Protein in Sports drink study

[stephenmarklay]

I have been using a sports drink with protein and then just adding protein to a a carb drink based on the information I had.

Guess that is not worth much.

http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/11/10/do-protein-sports-drinks-improve-performance/?src=twt&twt=nytimeshealth

I guess that will help me get to my race weight. ;)

[bigreen505]

Perhaps, but on my highly unscientific test of one (me) alternating between Cytomax and Accelerade in several sports over the course of a year, Accelerade was the definite winner for me. I could go harder, longer with less fatigue. I took that to mean that a little protein in a sports drink was good for me, but it could have been just that Accelerade fits my body's needs better than Cytomax.

There was no way to quantify the results, so purely qualitatively I can say that, despite the awful taste, I felt better with the Accelerade. As a bonus, it freezes at a much lower temperature than Cytomax.

[onekgguy]

Also, I think some of the Accelerade drinks have caffeine whereas I don't think Cytomax does. It took me a little while to get used to the taste of Accelerade but now that I am I prefer it to Cytomax and it's become my drink for out on the road.

Kevin g

[Louis]

I haven't noticed any difference as far as my personal response goes for Accelerade vs. Cytomax, and Accelerade leaves behind that incredibly annoying scum inside the bottle, so I've decided to stick to Cytomax.

[dekindy]

Hammer Nutrition is convinced that protein (if I remember correctly 15% content) is the most effective.

Of course a recent study said that if you have water, sugar, and salt you can go far. One thing is for certain, this is cheaper.

[stephenmarklay]

The whole thing just drives me crazy. Not just the protein in sports drinks but just about any topic on nutrition or for that matter just about every study you read can and likely will get refuted at some later date.

For instance the Twinkie diet in another thread. While the weight loss is pretty obvious the lipid profiles are not. So does it really matter what you eat? Sounds like a low cal diet would solve just about all the problems.

What about vitamins or fish oil or anitoxidents or whatever the next thing is.
Leaves me scratching my head.

Is there anything we CAN bank on?

Even in cycling. How do you train for best performance? Lift weights for strength? Do high intensity intervals? Long endurance rides? Train 5 days 6 days 3 days? Give me a break.

I am going to just do whatever I want. At least I will be happy :)

[Bob Loblaw]

The protein itself may or may not have a direct benefit during exercise, but the combination might be better than carbs alone, especially if you're going for a long ride.

Other studies have shown that you can alter the glycemic index of a carbohydrate solution by adding fat or protein. IOW, by adding protein to the carb drink, you're increasing the glycemic index which stabilizes the rate at which your body metabolizes it. It reduces the peaks and valleys of blood sugar level that can accompany drinking a carb drink consisting strictly of carbs.

That might or might not matter over a short ride, but on a long ride it could mean less fatigue and less muscle damage.

That's my theory, anyway, based on what I've read and observed in my own training history.

BL

[stephenmarklay]

by adding protein to the carb drink, you're increasing the glycemic index


I think you meant decreasing... But I get the point. You know I am just going to forgo the studies and just eat on the bike. Dried fruit is easy to carry and nut are too or maybe a good granola bar. Lots of water.

I am just going to train hard, train often and eat when I am hungry.

My wife has told me over the last 20 years -everything in moderation (pretty much across the board) and she may just be right.

We get so caught up in all of the little variables that are ultimately swamped buy the real factors. Eat healthy, get plenty of water, sleep, train hard with variety of intensities, train long and rest a lot. Thats my plan.

[RPS]

In my case consuming the tested “WHEY” (i.e. – milk) protein drink would be decidedly detrimental.

Almost immediately it causes me congestion and difficulty breathing. By the day after eating whey my ears feel plugged up and I have difficulty hearing – like I’m in an echo chamber. Many times it has lead to inner ear infections which have become more difficult to treat with antibiotics. As I write this I’m going through it again because I accidentally consumed whey in leftover Halloween candy.

About ten years ago a friend and I went to the Texas Hill Country for a week of cycling and every day after riding a century he made a recovery shake with -- unbeknownst to me -- whey protein powder. By the time I figured out what was happening it was too late to recover.

Whether it helps those who are not allergic to whey is a different issue; but I’m certain that if you are one of the millions who don’t tolerate whey effectively it will definitely hurt your cycling big time.

[dekindy]

It is my understanding that Whey protein is used for recovery only. If I remember correctly from the Hammer Nutrition website Whey protein before or during exercise is detrimental because it causes a buildup of ammonia. Best protein for recovery though.

In my case consuming the tested “WHEY” (i.e. – milk) protein drink would be decidedly detrimental.

Almost immediately it causes me congestion and difficulty breathing. By the day after eating whey my ears feel plugged up and I have difficulty hearing – like I’m in an echo chamber. Many times it has lead to inner ear infections which have become more difficult to treat with antibiotics. As I write this I’m going through it again because I accidentally consumed whey in leftover Halloween candy.

About ten years ago a friend and I went to the Texas Hill Country for a week of cycling and every day after riding a century he made a recovery shake with -- unbeknownst to me -- whey protein powder. By the time I figured out what was happening it was too late to recover.

Whether it helps those who are not allergic to whey is a different issue; but I’m certain that if you are one of the millions who don’t tolerate whey effectively it will definitely hurt your cycling big time.

[Ralph]

I normally eat all bran with soy milk, whole wheat toast and jelly, and orange juce (sugar water) for breakfast before I ride every day. If I add a boiled egg, and maybe a strip of bacon, I can ride a lot longer before I need to eat (usually whole wheat fig bars with water....or power bar or Cliff bar). How does that fit in with your ideas? Just carbs don't seem to get it done.

[RPS]

It is my understanding that Whey protein is used for recovery only. If I remember correctly from the Hammer Nutrition website Whey protein before or during exercise is detrimental because it causes a buildup of ammonia. Best protein for recovery though.
dekindy, that's not at all what I was referring to.

For the millions who are allergic to milk protein (not to be confused with lactose intolerance), whey can cause reactions with serious symptoms. It doesn’t matter whether it’s before, during, or after exercise. It doesn’t even matter if you don’t exercise at all. And it doesn’t take much of it. Sharing a small order of McDonalds’ French fries with my wife will affect me considerably (I no longer do it). Who the hell would think they’d put milk products in French fries? Or hot dogs? Or veggie burgers?

My point is simply that life is not lived in black and white -- what helps one person may be detrimental to another. If they studied 100 cyclists and found that whey protein helped 70, didn’t affect 20, and hurt 10 then they may “statistically” conclude that protein is good for cycling because it improved TT times, right? And that’s great unless you happen to be one of the 10 who was hurt by it. (numbers are for illustration only)

Its funny people want bikes that fit and when a standard doesn’t fit them like it does the majority of the population they don’t think twice about getting a custom. Likewise for many the "standard" diet based on research that works well for the average population doesn’t work at all. I do much better eating crap like Pop Tarts or Oreo Cookies during a ride than any form of “health” nutrition that includes whey. Exercise has nothing to do with it; I just react poorly to whey.

[dekindy]

You specified that you were allergic to Whey protein, so that is what I replied to. The OP was talking about exercise and protein. That was what I was speaking to; the fact taht "Whey" type protein would not be recommended before or during exercise. I am sorry that you have an allergy but why the lecture on allergies when the topic is protein and whether it helps athletic performance?

As far as protein and exercise, assuming you can process it normally, it should have the same effect on everybody.

dekindy, that's not at all what I was referring to.

For the millions who are allergic to milk protein (not to be confused with lactose intolerance), whey can cause reactions with serious symptoms. It doesn’t matter whether it’s before, during, or after exercise. It doesn’t even matter if you don’t exercise at all. And it doesn’t take much of it. Sharing a small order of McDonalds’ French fries with my wife will affect me considerably (I no longer do it). Who the hell would think they’d put milk products in French fries? Or hot dogs? Or veggie burgers?

My point is simply that life is not lived in black and white -- what helps one person may be detrimental to another. If they studied 100 cyclists and found that whey protein helped 70, didn’t affect 20, and hurt 10 then they may “statistically” conclude that protein is good for cycling because it improved TT times, right? And that’s great unless you happen to be one of the 10 who was hurt by it. (numbers are for illustration only)

Its funny people want bikes that fit and when a standard doesn’t fit them like it does the majority of the population they don’t think twice about getting a custom. Likewise for many the "standard" diet based on research that works well for the average population doesn’t work at all. I do much better eating crap like Pop Tarts or Oreo Cookies during a ride than any form of “health” nutrition that includes whey. Exercise has nothing to do with it; I just react poorly to whey.

[RPS]

As far as protein and exercise, assuming you can process it normally, it should have the same effect on everybody.
That’s the part I don’t get – which was the basis of the point I was trying to make (albeit poorly).

I’m sorry I used myself as an example to make a point (rarely a good idea to make things personal), and even more so that it came across as a lecture which wasn’t my intent at all. I’m just highly skeptical of any study done to “statistically” demonstrate an item is good or safe based on averages when individuals are so far from average.

Granted there are a lot of things we all need the same, but there are a lot of things that affect us differently too.

[benb]

I've gone the other way, I don't even want to drink my calories anymore biking.

I started using the NUUN tablets which are just electrolytes and then I eat food.

I feel WAY better. The sugars and other crap in most of the drinks just mess me up.. mostly digestion issues, burping, etc. . I also get the impression I just need higher amounts of electrolytes, I can really feel the difference in terms of what sits in my stomach and what absorps quickly.

I hate when they put caffeine and other odd stuff (herbs) in these drinks as well.

[stephenmarklay]

I a few years ago I was doing this. I liked it pretty well. lately I have been just drinking rice drink. That was what I was adding protein too. I don't like the candy tasting drinks. The rice drink is easier to tolerate. If I add a teaspoon of sugar it is about sweet enough. Anymore though I am not going to take in calories on the bike unless I am riding more than 2 hours or doing some endurance riding after hard intervals.

I've gone the other way, I don't even want to drink my calories anymore biking.

I started using the NUUN tablets which are just electrolytes and then I eat food.

I feel WAY better. The sugars and other crap in most of the drinks just mess me up.. mostly digestion issues, burping, etc. . I also get the impression I just need higher amounts of electrolytes, I can really feel the difference in terms of what sits in my stomach and what absorps quickly.

I hate when they put caffeine and other odd stuff (herbs) in these drinks as well.

[Karin Kirk]

The whole thing just drives me crazy. Not just the protein in sports drinks but just about any topic on nutrition or for that matter just about every study you read can and likely will get refuted at some later date.

[snip]

Is there anything we CAN bank on?

This is a common complaint with science in general. I mean, can't you scientists just figure out exactly how the human metabolism works already? ;)

We are uncomfortable with uncertainty, but science research is all about dwelling in the realm of what is not well understood. That part can't change, but perhaps the public reporting of scientific research results can be better at expressing uncertainly and not extrapolating one particular study to all populations (this is where we get into a lot of trouble).

But also, I think the public could do better with understanding a bit more about the scientific process. Getting students comfortable with uncertainty is a common topic in science courses these days. The world is very complex; we understand a whole lot about it. But of course there will always areas that are cloudy, so we need to be equipped to deal with information that is not yet resolute.

And yes, everything in moderation and doing sensible things that work for you and make you happy are excellent tactics! :)

[sixfootbrit]

Just my .02¢, I am an ultra low carb fan, more paleo than Atkins. I probably eat less than 20g (yes, grams) of carb a day. It took a while to adjust to this, but in the process I went from 218lbs to 173. Needless to say, this feels great on the bike, I didn't even need to buy lighter components! On my current rides, usually 18-27 miles of technical trail riding, I drink water and have a protein shake (whey mixed with heavy whipping cream, yum) for recovery. This dietary plan obviously goes against the current paradigm, and it works superbly. If you are interested, Google Dr. Eades, paleo diet etc. Fat is the best endurance fuel, and in order to efficiently metabolize it, you have to cut the carbs and therefore modify your metabolic pathways.

[stephenmarklay]

I read the paleo book and the second one written with Friel. I think the basis of it weak.

Having said that if it works for you and you can maintain a healthier bodyweight in the long term than it is a positive.

As far as the endurance goes almost everything I have read says that this type of diet will comprise your performance with shorter higher intensity efforts. I think that you are correct from what I have seen that your body will get better at burning fats and if you were an ultra marathon athlete for instance, you may be just as well off. For the short high intensity efforts I think your would do better with carbs.

This does not fit within my wife's infinite wisdom and philosophy either; everything in moderation.

BTW I actually adopted some of what I read in second Paleo book. That is I eat a lot of fruits and vegetables. They are the mainstay of of my diet. I just don't eat much meat nor avoid all the foods they frown on.

I do tend to eat more carbs before and after my workouts and less at other times of day.

Just my .02¢, I am an ultra low carb fan, more paleo than Atkins. I probably eat less than 20g (yes, grams) of carb a day. It took a while to adjust to this, but in the process I went from 218lbs to 173. Needless to say, this feels great on the bike, I didn't even need to buy lighter components! On my current rides, usually 18-27 miles of technical trail riding, I drink water and have a protein shake (whey mixed with heavy whipping cream, yum) for recovery. This dietary plan obviously goes against the current paradigm, and it works superbly. If you are interested, Google Dr. Eades, paleo diet etc. Fat is the best endurance fuel, and in order to efficiently metabolize it, you have to cut the carbs and therefore modify your metabolic pathways.

[stephenmarklay]

Thanks for your thoughtful comments on this Karin. I just hate to be so skeptical but I have always taken things with a grain of salt. Studies by design must be highly specific and narrowly defined. This makes them so simplistic that they tend to fall apart when the other variables are put back in.

Again I will live the moderate life and do what feels right.

This is a common complaint with science in general. I mean, can't you scientists just figure out exactly how the human metabolism works already? ;)

We are uncomfortable with uncertainty, but science research is all about dwelling in the realm of what is not well understood. That part can't change, but perhaps the public reporting of scientific research results can be better at expressing uncertainly and not extrapolating one particular study to all populations (this is where we get into a lot of trouble).

But also, I think the public could do better with understanding a bit more about the scientific process. Getting students comfortable with uncertainty is a common topic in science courses these days. The world is very complex; we understand a whole lot about it. But of course there will always areas that are cloudy, so we need to be equipped to deal with information that is not yet resolute.

And yes, everything in moderation and doing sensible things that work for you and make you happy are excellent tactics! :)

[McQueen]

Yes, 'that' Situation from Jersey Shore, was on Howard Stern last week promoting his vodka with protien added.

As soon as I hear that kind of product, it kind of makes me think most of these sport drink arguments are mostly hype as well, and it's one of those things we do/drink just because it 'might' help, and probably won't hurt.

[stephenmarklay]

I think there is a lot of truth in that. We take a multivitamin for the same reason.

I am so used to sipping on sports drinks homemade or not I can't remember if I started due to the hype or a real need?!?!

Today I rode for 2.5 hours at an endurance level and even sprinted at the finish. All on water. Go figure. I did have Almond butter toast and a Banana before I set out going nowhere fast and that seemed to be good.
I think that my legs would have been a tad more fresh at the end if I had a bit of sugar but maybe not a huge difference.

Yes, 'that' Situation from Jersey Shore, was on Howard Stern last week promoting his vodka with protien added.

As soon as I hear that kind of product, it kind of makes me think most of these sport drink arguments are mostly hype as well, and it's one of those things we do/drink just because it 'might' help, and probably won't hurt.

[RPS]

....snipped.....
We are uncomfortable with uncertainty, but science research is all about dwelling in the realm of what is not well understood. That part can't change, but perhaps the public reporting of scientific research results can be better at expressing uncertainly and not extrapolating one particular study to all populations (this is where we get into a lot of trouble).
....snipped.....
Indeed. Unfortunately, those most responsible for reporting scientific research data and basic conclusions often have ulterior motives and thus report to the public emphasizing what benefits them most. Whether driven by financial gain or political power, a lot of science is lost in translation between research and what we the public are bombarded with daily.

Cholesterol research comes to mind. To a lot of people I know a reading of 200 has become such a demarcation line that they think 190 means they can eat brisket for dinner and 210 suggests they should be on Lipitor. Along the way the message that it’s about probabilities has been lost for the most part, as has a middle ground of incrementally rising health risks. How many of us have a clue to the scientific risk differences between 190 and 210? And beyond that how does the data compare for people of different ages, weights, races, exercise habits, etc….?

I get that it’s a lot easier and simpler to tell people their cholesterol is above 200 and that they need to start taking medications; or some variation of that theme. On the other hand I feel it does science a disservice.

[sixfootbrit]

I read the paleo book and the second one written with Friel. I think the basis of it weak.



Please explain.

[stephenmarklay]

The premmis of the diet is that our ancestors ate meat and a lot of it. He goes against the "grain" to try and prove that this is fact.

I think it is more likely that man was lucky to eat meat and when he had the good fortune to eat it it was likely in large amounts but not that often.

I also don't think the condemnation of foods that almost every other nutritionist would put on the A list is warranted (legumes for instance) or substantiated in any other work besides his.

The bottom line in my opinion is not what our ancestors ate (meat or otherwise) but rather how much they ate compared to what we eat in quantity. He points out that obesity was not an issue. Well I have news for you, you can get plenty fat on a paleo diet so our ancestors had that same opportunity.

BTW sixfootbrit I don't condemn you if you believe it and I am not attacking you. I am just airing my opinion that may not be worth the bits and bytes you see here :)

I think the Paleo diet is a great example of just what this thread is about. Taking information and extrapolating to the point of uselessness.

Mark Haub deserves a Noble prize for his twinkie diet. While I am not saying we should do this, it points out in no uncertain terms that the biggest problem we face is overeating not if we eat beans and wheat.

[etu]

i've alternated between Hammer Nutrition protein drinks and Gatorade depending on mood, how much biking, etc.

couple of personal experiences have colored my view on this topic.
when i did my first double century (Death Valley) back in 2003, i think i ate 15 or 16 Clif bars. i finished, but i have never eaten another Clif bar since...

the most delicious and fortifying food on a ride came that same year on another long ride (Devil Mtn Double) at the rest stop before the nasty climb up the back side of Mt. Hamilton. I was cooked and thought for sure I wouldn't make it. I had a cheeze burger with fries and it saved my ride. I don't know whether it was spiked with caffeine or amphetamines, but it got me over that big climb and help me finish. It was a real good burger too. :beer:

[stephenmarklay]

ETU I think that makes a good point. Everything you read and most of the products protein fortified or not are simple fast acting super absorption mega blah blah blah.

I think the body is pretty darn good taking what it needs from a burger with fries (a milkshake would have been tasty too :) )

The guys in the big stage races eat sandwiches and the like as well.

Thanks for the input.

[Skrawny]

FWIW
Cytomax makes my stomach get all wonkey on a ride. I stick to tried & true gatorade (although "red" is my favorite flavor, "yellow" makes less mess)
-s

[Acotts]

Protien in sports drinks makes me fart.

Anyone else notice that?

[fiamme red]

Mark Haub deserves a Noble prize for his twinkie diet. While I am not saying we should do this, it points out in no uncertain terms that the biggest problem we face is overeating not if we eat beans and wheat.Yes. It's not that human beings haven't evolved to eat the refined sugars in Twinkies, as the paleo cultists claim, it's that for a culture like ours where hardly any physical activity is needed, foods like Twinkies are too calorically dense.

[benb]

Well the other problem I have with a lot of the sugars is they're lab created sugars...

E.x. why is Xylitol in Hammer products good while HFCS in Coke is bad? Probably only because we don't have millions of people downing Hammer all day long.

Might as well eat food and save money.

[stephenmarklay]

Ding Ding Ding.

I am sure Mark had a bit of a go trying to keep his calories low on the diet. That is where veggies really have the advantage. My salads look like something Fred Flintstone would eat but calorie wise they are not bad at all.
My dietary issue is nuts and seeds but that is another story :)


Yes. It's not that human beings haven't evolved to eat the refined sugars in Twinkies, as the paleo cultists claim, it's that for a culture like ours where hardly any physical activity is needed, foods like Twinkies are too calorically dense.

[stephenmarklay]

I have been eating a good amount of carbs before getting on the trainer and feeling good. If I do what some advocate and have just a bit of carbs 10 minutes before I get all hypoglycemic at 20 minutes almost exactly.

I train most mornings and I have been eating a piece of toast with jam a banana or some variant of that. Today drank 8 oz of rice milk too for a really fun but hard 60 minute video. Felt fantastic. I could do it on no food but I think the sugars actually get my motor going harder.

I had a bit of protein powder after with my oatmeal which I likely will still do on harder or longer rides. Otherwise I will not worry about it.

I still will take some carbs on the road (bars likely or drink or gels for races) but forget the protein.

I am pretty certain I am going to slowly drop a few pounds by not eating on the trainer.