topics re: electronic shifting - Campy and Shimano

[eddief]

got me to thinking that Shimano must have many times the financial resources to do R&D compared to Campagnolo. Right? Interesting it appears Campy is managing to keep some market share and keep innovating.

And then there is the degree to which SRAM has quickly become a significant major player in the gruppo, shifting technology arena.

[palincss]

Is there a question in there?

[GuyGadois]

I think Campy does tons of R&D. They have electronic shifting but not released to the public yet. The cool thing about Campy is that the company is almost 100% focused on cycling. That being said I do like my Shimano fishing reel.

[AndrewS]

It used to be that Shimano had a narrower focus than Campy - they just made components. Now Shimano, like Campy has for decades, is in the wheel business. As Shimano usually does good work, no one seemed to question what they know about making wheels.

I don't know how big an R&D department you need to make good cycling parts. It strikes me that a fairly small team of designers who have access to state of the art prototyping facilities and test beds can get an awful lot done. More than a couple cycling parts over the years have been completely the brain child of one man.

[spartacus]

Where Shimano kills the opposition is in the art of metal forging. It isn't a coincidence that Japan was also the country where the art of sword blade manufacturing reached its zenith centuries ago. The Japanese know metals.

[eddief]

about the comparisons of percentages each company has of the road bike biz, revenue, r&d budgets, etc.

i'm thinking putting out competitive electronic shifting products requires some significant resources. i really don't know, but it would seem to me shimano is much bigger, and perhaps, more able to innovate and compete. but i could be all wrong about that.

[oldpotatoe]

about the comparisons of percentages each company has of the road bike biz, revenue, r&d budgets, etc.

i'm thinking putting out competitive electronic shifting products requires some significant resources. i really don't know, but it would seem to me shimano is much bigger, and perhaps, more able to innovate and compete. but i could be all wrong about that.

shimano-about $1.2 Billion
sram-about $500 million
Campagnolo-about $100 million

gross $, 2009 or so.

[Ralph]

Looks like Campagnolo is struggling for survival. Better buy those hard to get parts now.

[eddief]

that's what i was curious about. wondering what it takes for Campy, or anyone, to stay in the game. those number are startling.

[rice rocket]

Looks like Campagnolo is struggling for survival. Better buy those hard to get parts now.
Is that any less than before? Campy has always been low-volume since they decided to only compete in the "enthusiast" market, no?

[oldpotatoe]

Looks like Campagnolo is struggling for survival. Better buy those hard to get parts now.

Campagnolo pretty much sells all they make every year. They really haven't 'struggled' since about 1988/9 during the MTB debacle. They sold a lot of their diverse manufacturing(like magnesium forgings for the aircraft industry) and made stuff that worked.

Campagnolo has enjoyed gross sales increases just about every year since 1991/2...modest but positive. Ya know Rolex isn't big like Seiko and Audi isn't big like Honda...or Ducati like even Kawasaki. Sram is big cuz they bought all the stuff they have. Don't make it any good tho, red frogs notwithstanding.

shimano makes everything from fishing reels to engine blocks. sram buys a brand and makes it offshore. I'm surprised they were able to figure out doubletap.

[GuyGadois]

I'm surprised they were able to figure out doubletap.

Did they?

http://www.everymantri.com/.a/6a00d83451b18a69e20133f26660bc970b-pi

[Avispa]

shimano-about $1.2 Billion
sram-about $500 million
Campagnolo-about $100 million


Funny thing besides these numbers is that as of last season the number of ProTour Teams using each brand was equally divided by the three makers.

That is 6 teams used Campy, 6 Shimano and 6 Sram.

However, Campy had more representation than any of the other two makers if one counted the National and Continental teams.

..A..

[Rueda Tropical]

There seem to be quite a few Italian companies that are family owned that are not interested in being the biggest, or going public but are committed to carrying on the tradition of making a great product and expect their children and grandchildren will continue the tradition.

I've seen "factories" where procuitto is produced that look like a cross between a modern museum and high tech lab. A visit to a US meat packing plant might turn you into a vegetarian. It seems to me 100 million is big enough to fund research. A few committed talented guys will out innovate an army of run of the mill engineers (not saying that Shimano does not have talented, commited engineers).

[spartacus]

Campagnolo pretty much sells all they make every year. They really haven't 'struggled' since about 1988/9 during the MTB debacle. They sold a lot of their diverse manufacturing(like magnesium forgings for the aircraft industry) and made stuff that worked.

Campagnolo has enjoyed gross sales increases just about every year since 1991/2...modest but positive. Ya know Rolex isn't big like Seiko and Audi isn't big like Honda...or Ducati like even Kawasaki. Sram is big cuz they bought all the stuff they have. Don't make it any good tho, red frogs notwithstanding.

shimano makes everything from fishing reels to engine blocks. sram buys a brand and makes it offshore. I'm surprised they were able to figure out doubletap.

The Rolex company makes significantly more money from its property portfolio than from watches.

[oldpotatoe]

Funny thing besides these numbers is that as of last season the number of ProTour Teams using each brand was equally divided by the three makers.

That is 6 teams used Campy, 6 Shimano and 6 Sram.

However, Campy had more representation than any of the other two makers if one counted the National and Continental teams.

..A..

Also more teams used Campagnolo at the TdF...means little but I wouldn't say Campagnolo is 'struggling' in any way. It goes up and down constantly.

[Bob Loblaw]

Hey, their shifters work better than their chains. I think.

Did they?

http://www.everymantri.com/.a/6a00d83451b18a69e20133f26660bc970b-pi

[GuyGadois]

Hey, their shifters work better than their chains. I think.

Touche

http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/imageBank/f/Fabien%20Cancellara%20Tour%20of%20Flanders%202009. jpg