Decisions

[floresb]

I'm about to purchase my first Serotta and am torn between the Ottrott and MeiVici. I don't compete. I train and participate in group and charity rides. My current ride is a Trek SSL and am ready to make the change. Any thoughts or comments from the group are appreciated.

[fiamme red]

You can't go wrong with either. Both are great bikes.

[norcalbiker]

You can't go wrong with either. Both are great bikes.

+1 :D

[norcalbiker]

:D

[93legendti]

I have an Ottrott ST from '07 and it is perfect, I wouldn't change a thing. I'm sure the Meivici is also great, but for me the Ottrott ST ended my Serotta lust. It's the bike I compare my other bikes to.

[Lifelover]

Tough choice and one where there is no wrong answer.

I have always been a fan of Ti/CF bikes although I do not own one. If money were no object I may consider going all CF with the Meivici AE, but otherwise it woudl be the Ottrott. Then again, maybe a legend. I do and don't envy you.

[Ozz]

Aesthetically, I like the Ottrott....but, if money were no object I would probably get the Meivici...maybe. How's that for taking a stand! :cool:

Both are superb bikes and can be built to suit your needs.....

I don't know what your budget is, but if you get the Ottrott, with the $$ you save you can get some spiffy wheels!

:beer:

[Ti Designs]

I'm about to purchase my first Serotta and am torn between the Ottrott and MeiVici.

From an evolution and design standpoint, I would have to point at the MeiVici as the ultimate carbon frame. I'm in the industry, every new year we look at what's out there and what's looking good. I've seen the Colnago C59 - nice bike, stock geometry. If it fits, great! If not... The MeiVici brings all the advantages of the carbon tube, carbon lug frames and adds custom geometry to boot. As much as I love the Ottrott, it was an answer to a problem - how do you do custom in carbon? The answer was simple, make the custom bits in titanium where it's easy to miter and weld any angle you need. The down side is that you have two different materials, but carbon and titanium play nicely together.

When you look at full carbon custom bikes a number of builders come to mind, each has their own method. Bob Parlee has been doing it for a while, but the construction is very different. In the case of a parlee, the tubes are mitered, then carbon fabric is wrapped and resin soaked, then they use custom made aluminum clamps to heat and cure the lug - it's formed around the tube, which allows them to make customs, but the evacuation pressure is lower than it could be if the lug were formed without the tube there. The IF Corvid falls somewhere between the Parlee and the Serotta. The interesting thing about the IF line is how the prices came to what they are. Like Serotta, IF has a Ti lug, carbon tube bike called the XS. When the Corvid came out I was shocked to hear the price would be lower than the XS, but it was all about how labor intensive the XS is. In contrast, I've seen what goes into making the lugs for a MeiVici, there aren't many more labor intensive processes.

[Smiley]

From an evolution and design standpoint, I would have to point at the MeiVici as the ultimate carbon frame. I'm in the industry, every new year we look at what's out there and what's looking good. I've seen the Colnago C59 - nice bike, stock geometry. If it fits, great! If not... The MeiVici brings all the advantages of the carbon tube, carbon lug frames and adds custom geometry to boot. As much as I love the Ottrott, it was an answer to a problem - how do you do custom in carbon? The answer was simple, make the custom bits in titanium where it's easy to miter and weld any angle you need. The down side is that you have two different materials, but carbon and titanium play nicely together.

When you look at full carbon custom bikes a number of builders come to mind, each has their own method. Bob Parlee has been doing it for a while, but the construction is very different. In the case of a parlee, the tubes are mitered, then carbon fabric is wrapped and resin soaked, then they use custom made aluminum clamps to heat and cure the lug - it's formed around the tube, which allows them to make customs, but the evacuation pressure is lower than it could be if the lug were formed without the tube there. The IF Corvid falls somewhere between the Parlee and the Serotta. The interesting thing about the IF line is how the prices came to what they are. Like Serotta, IF has a Ti lug, carbon tube bike called the XS. When the Corvid came out I was shocked to hear the price would be lower than the XS, but it was all about how labor intensive the XS is. In contrast, I've seen what goes into making the lugs for a MeiVici, there aren't many more labor intensive processes.


Again my Pal Ed nails the technicalities like no one else can. But for me I like the Ottrott for the reasons that it puts Ti where it works best on a frame and Carbon in its respectable place to for a nicer BLENDED Ride. Think of the Ottrott like a Reeses Peanut Butter cup, you like chocolate and peanut butter or like Raisonettes with raisons and chocolate. OTTROTT is my choice and with the money you save get yourself some really PIMPED out wheels.

[haneriali]

I took delivery of an Ottrott SE earlier this month and chose it over the Legend and MeiVici. I decided I wanted the SE feature, which led me to eliminate the Legend, 'cause I would have wanted it with the classic full Ti build. I came from an 11-year-old Trek 5200. I'm in my 50s and I'll keep this bike forever, so I was looking for smooth and comfortable--something I can ride at (age) 70+ :) . Any one could be customized to your preferences, but I decided the Ottrott appealed to me aesthetically (mine has the new lugs, too). Also, it has been in production long enough that the engineering gurus have mastered the ride characteristics well. The outcome? It has an unbelievable ride and is a work of rolling art. Whichever you choose will be a treat! Enjoy the decision process and good luck.

[Pete Serotta]

You can not go wrong with either.


Ottrott is the one I would recommend first based on the riding that you do.

Just my view although I love the ride of both, as well as the HSG and Legend ti.) If you ride a 56 or 57 cm stop in Raleigh and test ride mine...

GO with the one that puts the smile on your face. All of the above ride well and if custom they can be tuned and sized exactly to your need.


Where are you located and what Serotta Dealer are you visiting :) Pete



I'm about to purchase my first Serotta and am torn between the Ottrott and MeiVici. I don't compete. I train and participate in group and charity rides. My current ride is a Trek SSL and am ready to make the change. Any thoughts or comments from the group are appreciated.

[BlackTiBob]

That's a tough one.
I ride an Ottrott ST and love the bike. I feel like I'm riding a work of art that also happens to be a superbly engineered bike. It has FORM and FUNCTION.

I will confess that I have and do suffer from Meivici-lust. I would like an all carbon bike, in addition to the Ottrott. A Meivici or Colnago EPS would do the trick.

I did have the pleasure of test riding a Serotta HSG for a couple of days and it was sweet. Different than the Ottrott but very nice.

It's a tough choice. The good part is that you can't make a bad decision as either will be fantastic.

[Bruce K]

I have an Ottrott ST and a Meivici. I ride mostly charity rides and for fun with my local clubs.

the only racing I do are TT's and cyclocross and i have other bikes for those.

I love them both but if i had to give one up it would be the Ottrott.

Ottrott is a Jaguar, the Meivici a Ferrari. Both wonderful machines but one is just a bit "more". A bit more racy feeling, a bit snappier.

If you want to ultimate touring car, get the Ottrott. If you want the ultimate sports car, get the Meivici.

BK

[soul survivor]

Just wondering, did you ride the CDA? I was bent on the Otrott, rode both the Otrott and Mevici several times, then when I was about to buy the Otrott, rode the CDA SE several times :beer: . Enjoyed the CDA so much I couldn't justify buying the Otrott -- and I'm 54, in good shape but not a racer. I'd try the CDA SE before buying.

[Elefantino]

I think you have a choice between two supermodels.

Either one looks perfect and will provide you with lots of guilty pleasure. :D

[AndrewS]

From an evolution and design standpoint, I would have to point at the MeiVici as the ultimate carbon frame. I'm in the industry, every new year we look at what's out there and what's looking good. I've seen the Colnago C59 - nice bike, stock geometry. If it fits, great! If not... The MeiVici brings all the advantages of the carbon tube, carbon lug frames and adds custom geometry to boot. As much as I love the Ottrott, it was an answer to a problem - how do you do custom in carbon? The answer was simple, make the custom bits in titanium where it's easy to miter and weld any angle you need. The down side is that you have two different materials, but carbon and titanium play nicely together.

When you look at full carbon custom bikes a number of builders come to mind, each has their own method. Bob Parlee has been doing it for a while, but the construction is very different. In the case of a parlee, the tubes are mitered, then carbon fabric is wrapped and resin soaked, then they use custom made aluminum clamps to heat and cure the lug - it's formed around the tube, which allows them to make customs, but the evacuation pressure is lower than it could be if the lug were formed without the tube there. The IF Corvid falls somewhere between the Parlee and the Serotta. The interesting thing about the IF line is how the prices came to what they are. Like Serotta, IF has a Ti lug, carbon tube bike called the XS. When the Corvid came out I was shocked to hear the price would be lower than the XS, but it was all about how labor intensive the XS is. In contrast, I've seen what goes into making the lugs for a MeiVici, there aren't many more labor intensive processes.
There's some interesting points made in here, and some of them struck me as odd:

Comparing the Parlee product to the MeiVici. While similar looking, these two frames have such different claimed weights that you have to assume that something very different is going on under the hood. This isn't to say that the lighter one is superior, just that the extra weight of the heavier one must be there for a reason, since we are talking about a very expensive frame where every bit of carbon is there for a reason.

I am also surprised that it would be thought to be harder to build the MeiVici than the Ottrott. While the MeiVici lugs might be labor intensive to build, an Ottrott is all of the difficulty of a titanium frame build with the addition of some of the hard parts of a carbon build. In contrast, the MeiVici is carbon on carbon, so all the fabrication is much more closely related.


I guess I might lean toward an Ottrot, since it is something of an interdisciplinary showboat, combining two premium fabrication methods. The MeiVici doesn't strike me as the pinnacle of carbon technology, and I think you have to be thinking along those lines when you spend that much on a bicycle.

[Lifelover]

...
I am also surprised that it would be thought to be harder to build the MeiVici than the Ottrott. While the MeiVici lugs might be labor intensive to build, an Ottrott is all of the difficulty of a titanium frame build with the addition of some of the hard parts of a carbon build. In contrast, the MeiVici is carbon on carbon, so all the fabrication is much more closely related....


I'm under the impression that welding is cheaper, quicker and less difficult that machining in multiple planes.

If memory serves me right, the Meivici lugs are machined, not molded like most others.

[aoe]

When you look at full carbon custom bikes a number of builders come to mind, each has their own method. Bob Parlee has been doing it for a while, but the construction is very different. In the case of a parlee, the tubes are mitered, then carbon fabric is wrapped and resin soaked, then they use custom made aluminum clamps to heat and cure the lug - it's formed around the tube, which allows them to make customs, but the evacuation pressure is lower than it could be if the lug were formed without the tube there. The IF Corvid falls somewhere between the Parlee and the Serotta. The interesting thing about the IF line is how the prices came to what they are. Like Serotta, IF has a Ti lug, carbon tube bike called the XS. When the Corvid came out I was shocked to hear the price would be lower than the XS, but it was all about how labor intensive the XS is. In contrast, I've seen what goes into making the lugs for a MeiVici, there aren't many more labor intensive processes.

This is interesting. Mind elaborating a bit more on the pros and cons of the 3 methods/bikes? How do these methods affect ride characteristics, strength, etc?

[1centaur]

Indeed, this is where the rubber meets the road if the decision between the bikes is intellectual rather than emotional. If you've seen the Serotta video from the factory, you'll have an impression of the difficulty and precision behind those Meivici lugs. Nobody else does it that way. Why, besides a greater ability to customize geometry? If you are a typically proportioned rider, what do those lugs get you in ride quality that you don't get on a well made CF bike from somebody else?

Again if this is a decision of the brain, I look at the Ottrot and think it was an intermediate step, a metal company learning to use CF. It seems implausible that the characteristics of Ti and CF blend to the benefit of both in an optimal way at the exact proportions used in that bike.

But stepping back to the level of emotion is probably where this decision needs to be made. I suspect both bikes ride really, really nicely and are exceptionally well built. Not too many people will have owned both for years, so their impressions will not create a sufficient sample size from which to make the decision. I'd always say to go with the gut on this decision - they are both unusually constructed bikes and both well loved. If it were me, I'd go with the Ottrot because I have a lot of CF bikes and the Ottrot seems Oh So Serotta to me, quintessential, and not something I'll find a competitor to in the future. I also think its looks make for more interesting paint options.

[AndrewS]

I'm under the impression that welding is cheaper, quicker and less difficult that machining in multiple planes.

If memory serves me right, the Meivici lugs are machined, not molded like most others.
It is my impression that mult-plane machining has been pretty easy since the advent of CNC. I don't know the specifics of Serotta's system, but my impression from the Serotta/Parlee dealer was that one method is to create a carbon lug set that will work across a certain range of tube angles, then mill the inside out for the precise angles of the frame you're assembling. That didn't strike me as hugely labor intensive, but a good method because you wouldn't want to completely machine the lug - carbon is directional and the outer portion of the lug needs to have uninterrupted fibers running in the right directions to take the load.

Another cost factor is that machining composites, while no picnic, is easier on tooling than titanium or steel.

The kind of Ti Serotta uses is expensive, the welding set up and procedures for Ti are expensive, the machined parts are difficult and hard on tooling and your labor costs for a welder of that competence are high.

Under the right circumstances, the labor cost for lay-up people and CNC machinist for the MeiVici might be pretty low. And Ti Design's reference to IFs pricing seems to reflect this.

[rugbysecondrow]

Mevici. Have you seen the Mevici Pez owns? A carbon frame with lugs...just fabulous.

[rbtmcardle]

Having the good fortune of buying a used Meivici which just happened to be exactly my size, I absolutely love my Meivici. I have not had the pleasure of riding an Ottrott, though a friend has one I do admire, I am certain, regardless of your choice you will be happy. I will warn you that if you are anything like most people here, the quest for the next perfect bike will never end. Enjoy the journey.

[palincss]

Ottrott is a Jaguar, the Meivici a Ferrari. Both wonderful machines but one is just a bit "more". A bit more racy feeling, a bit snappier.

If you want to ultimate touring car, get the Ottrott. If you want the ultimate sports car, get the Meivici.


Which of those would be better suited to charity rides, do you think?

[pdmtong]

if you have the dough for a meivici, get it. it's a "better" ottrott by all accounts. I have a '05 ottrott and it is superb. but, I think it's time has past IF you can afford a meivici.

[floresb]

I went with the Ottrott. I may add the MeiVici next, but I love the Ti/CF combination. The build is just a swap off my SSL for the time being. Thanks for everyone's input. The ride is fantastic - didn't know what I was missing until this morning's ride.

[1centaur]

Hey, both isn't a decision, it's sequence!

[Pete Serotta]

:bike: I went with the Ottrott. I may add the MeiVici next, but I love the Ti/CF combination. The build is just a swap off my SSL for the time being. Thanks for everyone's input. The ride is fantastic - didn't know what I was missing until this morning's ride.


You will enjoy.

Two of my closest friends have OTTROTTs, my son in law has mine on long term loan in St. Louis.

1centaur and many others gave some very good info. THANKS

[Smiley]

Like a peanut butter cup, good for chocolate and peanut butter lovers. YOU MADE the right choice in my mind.

[akelman]

I've owned a lot of nice bikes through the years, and one of the only ones that I still miss is the Ottrot that I sold here years ago. That was a great bike: quick but steady at speed, incredibly comfortable but not at all soft, lovely to look at but not so blinged out that I felt like I was out on the town with a high-priced call girl. That said, I've never seen a Meivici in person, which is why I didn't weigh in earlier. Still, I suspect you'll love the Ottrott. And as several people have already noted, it's important to have a bike to covet.