cross bikes in the future....

[rinconryder]

seeing the salsa in the classifieds with the disc brake option got me thinking...given that UCI changes its rules, although very late for the next model year as the designs were already being rolled out, do you think we are going to see more cross bikes with disc brakes. The salsa is a nice option, though not a pure racer...just curious. I have been thinking about building up a nice cross bike to race (I have an okay one right now that gets the job done) but with disc brakes being a legal option now, I would want to go that way - cross breaks are frightening compared to disc and I would much prefer disc.

[AndrewS]

Frightening? I've never had anything but regular canti's on cross or MTB. What am I missing? I've never felt a lack of sufficient braking on a non-downhill kind of course.

[xjoex]

I have a cross bike with discs, I race on it, but I also ride it a ton on double track and tamer single track. I don't know why you wouldn't get one if you ride your cx bike more than just race day. The brakes work so well its amazing.
http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h85/boulderjoe/bikes/IMGP2050.jpg

I rode it the other morning before work on a muddy day rather than take out my mtn bike.

-Joe

[fourflys]

The Salsa referenced above is mine, but I've never mounted discs on it... this bike was my only bike for a long time and I've gotta say I've never had a problem on the road or dirt with the cantis... my mountain hardtail as discs (cheap cable ones mind you) and I don't really see a difference... now hydrallics might be better, but I gotta say I don't see those on a road/cross bike for a while...

as far as racing the Salsa above... well, it wouldn't have mattered if I was on my bike or Tim Johnson's.... I still would have sucked! ;)

But, I do think we'll be seeing more cross bikes with discs if only for marketing...

[MattTuck]

Stupid question. Does the force being applied at the hub as opposed to the rim cause special problems for spokes? Do you need special spokes or is there a certain minimum spoke count?

Thanks.

I have a cross bike with discs, I race on it, but I also ride it a ton on double track and tamer single track. I don't know why you wouldn't get one if you ride your cx bike more than just race day. The brakes work so well its amazing.
http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h85/boulderjoe/bikes/IMGP2050.jpg

I rode it the other morning before work on a muddy day rather than take out my mtn bike.

-Joe

[rugbysecondrow]

Frightening? I've never had anything but regular canti's on cross or MTB. What am I missing? I've never felt a lack of sufficient braking on a non-downhill kind of course.


I can tell a huge difference on my MTB..Technical, especially some technical downhill stuff is where I really notice it. I also have more weight than some others discs help keep it under control a little more.

My new Bedford is going to be a single speed road frame with disc brakes...should be slick.

[shorelocal]

My guess is that lots of manufacturers will be coming out with disc compatible cross frames and forks in the near future. Even if the top cross racers don't run discs (which is unlikely if their sponsors want to push the technology), the general public or joe racer will want to try it. Plus, it's something new that the brands can push as "new tech" and charge a higher price for over non-disc frames/forks.

[pdmtong]

Frightening? I've never had anything but regular canti's on cross or MTB. What am I missing? I've never felt a lack of sufficient braking on a non-downhill kind of course.

what you are missing is the ability (with discs) to carry much more speed, the kind of speed that actually makes clearing sections safer and more confident, simply becasue with one finger you can stop on a dime. the increase in control and confidence that discs bring is game changing. When started mainstreaming 10 years ago there were a lot of designs, many poor. now, in 2010, they all work amazing. light, powerful, great modulation. once the mini-hydro's get figured out for CX, there will be no going back. especially since many of us use our CX as our winter/rain bike too. I for one will be moving to discs as the mfgs start making it possible.

all this is to say the v-brake world is fine (except in steep downhill mud) but IMHO the disc world is much much better.

[rinconryder]

I think it is interesting, if not a bit cynical, that there have been a few references to marketing as part of the change. While I agree that many of the trends we see, integrated seat masts, the ever increasing torsional stiffness, aero frames, etc. is very marketing driven, I would have to disagree in this case. Having ridden both disc brakes and v-brakes I personally feel that disc brakes are far superior, not only in terms of shear stopping ability, but also in regards to their ability to brake better in the elements. That being said, my cross bike had Shorty brakes on it...they sucked. Maybe there is a better option out there and my experience is admittedly limited, but based on my general knowledge of the available options out there, I would have to say that disc brakes are always going to be superior in terms of stopping performance when compared to cantis....but like I said, this may just be my use of crappy cantis.

[ergott]

Just to recap another discussion about this elsewhere:

Us mortals were never limited to cantilever brakes. The disc regulation was for UCI pros.

In the current state, you will get a mixed opinion as to whether it's an advantage for pure cyclocross racing.

Since the UCI ban has been lifted, the technology will only get better. I (and others) bet that it's only a matter of time before Shimano, Campagnolo or SRAM come out with hydraulic brake shift levers. The interest is definitely there.
http://cdn.media.cyclingnews.com/2010/09/15/2/trickstuff_doppelmoppel_full_view_600.jpg

I'm all ears when Shimano comes out with an electric shifting, hydraulic braking set of levers.

As you were...

[alembical]

sounds like there is going to be another player in the cross fork market...

"A cantilever brake version will come first, but a disc brake model likely won’t be far behind. All forks will be available with Serotta’s titanium and mixed material titanium-carbon cyclocross frames as well as for stand-alone purchase. The forks have a carbon steer tube and are available with aluminum or titanium dropouts, straight or tapered, and in a 1″ version as well.

“We’ve been making ’cross bikes since the late 70s,” said Serotta. “And now that we have our own forks, we plan to have more of a presence in the sport.”

http://www.cxmagazine.com/interbike-2010-grammo-cross-bike-serotta-forks-swissstop-aluminum-brake-pads#more-14173

I love discs for Mountain biking, but am not yet sold on the idea for cross... for numerous reasons, but mainly wheel changes and all the current wheels I have, but if I needed a new fork, I would consider one that allowed me to run disc brakes. A front disk and a back canti would be an interesting compromise, especially if you were running a single chain ring up front.

[spartacus]

sounds like there is going to be another player in the cross fork market...



http://www.cxmagazine.com/interbike-2010-grammo-cross-bike-serotta-forks-swissstop-aluminum-brake-pads#more-14173

I love discs for Mountain biking, but am not yet sold on the idea for cross... for numerous reasons, but mainly wheel changes and all the current wheels I have, but if I needed a new fork, I would consider one that allowed me to run disc brakes. A front disk and a back canti would be an interesting compromise, especially if you were running a single chain ring up front.

I'll be having a Serotta cross disc fork for my Legend SE cross frame as soon as it becomes available and in stiffness 6.5 (is that the softest available I wonder?) as front disc braking is superior to cantilever braking IMHO. Only the weight penalty of discs goes against it. For me in very other respect it is the better solution. However, I'm still not sold on the idea of rear disc braking. The frame will be heavier (I like the aesthetics of the Serotta disc stays in titanium but they are necessarily beefy and therefore heavier than both studs and some other disc stay designs I've seen). Front braking/ rear braking has a 2 to 1 power differential and so is a rear disc brake really going to make much of a difference to slowing down...in any conditions?

The great attribute of discs in their power and consistency in the wet and in the mud, and that the rim wall does not wear. Changing a worn rotor is somewhat easier than changing a worn rim.

The UCI decision will hopefully result in better disc equipment. The Avid bb series is fine, but I'd invest in something better when if it comes out.

[dimsy]

I have a cross bike with discs, I race on it, but I also ride it a ton on double track and tamer single track. I don't know why you wouldn't get one if you ride your cx bike more than just race day. The brakes work so well its amazing.
http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h85/boulderjoe/bikes/IMGP2050.jpg

I rode it the other morning before work on a muddy day rather than take out my mtn bike.

-Joe

i'm not a cross guy by any means but i was wondering if implemented would it be more wise to use mechanical disc? or hydraulic?

are hydraulics even compatible with drop bar levers?

[dimsy]

Just to recap another discussion about this elsewhere:

Us mortals were never limited to cantilever brakes. The disc regulation was for UCI pros.

In the current state, you will get a mixed opinion as to whether it's an advantage for pure cyclocross racing.

Since the UCI ban has been lifted, the technology will only get better. I (and others) bet that it's only a matter of time before Shimano, Campagnolo or SRAM come out with hydraulic brake shift levers. The interest is definitely there.

I'm all ears when Shimano comes out with an electric shifting, hydraulic braking set of levers.

As you were...

nevermind, this sorta answered my question.

[FlashUNC]

My Redline has the frame/fork mounts for a disc brake built in, but I'm still using canti's on it. Never really had a situation where I've run out of brake for the conditions.
That could change at some point, but my canti's seem plenty powerful to stop my fat butt.

[crankles]

I'm all ears when Shimano comes out with an electric shifting, hydraulic braking set of levers.

+1 on that. For traditional cross courses, I've never needed anything more the canti's for feathering speed. However, fully sealed hydraulic lines would be really nice. That, in combination w/ DI2 would provide a cableless system. Ideal for cross bikes and worth a weight penalty.

[Cantdog]

Maybe I'm in the minority, but cross bikes with disc brakes, disc mounts, etc. are just ugly. Thats reason enough for me to never get one, vain as it sounds.

Disc brakes are a solution to a problem that in my opinion, doesnt really exist. I can get cantis set up well enough that they provide the slowing power I need, and maybe in 5 years of racing ~16 races a year, there have been only 5-10 total that I wish I had better brakes. But even if I could slow down, usually it was so slippery anyway that your tires couldnt grip.

Having brakes that I don't have to rely on has made me a better all around rider. I'm comfortable with a bike that moves around under me, totally fine with scrubbing speed by sliding or applying a little "opposite lock". In my opinion, the people wanting to see cross bikes with disc brakes are the people who spend their day reading forums and cycling blogs and have convinced themselves that they need disc brakes too. None of my friends and teammates are building bikes with disc brakes now that they are UCI legal. About the only thing they are doing is buying new tubulars because their old ones aren't legal.

So, a solution to a problem that doesnt really exist. And I mean this from a racing perspective. Sure, a wet weather/touring bike it would be fine. But I've ridding my cross bike on trails for years, done short track races with it, and not having discs has never really slowed me down much.

[spartacus]

...and not having discs has never really slowed me down much.

I could read this in a different way. Having discs has definitely slowed me down...in all the right ways. I agree that for a skilled cx competitor canti brakes are probably fine, but other similar bikes in similar conditions not being raced work very well with discs. I think it is the future. An electronic and hydraulic combination really would be the end game. :beer:

[FastVegan]

Disk brakes only belong on cars.

[bicycletricycle]

CX bike in the future will probably have supension that you can preload and then release with a button on your shimano touch screen shifter just before a barrier to get extra huge air.

sorry, couldn't help it :)

[Jason E]

In the future my avatar will ride for me and I can drink beer and watch. It would be like PS-3, but much better.

[bicycletricycle]

i think your avatar could have my launch springs and do flips over the finish for extra points. You wont need any brakes in the future because no one ever uses brakes in video games. can u imagine how light a virtual bike could be?