AM
i was riding a 2000 trek 1000 alpha when I found my fiance's motobecane le champion sl on craigslist. Newer bike with 105 and felt 1000x better than my trek.
Long story short, it might not be an s-works or a meivici, but the things going to pedal just as well as anything else on the road, for not much $$.
but I will add, of course, that it's not helping out the local bike shops. so there's that.
johnnymossville
11-17-2010, 09:02 AM
I'd tell him to go for it. It's a good value bike and it's his money.
sg8357
11-17-2010, 09:08 AM
but I will add, of course, that it's not helping out the local bike shops. so there's that.
Worth paying the LBS to take the bike to bits and reassemble with
grease and the correct torque values.
Habanero offers good Chinese Ti without the fake rolex vibe of BikesDirect.
http://www.habcycles.com/roadpric.html
Worth paying the LBS to take the bike to bits and reassemble with
grease and the correct torque values.
Yes. A guy brought in a new Windsor bike that wasn't shifting properly. There were a few problems with the build which needed to be corrected.
d_douglas
11-17-2010, 09:16 AM
I have friend that cannot understand why I would buy a Serotta frameset or whatever when I could buy a fullly euqipped Trek or equivalent. There is no logical argument, as Treks or some Motobecanes are good bikes, but I prefer snobbery over value ;)
I rode MTB with a different friend this weekend who, in spite of me suggesting that a 29er was his ticket (he's nearly an exclusive road rider), he bought an FS trek 26er. Nice bike, but not what suited him. I had suggested a Salsa El Mariachi, a Niner, a Vicious, but he simply said that he would rather buy from a large and established company vs some 'flaky little cottage company' (He rides a C50 roadie). You cannot win that argument.
Oh well . . . . .
Dekonick
11-17-2010, 09:18 AM
I have friend that cannot understand why I would buy a Serotta frameset or whatever when I could buy a fullly euqipped Trek or equivalent. There is no logical argument, as Treks or some Motobecanes are good bikes, but I prefer snobbery over value ;)
I rode MTB with a different friend this weekend who, in spite of me suggesting that a 29er was his ticket (he's nearly an exclusive road rider), he bought an FS trek 26er. Nice bike, but not what suited him. I had suggested a Salsa El Mariachi, a Niner, a Vicious, but he simply said that he would rather buy from a large and established company vs some 'flaky little cottage company' (He rides a C50 roadie). You cannot win that argument.
Oh well . . . . .
What is wrong with 26er's?
dlflemingos
11-17-2010, 10:28 AM
Hilarious. I must confess that I sent that email to Louis as a sounding board and to get a reaction. I was somewhat disappointed at the lack of reaction (email) but this post more than makes up for that. I did get two desperate plea's from Weisan last night, so I suspected that something was up. The comments are actually very interesting and helpful. I'll have to read the rest later (at work) but my first impression is that the pro cheap bike are actually winning.
3yrs ago when needing an upgrade, and having 3 tuitions, I went the cheap route ($720 iron horse, Alum, carbon fork and chainstays with Ultegra) and it has worked out pretty well. Personally, I still think the iron horse is better than me (riding abilities) but there is a desire for a better bike and the engineer in me (an aerospace structural engr) is very interested.
Yes, the tuition situation is better and I have a bit more time but also a bit less ability. Appreciate all the comments. We'll see what works out.
GuyGadois
11-17-2010, 11:21 AM
Tell him to pick up the phone and give them a call.
If he can reach them, than he should go ahead and buy it. If he can't reach them he should get a low end CF bike from someone else.
BTW, they have no phone number.
Performance and maybe even Colorado cyclist have prices that are comparable. Just need to look for sales.
A main reason why they offer such cheap prices is that they really don't offer telephone service (I believe). I have e-mailed the chap and have received responses. This is the classic trade-off case. You are trading customer service for cheap prices. I feel comfortable I can handle most problems of buying a bike (asssembly and such) so it made sense. That may not make sense to someone who needs the cables adjusted by a LBS when the stretch.
As for Performace or Colorado Cyclist offering sale price that are competative, I don't think their prices can come close to BikesDirect. I would venture to sy I could buy a full bike for the cost of a group at Colorado Cyclist (I haven't done the comparison but that is my uneducated guess).
But, if I was in the market for an inexpensive mail order bike I would buy a Neuvation. Their prices are great and they have solid builds.
Gadois
false_Aest
11-17-2010, 11:30 AM
Other than this being the Serotta forum (and therefore inherently snobbish) I don't really get this thread.
IF:
1) he buys the frame
2) it fits correctly
3) it goes and shifts
4) he's happy
Then:
1) WHAT IS THE ISSUE?
Possible Responses:
1) Dude, I've been to the Moto Pecan factory and saw them using 4 year old Indonesian kids to lay cf with their tongues.
2) Dude, its not a Serotta and I don't wanna be seen riding with him.
3) Dude, it's not 10% stiffer.
4) Whoa. If he beats me to the town line on this bike and my wife finds out then I get no more expensive toys.
5) Dude, both of us fall on far end of the bell curve where people can tell the difference between things like tires at 100 and 102psi, Chamois Crisco vs Chamois Buttr or water and di-hydrogen monoxide.
6) The person we're actually speaking about is my 10 year old child and I'm trying to help him prevent making a mistake.
----
Ritte Van Vlaaaaaannnnnnddddereeresomething orders bikes from asia, paints em and wins on them frequently.
Idris Icabod
11-17-2010, 11:58 AM
I've seen a load of these in AZ as they have a sister brick and mortar shop selling similar stuff. Had a guy who works here go and get one from the shop. It was really well equipped and a real deal. I just asked him about it 5 minutes ago and he loves it a year in. I have read some stories about the mail order ones being poorly assembled, but shouldn't be much more than a bit of tightening here and there, your friend is an engineer he should be up to that challenge.
As an aside they are looking in to a Di2 equipped bike which may be interesting to see their price point. BD seem to be a bit like Raleigh USA to me. Raleigh started off with some pretty generic looking bikes but they seem smart and are really listening to the cycling community and have some great bikes on offer now fitting some appealing niches.
Pete Serotta
11-17-2010, 12:00 PM
Buy what puts the smile on your face. I know I sound like a worn out record but if it sounds to be too good to be true - - there is a high chance that it has a low odds for some unpleasant emotion for the buyer.
Taylor's in the past was a good example of this for the delivery times, from what I hear, are still over the horizon.
People's love for something does not always equate to snobbery. :o
Rest assured that a good fitting bike is not a serious handicap to a fast ride but what the rider likes in a bike can make it more pleasurable.
fourflys
11-17-2010, 01:39 PM
Hilarious. I must confess that I sent that email to Louis as a sounding board and to get a reaction. I was somewhat disappointed at the lack of reaction (email) but this post more than makes up for that. I did get two desperate plea's from Weisan last night, so I suspected that something was up. The comments are actually very interesting and helpful. I'll have to read the rest later (at work) but my first impression is that the pro cheap bike are actually winning.
3yrs ago when needing an upgrade, and having 3 tuitions, I went the cheap route ($720 iron horse, Alum, carbon fork and chainstays with Ultegra) and it has worked out pretty well. Personally, I still think the iron horse is better than me (riding abilities) but there is a desire for a better bike and the engineer in me (an aerospace structural engr) is very interested.
Yes, the tuition situation is better and I have a bit more time but also a bit less ability. Appreciate all the comments. We'll see what works out.
buy the Moto if it floats your boat.... sure, it's not a Parlee or a Serotta, but you get a GREAT parts spec on (from what I hear) a decent CF frame/fork...
Bikes are funny... when I was looking at Ti bikes, I was at my LBS who sold Litespeed and asked the owner if he (30 years in the business and as a rider) thought I would feel the difference between the $1500 Xicon f/f or the $3k Icon f/f... he said most people would have no idea if they couldn't see the bike/stickers... so I bought the Xicon and couldn't be happier...
The bottom line is you could buy a used upper shelf bike that has used parts (probably work fine) or a new "lower-end" bike (by some's opinion) with brand new parts... BTW- I never had a issue with communication with Bikes Direct when I was researching 29ers... and I've heard Mike is pretty responsive with warranty issues...
Do what feels best to you, because in the end you'll regret it if you don't...
Chris
jlwdm
11-17-2010, 02:26 PM
Lots of deals to be had right now. For those in the Seattle area, Veloce Velo on Mercer Island is having a big blowout sale this weekend. All framesets half off and lots of bikes half off. Colnago Master X-Light for example is $1350. All cross bikes half off.
You have to be there Sat a.m. though.
Veloce Velo is a great LBS.
Jeff
BengeBoy
11-17-2010, 02:37 PM
Lots of deals to be had right now. For those in the Seattle area, Veloce Velo on Mercer Island is having a big blowout sale this weekend. All framesets half off and lots of bikes half off. Colnago Master X-Light for example is $1350. All cross bikes half off.
You have to be there Sat a.m. though.
Veloce Velo is a great LBS.
Jeff
Wow. Good thing I'm going to be out of town this weekend.
nahtnoj
11-17-2010, 02:47 PM
"You like some things, I like some things, we like some things… but “gets it” is tough because the folks that get it, already get it and it isn’t verbal. The folks that don’t get it don’t know that it exists or get other things, so it doesn’t matter… and the ones that are hurt by it have other issues to the extent that you can’t even have the conversation with them, because it becomes some sort of insult or rejection. And so, the folks that have the light on inside will seek it out and walk down the path propelled by their own curiosity… or something like that. Point is… I see one and I feel happy about it. I ride one and I feel that same thing."
buck-50
11-17-2010, 03:19 PM
Seems like 90% of frames these days are completely interchangeable. Strip the stickers off that MBK and it doesn't look too different than a lot of other carbon frames.
And as for service, if a bike shop is dumb enough to refuse to service a bike I bring in just because I didn't buy it from them, I can bet they'll be out of business soon enough.
Any decent shop will work on anything you bring in because that's where the money is.
So, buy it, ride it, wreck it, replace the frame with a slightly more "prestigious" frame and be done with it.
Nooch
11-19-2010, 08:59 AM
And as for service, if a bike shop is dumb enough to refuse to service a bike I bring in just because I didn't buy it from them, I can bet they'll be out of business soon enough.
Any decent shop will work on anything you bring in because that's where the money is.
True, except when it comes to bikes that are built using non-standardized parts (some huffy's come to mind here). In a world of metric, when someone brings something that might utilize a different "standard" and the tools just aren't there at the moment.
this, however, isn't the case with motobacon.
ss-jimbo
11-28-2010, 07:58 PM
Not that it matters much, but the Moto Ti bikes are made in Taiwan.
Habanero offers good Chinese Ti without the fake rolex vibe of BikesDirect.
http://www.habcycles.com/roadpric.html
maxdog
11-28-2010, 08:13 PM
"You like some things, I like some things, we like some things… but “gets it” is tough because the folks that get it, already get it and it isn’t verbal. The folks that don’t get it don’t know that it exists or get other things, so it doesn’t matter… and the ones that are hurt by it have other issues to the extent that you can’t even have the conversation with them, because it becomes some sort of insult or rejection. And so, the folks that have the light on inside will seek it out and walk down the path propelled by their own curiosity… or something like that. Point is… I see one and I feel happy about it. I ride one and I feel that same thing."
+1
wc1934
11-28-2010, 08:20 PM
buy the Moto if it floats your boat.... sure, it's not a Parlee or a Serotta, but you get a GREAT parts spec on (from what I hear) a decent CF frame/fork...
Bikes are funny... when I was looking at Ti bikes, I was at my LBS who sold Litespeed and asked the owner if he (30 years in the business and as a rider) thought I would feel the difference between the $1500 Xicon f/f or the $3k Icon f/f... he said most people would have no idea if they couldn't see the bike/stickers... so I bought the Xicon and couldn't be happier...
The bottom line is you could buy a used upper shelf bike that has used parts (probably work fine) or a new "lower-end" bike (by some's opinion) with brand new parts... BTW- I never had a issue with communication with Bikes Direct when I was researching 29ers... and I've heard Mike is pretty responsive with warranty issues...
Do what feels best to you, because in the end you'll regret it if you don't...
Chris
I too have heard that they are very responsive with warranty issues - guy in our group ride bought their road bike with fsa/ultegra groupo - stripped it - kept the parts and sold the frame and fork - new buyer of the frame and fork built it back up only to have the fork crack - I was told that they replaced the fork with no questions asked -
Catnap
11-29-2010, 05:38 PM
i often recommend BikesDirect to friends & acquaintances asking me where to get a new bike. the only caveat, which I tell them, is that they are not going to get the personalized service and after-sale mechanical support that they would get from an LBS.
rugbysecondrow
11-29-2010, 06:16 PM
Taylor's in the past was a good example of this for the delivery times, from what I hear, are still over the horizon.
So true and I learned the hard way.
To the OPs friend, buy what you will ride and enjoy, spend the rest on beers and burgers afterwards.
One last point. You might save money in the long run by buying locally if theymoffer lifetime tune-ups. Some shops local to me do this and at 75 bucks a pop, the savings add up.
Best of luck and enjoy.
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