best winter cycling jacket?

[Likes2ridefar]

I usually figure this stuff out on my own, but am looking to narrow the focus from people who have used some of the ones I'm interested in.

i need a form-fitting wind-proof road cycling jacket for long training days starting next year. it needs to get me down to temperatures slightly below freezing...say 20F. i have various thickness of thermals I'll stack underneath, and have everything else straight like balaclava, gloves, etc.

-ideally the rear pockets do not zip. small front pockets would be excellent as i find with gloves on accessing food blindly is a challenge. perhaps the properly designed winter jacket makes the rear accessible and I need not worry.

- very breathable to avoid that cold, clammy feeling

-the sleeves are long enough or stretchy enough so they don't pull back when stretched out in the cycling position.

-does not smell like a dead rodent after one use.

suggestions???

[nahtnoj]

An Assos Fugujack meets all of your requirements. I have one. There is none better. There are quite a few cheaper...

If $600+ is too rich for you, Giordana makes a lot of nice stuff. This is worth a look:

http://www.competitivecyclist.com/product-apparel/2011-giordana-formared-carbon-jacket-7917.139.0.html

[spartacus]

Assos Fugu.

[Ozz]

I obvious suggestion is one of the Assos products. I have the AirJack / 851 or whatever it's equivalent was back in 2004. Great product. It may not be warm enough for your needs, but I have worn it in freezing rain and been just fine...toes were cold, but my core was toasty. Very much like the high snap collar. Mine is an XL, so it has room for me to layer underneath for the really cold days...course 'round here in the PNW it doesn't get much colder than freezing.

It has a couple non-zip pockets, as well as ones on the sides that are easily accessible. The Fugujack does not have the rear pockets and the side pockets are zippered.

I the temps you ride in are consistently in the 20's, the the Fugu is probably what you want....but I think the AirJack is more useful over a wider temp range.

[crownjewelwl]

An Assos Fugujack meets all of your requirements. I have one. There is none better. There are quite a few cheaper...

If $600+ is too rich for you, Giordana makes a lot of nice stuff. This is worth a look:

http://www.competitivecyclist.com/product-apparel/2011-giordana-formared-carbon-jacket-7917.139.0.html

Rapha Classic Softshell is a relative bargain at $375!!

[nahtnoj]

^^^^

Rapha is clearly the value leader of the cycling world.

[Likes2ridefar]

I saw the rapha last night. It felt thin and I was worried it would not be warm enough. Not the case, i assume?

Fugu seems to win thus far. Retail is insane though. Hopefully a deal can be found.

[xjoex]

The Showers Pass Softshell Trainer is a great jacket.
http://robonza.blogspot.com/2010/11/review-showers-pass-softshell-trainer.html

-Joe

[crownjewelwl]

I saw the rapha last night. It felt thin and I was worried it would not be warm enough. Not the case, i assume?

Fugu seems to win thus far. Retail is insane though. Hopefully a deal can be found.

I think it is plenty warm. Obviously also depends on what you wear underneath. Merino baselayer + longsleeve sportwool jersey + softshell keeps me pretty toasty.

Rapha will undoubtedly have some kinda holiday promo that will be 20% off and free shipping. If you don't need immediately I would wait.

[Uncle Jam's Army]

Right now I believe you can get the Fugujack for 20 percent off at World Cycling. Still very expensive, though.

[Likes2ridefar]

The Showers Pass Softshell Trainer is a great jacket.
http://robonza.blogspot.com/2010/11/review-showers-pass-softshell-trainer.html

-Joe

Was unaware of this one. Nice price. Thanks for the review.

[spartacus]

The Fugujack does not have the rear pockets and the side pockets are zippered.



The 2011 Fugu has a new pocket arrangement. There is a big one and two side pockets.

[wgp]

What I love about the Fugu is even on the coldest days nothing but a base layer underneath it. You can open the side pockets to vent it.

That said, I also own an 851, and if you put a jersey and baselayer under it it's as warm as the Fugu. But ... a bit bulky!

I don't like lots of layers personally, so I opted to buy a Fugu when it was on sale right before Xmas at CBike. Paid the same as for a new 851 (c. $350) -- so keep youir eyes peeled for that option, given the economy is still down enough for retailers to be moving their stuff at relative bargains.

It's a real luxury to have a choice of both, and it wasn't cheap. On the other hand, if you ride all winter the Fugu can be well worth it.

[Wilkinson4]

foxwear.net

Tell Lou what you want, take your measurements and you will have a custom fitting garment at 1/3rd or more the cost.

mIKE

[Likes2ridefar]

What I love about the Fugu is even on the coldest days nothing but a base layer underneath it. You can open the side pockets to vent it.

That said, I also own an 851, and if you put a jersey and baselayer under it it's as warm as the Fugu. But ... a bit bulky!

I don't like lots of layers personally, so I opted to buy a Fugu when it was on sale at the end of the winter season. And I love having the choice. But it wasn't cheap. On the other hand, if you ride all winter it's well worth it.

Thanks for answering a question I was going to ask. The 851 is far friendlier price-wise but I was worried about the backsides lack of windproofing and perhaps not being as warm.

To be honest, I'd prefer the versatility of the 851 over the fugu, but one drawback is I doubt I'll get to use the 851 when it really shines since I'm forced to wear a team kit most the time. The winter jacket with the team is good, but I find it inadequate for base training 5-6 hour rides in freezing to subfreezing temps.

[flydhest]

My team ordered some Champion stuff. Some of the stuff is so-so, but the winter jacket is actually rather remarkable. I think it is called the "nuclear" jacket or something. A wool base layer and that thing was fine for me for a 2.5 mile commute to work in the mid 30s. With a wool jersey and an actual ride, I'm definitely thinking into the 20s.

[Likes2ridefar]

My team ordered some Champion stuff. Some of the stuff is so-so, but the winter jacket is actually rather remarkable. I think it is called the "nuclear" jacket or something. A wool base layer and that thing was fine for me for a 2.5 mile commute to work in the mid 30s. With a wool jersey and an actual ride, I'm definitely thinking into the 20s.

I have a few of those. the problem with me is the sleeves slide up when stretched out and the neck is very tight when zipped all the way up. that's size medium. the large is too big all around...

[Ozz]

The 2011 Fugu has a new pocket arrangement. There is a big one and two side pockets.
The photos at Competitive Cyclist don't make this apparent, but I will take your word for it.
:beer:

[rpm]

I have one of these, and it's great:

http://www.competitivecyclist.com/product-apparel/2011-craft-elite-winter-jacket-7525.1960.0.html

Craft makes lots of X-C ski clothing. If you want functional winter gear, trust Scandinavians to do it right.

[Bob Loblaw]

The winter jacket with the team is good, but I find it inadequate for base training 5-6 hour rides in freezing to subfreezing temps.

Sorry in advance for the tangent, but I'm curious about what you do for fluids for 5-6 hour rides in sub-freezing temps. Don't your bottles freeze? I find mine are pretty well frozen after an hour or so if it's much below 30 degrees F.

I have a solution that works but that I don't love.

BL

[Likes2ridefar]

I have one of these, and it's great:

http://www.competitivecyclist.com/product-apparel/2011-craft-elite-winter-jacket-7525.1960.0.html

Craft makes lots of X-C ski clothing. If you want functional winter gear, trust Scandinavians to do it right.

That is one I definitely have my eye on. I was hoping to see it last night but the store did not have that particular model. To me, it seems every bit as good as the airblock 851, gore xenon, and rapha softshell for either way less $ or in the gore's case about the same price. The xenon, I liked a lot when trying on yesterday. It has nice, stretchy cuffs inside the sleeves with loop holes for the thumb, lots of reflective spots, and the pockets seemed reasonably accessible.

[Likes2ridefar]

Sorry in advance for the tangent, but I'm curious about what you do for fluids for 5-6 hour rides in sub-freezing temps. Don't your bottles freeze? I find mine are pretty well frozen after an hour or so if it's much below 30 degrees F.

I have a solution that works but that I don't love.

BL

insulated bottles upside down. i've found that is usually ok in anything I can tolerate. A few times i've used a minimalist camelback under my jacket. it's not ideal or as comfortable but it works.

[spartacus]

The photos at Competitive Cyclist don't make this apparent, but I will take your word for it.
:beer:

CC isn't using pictures of the 2011 jacket - if you notice, the collar has vertical lines, but the 2011 has diagonal lines (see Assos website - but even there there is no photo of the back of the jacket). I asked Assos for a photo of the back. This was the reply;

"Sorry but unfortunately I’havent a picture from the back part of the Fugu.
But is a 3pocket Jacket, two side pockets with Zipper and one big in the middle without Zipper.

Hope this helps,

Kindly best regards,

Sabrina"

Sparts. :beer:

[Likes2ridefar]

I'd get the fugu if it cost $300 less :help:

[spartacus]

insulated bottles upside down. i've found that is usually ok in anything I can tolerate. A few times i've used a minimalist camelback under my jacket. it's not ideal or as comfortable but it works.

You might consider an insulated stainless steel bottle. I use an uninsulated Klean Kanteen 27oz stainless steel bottle in the dedicated Klean Kanteen bottle cage. Their insulated bottles are wider and won't fit the cage, but their insulated bottles may fit a different wider cage. I haven't yet tried that, but I do have their insulated 20 oz bottle (for walking in the mountains et.c.).

[Likes2ridefar]

You might consider an insulated stainless steel bottle. I use an uninsulated Klean Kanteen 27oz stainless steel bottle in the dedicated Klean Kanteen bottle cage. Their insulated bottles are wider and won't fit the cage, but their insulated bottles may fit a different wider cage. I haven't yet tried that, but I do have their insulated 20 oz bottle (for walking in the mountains et.c.).

Good suggestion. I've a few stainless coffee mugs that fit. Never even considered using them. they keep my coffee hot after a 40 minute commute in subfreezing temps so surely water would be fine all day.

[spartacus]

I'd get the fugu if it cost $300 less :help:

The 851 is nice, but a cold and fast (faster than you are riding) tailwind is going to chill your back, no doubt. The fit is very nice though. I prefer the look of the new Element Jacket, but I haven't tried it.

[spartacus]

Good suggestion. I've a few stainless coffee mugs that fit. Never even considered using them. they keep my coffee hot after a 40 minute commute in subfreezing temps so surely water would be fine all day.

For warmer weather the 27 oz is great. It has a cap that keeps the drinking nozzle clean of dust or mud and it's so easy to lift out of the cage with the finger loop. I switched to it because I don't want to drink from plastic bottles. The stainless steel is also so easy to keep clean by flash sterilizing with boiling water.

[Uncle Jam's Army]

Picked up a Giordana Forma Red Carbon jacket on bonktown for $100, regularly $350. I like the fit and it looks like it will take anything down to freezing. A bit overkill for the 2 or 3 early mornings when it actually gets down at or near freezing here in Santa Ana, but at least I'll be ready!!

[Ti Designs]

Here's a subject I have a bit too much experience with. I spent last winter doing 4+ hour fixed gear rides 3 times a week as long as the temp was in double digits. It doesn't take long to realize that what they make aren't real winter jackets. It's understandable from a retail point of view, they shoot for the lump in the bell curve, and those aren't the people spending hours on the bike on really cold days. The clothing reps come into my store and show our buyer their stuff, I always invite them to my rides. I've been doing this for about 20 years, thus far no rep who sells winter clothing has ever shown up.

Finding the right base mileage jacket is something that has frustrated me for years. It's not that complicated, anyone who's been out there on a few long, cold rides gets it, but somehow they never make it. Last year for my birthday one of my riders gave me a coupon for a base mileage jacket, which is to say I hand her one of my team jackets and she makes the changes I want. So let's start with the jacket itself, 'cause that's where the frustration starts. My 2002 Harvard team jacket is a Castelli team thermal jacket - best jacket ever. It's windproof, it has a zipper that goes all the way up and extends the collar right up to my chin, three pockets in the back that I can get into if I'm not wearing lobster gloves... I asked the Castelli rep if we could get that jacket in a generic form. Nope. Team order only, three dozen minimum. So, I can't sell this jacket, but I can have changes made to mine. I'm having pockets added on the arms with string zipper pulls. The pockets are just large enough for a couple Sunbelt bars. I'm adding pit zips to vent, a few loops for flashing lights and inside pockets to hold my second pair of glove liners. Small changes, but ones that make a difference. Now if I could just get them to make a pair of thermal tights without the cuff zipper so I can wear winter boots...

[Lionel]

I have the Rapha softshell and the Assos AirJack 851. The Assos breathes much better. I ride often in the morning in the winter where it starts in the high 20s and gets to the low 40s. The temperature range of the 851 is very good, I tend to overheat in the Rapha and get much colder as a result.

[gdw]

"foxwear.net

Tell Lou what you want, take your measurements and you will have a custom fitting garment at 1/3rd or more the cost.

mIKE"

+1
These clothing threads are pretty amusing if you know the costs of the wonder fabrics used in the production of those high dollar jackets. A smart buyer could easily get one manufactured in the the US, tailored to fit perfectly, for less than the imported stuff manufactured in Asia or eastern Europe. Custom jackets for the custom frames crowd....

Ti Designs approach, modifying and tailoring an existing design to meet specific requirements, works well too.

[rice rocket]

What about ski sports related clothing?

I find it hard to believe that Rapha, Castelli, Giordana, etc have anything close to the jackets that Arc'Teryx, 66 North, etc. offer, all of whom have been making high level winter sportswear for decades.

I got my father an Arc'Teryx softshell jacket 2 years ago, and it had tons of ventilation options.

[Lionel]

I have an Arcteryx softshell and hardshell. But have you tried to ride with an Arteryx shell? Not really applicable to cycling .

[rice rocket]

I have not, I purchased it solely on reputation. What's the holdup?

[1centaur]

Now if I could just get them to make a pair of thermal tights without the cuff zipper so I can wear winter boots...

If you're going to modify the jacket...you or a tailor, take out the zipper, replace with elastic (to keep the profile low vs., say, Velcro) of the same length as the zipper and wide enough to flex around your winter socks and giant lower leg muscles. Make sure that's machine-stitched in very well as it will take a lot of stress pulling on and off , which is probably why the manufacturers use zippers.

Finding the right piece of elastic would be far harder than the sewing. Get multiples when you do so you can modify all future tights.

[93legendti]

Here's a subject I have a bit too much experience with. I spent last winter doing 4+ hour fixed gear rides 3 times a week as long as the temp was in double digits. It doesn't take long to realize that what they make aren't real winter jackets. It's understandable from a retail point of view, they shoot for the lump in the bell curve, and those aren't the people spending hours on the bike on really cold days. The clothing reps come into my store and show our buyer their stuff, I always invite them to my rides. I've been doing this for about 20 years, thus far no rep who sells winter clothing has ever shown up.

Finding the right base mileage jacket is something that has frustrated me for years. It's not that complicated, anyone who's been out there on a few long, cold rides gets it, but somehow they never make it. Last year for my birthday one of my riders gave me a coupon for a base mileage jacket, which is to say I hand her one of my team jackets and she makes the changes I want. So let's start with the jacket itself, 'cause that's where the frustration starts. My 2002 Harvard team jacket is a Castelli team thermal jacket - best jacket ever. It's windproof, it has a zipper that goes all the way up and extends the collar right up to my chin, three pockets in the back that I can get into if I'm not wearing lobster gloves... I asked the Castelli rep if we could get that jacket in a generic form. Nope. Team order only, three dozen minimum. So, I can't sell this jacket, but I can have changes made to mine. I'm having pockets added on the arms with string zipper pulls. The pockets are just large enough for a couple Sunbelt bars. I'm adding pit zips to vent, a few loops for flashing lights and inside pockets to hold my second pair of glove liners. Small changes, but ones that make a difference. Now if I could just get them to make a pair of thermal tights without the cuff zipper so I can wear winter boots...

Great post. My winter favorite cycling jersey is my Ibex Full Zip Shak-390g wool. It has a nice chest pocket, but came with no pockets. Ibex makes a cycling Shak, but there are only 2 rear pockets and they are angled, which didn't work for me.

So I took my Shak and a ss cycling jersey to a local seamstress and asked her to sew on 3 rear pockets just like the ss jersey. $20 and now it's perfect. It's not a jacket, but the point is you can make something "non-cycling" work for you.

FWIW, I can't recall where I saw it, but someone claimed a North Face Sentinel was a perfect winter ccyling jacket. Add a few pockets and maybe it is.

[drewski]

I have an older Descente jacket in a really dated 80's Michael Jackson
pattern. Paid $20.00.Black with red stripes. If its especially cold out I wear it
with a Cashmere sweater that I paid $10.00 bucks for.

If I am going into the office for comuting I put on a heavy tweed british wool from Harrod's in london blazer and scarf. Paid $10.00. :beer:

The point is you don't have to be a Rapha or freakin Assos drone.
If you have the money go for it but I am in 40's with 3 mouths to feed.
Assos and Rapha are way out of my price range.

[Likes2ridefar]

while I love my arc'teryx hard and soft shells they do not work well for long rides. Well, they do in a way, but there's just better stuff out there for the job. both are too loose and create cold spots, and with the soft shell I get a freezing belly no matter how tight i cinch the waist cord.

While I'd love to say I could find the 10 or 30 dollar solution, drewski, I'm either not as tough or just don't find the right deals.

To be more specific about why I need a solid performing jacket, I'm going to be spending A LOT of hours on the bike in cold weather. By a lot I mean something like this over an 8 week period: 21 hours the first week, 23 hours the following then 25 hours the 3rd week. then a week off then 25 28 and 31 hours.

all of this is done at a pace that's pretty slow so keeping warm is a challenge and you can't just rely on exertion to keep the blood flowing.

[dimsy]

last winter i used a longsleeve hooded trek jersey and a nike goretex pac-lite jacket. worked great for temps below 30F. over the summer i picked up a giordana forma red jacket from bonktown for a hundred something. looking forward to see how it holds up when things get frigid.

[Steelman]

First off, 20 is well below freezing, that is -6C.

I would suggest you need a full windtex or similar shell, pref. lined. I wouldnt be worried about it being too form fitting at those temps, esp when you may need to layer.

Note that many of the jackets designed for freezing temps have zippered rear pockets, for good reason. Two I own, bought very cheap on eBay are Hincapie Force ($80) and Bergamo Estremo ($60). If you have a budget, buy an off brand closeout on eBay.

[spartacus]

CC isn't using pictures of the 2011 jacket - if you notice, the collar has vertical lines, but the 2011 has diagonal lines (see Assos website - but even there there is no photo of the back of the jacket). I asked Assos for a photo of the back. This was the reply;

"Sorry but unfortunately I havent a picture from the back part of the Fugu.
But is a 3pocket Jacket, two side pockets with Zipper and one big in the middle without Zipper.

Hope this helps,

Kindly best regards,

Sabrina"

Sparts. :beer:

No Assos retailer is showing a picture of the back of the 2011 Fugu (not that I've seen anywhere) because I suspect they still have stock of the previous design to shift. However, most retailers aren't stating that the jacket they are selling has been superseded by the 2011 design, and are cheekily (but that's business) selling it at the 2011 price. Assos appears to be 'helping' this by suspiciously not having a picture of the back of the 2011 Fugu on its website. IMHO the pockets on the 2011 are a better arrangement than the older design.

[Bob Ross]

I the temps you ride in are consistently in the 20's, the the Fugu is probably what you want....but I think the AirJack is more useful over a wider temp range.

+1. I live in New York, ride through the winters in temps ranging from ~18 to 35° F. After going through similar deliberations as the OP I opted for the Assos 851 AirJack...and I must say, I can't possibly imagine wearing something warmer (i.e., a Fugu) in this weather!

With just a lightweight baselayer underneath the 851 keeps me comfy down into the high 20s. With a long sleeve jersey in between the baselayer & 851 I'm good down into the teens. I'm not toasty mind you, but comfortably warm, able to do multi-hour rides without getting chilled or soaked or otherwise uncomfortable.

[93legendti]

FWIW, a couple seasons ago I took Ti Designs' suggestion of wearing 2 baselayers as a fix to avoiding chill because of a wet baselayer. I sweat alot and 2 thin baselayers really keeps me comfortable.

[Bob Loblaw]

insulated bottles upside down. i've found that is usually ok in anything I can tolerate. A few times i've used a minimalist camelback under my jacket. it's not ideal or as comfortable but it works.

Camelback under the jacket is what I do. I've heard a shot of Jack in the bottle keeps them from freezing too. Never tried it, but it's an idea with potential! :beer:

BL

[Bob Loblaw]

Two I own, bought very cheap on eBay are Hincapie Force and Bergamo Estremo. If you have a budget, buy an off brand closeout on eBay.

All my cycling is done on a budget. On the coldest days, I ride with a long sleeved jersey, plain old LL Bean fleece, and a goofy yellow windbreaker. Believe it or not, I'm good down to single digits like that.

BL

[Kirk007]

I think it is hard to have one jacket for "winter" use, at least in the Northwest where its usually 40ish but for awhile will be much colder.

My two favorites are: (1) an old castelli thermal that has a nylon shell and synthetic lining similar to a sleeping bag (obviously much thinner) and is large enough that it traps air space, again like a sleeping bag. It is really warm and seems to also allow enough space for underlayers to wick away moisture. What it lacks is functional pockets, so 3 pocket jersey underneath or a handlebar bag are helpful.

(2) My other favorite is the Rapha softshell which I wear in temps from mid-50s to 30s with various levels of base layers (not many 20 degree days here so can't comment on its use in temps that low). I love the way the Rapha is cut; it has very functional pockets, long sleeves with spandex like cuffs that loop around the thumb to keep draft out, waterproof enough, long in back and roomy enough to accomodate different levels of layering. I also have an 851 which I use the least. At 6'3" and 210 on a good day and a bit north in winter, it is hard to describe any of the Assos tops as anything but form fitting. I find that I get colder in this top, particularly if things aren't venting/wicking very well and the jacket gets damp. I'll trade a lack of aero fit for some trapped airspace every time in winter.

[that guy]

Just want to give another vote for the showers pass softshell trainer.

Very well made and waterproof.

[leooooo]

Anybody have personal experience with Castelli Radiation jacket?
Most of my cycling clothes are Castelli, so would like to stick to the same theme.

I mainly want to know how warm it is. For example, in the 30's will that jacket and a base layer be enough? Thank guys

[happycampyer]

leooooo

The radiation jacket it pretty nice. It's not as warm as a fuguJack imo, but warmer than an 851. The radiation liner and the sleeves are removable, so it's pretty versatile. I got one on bonktown for $200-something a while back. If you like Castelli, you will probably like the radiation jacket. Should be fine in the 30's with a warm baselayer.

[leooooo]

Happycamper, thanks for such a double edged review, lol

Sounds like it fits my bill and the versatility aspect was much more than expected (remove radiation liner).

You then proceed to mention that you purchased on bonktown for 200. I'm unable to pay retail for it now and must wait patiently ;)

[Bob Ross]

I've heard a shot of Jack in the bottle keeps them from freezing too. Never tried it, but it's an idea with potential!


I tried it with vodka. Didn't work: the contents still froze, plus I had to drink vodka-flavored water once I could get it to melt. Yuck!

[xeladragon]

I bought a PI Gavia jacket from REI Outlet a little over a year ago. Paired with a long sleeve base layer and a jersey, I'm comfortable at temps down to mid-30s. I recently bought some non-bulky North Face mid layers from DepartmentofGoods.com at 50% off. I expect to be plenty warm riding through the winter this year, and the amount I spent on the jacket and two mid layers is definitely less than half the price of the Assos Airjack 851. Don't need to be rich to be warm... just gotta find some good deals. :)

[93legendti]

foxwear.net

Tell Lou what you want, take your measurements and you will have a custom fitting garment at 1/3rd or more the cost.

mIKE
Thanks for the tip. I'm talking with Lou about a jacket. Have you tried his socks or hats?

[Wilkinson4]

Thanks for the tip. I'm talking with Lou about a jacket. Have you tried his socks or hats?

No, just his jacket. Try his tights though... I have the Powerstretch 100 from Icebike and they are incredible.

http://www.icebike.org/Clothing/SpecialTights.htm

He makes Powerstretch 200 tights that might be good down to 0F :eek:

mIKE




mIKE

[93legendti]

No, just his jacket. Try his tights though... I have the Powerstretch 100 from Icebike and they are incredible.

http://www.icebike.org/Clothing/SpecialTights.htm

He makes Powerstretch 200 tights that might be good down to 0F :eek:

mIKE

mIKE
I might just have to...

[wgp]

Just some other links to winter jacket discussions (Assos primarily, but other manufacturers too) that may have additional useful info:

http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=59468&highlight=assos+fugujack

http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=41217&highlight=assos+fugujack

http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=78222&highlight=assos+fugujack

[93legendti]

foxwear.net

Tell Lou what you want, take your measurements and you will have a custom fitting garment at 1/3rd or more the cost.

mIKE
Mike,
Thanks for the great tip. Lou and I have exchanged a bunch of emails, talked on the phone and he sent me 4 fabric samples. It's pretty cool to be able to design a winter jacket, choosing material and pocket placement, that costs less than $100. I take it back, it's unprecedented.

[Wilkinson4]

That's great!!! On the pockets, ask him to do a zipper or velcro. On mine I have an interior pocket but stuff falls out so I don't use it. The only thing I would chg.

I wear the jacket, and a helly-hansen prowool long sleeve shirt under and I can go out in 25 degrees for an hour and be fine.

mIKE

[93legendti]

zippers for sure

[Likes2ridefar]

That's great!!! On the pockets, ask him to do a zipper or velcro. On mine I have an interior pocket but stuff falls out so I don't use it. The only thing I would chg.

I wear the jacket, and a helly-hansen prowool long sleeve shirt under and I can go out in 25 degrees for an hour and be fine.

mIKE

What about for another 5 hours on top of that one hour?

[protege55]

Castelli Radiation - removable sleeves, removable "radiation" liner, this thing can go from a windproof vest on "warmer" days all the way down to cold (20F is about as low as I'm willing to ride, so that's the bottom for me and testing). I wear it with a base layer only and the liner/jacket without issue at those temps. It also has a great built in hood that you can use rather than a beanie if you want total coverage. Side zips for venting if you need it.

Only issue I would say is that if you remove the arms during a ride to make it a vest, the fabric thickness makes it a bit bulky to put in the rear pockets, but that shouldn't really be an issue here...

Just my 2 cents...a great great jacket that fits well and has a ton of variation to get you through the winter no matter the weather.

[Likes2ridefar]

I've read about the radiation jacket by Castelli.

My only concern with it is I have another castelli jacket with removable sleeves and I find the sleeves a touch too short in size Large but it fits great everywhere else.

I really like the extended fleece collar it has which I believe is the same on the Radiation.

The jacket also puffs out a bit where the sleeves are like I've shoulder pads and this is probably why the sleeves ride up a bit.

I'm not sure I can find that one to try on anywhere locally.

[Wilkinson4]

What about for another 5 hours on top of that one hour?

The jacket would be great but I am in hibernation mode so an hour is all I can muster;)

mIKE

[protege55]

I'm a M/L in cycling jersey land (race fit) and wear an XL radiation jacket for the sleeve length (monkey arms) - it really fits great in my opinion - pretty trim through the body with a layer on underneath, so no place for flopping around, and the sleeves are long enough for me (especially with winter gloves on)...

Only advice would be, if you were really interested, buy one from a reputable online dealer if you can't find one locally, try it on, and if it didn't fit, you can always send it back (though you'd be out the cabbage on shipping) - this plan would work well with a domestic site (although you can sometimes find great deals through wiggle or probikekit...sometimes...)

just a thought.

[leooooo]

I'm not sure I can find that one to try on anywhere locally.

I see your location is Manhattan.
Assuming you're like the rest of NYC cyclists, you'll venture out to 9W on the weekends. Follow that and you'll bump into Piermont cycles who have it in stock (prominently displayed, may I add).

[Likes2ridefar]

I see your location is Manhattan.
Assuming you're like the rest of NYC cyclists, you'll venture out to 9W on the weekends. Follow that and you'll bump into Piermont cycles who have it in stock (prominently displayed, may I add).

Great, thanks for the tip I'll be near there this Sunday.

[HenryA]

All my cycling is done on a budget. On the coldest days, I ride with a long sleeved jersey, plain old LL Bean fleece, and a goofy yellow windbreaker. Believe it or not, I'm good down to single digits like that.

BL

I think this is the best answer (it is what I do almost exactly).
What you get from a goofy yellow windbreaker is all around breathing, all around protection and some visibility for gray dull winter days. You can buy a cycling specific one for not too much money. Mine is Pearl Izumi but any that is comfortable will be fine. Treated fabric is good too if you spend a little more. Don't get anything that's too heavy or you will loose the benefit of layering underneath. The outer shell is just that - a shell. Close fitting layers underneath is what keeps you warm. And it works -way- better if the moisture from sweating can transfer from your skin outwards and away from you.

The only flaw is what happens if it rains --- and the answer to that is --- carry a light plastic rain jacket with you. Our winters here are slobbery and sleety more than cold. Getting wet is a killer (pun intended).

Generally when it is near freezing I wear 2 long underwear shirts, a jersey and the jacket. If its colder I add one more base layer. A thin balaclava under my helmet that completely covers my neck and most of my face is very important. The big advantage to all this is that as the temperature changes I can remove a layer or add one back on.

I have a harder time with my hands and feet than my core. I have some liners with ultra thin windproof shells that work great to about freezing. Below that I use some very loose leather gloves over thicker liners.

If its really cold, its thin wool cycling socks inside and old thick wool socks on top of the shoes and windcovers on top of that. Cut holes in the old socks for the cleats.

I don't have winter shoes but I would if I lived up north. Get some that are loose enough that you can wear thicker socks. Give up on the idea of super stiff and super snug or live with cold feet all winter.

Still my hands and feet go first and I don't think I'd do 5 hours when its below freezing, 'cause its not fun. That's what trainers are for.

[Likes2ridefar]

thanks for the advice. I've never run across a cheap shell that blocks the wind sufficiently while still being able to transfer moisture away from the body. I certainly haven't tried anywhere near everything on the market though.

5 hours on the trainer sounds like misery. I've never made it more than 2 hours. I wish I had options here but I can't take two months off work for warm weather base training and the season is important and starts early this year with my first big race mid March and it's a doozy, a UCI 180km race against a bunch of pros.

Right now I'm leaning towards the Showerspass training shell or the cheap custom job.

[veloduffer]

Right now I'm leaning towards the Showerspass training shell or the cheap custom job.

Get a rain jacket with zip vents. The Showers Pass jackets are really good and make for an excellent winter shell. Besides, you can use them for spring and fall too with just a short sleeve jersey. A couple of good layers underneath and you'll be warm on the coldest of days. This is a more flexible system and quite a bit cheaper. Buying a dedicated winter jacket is nice, but they are expensive and limited in their use (2-3 months?). While I can afford an Assos or Castelli, I have a difficult time reconciling an expenditure for such a short time period atmo.

As others have mentioned, feet and hands are often tougher to keep warm, as those areas generate less body heat when you're exercising.

Start off with a Showers Pass and see how it goes. You can always buy an Assos or Castelli later on if you think you need it. It's not like they'll be flying out of the store and perhaps they might be on sale.

[Likes2ridefar]

Get a rain jacket with zip vents. The Showers Pass jackets are really good and make for an excellent winter shell. Besides, you can use them for spring and fall too with just a short sleeve jersey. A couple of good layers underneath and you'll be warm on the coldest of days. This is a more flexible system and quite a bit cheaper. Buying a dedicated winter jacket is nice, but they are expensive and limited in their use (2-3 months?). While I can afford an Assos or Castelli, I have a difficult time reconciling an expenditure for such a short time period atmo.

As others have mentioned, feet and hands are often tougher to keep warm, as those areas generate less body heat when you're exercising.

Start off with a Showers Pass and see how it goes. You can always buy an Assos or Castelli later on if you think you need it. It's not like they'll be flying out of the store and perhaps they might be on sale.

For feet I wear Shimano's winter shoes which have a gore-tex liner and above the ankle cut. If it's super cold I put a thick bootie over it. I've never had problems with cold feet with this setup.

For hands I've quite a few pairs of gloves to pick from. My coldest weather gloves are very thick neoprene fleece lined gloves with long wrist cuffs called glacier gloves premium. They are basically dry suit scuba gloves. totally waterproof and once I build up some heat inside my hands stay warm all day no matter the temperature. I usually wear a wool liner inside as well. they don't breathe at all and thus get very wet inside. they are a hassle to dry. worth it though, i've never had anything that works so well.

[Likes2ridefar]

I called Showers pass earlier today and had a great conversation with them(him) It was refreshing to dial the number and have it picked up after a few rings by somebody who was very knowledgeable and clearly passionate about their products.

We talked about what I needed, and he thinks the Elite 2.0 is the best choice but he seemed to think I'd love it and eventually get the trainer soft shell on down the road.

I have to admit he persuaded me quite well and I think the elite 2.0 will probably be what I choose.

[rnhood]

I have the soft shell trainer and, if I had to do it again I would go with the Elite Pro. Put a simple mid-weight baselayer underneath and you're good to 30 degrees - maybe less. If things heat up then unzip. The Elite Pro is light enough that you can take it off if and stick it in your jersey pocket. I don't like the Elite 2.0 because the fit doesn't seem just right to me (I've tried them) and, its just a little on the heavy side. Now if you want rain protection for 2 or 3 hours, or you need commuter gear, then I would get the 2.0. For general riding though, the Elite Pro with a good thermal baselayer is the ticket.

[93legendti]

http://www.polartecstore.com/product-category.asp?category=men

[54ny77]

the best winter jacket by far is the one that hangs in a closet while you ride in short sleeves in hawaii. :banana:

[tuxbailey]

I wear the Gore Bike Wear Phantom II jacket. I add a base layer and a wool jersey and I am good in the 30's. I figure if it gets colder than I can add another base layer.

I think that is sufficient in the Metro DC area.

[ahumblecycler]

The one that fits you properly, makes you feel warm and confident in the cold, and actually motivates you to ride.

Many replies, many suggestions (all good) ... by from a no-question return policy store and get going :D

[93legendti]

... by from a no-question return policy store and get going :D
hell yeah!

[gdw]

This won't help you this year but the future is looking good.
http://www.sportsonesource.com/news/article_home.asp?Prod=1&section=8&id=35793
eVent is the best current waterproof breathable fabric for outdoor sports applications. This should expand their market presence and bring prices down next year.

[jlwdm]

This won't help you this year but the future is looking good.
http://www.sportsonesource.com/news/article_home.asp?Prod=1&section=8&id=35793
eVent is the best current waterproof breathable fabric for outdoor sports applications. This should expand their market presence and bring prices down next year.


Showers Pass and Hincapie use event now - probably others.

Jeff

[EDS]

I am also in NYC. My team uses hincapie garb and I can't imagine needing anything warmer than the polar wintex jackets we have. When the wind is whipping in off the river riding on Piermont Road in 20 degree temps my core is the last thing I am worried about getting cold.
If I were to get something else it would be the Capo limited edition jacket.

[gdw]

"Showers Pass and Hincapie use event now - probably others."

That's one of the reasons why Showers Pass jackets are so good.

Companies who use eVent in their current offerings aren't shy in telling you that they have it. Companies who haven't licensed it use one of the more generic fabrics and give it a fancy name. Next year we'll see lots of companies announcing that their proprietary wonder fabric is manufactured with eVent technolgy for superior performance.

"The change puts the customer’s label on the outside with proven eVent technology on the inside to create an innovative partnership."

[Likes2ridefar]

i had a tent with event fabric and it was the worst tent I've ever used. Not even close to waterproof, it ruined a backpacking trip in Colorado.

[Likes2ridefar]

My experience with waterproof fabrics is less than stellar thus far which is one of the reasons I stated I wanted windproof but didn't mention waterproof. This is my major reservation re: the showerspass jackets, but the rep I talked to seems to think I won't be disappointed.

I've used gore-tex, xcr, pac-lite, event, and various no-name versions.

I've found the waterproof fabrics take way more maintenance than I prefer to give, and after a few months are never the same. the DWR wears off so then the outer fabric absorbs water and the already reduced breathing becomes even worse.

[gdw]

Unfortunately your experience was shared by many. Event should never have been used for tents as the industry discovered but it's the best breathable waterproof fabric for clothing currently available.

I'd go with the custom option but Showers Pass has great customer service if you choose their jacket and it doesn't work out.

[Uncle Jam's Army]

Event is a great material for tents. The Integral Designs MK1 with Event is probably the best four seasons tent ever made. The problem is when GE bought the rights to the material, it stopped selling it to tent makers around 2004, or so, due to the flammability of the material (mountaineers are notorious for cooking inside the tent, risk be damned, simply because of the weather conditions outside the tent). Being risk averse, GE didn't want any liability from that kind of use.

I have Event on a Feathered Friends down jacket & sleeping bag, and even as a liner on a set of mountaineering boots. It is the best of the waterproof laminates in terms of breathability, though not perfect. I sweat so much that I can overwhelm the breathability/wicking of any garment. Pit zips are key, for me.

[gdw]

We're going a bit off topic.
The breathable single wall tent debate is interesting. Some folks love them while others have had similar experiences to Like2ridefar. My statement about eVents use in tents was too strong.

[Likes2ridefar]

Mine was a 3 season big agnes. I had forgotten about the flamable warning, but my tent stressed it all over the place.

it was really expensive, nearly $500, very lightweight, and great for ultra-light backpacking because it packed down to nothing.

Mine was hot in the summer and when the temperature dipped lots of condensation built up on the fabric and it came right through to the inside of the tent. In rain it just leaked.

It had vents to combat the condensation but they didn't seem to help much.

We ended up getting an exchange after that miserable 2 weeks in CO for their even lighter, but conventional tent with the the typical fly covering a mostly mesh body.

[jchasse]

I have one of these, and it's great:

http://www.competitivecyclist.com/product-apparel/2011-craft-elite-winter-jacket-7525.1960.0.html

Craft makes lots of X-C ski clothing. If you want functional winter gear, trust Scandinavians to do it right.

This seemed almost ideal to me. EXCEPT they only make the damn thing in black. And in winter, when the light gets pretty sketchy, I'm not wearing a black outer layer, even with lights.

That jacket's got to be warm enough for almost any riding though, 'cause i have an older Craft Windstopper Thermal jacket, which Craft told me isn't as warm as the Elite, and I easily wear it down to freezing. And with my Showers Pass shell over it, my core doesnt get cold down to single digits.

[Waldo]

I got my Showers Pass Softshell yesterday and took it out for a two hour ride on today's windy and foggy morning with temps in low 40s. I only had a long-sleeve thin merino base layer under the jacket. I was neither too warm nor too cold -- just right. My legs felt colder when I started the ride, which never happens. Usually, I'm colder on top. I flatted about 1:20 into the ride and was not cold while repairing the flat, while my friend who was otherwise dressed complained about the cold.

This jacket has two normal jersey-style pockets on the back; one zippered pocket for a key, money, or ID; one zippered pocket on left chest; zippered vents under arms and on upper back, a draw cord at the bottom, zippers on the cuffs to make them roomier if necessary. I like this jacket more than any other jacket I've owned in the 24 years I've been riding seriously. It's supposed to be waterproof and has taped seams. I don't know about that yet, but will find out this weekend, as we're expecting rain in the Bay Area for at least the next four days.

I have a Rapha Softshell, which I deem inferior. Rapha feels too warm, has no vents, and fits worse (much smaller in same size--Medium) than the Showers Pass Softshell. I find myself much sweatier after a ride in the Rapha jacket than I was after this morning's ride in the SP jacket.

Here, http://www.adventurecycling.org/store/index.cfm/product/512/showers-pass-softshell-trainer-jacket.cfm the SP Softshell is available for $160 in yellow in S, M, and XL and for $200 in all sizes in yellow or black from many places, including directly from Showers Pass.

[Likes2ridefar]

Thanks for the feedback and link, Vlad.

[jlwdm]

I got my Showers Pass Softshell yesterday .... It's supposed to be waterproof and has taped seams. I don't know about that yet, but will find out this weekend, as we're expecting rain in the Bay Area for at least the next four days....


Shower's Pass rates in down one level from the top in waterproofness and down two levels for breathability.

Jeff

[rnhood]

Shower's Pass rates in down one level from the top in waterproofness and down two levels for breathability.

Jeff

Not surprising, as I've had mine for a year now and can attest to its rather poor breathability. I don't get much relief at all until the main front zipper comes down. The side vents have little to no effect. The neck closure doesn't work well either. The zipper cuffs are nice, though I think velcro works just as well.

For $35 you can get a Champion C9 jacket at Target that does about everything the SS Trainer does. Its somewhat of a bargain actually. For the high end approach, I still think the Double Century or Elite Pro with a zip mock mid or baselayer is the ticket. This offers a more flexible approach to cold or wet weather riding, including better breathability and ease of packing in the back of the jersey.

[krhea]

KRhea checking in from a very wet Portland Oregon...check our weather report from the past 2 days and the forecast through the weekend and you'll get a taste of what we NW cyclists are dealing with right now. Today was our 3rd ride this week in some serious rain and wind.

Anyway, I've tried a lot of jackets and different systems for our fall/winter rains and have found one jacket that does a really good job of both protecting me as well as allowing my steam to vent. It's the Endura Convert. It's rated as waterproof, has zip off sleeves but the vent options are what works best for me. I also like the price, $129 retail and as low as $80 at some online retailers. It's available in black, red and I think bright yellow with all colors having a decent amount of reflective. Adjustable bottom hem and cuffs, high collar, good cut with just enough fabric to allow a long sleeve baselayer or jersey underneath.
I have an extremely high "thermometer" so I dress pretty lightly in all seasons and this jacket doesn't seem to get "overwhelmed" with my heat build-up even on extended climbs.
For rain that is not to serious I wear a pair of Gore Windstopper arm warmers, a long sleeve base layer and a windproof long sleeve jersey or just a vest. Most all 'windproof" clothing items offer a bit of light rain protection, it's just the nature of the fabric.


KRhea

[Lionel]

I have a Rapha Softshell, which I deem inferior. Rapha feels too warm, has no vents, and fits worse (much smaller in same size--Medium) than the Showers Pass Softshell. I find myself much sweatier after a ride in the Rapha jacket than I was after this morning's ride in the SP jacket.

Same experience as you on the Rapha softshell. temperature range is poor and so is breathability. My Castelli softshell is better. My Assos Airjack is much better.

[93legendti]

No, just his jacket. Try his tights though... I have the Powerstretch 100 from Icebike and they are incredible.

http://www.icebike.org/Clothing/SpecialTights.htm

He makes Powerstretch 200 tights that might be good down to 0F :eek:

mIKE

mIKE
I did...I bought the Powerstretch tights in 300 weight. No zippers, comfy, light and very warm. $44 plus shipping.
Thanks again for the tip.

[Wilkinson4]

Sweet, I just received my package for 250 wt. I have been wearing the 100 wt in sub 20 degree temps for about an hour so the 250 wt should be nice a comfy sub-20 for as long as I want:) Lou is tops.

mIKE

[whforrest]

Assos climajet jacket (shell and/or rain jacket)

Assos element zero vest

Assos element one jacket (older version)

Assos short sleeve base layer

shorts, leg warmers, booties with wool socks.

generally this set up has allowed me to ride comfortably from the low 30's and up.

If I were on the east coast I would replace the short sleeve base with the heavy winter long sleeve base.

you can stick with this set up from fall to spring depending on changing temps.

regarding assos pricing, it took me a few years to purchase items i wanted and rarely paid full retail for items. this stuff lasts, feels and look good, but most importantly it works.

i would rather have 1 pair of assos bib shorts than 3 pairs of pearl izumi.

[Ti Designs]

i would rather have 1 pair of assos bib shorts than 3 pairs of pearl izumi.

While Assos is really nice stuff, there's a problem with that. My theory (which is based on riding a lot) is that you find the shorts you can live with and buy at least half a dozen of them. Why? let's say you have three pairs of shorts, one you love, one you hate and one is somewhere between those two points. You're going to wear out the ones you love, any then half the time you're in shorts you hate. I can adapt to damn near anything, so pearl izumi shorts feel about right now, which is good 'cause I have a bunch of them.

[jlwdm]

He said he would rather have one pair of Assos than three pair of PI. He did not say that is what he would do.

I just buy the ones I love then it is easy. A mix of Assos (the most), Rapha, Capo and Castelli. Life is too short to ride in crummy bib shorts.

Jeff

[whforrest]

Just for clarification. For many years i would scan the online cycling catalogs and scoff at pricing of the assos clothing. Several years later I won an assos jersey on eBay.........when I tried it on I was pretty blown away, next purchased some bibs, over time became hooked.

At the time I wore mostly pearl izumi.........which I am still very fond of....great stuff, even descente that I wore in the 80's, early 90's.

Remember 5 years ago assos was pretty far ahead of most competitors.......i think that gap has shrank though.....

I occasionally scan the rapha website drooling, but to switch everything would cost too much time and money. just like when I ride my serotta I still love checking out Moots Ti.

i plan on wearing out my assos clothing.

I also ride my teams voler team kit, it's nice stuff, don't get me wrong, but I prefer assos.

I'm fairly passionate about the assos brand. I appreciate the fact that they do not introduce something unless there is an honest improvement.

I went on a low 30's ride recently, uphill, downhill, it didn't matter, the way the material keeps you warm and dry is pretty amazing.

forget all the great assos marketing, the stuff works...............I'm pretty loyal to my cycling brands,,,,,,,assos, serotta, campy.............it takes many things for me to change........guess im getting older.

happy cycling!

[Bob Ross]

i would rather have 1 pair of assos bib shorts than 3 pairs of pearl izumi.


fwiw, I have 1 pair of assos bib shorts and 3 pairs of Pearl Izumi (non-bib) shorts.

To be honest, for anything under 80 miles -- especially if it's summer time -- I'd rather wear the PI's. The PI's provide better "leg feel", seem more durable (that's pure conjecture, admittedly), and, most importantly, they breathe much better than the Assos. I haven't tried Assos non-bib shorts, so I don't know if it's a function of the materials they use, or just the fact that they're bibs...but those Assos are sweat factories.

On the other hand, for anything over 80 miles, or for cooler temperatures (especially if I'm combining them w/ knee- or leg-warmers), the Assos wins. And the Assos chamois is to die for.

[93legendti]

Sweet, I just received my package for 250 wt. I have been wearing the 100 wt in sub 20 degree temps for about an hour so the 250 wt should be nice a comfy sub-20 for as long as I want:) Lou is tops.

mIKE
You could probably wear them together for even more warmth.

I bought a 2nd pair of 300wt tights to double up for single digit temp rides.

Not a zipper on them, very light and they stretch like crazy. I can fit the ankle openings over my Sidi winter riding shoes, even after I put on my PI booties.

[xjoex]

For the lower half, I am really happy with the Showers Pass Elite Roadie Pants
http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h85/boulderjoe/riding/100_3611.jpg

I have used them many times in the single digits with just a pair of summer PI shorts underneath.

A bit more of a review here: http://robonza.blogspot.com/2009/02/review-showers-pass-elite-roadie-pants.html .

And a little something I like, they have lasted at least 3 years of mountain biking, commuting, and snowshoeing.

-Joe

[93legendti]

My team ordered some Champion stuff. Some of the stuff is so-so, but the winter jacket is actually rather remarkable. I think it is called the "nuclear" jacket or something. A wool base layer and that thing was fine for me for a 2.5 mile commute to work in the mid 30s. With a wool jersey and an actual ride, I'm definitely thinking into the 20s.

I was at Target this a.m. and saw Champion's hooded C9 Softshell on sale for $30-thought I'd give it a try. For the price, it will at least be a nice backup jacket for winter cycling.

[christian]

I think Flyd was actually referring to Champion Systems (champ-sys.com), but I have to say that for workout gear I have found the Target C9 stuff to be fantastic!

[93legendti]

I think Flyd was actually referring to Champion Systems (champ-sys.com), but I have to say that for workout gear I have found the Target C9 stuff to be fantastic!
oops! :)


yup, the C9 seems like a great deal...

[jr59]

You guys are really missing the boat here.

Please do yourselves a favor and call Lou

@ foxwear! You really need to look at his stuff, it's GREAT and cheap!