A must have set of wheels?

[bobswire]

O.K. I already have a couple of sets of Mavic OPs, some light weight Kinlan/Velocity and Neuvations but is it really worthwhile having a set of carbon clinchers ? If so what do you suggest?
I don't race so. Just like taking self inflicted punishing rides and every once in awhile a nice long leisurely ride.

[jbrainin]

Unless you need 65mm deep rims, there's no real advantage to carbon clinchers. I use a pair of Campy Hyperon Ultras on my Meivici and while they are no lighter than the Nimble Spiders I have on my Legend, they provide significantly worse braking than the Nimbles.

If you have to go for carbon wheels, bite the bullet and get carbon tubulars. There's still diminished braking performance, but at least you save some significant weight versus aluminum rimmed wheels. (Plus they will handle better than the rest of your wheelsets.)

[1centaur]

Disagree. You can get more aero for the weight with carbon clinchers than alu clinchers, and you can feel it. Plus the wheels feel different, which can be a nice variation.

I'd go over 40mm section to feel some aero benefit. Edge clinchers get the nod from most, though I've thought my Reynolds DV46C clinchers were a bit more comfortable. 303s/404s are nice enough wheels if you want the alu brake track but there you will pick up weight vs. your existing wheels and that might be a bummer, whereas Edge/Enve at 1410ish (their rims reportedly have been made heavier lately) is still on the light end for an alu clincher but you pick up over 20mm of section depth.

[tv_vt]

Not that I've tried them, but what about the Mavic Cosmic Carbones? 52mm deep rims, alu braking surface, seem to have very good reputation, not too expensive (on sale in various places lately)...

[crownjewelwl]

Sounds like you already have some nice wheels...

I think once you get into the realm of good product made by reputable manufacturers/builders it becomes harder to notice the beneift of spending more for the latest and greatest.

I got carbon clinchers recently and while I love the way they look, I can't say with much certainty that they've significantly improved my riding (speed, comfort, etc.). And any purported benefit has certainly been lost by the 5 pounds I've gained since the end of the summer!

Now if you have 2% body fat and ride 6 hours a day, you'll probably notice the 0.5% differences.

But if you WANT a set of carbon clincher, by all means get them!

[oldpotatoe]

Not that I've tried them, but what about the Mavic Cosmic Carbones? 52mm deep rims, alu braking surface, seem to have very good reputation, not too expensive (on sale in various places lately)...

Crappy rear hub. If ya gotta get carbon clinchers, at least get a wheelset with a better hubset.

For the OP, there are test ride programs out there. I'd say try 'em before you buy. May like them, may not. Some have a big effect on ride quality, sometimes not a good effect.

[bobswire]

Appreciate the replies. When I see all the great rides I noticed quite a few of you have carbon wheels (reynolds, edge, etc) and wondered aloud what is the benefit (other than looking great) besides TT or crits?
I admit it's more of a lust craving than to fulfill any real need.
Every so often I see a good deal (Bonktown) for Reynolds Assault or Attack as well Reynolds MV32 C UL, my heart says "go for it" my bank account say "nay".
Nay usually rules the day. :argue:

[djg]

Appreciate the replies. When I see all the great rides I noticed quite a few of you have carbon wheels (reynolds, edge, etc) and wondered aloud what is the benefit (other than looking great) besides TT or crits?
I admit it's more of a lust craving than to fulfill any real need.
Every so often I see a good deal (Bonktown) for Reynolds Assault or Attack as well Reynolds MV32 C UL, my heart says "go for it" my bank account say "nay".
Nay usually rules the day. :argue:

I've snagged a couple of the serious discount deals. IMO, there's no "must have" wheelset, except the first wheelset that's round and true. Which is not to say that this or that isn't cool or whatever.

Cross -- I have a set of Reynolds DV46T Cross build wheels and I really like them -- light, solid, dependable, solid handling, and a decent rim bed. I don't use them in all conditions, and I cannot tell you that they make me noticeably faster, but they feel great on spin-up, seem to have a nice brake track, and I've had narry a problem with them. Paid less than half of retail. No regrets at all. Good wheels with road tires too.

Road -- here's where the impulse web deal took over: nabbed a pair of Reynolds attack wheels for 5-something. Had the rear rebuilt around a power tap hub. Fairly light -- but not super light, or even close to today's version of super light -- seems like a strong dependable wheel and I've found the braking to be good with good pads. I have no complaints about these wheels -- very good clinchers. OTOH, there's no huge aero advantage for a TT, and it's just not clear to me that you couldn't get comparable performance from all sorts of builds that cost way, way less than the retail on these things. I like the wheels. I prefer them to all sorts of possible choices. But more than a grand? Not sure.

Your budget constraints are yours of course.

[bike22]

open pro/ultegra. 32spoke.

if racing go 28 spoke, dura ace hubs.

[Johnnyg]

Edge clinchers with Swiss DT hubs have been good to me for a year now. Good luck. JG

[regularguy412]

Appreciate the replies. When I see all the great rides I noticed quite a few of you have carbon wheels (reynolds, edge, etc) and wondered aloud what is the benefit (other than looking great) besides TT or crits?
I admit it's more of a lust craving than to fulfill any real need.
Every so often I see a good deal (Bonktown) for Reynolds Assault or Attack as well Reynolds MV32 C UL, my heart says "go for it" my bank account say "nay".
Nay usually rules the day. :argue:


Find a LBS or a good friend who has a GOOD set of light, aero tubular wheels (Edge, Reynolds, Easton, etc.) and go ride them.

You'll feel the difference. Don't blame me if you get spoiled. I certainly did. When my old set of Campy Record Crono tubular wheels finally bit the dust, it didn't take me long to realize just how much I appreciated a really nice wheel set. I'll not be as fast as I once was. Nor will I ever be a great climber. But I can still appreciate how much fun it makes riding the bicycle.

Mike in AR:beer:

[oldguy00]

Don't look at your average speed, because it likely won't be any higher, or at lest not much. But deep carbon wheels do -feel- pretty cool to ride. And if the look of them will make you want to ride your bike more, then go for it.
I think one of the nicest carbon clinchers out there is the Easton EC90 SL, but it is not as deep as some of the others. Probikekit has a few of the Reynolds carbon clinchers for about 1100.
Of course, if money is no object, the new all carbon Zipp 404's are damn nice looking!

[regularguy412]

Don't look at your average speed, because it likely won't be any higher, or at lest not much. But deep carbon wheels do -feel- pretty cool to ride. And if the look of them will make you want to ride your bike more, then go for it.
I think one of the nicest carbon clinchers out there is the Easton EC90 SL, but it is not as deep as some of the others. Probikekit has a few of the Reynolds carbon clinchers for about 1100.
Of course, if money is no object, the new all carbon Zipp 404's are damn nice looking!


These are the ones I chose. :) Best bang for the buck, IMHO. ( Tho I did catch them on sale for barely over $1K)

Mike in AR:beer:

[pbjbike]

Hand built tubular wheels rule! Get tied and soldered rear. If you haven't gone to the other side yet, with your other wheelsets, it's time. Better ride, better performance, (with quality tires), and easy to fix, IMO. A light, tubular
AL rimmed wheelset will be equal to/better than the performance of carbon clinchers, and cost far less, JMO. No yellow or cork pads to switch out....IF you get a flat, (remember you can run tubbies down LOW without pinch-flats), you can be back on the road in 2 minutes or less. :)

[Marco]

Have been riding a set of used Bontrager XXX Lite carbon clinchers since about May and love them. I can't compare them to other carbon wheels since these are my first and only. I definitely feel a difference.

[sevencyclist]

Ergott built wheels worked very well for me. Have not needed truing after close to 3 years.

As for speed; well, my motor has not put out enough to notice a huge difference.

[fogrider]

get the lightest carbon tubulars you can afford! I got a set that is less than 1,200 grams and the acceleration is incredible! if you do time trails, you want aero, but with super light weight, super light is the way to go.

I ride aluminum wheels on the weekdays, and on the weekend, I'm on the carbon tubies and I feel a big difference. train hard during the week and go fast on the weekend.

[SpeedyChix]

You've got some fine light clinchers. Some nice light carbon tubulars would be a real treat. They ride really really nice!

[mikki]

Pardon my ignorance, but I learn so much here. Is the experience very different between carbon tubulars and carbon clinchers?

[swimmingskibble]

I think the experience between tubulars and clinchers is way different. I was hesitant at first to try out a set of tubulars (borrowed a friends for a tri). My first experience was outstanding! I think they roll much nicer, corner better, and accelerate much better. Now, I only own one set of clinchers for long touring rides, and and all the rest are tubulars (3 sets.)

[dd74]

Subscribing...

[John H.]

What is not perfect about the Open Pro wheels? Especialliy since you do not race. The Open Pro rides nice and is quite durable. I was going to suggest a well built (good builder and sensible spoking 14/15 3x) Open Pro or DT RR465 with DT hubs (or campy or shimano).
Short story- I was riding a pair of Rolf Vigor wheels for about the last 6 months. Rim cracked and spokes pulled through leaving wheel barely rideable.
I was at least 10 miles from home with no cell phone. This would not have happened with the sensible wheel! I only weigh 145 lb. and the wheels have not been crashed or abused at all.
Durability is key, repairability is key- I had neither with the Rolf Vigor I was riding.

[AndrewS]

Hand built tubular wheels rule! Get tied and soldered rear. If you haven't gone to the other side yet, with your other wheelsets, it's time. Better ride, better performance, (with quality tires), and easy to fix, IMO. A light, tubular
AL rimmed wheelset will be equal to/better than the performance of carbon clinchers, and cost far less, JMO. No yellow or cork pads to switch out....IF you get a flat, (remember you can run tubbies down LOW without pinch-flats), you can be back on the road in 2 minutes or less. :)
No respectable wheel builder would tie and solder a wheel anymore. That practice was based on a misunderstanding of spoke dynamics, and it makes repairs extremely difficult. It might look nice with wood rims, though.

Tubulars have greater rolling resistance than clinchers and their spare is heavy enough to remove any weight advantage. But, people do like the ride, and you can lower the pressure if you want to.

[Ozz]

What is not perfect about the Open Pro wheels? Especialliy since you do not race. The Open Pro rides nice and is quite durable. I was going to suggest a well built (good builder and sensible spoking 14/15 3x) Open Pro or DT RR465 with DT hubs (or campy or shimano).....
+1

OP rims with good hubs and 32 spokes are the only "must" have wheels....they do everything 99% of us need a wheel to do.

All other are specialty wheels (lighter, stronger, or more aero) or for the sake of "bling"! Not that there is anything wrong with that.... ;) I would love a set of Campy Boras. I am sure I would enjoy riding them, but they would also be wasted on me.

:beer:

[oldpotatoe]

+1

OP rims with good hubs and 32 spokes are the only "must" have wheels....they do everything 99% of us need a wheel to do.

All other are specialty wheels (lighter, stronger, or more aero) or for the sake of "bling"! Not that there is anything wrong with that.... ;) I would love a set of Campy Boras. I am sure I would enjoy riding them, but they would also be wasted on me.

:beer:

With the joint and noise problem of OpenPros, I think DT465 or 415 are much better rims.

BTW-I tie and solder on occasion. For non drive side, with a deformed(bent) rim, it reduces spoke movement at the hub flange reducing the possibility of a broken spoke. I also T&S some MTB disc wheels since the torque is very high with discs. I also T&S lots of track wheels to prevent a spoke from flying around if one breaks. Truing and repairing is easy since the spokes are stainless.

Not trying to start any argument here Andrew, but I think self respect has little to do with something as simple as tying and soldering a bicycle wheel.

I do love tubulars and the advantage has nothing to do with rolling resistance. Safety, cornering, comfort...all advantages.

[R2D2]

......I do love tubulars and the advantage has nothing to do with rolling resistance. Safety, cornering, comfort...all advantages.

and rotational weight during climbs and accelerations...........
Only added this because it is an important difference.

[weatherman]

I think the experience between tubulars and clinchers is way different. I was hesitant at first to try out a set of tubulars (borrowed a friends for a tri). My first experience was outstanding! I think they roll much nicer, corner better, and accelerate much better. Now, I only own one set of clinchers for long touring rides, and and all the rest are tubulars (3 sets.)

My experience--had a set of Edge 1.0/DT 190 wheels built by my local builder (top notch) and rode them for 1/2 a season or so on the road. Yes, they were smooth, cornered well etc. All the things you hear about tubulars. I ended up having an issue with one of my Edge (Enve now I guess) rims and they were very good about it and agreed to replace my rim. In reality, I had been waiting for the clinchers, but got impatient and went tubular. By this time, the clincher rims were available.

So, I called up XXXX (name removed to protect him so you all don't crush him with calls) at Edge and told him what I really wanted was to return my defective rim and my other "used" rim and have him send me two new clincher rims. He said sure--wow, talk about customer service!

So, had my wheels rebuilt with the new rims--exact same DT190 hubs. Now running clinchers though. While I can't say the ride is "quite" as nice as the tubulars, its still a vast improvement over the stock wheels, Ksyriums etc of the world. Wheels ride smoothly, accelerate well, braking is actually pretty decent (not so much when wet) etc. The kicker, for me, I don't have to ride around with a spare tire strapped to the bike or in my jersey pocket and the fear of changing a tubular on a ride when/if I flat.

For me (not a serious road racer--I race cx and mtb occasionally), I feel like I get 90+% of the tubular ride/benefit (pick good tires) on my carbon clinchers and have 0% of the tubular hassle. To me, thats a no brainer. Sure, the tubular wheelset was a bit lighter, but my current wheels are still ridiculously light in the scheme of things.

Sure, your mileage may vary, but the hassle of going tubular just wasn't worth it to me. (Note--I subscribe to the theory of one wheelset on the bike and ride it all the time--if you want to run tubulars on race day etc thats a totally different discussion and I can certainly understand/appreciate that approach.)

Just my $0.02.

[oldpotatoe]

and rotational weight during climbs and accelerations...........
Only added this because it is an important difference.

Well, really really small difference, that weight on the rim/tire either being there or not. Like .1 of 1% energy required difference for doubling the weight.

I think that most that 'feel' better acceleration is due to wheel stiffness(carbon rims) rather than weight.

[R2D2]

Well, really really small difference, that weight on the rim/tire either being there or not. Like .1 of 1% energy required difference for doubling the weight.

I think that most that 'feel' better acceleration is due to wheel stiffness(carbon rims) rather than weight.

OK. I think every little bit helps on really long climbs when you are in a state of acceleration for long periods fighting the effects of gravity.
But if it just feels good I'm open to it.
So on both counts Bobswire may like them with the hills in San Fran........
Nice town Bob. I spent a summer out there.

You bring up a interesting point. Is the carbon rim stiffness and strength the catalyst needed to make really low spoke counts at high tension viable?
And if so there's a good advantage for a carbon clincher.

But no more wheels for me for a while. Need to ride some tires bald before I buy anything. Time to ride.

[Ozz]

With the joint and noise problem of OpenPros, I think DT465 or 415 are much better rims. ....
I feel you...when I said "OP", I was meaning any rim similar to the Open Pro....basically a solid 32 spoke clincher rim...with high quality spokes and hubs. Anything beyond that is filling a specific need or want.

I agree with you on the ride of tubulars, but they also add a level of complexity and hassle that most riders don't need. Besides the nuances of the ride are probably lost on most riders...including me. They feel "different" and nice, but better? I don't ride faster or longer, so so what?

The "must have" wheel is one that gets you down the road reliably and without hassle.

Cheers.

:beer:

[cdimattio]

No respectable wheel builder would tie and solder a wheel anymore. That practice was based on a misunderstanding of spoke dynamics, and it makes repairs extremely difficult. It might look nice with wood rims, though.

I would think there are still 'respectable' builders using this technique. I expect you may still find sets of tied and soldered wheels in the pro ranks for use in races such as Paris Roubaix. Integrity is a practical benefit for more extreme use. A broken spoke becomes a more manageable race issue.

I am not sure the practice has been completely abandoned on the track.

Use has certainly fallen out of favor since Jobst Brandt first made some objective meaurements and shared his observations.

[oldpotatoe]

I would think there are still 'respectable' builders using this technique. I expect you may still find sets of tied and soldered wheels in the pro ranks for use in races such as Paris Roubaix. Integrity is a practical benefit for more extreme use. A broken spoke becomes a more manageable race issue.

I am not sure the practice has been completely abandoned on the track.

Use has certainly fallen out of favor since Jobst Brandt first made some objective meaurements and shared his observations.

This guy knows a bit about wheelbuilding as well...great book, easier to read than Jobst's. He talks about T&S....

http://www.icelord.net/bike/ArtOfWheelbuilding.htm