Where's the beef? Shifting?

[Lifelover]

After reading the David Kirk Thread last week about using the forum to teach some skills I got pretty exicted. I certianly would classify as one of the riders with very little experience and even less knowledge. However, like many others I have been reluctant to post threads asking what seems like silly questions and often I don't even know what I should be asking.

So, In hopes of doing a little learning while I lurk:

What is there to know about shifting. To me it's just shift up or down to maintain a consistant cadence. However it seems there must be more to it than that. What is the proper way to shift chain rings without a sudden change that you end up over spinning of mashing?

[coylifut]

go find your self a bike with down tube friction shifters. ride it about 10,000 miles. When done, you'll be a master shifter.

[OldDog]

You'll never learn unless you ask...


Study a gear chart to learn the progression of the gears. You'll find your 20 speed bike has about maybe 14 usable gears, varing with your cassette config. Big chainring/big cog and little chainring/little cog (cross-chaining) are not used and then there are dupicate gears. You also need to "trim" the changers to eliminate rub and noise. This may best be learned by asking your local LBS for a demo.

Try sheldonbrown.com and hunt the gear chart.

I just shift 'till it feels right to minimize my panting...

[madbiker]

Not a dumb question.

A decent **general** rule is to pick a typically recomended cadence, say 90. Buy a cyclocomputer that shows cadence. Try to keep yourself in a gear that allows you to stay at that cadence. If your pedaling slows down, go to an easier gear, etc.

[Serotta PETE]

:it's just shift up or down to maintain a consistant cadence. However it seems there must be more to it than that. What is the proper way to shift chain rings without a sudden change that you end up over spinning of mashing?

Key to shifting in to maintain your optimum power, endurance, candence,,,,,,how is that for saying not much??? Being serious, you pretty much centered on the main reason for shifting. The key is to pick the optimum candence for your type of riding and power. Highter candence 80-90 is ideal for most riding. Some people "mash" and have lower candence at times, Others are spinners at all times. What works for you in terms of likes, terrain, past habits, and power output is the correct one.

Ideal for endurance and less risk of injury is a higher cadence (80-90). It might take some practice and discipline to get there but the value is well documented.

Gears all also used to just get you to the finish when you bonk, too tired, too steep of hill etc....candence then becomes second priority.

PETE

[Len J]

As someone else mentioned, study a gear chart (Sheldon Browns site has a good one) paying attention to how many shifts you will need in the rear to compensate for a shift in the front. I have a 50/39/28 ront setup with a 12/23 in the rear. For me (who spins at around 100 rpm) an upshift from the middle ring to the big ring up front usually requires a 2 to three cog downshift in the back to maintain smooth cadence. This is something that varies for each gear setup.

Another "trick" to practice when shifting front chainrings is to simtaneously shift both the front and the back. If I'm upshifting from the middle ring to the big ring, I will make the exact same motion with both hands on my Shimano shifters thus both Upshifting the front and downshifting the back (It works in the other direction also). In addition to saving time getting into the right gear, it also reduces the chances of throwing a chain.

BTW, This is nowhere near a dumb question.

Len

[Climb01742]

a constant cadence will help you master that cadence. but is that necessarily a good thing, or the only thing? for climbing, you may find a higher cadence works better for you. or on the flats, a slower cadence might help you go faster...or be more in tune with your "natural" riding style or strength.

shifting can certainly help you maintain a cadence. but cadences can -- and perhaps should -- vary depending on terrain, your fitness, your style/strengths, season, a whole bunch of stuff.

maybe find a group ride or a good local rider to go out with you, watch you, and give you some tips to help you understand shifting and how it can interact with a bunch of variables. many gears, many answers. :D

[Brons2]

I've been riding bicycles with gears since I got my first 10 speed at Christmas 1982 (had a bmx before that).

I shift when I feel like it, and no TDF rider is going to tell me how to do it any differently. :D:D

But seriously, I prefer a much slower cadence and higher gear than I see most people riding with. It's probably a function of my height (6'7"), long legs and high weight/low reps strength training. I don't have a computer so I don't know what that cadence is. If I use a cadence more in line with what I see the so-called experienced riders using, I find I am accelerating into people's back tires. Nevertheless, the previous paragraph aside, I'll keep experimenting.

[Dave]

As others have noted, a quick look at a gear-inch chart will tell you how to produce a uniform gearing progression. With a common 53/39, riding in the 53 until you get to the next-to-largest cog will require a 2-cog shift after changing to the 39. For example shifting from a 53/23 to a 39/19 produces the next lowest available gear ratio. If you want to make a "preemptive" shift to the same gear ratio, it takes a 3-cog shift to a 39/17.

Another thing that the gear-inch chart will show is that you can't rely on counting the tooth difference between rings to create a uniform gearing progression. A 52/42/32 is NOT a uniform progression. The the 52 is only 24% larger than the 42 is 31% larger than the 30. It's also rarely possible to create a perfectly uniform progression, but a 53/39/28 is close with differences of 36% and 39%.

Personally, I use higher cadences of 90-110 rpm on flatter terrain and 80-85 when climbing mountains (seated). Many riders drop far lower, into the 60 rpm range for climbing. Doesn't work for me.

I recently followed a 7 year younger 45+ Masters racer for 6 miles up a mountain. On the steepest sections, he cranked his lowest gear, a 39/23, at about 60 rpm while I spun a 28/23 at about 85 rpm.

[Brons2]

I don't get that at all. I definitely spin it up when climbing, at least if I'm gonna stay seated like I usually do. If I am standing on it, then I'll usually shift to a smaller cog before standing up.

[Orin]

If I am standing on it, then I'll usually shift to a smaller cog before standing up.

Perfectly normal and correct.

I'd suggest getting the ability to spin over 100 rpm, perhaps by riding a fixed gear for a while, then letting your legs decide what rpm they like - which may well mean going right back to the cadences you are using now!

As an aside, riding a fixed gear does two things - it teaches you to spin on the downhills and to mash on the uphills. Once you get back on a geared bike, you quickly find which your legs like better.

Orin.

[Ti Designs]

Wow, a post about riding your bike - how refreshing!

I've listened to Scott Fader coach people for a while, he comes up with explainations which are direct and to the point - here's his take on shifting:

When he first starts coaching someone, the very first ride he asks "what gear are we using today". They don't get it, they look at the bike (which Scott probably sold them) and it's got 10 speed - there are so many gears back there and the shifters work! He goes on to explain that it's like training a dog, your brain needs to tell your legs how much power to put into the pedals, if your legs are telling your brain what gear to be in, you're doing it wrong. There's a whole lotta logic to that theory, the body is an adaptive system that responds to training like this.

As for RPM ranges and which gears to use, I'm in favor of training both spin and power, and using them as needed. I have my riders switch to fixed gears in the winter and as soon as the gear seems reasonable I have them lower the gear and spin faster. It works the cardiovascular system harder and builds a pedal range that can only help later in the season. I also have them work on turning the big gears which builds power. The trick is knowing when to use what. In races (or any group ride) I say use the lower gears early, save the legs. Big gears let you put the power to the pedals, but muscles have a limit to the stresses they can endure. Low gears put less stress on the legs and more stress on the cardiovascular system which will recover on the ride.


The answer to the question is first to train your body to both push a big gear and spin a small one. Once you have a good range you can figure out when to use what, and what works best. As for climbing, there's a lot of technique that goes into it before we can discuss cadence. I see way too many people spinning little tiny gears and going super slow because they have never learned how to climb.



Ed Sassler
ed@wheelworks.com

[Skrawny]

Please continue the good advice. :)
-s

[Lifelover]

Here is the link for the gear chart mentioned.

Sheldon Brown Gear Ratio Calc (http://www.sheldonbrown.com/gears/index.html)

Thanks for the replys and keep them coming.

[David Kirk]

This has been very cool to follow and exactly what I hoped for when I started that thread awhile back.

It just warms the soul.

Dave

[Lifelover]

This has been very cool to follow and exactly what I hoped for when I started that thread awhile back.

It just warms the soul.

Dave

Yes it has been informative. I for one have quite a few other topics I would like to discuss but instead of doing them all at once I will try to ask one every week or so.

Thanks again.

[bulliedawg]

Yes it has been informative. I for one have quite a few other topics I would like to discuss but instead of doing them all at once I will try to ask one every week or so.

Thanks again.

Great screen name!