We have a new Pope

[mad_mark]

Wonder if this one will be as cycling friendly?

Mark.

[e-RICHIE]

i wonder if he'll use his real name.




hey - i'm kidding.
that was schtick!

[SGP]

does he automatically get the colnago, or does he get to choose?

[mad_mark]

i wonder if he'll use his real name.




hey - i'm kidding.
that was schtick!

It would give new meaning to the saying "Oh Rats!"

[CNote]

i wonder if he'll use his real name.




hey - i'm kidding.
that was schtick!

How about this one...

e-POPE

(at least for his online persona)

[Too Tall]

Pope-issimo

[soulspinner]

I wonder if he will adress the abuses that are being uncovered on a daily basis. I am an ex-Catholic who has found the lack of leadership at the top with regard to this issue scary. Sorry, its 75 in upstate New York and Im riding, not hiding...

[LegendRider]

Soulspinner, are you an ex-Christian or just an ex-Catholic? Does the church's mismanagement of the child abuse scandal invalidate its truth claims in your mind?

[eddief]

it is most impt that we stay the traditional course. It has served us so well over the millenia. No one ever killed or abused in the name of religion. Oops, let me get my finger out of my throat.

Sometimes, I just can't stop my fingers from touching the keyboard.

I apologize ahead of time for going off topic.

[Louis]

Just what was needed, another rigid, toe-the-line-or-you'll-burn-in-hell doctrinarian. I can see even more folks leaving the Church in droves. Maybe they can develop robots or automatons to serve as priests - that way there will always be a plentiful supply and they can be programmed to behave the way decent folks are expected to behave.

End of rant.

[LegendRider]

Perhaps we should do away with orthodoxy and simply have referendums on all critical moral issues. Majority rule!!!

[Len J]

Just what was needed, another rigid, toe-the-line-or-you'll-burn-in-hell doctrinarian. I can see even more folks leaving the Church in droves. Maybe they can develop robots or automatons to serve as priests - that way there will always be a plentiful supply and they can be programmed to behave the way decent folks are expected to behave.

End of rant.

I hoped this was an opportunity to create a movement forward, a rethinking of outdated and unsupported dogma..........I guess that's asking too much.

Len

[M_A_Martin]

.

[MartyE]

Does this mean Jan will win the Tour this year?

[bulliedawg]

Just what was needed, another rigid, toe-the-line-or-you'll-burn-in-hell doctrinarian. I can see even more folks leaving the Church in droves. Maybe they can develop robots or automatons to serve as priests - that way there will always be a plentiful supply and they can be programmed to behave the way decent folks are expected to behave.

End of rant.

It's way, way, way, way too early to be saying things like this. It is already emerging that Benedict might not be the hardliner that he appears to be. His job in the previous Papacy was to protect doctrine. He had a job to do, and he did it. He was very loyal to John II. But that does not mean he is a "burn-in-hell doctrinarian." By saying that, you're clearly confusing the Catholics with Baptists.

[davep]

I hoped this was an opportunity to create a movement forward, a rethinking of outdated and unsupported dogma..........I guess that's asking too much.

Len

Wouldn't that mean getting rid of religion entirely?

[Len J]

It's way, way, way, way too early to be saying things like this. It is already emerging that Benedict might not be the hardliner that he appears to be. His job in the previous Papacy was to protect doctrine. He had a job to do, and he did it. He was very loyal to John II. But that does not mean he is a "burn-in-hell doctrinarian." By saying that, you're clearly confusing the Catholics with Baptists.

I'm only going by experience:

Since 1968 he has been known as a "Hard-Liner" when it came to change
For the last 20 Years he has been the previous Pope's chief Theological advisor

In the Vatican, he has been the driving force behind crackdowns on liberation theology, religious pluralism, challenges to traditional moral teachings on issues such as homosexuality, and dissent on such issues as women's ordination.

How can you say it's too early to tell? He was elected by a group of Cardinals appointed by the previous Pope (in the majority) who are clearly voting a "stay the course" candidate. Any appearance that he may not be a Hard liner is spin.

I was wrong (in hindsight) to expect anything different.

Len

[Serotta PETE]

I'm only going by experience:

Since 1968 he has been known as a "Hard-Liner" when it came to change
For the last 20 Years he has been the previous Pope's chief Theological advisor

In the Vatican, he has been the driving force behind crackdowns on liberation theology, religious pluralism, challenges to traditional moral teachings on issues such as homosexuality, and dissent on such issues as women's ordination.

How can you say it's too early to tell? He was elected by a group of Cardinals appointed by the previous Pope (in the majority) who are clearly voting a "stay the course" candidate. Any appearance that he may not be a Hard liner is spin.

I was wrong (in hindsight) to expect anything different.

Len

Len, the ole saying is "Zebras do not change stripes" He has a history of staying with the past as we say.

[bulliedawg]

I'm only going by experience:

Since 1968 he has been known as a "Hard-Liner" when it came to change
For the last 20 Years he has been the previous Pope's chief Theological advisor

In the Vatican, he has been the driving force behind crackdowns on liberation theology, religious pluralism, challenges to traditional moral teachings on issues such as homosexuality, and dissent on such issues as women's ordination.

How can you say it's too early to tell? He was elected by a group of Cardinals appointed by the previous Pope (in the majority) who are clearly voting a "stay the course" candidate. Any appearance that he may not be a Hard liner is spin.

I was wrong (in hindsight) to expect anything different.

Len

I'm sorry you're angry. I will wait and see. No more from me on this subject.

[slowgoing]

Il Pope

[Louis]

Len didn't sound too "angry" to me, maybe disappointed is more like it.

[Serotta PETE]

I'm only going by experience:

Since 1968 he has been known as a "Hard-Liner" when it came to change
For the last 20 Years he has been the previous Pope's chief Theological advisor

In the Vatican, he has been the driving force behind crackdowns on liberation theology, religious pluralism, challenges to traditional moral teachings on issues such as homosexuality, and dissent on such issues as women's ordination.

How can you say it's too early to tell? He was elected by a group of Cardinals appointed by the previous Pope (in the majority) who are clearly voting a "stay the course" candidate. Any appearance that he may not be a Hard liner is spin.

I was wrong (in hindsight) to expect anything different.

Len

Len, the ole saying is "Zebras do not change stripes" He has a history of staying with the past as we say.

[soulspinner]

Im an ex-Catholic. My comments are limited to the lack of response to the widespread abuses priests wreaked on those who trusted them. But its o.k. to
keep gays from getting married. Wow, thats priorities...Please forgive me , this is not the right place for this.. I am going to ride until my assos screamssssssss.

[Len J]

I'm sorry you're angry. I will wait and see. No more from me on this subject.

dissappointed. I was hoping for a "fresh wind" and a confrontation of some of the Church's real issues.

The Church only has a chance at change with a new Pope......the last one lasted 23 years and while Ratzinger is 78, it still will be several years and more conservative Cardinal selection before the next chance.

As to someone else's comment about changing dogma equaling no religion, I don't think it is an all or nothing proposition.

Len

[Climb01742]

maybe it's time for an american catholic church? martin luther didn't like the church he had. certainly there must be a church door somewhere to nail some new ideas on to.

being in boston, you get the sense that there is a gap between parishioners and the church. i guess a valid question might be, who's church is it, anyway?

but that's just musings from the agnostic peanut gallery. no offense intened.

[JohnS]

There actually is an American Catholic Church. I don't remember all the details, but the wife and I checked it out when we were getting married since the Catholic priest said that he wouldn't marry us anywhere but a brick and mortar church.

[SGP]

:bike: Does this mean Jan will win the Tour this year?

gratuitous bike related content

:bike:

the new guy has a tough road ahead of him, i was praying for a moderate, more modern pope. now i pray that he does a good job

[jeffg]

what"s not to love about the Cardinal who headed up what used to be called the "Holy Inquisition?" All kidding aside, he is quite controversial here in Germany, so one can only hope he will keep to the tradition of Benedict XV and be more of a voice for peace.

[JohnS]

We must be the only web forum that can discuss religion in a calm, mature manner but get totally nasty when we're discussing bikes! :)

[Climb01742]

We must be the only web forum that can discuss religion in a calm, mature manner but get totally nasty when we're discussing bikes! :)

compared to carbon vs steel, what's religion?

[zap]

Coming from Germany, must favor carbon. :banana:

[Dr. Doofus]

does the pope wear white lycra????

and does his colnago have a little flying pope guy on the top tube?

[Kevin]

i wonder if he'll use his real name.




hey - i'm kidding.
that was schtick!


In honor of Seinfeld, maybe the Pope Nazi.

No soup for you.

Kevin

[Tony Edwards]

Whaddya know - we're going from a Pope who sounded like Dracula to one who looks like Frankenstein!

^^^ going straight to Hell . . . ^^^

[BumbleBeeDave]

“We must be the only web forum that can discuss religion in a calm, mature manner but get totally nasty when we're discussing bikes! “

LOLOLOLOL!!!!!! :) :p :D

BTW, what’s not to like? “Pope Ben” . . . has a certain, ah, familiar ring to it, eh?

Besides, if this guy really IS 78, as someone else here has said, then he won’t be around very long.

BBDave

[cookieguy]

Fanning the embers of the flames....

>> Besides, if this guy really IS 78, as someone else here has said, then he won’t be around very long.

Let's see....Lets figure a decade or so....any world leaders come to mind causing trouble in 4 or 8 years?

I'm hoping for reasonable behavior....the world REALLY doesn't need more fundamentalism...

Never confuse observance of religious ritual with, with morality or faith....

Here's to HOPE!

[Carlo]

78 years old - interim Pope:unless they know something we don't?

Regards,

Monsignor Carlo

[shinomaster]

Why the heck does anyone need a Pope anyway???? Just go read a bible.. Or a Koran. Or a comic book.

[William]

Living in a predominantly Catholic state, It's interesting to hear some of the "buzz" over the choice of Ben 16. Apparently many folks aren't happy with the choice of this man for pope. A real hardliner for strict adhesion to scripture and move away from science. Some claim a real fire & brimstone type.

Just some of the things I'm hearing here in Lil' Rhody.

William

[LegendRider]

For a little balance, read this:
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/04/20/opinion/20novak.html?th&emc=th

Perhaps he isn't the "fire and brimstone" (silly term to apply to a Catholic) reactionary some of you think he is.

[TimB]

What I want to know is how long it has been since the guy sat down with a beer and a plate of weisswurst and mustard.

Seriously though, as a happily lapsed Catholic and born-again heathen, I think the greatest challenge for any pope has to be to prove the church is still relevant. Much as the 'royal' family of England or the other constitutional monarchies of the world are struggling with this same question.

[BumbleBeeDave]

“I think the greatest challenge for any pope has to be to prove the church is still relevant.“

Very well said. FWIW, I’m not Catholic--or even religious--but I think that’s a question many American Catholics have to be wrestling with right now. We have had our share of priest-sex-abuse cases here in the Albany area, and couple that with the church’s “official” views on birth control, gays, and a number of other social issues, and I would be in terrible internal conflict right now if I were a Catholic.

BBDave

[LegendRider]

There are hundreds of millions of orthodox Catholics to whom the church is very relevant. For those who think it's not, perhaps they should ask themseleves why they are out of step with Catholic teaching. Are their views based on convenience or scripture/tradition? In other words, don't automatically assume it's the church's "fault" there is a divide between it and some lay people.

[JohnS]

The questioning Catholics that I know (I am one) don't have any problems with the big issues (i.e. 10 Comandments). The problem is with the "good old boy" network. There are plenty of married priests in eastern Europe who are Byzantine Catholics. Why not here. What is wrong with women being equal partners? Who were the pedophile priests protected? Why was Rome quiet on this subject? Maybe if they allowed married priests, they wouldn't have to recruit from the 5% of men that don't like women!

[Len J]

There are hundreds of millions of orthodox Catholics to whom the church is very relevant. For those who think it's not, perhaps they should ask themseleves why they are out of step with Catholic teaching. Are their views based on convenience or scripture/tradition? In other words, don't automatically assume it's the church's "fault" there is a divide between it and some lay people.

Unfortunatly, scripture/tradition was selected translated & codified by imperfect men 1,000 years after Christ died (Nicea)..........so to base an argument on that, builds it on a foundation of sand (IMO).


As a disenfranchised Former Catholic who commited the only unforgivible sin in the Catholic church (I am divorced and remarried), my fundamental core problem is that I see a church struggling to defend the form that has been handed down, while increasingly losing sight of the substance of Christ's message.

It'a a church whose actions contradict it's words:

-Materialism is bad, but we will build a lavish multi million $ "Hotel" for the sole purpose of holding the Papel Enclave
-Let honesty and conscience and scripture guide your actions but hide and obfuscate as long as you can a major problem with abusive priests
-Treat all fairly and equally yet treat women as second class Catholics, based solely on tradition and a highly suspect interpretaion of scripture
-Forgive a murderer who is repentant but deny sacraments to remarried people who failed in first marriages and accept their role.
-Don't allow divorce but have an annulment "back door". Wink, Wink, Nod Nod.


I could go on and on, but this is where the relevance breaks down for many thoughtful Catholics.......it's not a matter of convenience (which is the great red herring that is always use to marginalize those that disagree), but rather a questioning of the core values that are most evidenced by the Church's actions.

Sorry for the rant (if it comes across that way, but there is a contimuium between convenience and scripture......it is not a black & white world.

Len

[LegendRider]

I certainly agree there is a continuum between convenience and scripture/tradition. My point is that some critics need to examine their motives - are they searching for truth or for something they want.

Len, your criticisms of the church seem valid to me. I could add certain others as a Protestant.

By the way, are you referring to the Council of Nicea in 325?

[Len J]

By the way, are you referring to the Council of Nicea in 325?

Yes, My bad....there was something important around 1012 or so also, but it escapes me now.

Len

[LegendRider]

I'm not sure. But, the year 1054 was a terrible tragedy for Christianity - the great schism between the west and east. As someone who has seen first hand the condition of Christians in the east, it's a great shame. Maybe one day we'll (all Christians) come together to form a single church...

[dirtdigger88]

I am not a catholic- but I do have to ask- why not a pope from latin america? I have heard the latin americans make up something like 45% of all catholics in the world- a far greater number than any other single group- but what do I know- I have been watching the cardnial of the church here in st louis remove priests from churches becaue the church refused to turn over millions of dollars of assets to the vadican- I just dont get it

Jason

[davids]

I'm staying out of this discussion, because as a Jew, I think my opinions are not incredibly relevent.

But I had heard that the cardinals were interested in picking a older pope because they expicitly do not want another long reign at this point. They are looking for a (relative) short-timer.

That makes their selection more understandable to me - Bendict XVI will (most probably) continue with most of John Paul II's policies and priorities.

Maybe the next pope will be a more "radical" choice?

[Len J]

I am not a catholic- but I do have to ask- why not a pope from latin america? I have heard the latin americans make up something like 45% of all catholics in the world- a far greater number than any other single group- but what do I know- I have been watching the cardnial of the church here in st louis remove priests from churches becaue the church refused to turn over millions of dollars of assets to the vadican- I just dont get it

Jason

Due to life terms, a vast majority of the existing cardinals are Italian and or European:

Europe 84 Of which 35 are Italian
Africa 16
North America 22
Central & South America 25
Asia and Ocenia 19
Total 166

Of these 166 57 are to old to vote and are spread relativly evenly by area.

While the large growth in the church over the last 20+ years has been in 3rd world areas, the college of cardinals has lagged in terms of representing the demograpics of the masses (50+% of catholics are in the 3rd world but only 27% of cardinals are from these areas.

You won't see a third world Pope for a while (Unless an extroidinary Cardinal exists).

Len