Head tube Issue with a Merckx Ti frame

[hockeybike]

Hi all, I've been browsing for a bit and figured this might be a good place to post an issue I have with a frame I just bought.

I found a Merckx EX Pro Titanium frame on craigslist in a different city. After a bunch of emails with the seller, I convinced him to post the bike on ebay for a BIN that we agreed on. He noted some issues in the CL ad and was very honest about most of the condition of the bike. The most glaring issue is a small dent on the inside of the right chain stay--likely from a poorly installed rear wheel (skewer wasn't tight or slipped or something), but it's really a very minor issue.

However, after finally getting the headset I needed (a 1" chris king), I noticed that the headtube had been cut--and poorly at that. The headtube is a short one to begin with (probably 11.5 or 12cm) and the "cut" tube is only 11.43cm and uneven. The head tube at just about the top of the weld where the tube connects to the top tube. Does anyone have any experience with an issue like this?

Is it worth keeping the frame if a shop says its useable, or should I just try to send it back to the seller? I have a feeling that even if I can get it refaced, the resale value of the frame will be no where near what it should be.

[Peter B]

Too bad about the undisclosed condition but it can be fixed. Did you buy the bike to ride it or flip it? Will the fit work for you with the existing HT length? If so, and you got a good deal, then consider keeping it. If not, return it. Regardless, consider negotiating with the seller for some of the repair cost.

There are any number of builders experienced with this repair. Squaring, reaming and facing the tube isn't a big deal. Where are you located?

[hockeybike]

I definitely didn't pay much for the frame--it was more at first, but then reduced after the seller admitted to goofing on not measuring the head tube and stating that it was a 1.125" instead of 1"--and judging from what the AX is going for on ebay, I got a steal.

I bought the bike to ride for a while, but I never like the idea of sitting on something that's unsellable.

As far as fit, my current bike has 13cm headtube and has about 10mm of spacers, so w/ a 1" steerer tube and about 25mm of spacers and a 28mm stack height for the headset, I'll be at about the same drop, but will be pushing the limits of adjustability w/ spacers (as in, no more upwards adjustability if I stay w/ a carbon steerer from what I understand).

Edit--I'm located in Washington, Dc.

[Peter B]

Sounds like you're not at a $$ loss.

Sounds like you can get adequate and safe saddle-to-bar drop w/ current (f'd up) HT.

OK. Fix the HT and disclose on (if) future sale. So let's find a good builder in DC who's comfy squaring, reaming and facing a ti HT.

Ferris, Ferris?

[lhuerta]

Could you post a pic of the frame so we can get a better idea of what you are describing. If the faces are uneven (sounds like they are) most good shops will be able to face it, however, that will all depend on how much headtube they actually have to work with. Just curious, did the knucklehead seller explain exactly how/why he cut the headtube?? As far as adding spacers to your carbon fork setup, the max recommend spacers varies by fork manufacturer....I have seen a range from 25-40mm of allowable spacers below the stem.

LH

[nahtnoj]

When you sell the bike in the future, advertise it as being more "PRO" with the shorter HT.

Seriously though, I might be inclined to just send it back, unless the seller is willing to pay for all the costs associated with a proper repair. I think Spectrum charges around $200 to cut, ream, and face a HT. Add shipping, and I bet you are now at 75% of what you paid for the frame.

[hockeybike]

Well, Gita has no charts on the head tube, so no real way of knowing how long it should have been unless someone else has a 54cm Merckx EX Lying around (54.8 TT). I'll post some pics later.

[hockeybike]

Here's a pic of the headtube:

http://lh6.ggpht.com/_4wHydz_kdeM/TLiFjHQZLRI/AAAAAAAACpo/Bzf9fmw3Gxs/s720/headtube2.jpg

Here's another pic showing how close the tube is cut to the welds...is this abnormal?

http://lh3.ggpht.com/_4wHydz_kdeM/TLiFjCdChfI/AAAAAAAACpg/fJ5V5d1eGig/s512/headtube1.jpg

Going to go to a shop to see what they say...

[MerckxMad]

I have a 54 Majestic and while I don't have the HT measurement, I can tell you that based on the photo, you've got one messed up frame. I'm guessing that when you install the top race, it's gonna sit on the weld and likely touch the TT. I don't think it's a structural issue, but with a 1'' steerer, you'll probably max out on the spacers. If that's what I pulled out of the box, I'd drop it back in and send it back to the seller. It's a shame because the EX/AX are truly great framesets.

[nahtnoj]

Send it back.

There is material missing from both the top and the bottom of the head tube.

[hockeybike]

Yep. You're both right--shop said that it was refaced poorly at some point and that because of the dip in the front, it would have to be refaced again, this time cutting even further into the welds, which the shop said was a no go. Damn shame, the frame was beautiful.

I called Lynskey about it and was quoted 350 (really 450 w/ shipping both ways) for a new head tube, which when combined with the cost of the frame is more than I want to pay for something with potentially lowered re-sale value (especially since I'd rather ride a 54 or 53.5 than a 54.8 w/ a 90 stem)

On the upside, the seller is one of those rare individuals who stands by what he sells on craigslist/ebay and agreed to refund the money. He never built up the frame, so he never realized this was an issue. Whoever actually did this to the frame is a moron. Why you'd go at a Merckx Ti w/ a heavy hand is beyond me.

So I guess I'm in the market for a Ti frame again. The only problem is that now that I've had an EX in my hands I won't want to go with anything lower end...

[avalonracing]

That would make for one hell of an integrated headset. Integrated right into the top and down tubes.

[spartacus]

Send it back. It's not in merchantable condition.

[hockeybike]

Already refunded and on the way back--who knows, maybe the seller will be able to get something back from the original seller. Thanks for the help, all. Onto the bike classifieds I go...

[bike22]

looks fine to me, i'd ride it.

[phcollard]

I believe it's already back on eBay :
http://cgi.ebay.com/54cm-Eddy-Merckx-Ex-Ti-frame-/330485246339?pt=Road_Bikes&hash=item4cf274a983

Is that the one?

[bobswire]

Could some head tube inserts work? I would imagine a frame builder could make a couple of neat inserts for both the top and bottom.
It's salvageable and can be a decent rider though its resale value is diminished.

10 to 1 the original owner had a fork that he cut too short and didn't want to spend the money on a new one so he cut down the HT......... :crap:

[tuscanyswe]

I can understand cutting the top of but the bottom? Thats just madness!

[tmessenger]

That frame is junk IMO, how do you sleeve in a spacer with a 1" fork ? I really hope that anyone that buys that frame understands they are buying a wall hanging.

[zap]

snip

So I guess I'm in the market for a Ti frame again. The only problem is that now that I've had an EX in my hands I won't want to go with anything lower end...

That would not be too hard.

The frame you had was a litespeed and if it had bullet stay's, was not going to last that much longer.

Look for a used Serotta Legend. Soild product and a great company.

[avalonracing]

snip



That would not be too hard.

The frame you had was a litespeed and if it had bullet stay's, was not going to last that much longer.

Look for a used Serotta Legend. Soild product and a great company.

There is some truth to that. While the Merckx was a decent and very ride/race worthy frame you can fine many, many good deals are frames that are a bit more, should we say, "nice"