For Climb: Mount Washingtom gearing

[jeffg]

Climb:

Just a couple thoughts on gearing for the Ottrott, which I thought I would post if anyone had ideas about them. I have climbed a road in the Black Forest recently which is about as steep as Mount Washington for about 1/3 the distance, and a 39X29 is good for about 60-65 rpm average, though I dip into the 50s on quite a few occassions. This has gotten me to consider a compact for the Ventoux century (170km including the climb from Bedoin and then from Sault to Chalet Reynard), but I was thinking about your ride and the fact that you really just want to swap crank and cassette since you are running DA 10 (double) at present.

#1 110 BCD crank: This an obvious one, and gives you a 34X27 as a possible low gear. Depending on your strength/preferred cadence this may or may not be enough. I have used this on slogs through the Alps, DCs, etc., but I have certainly not been climbing at 80 rpm the whole time. I will use a 48/34, 12X27 on the Devil Mountain double if I am able to ride this year (topic for another thread!), and although nothing seems optimal for Sierra Road (3.2 miles @ 10.7% after 150 miles and 14,000 feet), it suits me much better than the 39X27 I used on my first DMD. Ouch!

#2 Compact MTB double (FRM, PMP?): What about an FRM or PMP (jerk?) crank (44/29), with a DA-like integrated crank/BB? This would give you better than a 30X27 as a low gear and roughly a 53X14 up top with pretty nice gear spacing. I don't think the Q is that low as it is designed for a MTB, but I don't think it's too outrageous either. Does anyone have any thoughts as to why this would not work?

Good luck with your training!

[Climb01742]

jeff,
thanks a lot! good things to think about. right now, i guess i'd lean toward swapping an FSA crank on (with a 34 for sure) and fiddling with the rear cassette. my training is working on both high and low rpm's, 'cause on something like mt washington, you gotta do both! thanks again!

[ergott]

I used compact (34) front and a mtb cassette on the back (34). One year I used a XTR crank on the front with the 34 in the back and I was the most comfortable. Funny, but the fastest I went up was with a 39/34 setup, but I was also in the best shape at the time. My average cadence was 26-50rpm!

When running a gear calculator such as http://www.panix.com/~jbarrm/cycal/cycal.30f.html figure on an average speed of 4-5mph. Any faster and you shouldn't be asking anybody's advise on gearing ;) ;) ;)

I did this for my Campy setup. http://www.hubbub.com/ergoleverswshim9.htm
It ran perfectly and all I needed was an XT rear der and Shimano wheel.

-Eric

PS
http://www.topozone.com/map.asp?z=19&n=4905852&e=318702&s=100&size=l&datum=nad83&layer=DRG25

[jeffg]

I know you can use a MTB cassette/RD with 9 speed DA, but what about the new ten speed? I imagine a gear near 30 inches would be the ticket. Again, different strokes for different folks. On my ride yesterday with Carpe Diem I rode with a 13-29 and he had an 11-23!

[Ray]

I know you can use a MTB cassette/RD with 9 speed DA, but what about the new ten speed? I imagine a gear near 30 inches would be the ticket. Again, different strokes for different folks. On my ride yesterday with Carpe Diem I rode with a 13-29 and he had an 11-23!
As someone who likes having really low gears available, the advent of Shimano's 10-speed road groups is a real drag. When it was all 9-speed (or, before that, 8), everything worked together pretty interchangeably. It was easy to stick an mtb derailure on a road bike with STI and have it all work flawlessly. Which I've done on a number of bikes. Since 9-speed STI levers are going the way of the dodo, you'll soon either have to use the cable routing trick with Campy 10-speed levers (mentioned in a post above) or use some sort of third party gizmo to adjust the cable pull. Assuming that Shimano probably won't go to ten speed with their mtb groups (what would be the point - 7 or 8 was more than enough for mountain biking and more reliable too), I'm thinking of buying up a few sets of 9-speed STI levers for future use. But I'll probably just go with Campy 10-speed levers and the cable routing trick or else just see what develops in the future.

-Ray

[ergott]

30 gear inches will give you the following cadences for a given speed. If you average 5mph, you will be at about 1:31 and almost be in the top group (sub 1:30). A 4.6mph average is 1:39 which is a very good time. You average cadence will be 50-55rpm at those speeds.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
| REVOLUTIONS PER MINUTE
SP CRxFW GI | 25 30 35 40 45 50 55
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
1> 34x29 30.83 MPH: 2.29 2.75 3.21 3.67 4.13 4.59 5.05

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
| REVOLUTIONS PER MINUTE
SP CRxFW GI | 60 65 70 75 80 0 0
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
1> 34x29 30.83 MPH: 5.50 5.96 6.42 6.88 7.34 0.00 0.00

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------


-Eric

PS I can't get the numbers to line up!

[jeffg]

Even climbing 2 miles @ 11.6% average @ 60 rpm (much less 7+ miles) requires at least a 39X29 for me, so I will try to get a 34X29 for Ventoux since it is part of a century. I find that below 60 rpm you often get to a point where you feel you could ramp it up a bit, but the extra force required to go up 5 rpm in that gear would have you at your limit. With a slightly easier gear/higher cadence I find I can hold a slightly higher power output for longer since it spares my muscles a bit.

Climbo: Mount Washington is a monster! Ventoux is longer and has greater overall vertical, but Mount Washington should be a good bit tougher assuming equivalent weather on both climbs.

[Climb01742]

jeff, to get a 34x29, are you running campy or shimano? forgive my ignorance, but on a normal road rear cluster, what's the biggest gear you can run? a 29? both campy or shimano, or only one? thanks!

[bags27]

Not trying to put words in Climb's mouth, but what he may be asking is what I need to know, too (I'm doing the Mt. Washington practice run): whether you can run a 32 or 34 cassette with a Dura-Ace or Ultegra derailleur, or whether you need to change that, too.

I know that tandems often come with that large a cassette run by a standard 105, Ultregra, or Dura-Ace deraillleur, so I'm a bit confused as to why a lot of folks say you need a derailleur with a larger range. Is there something about tandems (stay length?) that makes it work for them?
thanks.

[ergott]

You can run a 32-34 with a normal der, but the longer cage of a mtb der works better. I have used my Campy 10 rear der twice and Shimano XT once and had better results with the XT because I didn't want to cut my chain for one event. The 32-34 low gears come on a mtb cassette (11/32 or 11/34) but only 9 speeds. Campy makes a 29 cassette in 10speeds. If you have a mountain bike, you don't have to buy anything!

-Eric

[Ahneida Ride]

My LBS Guru used to hold the Master's Record. In addition, his wife
always places in the top group. They run a 1:1 ratio.

They recommend staring slow. It's a LONG ride up and the weather
completely unpredictable. You could experience 60 mph gusts in your face.

Myself ? If were to try ... I'd go with a 46/34/20 TA Zephyr triple
and a 13-29 rear cassette.

[jeffg]

jeff, to get a 34x29, are you running campy or shimano? forgive my ignorance, but on a normal road rear cluster, what's the biggest gear you can run? a 29? both campy or shimano, or only one? thanks!

Campy (on the Hampsten)! I have a 34X27 on my Shimano-equipped Legend. I would pick the gearing on that bike (48/34, 12-27) over 50/34, 13-29 for most mountainous riding, but something like Mt. Washington is a special challenge. a 34X27 requires 6.1 mph for 60 rpm, a 29X27 "only" 5.2, so either (1) be fast or (2) get very low gearing or (3) practice grinding for the better part of 2 hours!

I think you could run a custom cassette like a Cycle dynamics with a 12-28, but a 34 or 29 ring is more critical. :banana:

[spiderlake]

Not sure if it has been mentioned but this months issue of Bicycling has an article on climbing Mt. Washington. Admittedly, I have not read the article but I noticed it last night. As always, your mileage may vary but thought I'd mention it.