First time tubular recommendations

[PaulE]

This winter I'm going to build up a couple of pair of tubular wheels, so I'm trying to decide what tubular tires to try. Most of my riding has been on Vittoria Open Corsa or Continental GP 4000 clinchers. I don't think my butt is sufficiently calibrated to tell what tire I'm riding without looking. I'm considering the following tubular tires:

Vittoria Corsa Evo or Pave

Continental Sprinter - these come in 2 versions, a plain and a Gatorskin

Servizio Corse from Yellow Jersey (http://www.yellowjersey.org/tt.html)

The Vittoria's may be the best, but they are pricey.

I've read a few posts recommending the Conti Sprinters, but I'm not sure if they were referring to the plain or the Gatorskins. The price for the Conti's is cheaper than the Vittoria's.

The Servizio Corse from Yellow Jersey looks interesting, especially for the price. I'm not sure if their description is saying these tires used to be labeled as Clement and d'Allesandro, or if they are different tires that Yellow Jersey is now selling.

The wheels I'm going to build for these tubulars will be 1 pair Ambrosio Nemesis/Dura Ace 7900 hubs, 32 spokes 3 cross, and 1 pair Kinlin/White Industries hubs, 32 sokes 3 cross.

Since I need to buy at least 5 tires, including a spare, I wouldn't mind saving some money. I suppose one option would be to buy the Yellow Jersey tires as spares.

Has anyone tried these Servizio Corse tubulars from Yellow Jersey?

If I go with the Conti Sprinters, should I go with or without the Gatorskin?

And what about sealant? I've read pro's and con's about using a sealant in tubulars.

Thanks in advance for your input.

[cmg]

i have about 200 miles on the conti sprinter tubulars. there about 250 grams compared to the 300 grams for the gatorskins for about $60. the vittorias are around $82. since i'm unfamilar with tubs in general cheaper is better. the experiment continues.

[bicycletricycle]

i an wondering if there is any specific reasons why tufos are not on the list.

[oliver1850]

I'm happy with the Sprinters on my Allez.

[GuyGadois]

I have run two sprinter Gator skins in the last 12 months. Both lasted just 500 miles (rear tire) before the rubber came off from the casing. I am now trying the regular sprints and I have 1700 miles on the tire (rear) and it still has plenty of life left. Between the two choose the non-gator skin variety. If money is ot an object then get the GP4000 tubies. They are delicious.

Guy

[oldpotatoe]

This winter I'm going to build up a couple of pair of tubular wheels, so I'm trying to decide what tubular tires to try. Most of my riding has been on Vittoria Open Corsa or Continental GP 4000 clinchers. I don't think my butt is sufficiently calibrated to tell what tire I'm riding without looking. I'm considering the following tubular tires:

Vittoria Corsa Evo or Pave

Continental Sprinter - these come in 2 versions, a plain and a Gatorskin

Servizio Corse from Yellow Jersey (http://www.yellowjersey.org/tt.html)

The Vittoria's may be the best, but they are pricey.

I've read a few posts recommending the Conti Sprinters, but I'm not sure if they were referring to the plain or the Gatorskins. The price for the Conti's is cheaper than the Vittoria's.

The Servizio Corse from Yellow Jersey looks interesting, especially for the price. I'm not sure if their description is saying these tires used to be labeled as Clement and d'Allesandro, or if they are different tires that Yellow Jersey is now selling.

The wheels I'm going to build for these tubulars will be 1 pair Ambrosio Nemesis/Dura Ace 7900 hubs, 32 spokes 3 cross, and 1 pair Kinlin/White Industries hubs, 32 sokes 3 cross.

Since I need to buy at least 5 tires, including a spare, I wouldn't mind saving some money. I suppose one option would be to buy the Yellow Jersey tires as spares.

Has anyone tried these Servizio Corse tubulars from Yellow Jersey?

If I go with the Conti Sprinters, should I go with or without the Gatorskin?

And what about sealant? I've read pro's and con's about using a sealant in tubulars.

Thanks in advance for your input.

I ride almost everyday on tubulars and I use Conti Sprinters. The Gatorskin has more 'stuff' in the sidewall, also a good choice for a good tubie ride but very durable. I get maybe 2 flats per year..4000 miles or so.

I don't put goop in them, don't ride in the dirt or anywhere to get goatheads.

Gotta mention, after going thru a couple of road tubular conversions, with tape and goop, gluing on tubulars seems to be less of a mess and hassle. Particularly if you put a little stans in the tubular tube.

[Velosmith]

Lower end Tufo's S22/32 tires have worked for me. The ride is not really great but they are one tough tire.

Because they are pretty cheap when they do pop it won't break the bank.

[endosch2]

Do tubulars really have a higher flat rate than clinchers? What are peoples flat experience with Tubulars vs clinchers?

[mister]

i would ride the regular sprinter over the gatorskin.

make sure you stretch the sprinters before you glue them up. atleast a week at full pressure on an extra rim...

the vittoria pave will probably be the best riding durable tire.

[cmg]

anybody running the continental gp4000 tubular? almost got these as i run the clinchers on my other bikes.

[PETER REID]

I use Conti sprinters in the front and Tufo s33's in the rear on my winter bike. During the season i ride Schwalbe Durano's front and rear. Before i go out on them i inject them with Caffe latex from Cantitoe Road. This stuff effectively prevents punctures. Now I am replacing tires when the cord shows thru the tread, not from a punture.

It has been my experience that riding quality tires on your bike is better than riding cheap tires and trying to save money there. The quality tire will last 3-4x as long as the cheap tire. Of course your experiences may vary.

[djg]

i an wondering if there is any specific reasons why tufos are not on the list.

Where does one begin . . .

[djg]

For winter riding . . . I think that the evo Pave in a 24 offers much of what one wants in a good tire, but the extra material and volume can be pretty good riding over whatever haunts winter roads. The Conti Comp Pro-tec in a 25, if you can find it, is also a good choice -- well made tire that rides pretty well and wears great.

For all around road riding, the new 320 tpi Vittoria evo Corsa CX in a 700 x 23 is a great freaking tire that . . . well, it's not cheap, but it's not a fortune either and good prices can be found.

You don't have to spring for FMBs, but I would stay away from super budget tubular tire offerings, except maybe as spares.

Whatever you get, get one extra and have it stretching on a rim. You may not need it for a year; you may need it in a week -- when you need it, you'll have it.

[djg]

Do tubulars really have a higher flat rate than clinchers? What are peoples flat experience with Tubulars vs clinchers?

Certainly there's a structural advantage in avoiding pinch flats and my experience is that I flat less often -- maybe much less often -- riding tubular tires. That's my off-the-cuff summary of my experience, and it's worth whatever it's worth. There's no guarantee and a bad streak of luck can seem like a huge pain with any type of tire -- maybe especially with expensive tubular tires. Also, with tubular tires, small punctures can be repaired with a shot of pit stop.

[oldguy00]

Do tubulars really have a higher flat rate than clinchers? What are peoples flat experience with Tubulars vs clinchers?

?? Where did you read that??
It is quite the opposite in general. Everyone that I know who rides tubies have -far- fewer flats than those riding clinchers. Or am I misunderstanding your wording??
Keep in mind, there is no such thing as a 'pinch' flat with a tubular, so right there is a big difference. I've also seen fewer punctures with tubulars. The only thing I can think of, other than luck, is that tubular side walls are more compliant, and perhaps roll over objects easier than clinchers. Not sure, just a guess.

Tufos are generally disliked because they ride very harsh, and according to many rolling resistance tests that have been done over the years, they always seem to have the highest rolling resistance by far of any other tubular.

[itspeedmoore]

don't buy cheap tubulars, they ruin the experience. they won't go on straight and they won't ride well. there are plenty of good tubulars for sale over in the classified for much cheaper than retail. i ride FMB, vittoria pave, etc. good tires all. i keep some latex around and if they get a leak, put some latex in and you are good to go.

[StephenCL]

Okay, finally a topic that I may be able to add some value to.

1) Tubulars are very much like real tires, you get what you pay for. Going from open cx clincher, to a cheap tubular tire will be downgrading. Don't do it.

2) I would look at UK websites for buying tires. I use Ribble all the time with great success.

3) You can get the latest vittoria CX's with 320tpi from a couple of these vendors for under $60 each shipped. The Veloflex all seem to stay the same from the US and UK.

4) I have ridden conti's, veloflex and vittoria over the years with thousands of miles on each brand. They all offer their own strengths and weaknesses.

5) I only ride tubulars, my training wheels, race wheels, carbon wheels, you get the point. No clinchers. ( I have my only set of clinchers for sale in the classifieds).

6) I would recommend either a 23 or 25mm tire to really get that magic carpet ride feeling.

7) From a durability perspective. I have over 4k miles this season on tubulars with zero punctures. (yes, I just knocked on the wood door next to me). The fallacy that tubulars flat more, are hard to change, and are more expensive to ride, is just that -- a fallacy ( I think Michelin marketing is in on this one). I can change my flatted tubular faster than anyone can change a tube. (flame suit on)

8) I used to be a die-hard mastik one fan (glue), but have switched over to tape (tufo tape) during the last couple years. Will likely never go back.

9) From a feel persective, I think that the Veloflex Carbon is the best. It has a suppleness that both the Vittoria's and Conti's lack. Its a tire that makes you know you are NOT riding clinchers. There are other more expensive tires out there that are hand made, that ride just as nice. For me, I don't need to go there. The downside to Carbon's is that they don't last really long. I get about 1000-1500 miles for a rear. It is not uncommon for me to wear these down to the thread though.

10) Conti sprinter's in gator skin feel the closest to ridding a clincher of the high performance tubulars. If you want to feel what all the raving is about, DON'T go with this tire. You will be wondering what all the hype is about.

11) The Vittoria CG (also known as the pave) is a great tire for first time tubular riders. It rides very nicely, comes in a 24mm width, has great traction for both wet and dry. It is about 30 grams heavier than the standard cx, but worth the penalty. They also last pretty long. I ride this tire almost everyday. You can get them now in all black if you are not okay with the green stripe.

12) Conti competition, vittoria cx and veloflex records all feel the closest to the same for me. All are good tires with that "tubular" feel. And for under $60 per tire, you can't go wrong with the Vittoria's. Just don't forget to rough up the base tape before gluing or taping them.

Hope this helps.

Stephen

[PaulE]

Thanks for all the input. I'm thinking I'll go with either the Vittorias, Non-Gatorskins Conti's or Veloflexes. I guess I was hoping someone was going to tell me they've been using the Yellow Jersey Servizio Corse tubulars which were fantastic and that I'd discovered the secret holy grail.

For clarification, I'm going to build the tubular wheels up this winter, but don't plan to ride them till next spring. I have a spare rim for stretching, a NOS Nisi that I picked up at last Spring's Trexlertown flea market.

As for Tufo's I'm really not familiar with them other than seeing their tubular that goes on a clincher rim in the WCP catalog.

I'm going to follow the gluing method outlined across the hall using the tape from Cyclocross World.

[pbjbike]

Fewer flats with good quality tubulars! By far. And you can run them as low as you want for bad road conditions, with no pinch flats. Ride quality is far superior to the best clinchers, less rotating weight, yada yada. Vittoria CG/CX is the way to go, and you can patch them for larger punctures, unlike the Schwalb and Tufo offerings where you are relying on sealant. I've bailed out several clincher riding partners through the years, (throwing a tubie on to get them home), and converted a few by the speediness of tire changes. Get a set ready for nice days this Winter. Why wait for Spring? :beer:

[terrytnt]

Ditto for all that StephenCL....

I too have never, ever used clinchers (25 miles of cycling). That said, I did just purchase my first Tubeless Tires last year for my insider TruTrainer Rollers - Fulcrum Racing Zeros. And I must say, they are really nice. And yes, they were terrific on the road.

I, like StephenCL, ride Veloflex Carbons - absolutely wonderful road feel and handling. I can get at least half a season (3000K) on the rear and sometimes longer for I do change out my wheels.

I have a big question for StephenCL, please say more about Tufo vs. Mastik. I too have only used Mastik but struggled the last few times with the tire setting too quick making it difficult to perfectly center the tire.

Can you tell me more about Tufo tape?

thanks,

tnt

[sjauch2]

If you go with Vittoria's you must rough up the latex coating on the basetape. I didn't do this with my first set and now have 3 tires with glue and don't know what to do with them. I can hear the glue sticking and releasing as the wheels rotate.

[GuyGadois]

anybody running the continental gp4000 tubular? almost got these as i run the clinchers on my other bikes.


Yes, they are, as Chumlee says, Awesome.

Like I said, if price is no object then go with them.

Guy

[rounder]

fwiw. I was looking for wheels one day and djg suggested going british. I did and have bought a few wheelsets and parts since then. Probably would not have considered the source before that. Anway, djg has some good ideas. Thanks djg.

Certainly there's a structural advantage in avoiding pinch flats and my experience is that I flat less often -- maybe much less often -- riding tubular tires. That's my off-the-cuff summary of my experience, and it's worth whatever it's worth. There's no guarantee and a bad streak of luck can seem like a huge pain with any type of tire -- maybe especially with expensive tubular tires. Also, with tubular tires, small punctures can be repaired with a shot of pit stop.

[StephenCL]

Ditto for all that StephenCL....

I too have never, ever used clinchers (25 miles of cycling). That said, I did just purchase my first Tubeless Tires last year for my insider TruTrainer Rollers - Fulcrum Racing Zeros. And I must say, they are really nice. And yes, they were terrific on the road.

I, like StephenCL, ride Veloflex Carbons - absolutely wonderful road feel and handling. I can get at least half a season (3000K) on the rear and sometimes longer for I do change out my wheels.

I have a big question for StephenCL, please say more about Tufo vs. Mastik. I too have only used Mastik but struggled the last few times with the tire setting too quick making it difficult to perfectly center the tire.

Can you tell me more about Tufo tape?

thanks,

tnt

Sure, Tufo tubular tape is a tape for affixing your tubulars. It comes in a normal and an extreme version. Yellow and Orange boxes respectively. I only use the Orange box extreme tape. It is softer and I think it creates a better bond at any temp.

One side peels off and attaches to the rim, you then slide the tire on inflate it all the way, center the tire and then pull the backing tape from the tire side. Takes less than 10 min from start to finish.

Stephen

[terrytnt]

StephenCL, this is most intriguing to me. I get how you (1) prepare rim... removing old glue and cleaning, (2) place the tufo tape down the inside center after removing the protective backing, but then you said mount tire and center BEFORE removing the tape. I love that idea because you can PERFECTLY center the tire on the rim (without it adhering). BUT, how do you remove the tape (from the other side of the tufo) once the tire is form-fitted on the rim? I'm trying to imagine this action and can't quite see it. Wouldn't the tire be so snug on the 'centered rim' that you couldn't remove the tape?

[oldpotatoe]

Do tubulars really have a higher flat rate than clinchers? What are peoples flat experience with Tubulars vs clinchers?

Old wives tale. All things being equal, you will get less flats with a tubie because you don't really get a pinch flat on under inflated tires when ya hit something.

[oldguy00]

Yes, they are, as Chumlee says, Awesome.

Like I said, if price is no object then go with them.

Guy

I love the GP4000 tubies as well. The way they are constructed makes them seat straight on the rim very easily. They don't seem to have as high/round a profile as other tubulars, and I'm not sure if that is a bad thing, but they seem to go on, and ride really nice.
I have a new set of Cosmic Carbone Pro Powertap wheels coming, and I'm going with the GP4000's for them.

[cmg]

StephenCL, this is most intriguing to me. I get how you (1) prepare rim... removing old glue and cleaning, (2) place the tufo tape down the inside center after removing the protective backing, but then you said mount tire and center BEFORE removing the tape. I love that idea because you can PERFECTLY center the tire on the rim (without it adhering). BUT, how do you remove the tape (from the other side of the tufo) once the tire is form-fitted on the rim? I'm trying to imagine this action and can't quite see it. Wouldn't the tire be so snug on the 'centered rim' that you couldn't remove the tape?

both sides of the tufo tape have a clear film on it protecting the glue from exposure. you peel the protective tape off the "rim side" of the tape and place. Before you mount the tubie you peel the protective tape about 2" off to one side of the rim to use as a starting point, mount tire and center it, then inflate, then peel off the protective tape underneath it grabbing the 2" strip you left hang off to one side of the rim. here's a youtube video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ac_QFWLiUDE

[socalspeedsk8r]

Some really good comments and suggestions made already but thought to add my two cents as a tubular only rider. Like Stephen, I train and race on tubulars and have never in my life ridden clinchers. I ride about 12k a year and probably flat 2-3 times a year and by then the tire has out lived its usefulness anyway.

I only use Caffelatex sealant as in my experience it simply works the best. I run it in both training and racing tires. The Veloflex carbon is my preference to race on. A great tire with great feel, grip and durability. One tire not mentioned that I have been training on this year is the Challenge Criterium. Its a 300 tpi, 270gr tire that I have been averaging 3-4k and has a better feel than the Gatorskins on the road. I picked up a a few sets from the Pro's Closet for about $60 a set. Pretty good deal on a decent tire to train on.

One tire that I would absolutely not recommend is the Kenda Volar. The first set came without removable valve cores and the replacement set they sent me hardly lasted to the end of my driveway. Both tires completely destroyed in under 400 miles.

Scott

[terrytnt]

Thanks CMG, I totally understand and the Youtube helped me visualize. I CAN'T BELIEVE I'VE BEEN USING MASTIK ALL THESE YEARS.

One final question, in those very few incidences when a flat does happen, is changing the tire with Tufo different/ easier than a rim with Mastik?

many thanks guys!!!

[aoe]

Great thread guys....extremely insightful and helpful.

[thwart]

One final question, in those very few incidences when a flat does happen, is changing the tire with Tufo different/ easier than a rim with Mastik?
I'd also like to know what is the magic way to remove flats that are Tufo taped on. My one experience with this was truly awful (think screwdriver...). That rim did have some old glue on it.

[TAW]

It might be worth noting that Zipp does not recommend Tufo tape. I believe they claim it strips the carbon fibers, and so using it might affect any warranty.

I've been running the Zipp tubular tires, and they have a very nice ride. Pretty soft and supple, easy to mount. I also have some of the Continentals on another set, and they ride pretty well, but not as smooth feeling as the Zipps.

[rbtmcardle]

I too ride only tubulars, Veloflex Carbons all the time, and as previously stated, the ride is sublime.. one caution, if you want a tubular feel, do not over inflate, tire pressure has a large impact on ride quality. I generally ride mine around 110 PSI. As far as changing a tire on the road. I need to use a tire lever to get the removal started and then work the rest of it off by hand. I dont pre glue the spare ahead of time and generally speaking there is enough tackiness on the rim to hold the spare on (i live in the flatlands of south jersey, so i dont worry about high speed descents) I typically will just continue to ride the spare without reapplying tape.

Interesting about Zipp (i did not check it out), Reynolds actually recommends using the Tufo extreme tape on their carbon rims.

[terrytnt]

I've only used Veloflex Carbons. This year, thanks to you guys, I'm going to try Extreme Tufo tape, pass on the Mastik and was thinking about trying the GP4000s.

Can some one who's familiar with both, tell me the pro's/con's. I'm a 170 lb cyclist who REALLY appreciates a plush comfortable ride (cycle 6K per year). I don't race, but ride seriously with groups.

many thanks,