Tire compounds...

[dd74]

I know that with car tires, there are soft and hard compounds; as well, tires that have more or have less sidewall flex.

My question is might there be a 23mm performance tire out there which is noted for a harder compound or for being stiff in the sidewall region?

In the general sense of this question, I am looking for a stiffer tire.

Thx.

[AndrewS]

Considering that stiffer sidewalls are generally supposed to have both poorer traction and greater rolling resistance, could you maybe say more about the ride qualities that you're looking for? I think that may get you a more constructive answer.

[BillG]

I agree, it's out of the ordinary to want stiff sidewalls. Do you want them stiff in order to not get sidewall cuts? Or for another reason.

[bike22]

My question is might there be a 23mm performance tire out there which is noted for a harder compound or for being stiff in the sidewall region?

In the general sense of this question, I am looking for a stiffer tire.

sure.
a gp4k has a stiffer tread than say, a pr3.
likewise a gatorskin has a stiffer tread than a gp4k.

"training" tires will have stiffer treads than pure racing tires.

the stiffest sidewalled, most rigid tread road tire is the specialized armadillo.

or try solid bicycle tires.

although the other posters who say that you don't want a stiffer tire are spot-on.

[dd74]

Yes, the reason I've been debating a stiffer sidewall is to reduce the flex - or try to reduce the flex - that I believe might be coming from the tire and wheels. It's more of a test than anything else. I might be imagining things, but hey, I'm sort of a purposeful geek that way. :D

[dd74]

sure.
a gp4k has a stiffer tread than say, a pr3.
likewise a gatorskin has a stiffer tread than a gp4k.

"training" tires will have stiffer treads than pure racing tires.

the stiffest sidewalled, most rigid tread road tire is the specialized armadillo.

or try solid bicycle tires.

although the other posters who say that you don't want a stiffer tire are spot-on.
I ride Continental Grand Prix 4000 almost exclusively. Would you know how those tires stack up in the scheme of stiffness?

[AndrewS]

They're great riding tires, so the sidewalls are flexible.

How about just running your tire pressure up to 130? That should be pretty similar to a stiff tire - hard, poor traction and greater rolling resistance.

[djg]

Yes, the reason I've been debating a stiffer sidewall is to reduce the flex - or try to reduce the flex - that I believe might be coming from the tire and wheels. It's more of a test than anything else. I might be imagining things, but hey, I'm sort of a purposeful geek that way. :D

So . . . if you want the tire to flex/deform less, why not put more air in it? It seems like something that's easier to tune than just looking for tires that always ride like rocks.

[dd74]

Yeah, 130 psi is what I have been doing. Then it becomes a durability issue I would think. I do know Michelins don't tend to like such high psi.

I may try for 135 rear, 130 front, and see what that does.

The 4000s stick pretty well to the curves, when all is considered.

[bike22]

why exactly do you want a stiffer tire?

[dd74]

why exactly do you want a stiffer tire?
I explained why in my opening post.

[bike22]

I explained why in my opening post.
I just re-read it and didn't see anything other than less sidewall flex.

[palincss]

I explained why in my opening post.

You cited what you thought was the cause, but you never described the problem or symptoms you thought "wheel and tire flex" was causing.

Since "flex" is the number one cycling dirtyword and is bad by definition, perhaps when it comes to tires you should instead say "suppleness and compliance," which are cycling happywords as well as happening to be good and true in this case.

Then maybe you wouldn't be tempted to do something foolish like using Armadillo tires (unless, of course, you live in goathead country when your only other choices are solids, running on the rims, or not cycling at all).

[dd74]

I just re-read it and didn't see anything other than less sidewall flex.
Yes, sidewall flex is what I meant. Coming from the car/track world, sidewall flex is a killer in the corners (i.e. understeer). I'm just wondering if the same applies to what I feel as flex from the wheels/tires, particularly when starting off from a stop or up a hill in a hard gear.

That's all, really. I think I'll go with Andrew's advice, and pump the tires with a few more psi.

Thx. :)

[dd74]

You cited what you thought was the cause, but you never described the problem or symptoms you thought "wheel and tire flex" was causing.

Since "flex" is the number one cycling dirtyword and is bad by definition, perhaps when it comes to tires you should instead say "suppleness and compliance," which are cycling happywords as well as happening to be good and true in this case.

Then maybe you wouldn't be tempted to do something foolish like using Armadillo tires (unless, of course, you live in goathead country when your only other choices are solids, running on the rims, or not cycling at all).
Right. Well, as I said in my last post, I'll probably play with the air pressure and see what that does - it's easy enough to do.

But another question: can't there be a situation when suppleness and compliance is not exactly the feel of choice? As in a sprint? I like a nice ride, but would trade it for immediate responsiveness.

[palincss]

Yes, sidewall flex is what I meant. Coming from the car/track world, sidewall flex is a killer in the corners (i.e. understeer). I'm just wondering if the same applies to what I feel as flex from the wheels/tires, particularly when starting off from a stop or up a hill in a hard gear.


Bicycle tires are inflated much, much harder than car tires. What's more, the weight distribution of a bicycle is much different than a car.

[palincss]

But another question: can't there be a situation when suppleness and compliance is not exactly the feel of choice? As in a sprint? I like a nice ride, but would trade it for immediate responsiveness.

That might conceivably make sense if you were doing bicycle drag racing; in road racing sprints matter only to the leaders after an extended period of road racing. Suppleness and compliance in tires give you speed and low rolling resistance, and their lack makes you slower, so you won't be in the sprint in the first place, right?

[bobswire]

In answer to your original question regarding tires with thicker sidewalls.
Tubeless road tires have thicker sidewalls like Hutchinson Fusion3 and Atom but they are rather pricey for an experiment.

[mister]

dd74 you can get a stiffer tire but it won't have any better traction.
probably worse because the contact patch will be smaller.
as far as cornering, the same principles don't exactly apply to cars and bikes.

i'm curious.
what kind of wheels are you riding?

i'll bet a stiffer wheel will make more difference than a different tire.