Met two cyclist this week who hate steel frames...

[dd74]

I mean, it was almost with zeal that they did so. One was riding Ti, the other carbon.

I can understand preferring one material or the other over steel - but hating steel? Seemed a bit harsh to me. Possibly it was a reversed retro-grouch thing. I dunno...

[Louis]

It's a Karma thing. Someone has to balance out Grant P.

[BengeBoy]

That's the kind of bias that will get you fired from NPR.

[Louis]

Good riddance. I never liked him anyway, even before he went over to the dark side.

[Blue Jays]

A well-fitted steel bike feels great.
A well-fitted aluminum bike feels great.
A well-fitted carbon fiber bike feels great.
A well-fitted titanium bike feels great.

[AndrewS]

I've never ridden much on steel. Back when I started riding aluminum was the rage, so that's what I got. It was light and efficient, and being third generation, didn't beat me up too much.

It also came with a Prism aluminum fork. The press loved these things - excellent track and control without the harshness of steel. Lot's of people really seemed to believe that, and only steel frames or cheap bikes came with anything but aluminum forks for several years - pretty much until the Kestrel EMS became common.

Steel has many fine properties, but from what I've seen and heard, traditional steel frame diameters don't make for the stiffest BBs or frames in general. The Rinard frame tests show that the most flexible bicycles of that time were made of steel, up to 4 times as flexible as a Cannondale (he doesn't have a Vitus or TVT on there, though). Not that all steel bicycles were flexible, but many were very flexy, even compared to the older Ti frames. Plus, many steel frames were pushing 6 pounds - that didn't make any friends, either.

Anyway, more than a couple people got the idea that steel is both flexy AND harsh. Given the right fork and frame combination, they aren't really wrong. A stiff fork on a 58cm 531 frame probably isn't going to win any ultimate performance or smoothness fame.


In the aftermath of all the oversized aluminum, utilitarian looking titanium and "soulless" carbon, we are in a renaissance of steel. Steel bikes are better than they have ever been with the new tubesets and new designs. But like any romantic period, we're all more likely to look the other way about some of steel's downsides. The older style frames are nice enough to ride, but for people who have ridden the modern alternatives to something like SL or 531, the traditional steel frames are second bikes, not "serious" enough for hard riding and racing.

I don't have strong feelings about this, because I'm small and somewhat light - my Vitus didn't flex much, even. But I can certainly see why some people are not fans of frames that can be simultaneously harsh, flexible and heavy. Sure, they should try some of the better steel, but they had their experiences and saw the light elsewhere.

[Nil Else]

Considering at one point Colnago almost did away with their steel frames this sentiment isn't all that radical. European mainstream MFGs used to think Americans and Japanese cuckoos for continuing to demand steel.

[dd74]

European mainstream MFGs used to think Americans and Japanese cuckoos for continuing to demand steel.
I think Eddy Merckx once commented on this in much the same way; that given the newer materials in bike frames, particularly carbon, why would anyone select steel?

[AngryScientist]

i like to rule out all absolutes. bikes should be considered on a frame by frame basis, with its intended rider and use in mind. certainly claiming to "hate" all frames of a particular material seems ridiculous.

[rugbysecondrow]

:beer: i like to rule out all absolutes. bikes should be considered on a frame by frame basis, with its intended rider and use in mind. certainly claiming to "hate" all frames of a particular material seems ridiculous.

Ding Ding Ding!

To laud all frames of a specific material is just a ridiculous.

[DreaminJohn]

I often wonder what would happen if these "bigots" rode frames that masked the material of which it was made.

I know I'd fail that test.

[firerescuefin]

I have only been around for 3 months on this forum, but the material (whatever it is) post/argument is tired anyway you spin it.

[bobswire]

Aren't we forgetting something fellas, Bamboo gets no respect. :p

[johnnymossville]

Did they have reasons for hating it? Rust maybe?

[cmg]

if you didn't start out riding on steel then i can see that the rider's frame of reference might point him to this "i hate" attitude. riding steel doen't make sense, it's archaic to them. i like steel, recently sold a custom frame that was as light an alumium frame i have, kept the 2 steel frames that are heavier. it's all about fit and the ride.

[dimsy]

I don't exactly know why but this is the type of thread I wish I stumbled upon when it was already 6 pages deep.

at the same time i feel this thread is preaching to the choir.

[Seott-e]

They obviously haven’t ridden some of the new STEEL tube sets. K Bedford comes to mind.
Ignorance is bliss as they say………………..

[Charles M]

I mean, it was almost with zeal that they did so. One was riding Ti, the other carbon.

I can understand preferring one material or the other over steel - but hating steel? Seemed a bit harsh to me. Possibly it was a reversed retro-grouch thing. I dunno...



LMAO...



After regular BS posts month by month for the last 10 years from Carbon haters...


We finally find two guys baseless steel bashers that speak up first (assuming they were not just bated into the topic). But we hear it second hand :D



Napoleonic Matallurgists : 12,214
Steel bashing Carbonateurs : 2*

:)

[SEABREEZE]

I say so what, its there prorogitive to hate or like something, to each there own.

One likes chevy the other prefers ford, another likes audi the other likes bmw.

LIVE AND LET LIVE.Everyone has there reason, correct in thinking or not..

[spacemen3]

That's tough talk from two guys who probably don't have enough upper-body strength to lift a steel bike onto their car's roof rack. ;)

[RPS]

To a lot of people newer is considered better – and steel is old.

[Charles M]

I think to a lot of people, better is better...

And the priorities people put on one material versus the next is personal and virtually never wrong!


It's the blanket judgment that some people cast at other materials as being lesser (heavy, dead, fragile, flexy, harsh) that is frequently garbage / envy / jealousy.



But hey, lets use second hand steel bashing as a reason to twist this into our biweekly carbon bashing thread!!!

[William]

Justifying your choices. It's been happening since people started wearing skins and picking up sticks.




William.

[johnnymossville]

Steel consists of at least some carbon so it's not all bad right? :)

[Charles M]

Justifying your choices. It's been happening since people started wearing skins and picking up sticks.




William.


KANGAROO!!!!

Tougher, stronger and lighter!!!

[William]

KANGAROO!!!!

Tougher, stronger and lighter!!!


Uhg!! isnot!!!

http://dallasvintageshop.com/wp-content/uploads/Image/ancient/cave-MAN.jpg



William :D

[johnnymossville]

hey let's start a wool vs lycra thread!

[Nil Else]

Justifying your choices. It's been happening since people started wearing skins and picking up sticks.


Just start a "Best" product thread and see it get flooded with all the ownership biased opinion/justification posts... tis Human Nature. These threads are often useless as the content gets diluted with all the knee jerk reaction *whatever I have is the best* posts.

[RPS]

I think to a lot of people, better is better...

And the priorities people put on one material versus the next is personal and virtually never wrong!
.....snipped.....
I agree better is better, but the young and/or people who are new to cycling don’t have as much passion or memories invested in steel. And to some that is exactly what makes steel better.

Would we expect any young person go back to a tube TV? Would any of us go back to black and white? Maybe some will go back to record players for nostalgic reasons but the numbers will be incredibly small.

New technologies can improve these things by making tube TVs digital and a plasma screen may make black and white better than 30 years ago, but it won’t make it comparable to the latest technologies. I like and ride steel and will do so later today, but I can also see how some riders will view it as a has-been.

It’s not the way I view it personally -- in part because I’m older -- but I can see how others might. It’s a given that using the word “hate” was brainless, but new is what sells. How many major brands sell steel in numbers that approach their titanium and carbon? Riders speak with their wallets.

[BengeBoy]

hey let's start a wool vs lycra thread!

Hey, I don't mind to sound like a bigot, but every time I get on an airplane with someone dressed head to toe in lycra it makes me nervous.

[Nil Else]

How many major brands sell steel in numbers that approach their titanium and carbon? Riders speak with their wallets.


Just curious... how many MAJOR brands offer titanium frames these days?

[dbh]

As a younger rider and someone relatively new to cycling (within the past fives years), I completely drank the steel is real kool aid. That said, most of my cycling buddies my age ride crabon or alu exclusively. If you're not into the mystique of a handbuilt frame, don't care what name is painted on the dt, and want something stiff but forgiving, it's pretty easy to buy a complete carbon bike at your LBS around the 1.5k mark and be quite content. That said, if I had a chainstay snap on me from rust, it would color my view on steel.

[dimsy]

Hey, I don't mind to sound like a bigot, but every time I get on an airplane with someone dressed head to toe in lycra it makes me nervous.

perfect. thanks for this.

[Nil Else]

on an airplane with someone dressed head to toe in lycra



Spiderman?

[rugbysecondrow]

Hey, I don't mind to sound like a bigot, but every time I get on an airplane with someone dressed head to toe in lycra it makes me nervous.


it depends on how cute she is and how/where the lycra is stretched...makes my palms sweat too.

[93legendti]

Hate is a strong word.
I enjoy riding my ti, steel and ti/carbon bikes.
I recall enjoying riding my carbon bikes when I had them.

On a side note, I am weaning myself off of a 100% wool cool weather cycling wardrobe and partially reintroducing fleece into the mix.

[johnnymossville]

Hey, I don't mind to sound like a bigot, but every time I get on an airplane with someone dressed head to toe in lycra it makes me nervous.

like these guys?

http://dlisted.com/files/caption0809.jpg

[bobswire]

I go both ways with a nice combination of Carbon and Steel. My other bike is Ti. :beer:

http://i53.tinypic.com/20hol8j.jpg

[Dekonick]

Hey, I don't mind to sound like a bigot, but every time I get on an airplane with someone dressed head to toe in lycra it makes me nervous.

Why? That is the new business dress to avoid the body scanner! :beer:

[dd74]

Did they have reasons for hating it? Rust maybe?
Age, old school, stuff they rode on when they were kids.

I've been criticized (yes, criticized) for riding my old DT shifter steel bikes, both by other cyclists and even people in cars while at a stoplight.

"Why don't you get some new gear, man?"

"Did you have that in high school?"

Happens in group rides, too. :rolleyes:

[AndrewS]

Age, old school, stuff they rode on when they were kids.

I've been criticized (yes, criticized) for riding my old DT shifter steel bikes, both by other cyclists and even people in cars while at a stoplight.

"Why don't you get some new gear, man?"

"Did you have that in high school?"

Happens in group rides, too. :rolleyes:
Around here you get compliments when you do it. Especially if you're seen while passing.

[dd74]

LMAO...



After regular BS posts month by month for the last 10 years from Carbon haters...


We finally find two guys baseless steel bashers that speak up first (assuming they were not just bated into the topic). But we hear it second hand :D



Napoleonic Matallurgists : 12,214
Steel bashing Carbonateurs : 2*

:)
I think the word you want is "baited."

[dd74]

Around here you get compliments when you do it. Especially if you're seen while passing.
The funny thing is, when all fits properly - or more properly than not - I can't tell a damn difference between any material until I hit a very large bump.

I think the main materials (carbon, steel, Ti), have become more alike than dissimilar, at least in feel.

[AndrewS]

The positives are hard to notice (like good ride and damping), but flex is pretty easy to perceive, and dislike.

[Nil Else]

I can't tell a damn difference between any material



I'm afraid you done alerted the collective of your presence...

http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/3792/17806511453395241.jpg (http://img140.imageshack.us/i/17806511453395241.jpg/)

[Ken Robb]

like these guys?

http://dlisted.com/files/caption0809.jpg

This Polish Team photo reminds me of a joke about attracting women through the clever use of a potato. :)

[CaptStash]

I agree better is better, but the young and/or people who are new to cycling don’t have as much passion or memories invested in steel. And to some that is exactly what makes steel better.

Would we expect any young person go back to a tube TV? Would any of us go back to black and white? Maybe some will go back to record players for nostalgic reasons but the numbers will be incredibly small.



This is actually a great analogy, especially if you are talking about hi fidelity sound equipment. "Stereos" used to be all tube. Then along came transistors and eventually everybody had solid state. But now, the very best amplifiers are tube amps. And they cost a fortune. Pretty similar to what is happening with custom steel bike frames.

I have a steel IF Crown Jewel I love, and old Titranium McMahon I really like, and a scandium ultralight Felt I sort of hate. I'd love to try carbon. So there.

CaptStash....

[texbike]

it depends on how cute she is and how/where the lycra is stretched...makes my palms sweat too.

Now THIS is a materials discussion that I can get into! Silicon vs ????

I'm willing to volunteer for plenty of field testing to determine which is the better material. :)

Texbike

[gdw]

Do either of them plane?

[Frankwurst]

I like Bicycles. Always have. Always will. The best material is one that will get someone on one and keep them riding one. Keep being the operative word in the statement. :beer:

[Elefantino]

That's the kind of bias that will get you fired from NPR.
POTD.

As far as the rest, it's funny. That's it. Funny.

I met a guy who once asked me, "Why do you ride titanium?"

Response: "Because it's paid for."

[oldpotatoe]

I like Bicycles. Always have. Always will. The best material is one that will get someone on one and keep them riding one. Keep being the operative word in the statement. :beer:

Easy there buddy, no sense injecting reality here..move along....

[207 cm]

The two individuals that 'hate steel' don't really hate steel. They just have other serious "issues" and are directing their anger at steel [undoubtedly other things too].

Show me on the doll where the bad steel frame touched you.........

[johnnymossville]

The main problem with steel is that the downtubes generally aren't large enough to show off a properly sized status symbol, I mean logo.

[fiamme red]

Does he hate steel frames enough to throw them?