Rival 10 - Ultegra 9 downgrade?

[bike22]

I'm thinking of downgrading the group on my road bike from rival 10 to ultegra 6500 9speed.

Am I crazy to want to do this?

For all the hype sram 10 has recieved, I'm not really a fan of it. The front shifting sucks, I really don't like how the shift cables are routed under the handlebar tape- particularly because where the housing exits from the lever body it creates this bulge that irritates my palm (this is hard to describe).

Granted I don't have that many miles on the setup.

Am I alone in preferring 9speed shimano over 10 speed rival?

Please don't suggest campy.

[thegunner]

first off, no you're not alone. ultegra 9 and 7700 DA were two of the smoothest groupsets i've ever used. buttery would be the only word to describe it.

but... i wouldn't make the switch. front shifting shouldn't be bad (mate it with a 7800 FD and i'd wonder if you feel the same way), and the rear on rival is crisp. very crisp. if the only thing that bothers you is the cable routing (and yes i know what you mean), trying a more supple tape, fizik-gel comes to mind, makes it much less noticeable. also if you route both cables to the front of the bar, or from the side to the bottom, the bulge isn't really even noticeable.

i wouldn't call you crazy for wanting to switch, but i feel like you should play around with it before throwing in the towel.

[GuyGadois]

Please don't suggest campy.

Just curious, is it because of having to buy new wheels?

[platbr]

For all the hype sram 10 has recieved, I'm not really a fan of it. The front shifting sucks, I really don't like how the shift cables are routed under the handlebar tape- particularly because where the housing exits from the lever body it creates this bulge that irritates my palm (this is hard to describe).

There is at least one "different" way to route the cables, which might help you out. I went from Campy to Shimano to SRAM ... and now all three of my bikes are SRAM. There is a definite art to getting the bar tape and padding "just right" around the shifter. If you get it right (an extra wrap where the cables exit) it's really quite comfortable. But I do completely understand what you're saying.

Let me make one suggestion before you switch. Get a set of Gore Ride-On cables. SRAM Red ships with the Ride-On cables, and my Red shifting is smooth and feathery light. It's wonderful... my backup crit bike is Force, and my CX bike is Rival. Both were noticeably different (stiffer) at first, but benefited from some cable routing & lubrication finesse. Gore cables are the hole grail. Consider giving them a try; if you're not a master mechanic ... letting the pros do the setup (i.e., a real pro shop, not just the random shop down the street). A little kink in the housing, adding some stiffness, can cause issues.

I really love the Rival stuff. My first cross bike had Rival shifters (2010) and Force derailleurs ... something about the combo was perhaps the best I've ever had. That said, my wife's bike came with 2009 Rival (which she hated) and I switched it out for Ultegra 6700.

[vqdriver]

i don't have as many miles on sram as others, but i have noticed that it's not that tolerant of cable friction. as others have said, play around with the cabling if the front shifting is that bad. it doesn't have to be.

[Lifecycle]

Am I crazy to want to do this?

Your probably not crazy
I have Both the Force and a 7801 groups
and the new 2010 sram stuff is definetly stiffer in the shift department than say the 08 or 09 sram stuff and maybe thats due to useage. I notice the front derailuer has to be just in the right position to get good results and I supose that goes for the rear as well. Cables do make a huge difference to the whole package (personally I like the Gore cables)
I also love the buttery smooth of the reliable DA shimano stuff too.
Its always a pleasure ride going back to the DA stuff.

For me it would be just a personal preference. LOL.

[learlove]

I had rival on a cdale caad9 last year and swapped it for ultegra. like you i wasn't impressed.

[oldpotatoe]

I'm thinking of downgrading the group on my road bike from rival 10 to ultegra 6500 9speed.

Am I crazy to want to do this?

For all the hype sram 10 has recieved, I'm not really a fan of it. The front shifting sucks, I really don't like how the shift cables are routed under the handlebar tape- particularly because where the housing exits from the lever body it creates this bulge that irritates my palm (this is hard to describe).

Granted I don't have that many miles on the setup.

Am I alone in preferring 9speed shimano over 10 speed rival?

Please don't suggest campy.

Of the shimano levers I have warrantied, I have warrantied 7700 and 6500 the most. Many failures that the STI repair kit'(flushing them out) did not fix. I would suggest 7800 or 6600 if you don't want the bump under your hand. Still 10s so you could use you existing cogset/chain.

I agree with you about sram...poor front shifting, poor long term shifting, poor chainring, BB bearing, pulley bearing longevity. I just rebuilt a Kestrel with red and barend shifters(tri bike) and even with those the front der(red) was very flexy, poor. Gore cable are OK when new(expensive) but when the stuff on the cable starts to fray, then shifting goes to hell.

[mike p]

I wouldn't consider it a downgrade at all. Just personal preference.

Mike

[johnnymossville]

ultegra is great stuff. I'd use it over Dura-Ace if cost/performance is in the equation.

[Bob Loblaw]

I agree with you about sram...poor front shifting, poor long term shifting, poor chainring, BB bearing, pulley bearing longevity. I just rebuilt a Kestrel with red and barend shifters(tri bike) and even with those the front der(red) was very flexy, poor. Gore cable are OK when new(expensive) but when the stuff on the cable starts to fray, then shifting goes to hell.

+1 on Gore not being the end-all-be-all. There may or may not be a perceptible difference between these and normal cables when new, but when they fail, everything goes to hell, including braking.

I have limited experience working on SRAM, but on one of the bikes, the right side shifter is failing after two years of hard use, probably around 15-16k miles.

I like the Shimano 9 speed stuff. I still use the Ultegra 6500 levers I bought back in '03 on my randonee bike. The shifting gets sticky every four years or so. I just flip the bike over, apply a flash of WD40 or light oil to the mechanism, let it soak in overnight to loosen the grease, and it's fine.

IMO, Shimano took a step backwards in design by routing the cables under the bar tape like Campy and SRAM. The shifting on 7800/6600 was relentlessly excellent, even if the cables were neglected. Now it's much more sensitive to cable condition and routing, and I see no advantage other than aesthetics.

BL

[dd74]

I have used 7700 and 7800, and believe 7800 is smoother and more responsive than 7700. So if you can find a 7800 group, you might want to purchase that.

As to 7900, I agree that other than aesthetics, there seems to be nothing new about the group. In fact, I've heard the internal cabling takes away some of the smooth shifting 7800 was known for.

Even today during a ride, I was thinking how I like the exposed cables on 7800 because they give my hands something to play with during long rides. You can almost have an additional hand position with the cables.

[Marcusaurelius]

I've never been a big fan of the octalink bottom bracket or 6500 sti levers. I think the 10 speed 6600 was a better system. I've never used Rival but I've used 6500 many times and 7700 once.

[bicyclego]

I went from Ultegra 9 to U10 to SRAM Rival when it first came out. I could not go back to Shimano...well, Iwould notwantto go back to Shimano. I've used Force and now Red. form the system is much more intuitive. I mis-shift every now-and-again, but did so with Shimano too. I love the speed and crisp action of SRAM.

[dd74]

I've heard SRAM is really "loud." What does that mean?

[bike22]

thanks all for the comments- this was mainly a place for me to get all my thoughts out.

i really like the crisp rear shifts rival has, but i think the other things that bug me about rival outweigh it.

i'm not interested in 7800 or any of that jazz- not necessary for my application and even a well-used group is not even remotely close to my budget.

i'm not really a fan of 7700, but, admittedly, i haven't spent much time riding it. seems like 6500 offers 90%+ the performance at a significant discount and increased lifespan. diminishing returns, yo.

i'll guess i'll have to put some more miles on my setup and then make a decision.

[zray67]

Ultegra 6500 is all I use on my 3 geared bikes. I can "play" with various
cassettes, chain rings and once I have the time and money go to a compact
crank on at least one of the bikes. What's not to like about the 6500 group!

[oliver1850]

.

[Bob Loblaw]

i'm not interested in 7800 or any of that jazz- not necessary for my application and even a well-used group is not even remotely close to my budget

i'll guess i'll have to put some more miles on my setup and then make a decision.

SRAM and Shimano are completely cross-compatible. All you'd need are the 7800 or 6600 shifters and leave everything else as is.

BL

[rice rocket]

SRAM and Shimano are completely cross-compatible. All you'd need are the 7800 or 6600 shifters and leave everything else as is.

BL

Pretty sure that's not the case.


http://weightweenies.starbike.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=36855&start=0

[WickedWheels]

SRAM and Shimano are completely cross-compatible. All you'd need are the 7800 or 6600 shifters and leave everything else as is.

BL

The rear derailleur needs to be swapped out as well. Slightly different actuation leverages. Chain, cassette, crankset... those should work well enough.

[TAW]

Absolutely not a downgrade. 9 speed shimano sets up easy, works great, shifts smoothly and runs well. I work on sram stuff and it runs noisily and seems to require more maintenance.

[bike22]

yep- thanks all.
you've swayed me, glad to hear i'm not the only one who is not into the sram kool-aid.

not interested in 6600 or 7800- 9 speeds is plenty!

[dd74]

SRAM cassettes with Shimano are a bit sketchy, IMO. I had a 12-26 Rival cassette and when hooked up to my DA, shifting wasn't nearly as good as when a Shimano cassette is used.

[Bob Loblaw]

The rear derailleur needs to be swapped out as well. Slightly different actuation leverages. Chain, cassette, crankset... those should work well enough.

I stand corrected.

[benb]

Yep add me to the list... I rode Rival for 10k miles and then upgraded back to Ultegra...

The Rival stuff was falling apart so it was either buy more SRAM or go back to Shimano, easy decision.

I've got an equal # of miles on the Ultegra now and it all works like the day I bought it. No contest at all.