watch out for open doors...

[crownjewelwl]

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/brooklyn/cyclist_knocked_into_bus_dies_PLKKRSSzayccSrTihDGi 7K

[AngryScientist]

yikes, sad indeed, for all concerned.

[BumbleBeeDave]

. . . for these stories, the comments offer a sad view into the American psyche of today. Prejudice against cyclists, unmerited assumptions, and racial prejudice all rolled in there with the comments--even though I can find absolutely no mention in the story of the race of any of those involved.

It's also revealing to me that the car driver, even if it has not been proven yet she caused it, left the scene of the fatal accident to attend the baby shower she was in route to. Welcome to 21st century America: It's all about me, me, ME . . .

BBD

[happycampyer]

BBD,

The internet really does bring out the best in people, doesn't it... :crap:

[rugbysecondrow]

I read these comments threads with a grain of salt, but again, cyclists and people on bikes need to take responsibility for how they are percieved. My ride yesterday was the latest example of how folks on bikes often think the rules don't apply to them and are absolutly incurteous, almost disdainful of drivers. Not moving to the right, not staying single file when appropriate, not stopping at stop signs, not even signalling their intentions to other drivers...just rude and obnoxious. At least three times I was stopped at a stop sign (myself and my riding companions) some dip**** on a bike would zoom past us into the intersections only to have to slam on their brakes or weave through the cars...as if we were stopping for our health. This happens all the time. These small towns even threatend to have cops stationed at stops signs to issue citations...I wish they would have...Just one paceline would have netted 12 tickets at 75 bucks a pop, that is what I call economic development.

I love riding my bike, but I am not alone in thinking many cyclists are just dickheads. What sucks is that it is typically not the dickhead who gets hit, it is me two miles down the road.

Sorry, this hit a nerve.

[AndrewS]

It sounds as if you were indeed "stopping for your health". Pretty unhealthy to be hit by a car.

Here in Wisconsin it only recently became the driver's fault if they opened a car door on a cyclist. Doesn't really matter whose fault it is - you have to stay clear of doors.

I have had problems with drivers even when everyone is doing the right thing. One time I was riding in the left lane in prelude to a left turn on a 3 lane one way street. The woman behind me called me a name and said she was a bike commuter. She never found out that I was 2 driveways and 70 feet from making a turn, and hadn't signalled because it would have indicated the wrong driveway intention. I don't know what I could have done better and still used my bike as a vehicle.

[BumbleBeeDave]

My ride yesterday was the latest example of how folks on bikes often think the rules don't apply to them and are absolutly incurteous, almost disdainful of drivers. Not moving to the right, not staying single file when appropriate, not stopping at stop signs, not even signalling their intentions to other drivers...just rude and obnoxious.

. . . but not this particular one, given that ALL I have to go on right now is the content of the linked news story. If every street is lined with parked cars and the urban cyclist has a choice of riding in the middle of the lane where they are likely to get hit, OR riding on the right close to the line of cars where they may get "doored," then which option to choose? Legally aren't they required to stay to the right? And even if they are officially entitled to the whole lane, I would not care to try riding in the middle of a traffic lane for any length of time in NYC. Good way to become a hood ornament or a human flapjack. :eek:

Given that--again--all I have to go on thus far is the content of the story, OI see nothing there indicating the cyclist was doing anything other than what she was supposed to be doing. As far as we know right now, she was literally "just riding along."

Now, may be I missed something in that story--after all, I certainly did miss the fact that the photo does make obvious that the car driver is, in fact, African American . . . :rolleyes: . . . though that doesn't make the story comments any less disgusting.

But Rugby, I gotta agree with you . . . Lots of cyclists are their own wort PR enemies. My own personal peeve and challenge is what to say to buddies out on a ride when they do these same things. I stop at the red light and they just go right on through. Or they take a short cut the wrong way down a one way street. ***?! . . .

BBD

[AndrewS]

A cyclist should ride as far right as is safe. If you're within the reach of car doors, you're too far right. You ride where it is safe, and overtaking traffic yields to your right of way.

I wouldn't say the cyclist in the article was "at fault", but she put herself in a position where only luck could keep her safe. I don't believe in luck.

[rugbysecondrow]

. . . but not this particular one, given that ALL I have to go on right now is the content of the linked news story. If every street is lined with parked cars and the urban cyclist has a choice of riding in the middle of the lane where they are likely to get hit, OR riding on the right close to the line of cars where they may get "doored," then which option to choose? Legally aren't they required to stay to the right? And even if they are officially entitled to the whole lane, I would not care to try riding in the middle of a traffic lane for any length of time in NYC. Good way to become a hood ornament or a human flapjack. :eek:

Given that--again--all I have to go on thus far is the content of the story, OI see nothing there indicating the cyclist was doing anything other than what she was supposed to be doing. As far as we know right now, she was literally "just riding along."

Now, may be I missed something in that story--after all, I certainly did miss the fact that the photo does make obvious that the car driver is, in fact, African American . . . :rolleyes: . . . though that doesn't make the story comments any less disgusting.

But Rugby, I gotta agree with you . . . Lots of cyclists are their own wort PR enemies. My own personal peeve and challenge is what to say to buddies out on a ride when they do these same things. I stop at the red light and they just go right on through. Or they take a short cut the wrong way down a one way street. ***?! . . .

BBD
I don't think this rider was incorrect, but I was speaking to the comments themselves. The lack of sympathy for riders in general is due to the general douche-baggy nature of many cyclist...they make us look bad.

[cinema]

I have had problems with drivers even when everyone is doing the right thing. One time I was riding in the left lane in prelude to a left turn on a 3 lane one way street. The woman behind me called me a name and said she was a bike commuter. She never found out that I was 2 driveways and 70 feet from making a turn, and hadn't signalled because it would have indicated the wrong driveway intention. I don't know what I could have done better and still used my bike as a vehicle.

This happens to me sometimes. It seems to me most drivers will say they want you to obey 'the rules of the road', but in lots of situations they don't want you to. They just want you to do what is most convenient for them as motorists.

on my commute to work I have to make a left turn into a parking lot coming from a four lane, two way street. I pass carefully into the left turn lane and drivers still look at me funny. last week I had someone honk at me and throw up their arms. Am I supposed to do as motorists say (ie, obeying the rules of the road, which is what i'm doing) or do they simply want me out of their way, in which case I could stay on the right side of the right lane, unclip, rest my foot on the curb still in the street no less, and wait for NO traffic AT ALL from all four lanes in both directions?

[dimsy]

. . . for these stories, the comments offer a sad view into the American psyche of today. Prejudice against cyclists, unmerited assumptions, and racial prejudice all rolled in there with the comments--even though I can find absolutely no mention in the story of the race of any of those involved.

It's also revealing to me that the car driver, even if it has not been proven yet she caused it, left the scene of the fatal accident to attend the baby shower she was in route to. Welcome to 21st century America: It's all about me, me, ME . . .

BBD

You bring up a few points I'd like to touch on. The NY Post is, for all intents and purpose, practically a tabloid paper. Most of the stories they print about cyclists are generally negative, except for the one someone posted a few weeks back about the "new middle aged crisis" and how an increasing number of men over 40 spend large clumps of cash on bicycles. Though that article wasn't negative, it did have a bit of a comical tone to it.

Your 2nd paragraph brings to mind this fantastic book I read about post baby-boomer generation(s). Specifically people born in the 70's, 80's and 90's. The book is Generation Me: Why Today's Young Americans Are More Confident, Assertive, Entitled--and More Miserable Than Ever Before by Jean Twenge. The basic idea is that people born within these generations have a much higher sense of entitlement than previous generations.

Sorry to digress as the contents of the article are indeed sad.

[dimsy]

A cyclist should ride as far right as is safe. If you're within the reach of car doors, you're too far right. You ride where it is safe, and overtaking traffic yields to your right of way.


. . .I would not care to try riding in the middle of a traffic lane for any length of time in NYC. Good way to become a hood ornament or a human flapjack. :eek:

BBD

I live and ride in NYC all the time, and I generally do what Andrew suggested. I tend to stay away from any street with more than two lanes in either direction. In any case I don't get too much crap for riding in the middle of the lane generally and the few times I have had comments hurled at me I usually pull right up to the driver and have a brief (amicable) exchange about the dangers of my NOT riding in the middle of the lane in that particular instance. I've never been doored thankfully but I try and take as many precautions as I possibly can to avoid it, even if that means that sometimes I have to trade in one dangerous situation for one that might be slightly less so.

[pbjbike]

I live and ride in NYC all the time, and I generally do what Andrew suggested. I tend to stay away from any street with more than two lanes in either direction. In any case I don't get too much crap for riding in the middle of the lane generally and the few times I have had comments hurled at me I usually pull right up to the driver and have a brief (amicable) exchange about the dangers of my NOT riding in the middle of the lane in that particular instance. I've never been doored thankfully but I try and take as many precautions as I possibly can to avoid it, even if that means that sometimes I have to trade in one dangerous situation for one that might be slightly less so.

+1 on your selection of routes and instincts, and your ability to educate. :beer:

Unless you've ridden regularly on NYC streets, you might not know or appreciate the hazards involved. I've been doored by a passenger throwing open the door of a cab that was going 10-12 m.p.h, and I T-boned another cab that swung into my (left) lane on Broadway from two lanes over to try and make a left turn ahead of me. Yes, I was keeping up with traffic and we had made eye contact...

There are many bike lanes that have been painted on in the last 5 or 6 years, so awareness of cyclists right-of-way is much better now than it was in the past.

Anyone who assumes this tragedy was caused by the cyclist really misses the point. Knuckleheads on nice road bikes on a Sunday ride, (who don't know how to behave), are certainly fodder for another thread. I've got plenty of stories to tell from this neck of the woods. :rolleyes:

To ride in New York unscathed, one mast have incredible riding skills, be able to read the road and potential hazards in front/behind you, and have some luck riding with you, (and a good helmet). Eventually, you'll probably make physical contact with a pedestrian or motor vehicle. Between jaywalkers, delivery guys careening the wrong way in your path, cabs crossing 4 or five lanes at a 90 degree angle to pick up a fare, buses, emergency vehicles squeezing through stopped traffic, and all the rest, NYC cyclists are a brave lot to risk life and limb.

Still, riding there is way more entertaining than anything on cable, and by far the fastest way to get from A to B.

[dimsy]

Unless you've ridden regularly on NYC streets, you might not know or appreciate the hazards involved.

There are many bike lanes that have been painted on in the last 5 or 6 years, so awareness of cyclists right-of-way is much better now than it was in the past.

Right on. It seems like bike lanes are dual purpose in this city. Cycling and hailing cabs.

Broadway is LITERALLY an obstacle course and the stretch between 14th street and the J Edgar Hoover building is treacherous at best.

I'm not joking when I say I do bunny hops on my road bike more than most BMX kids to avoid, not potholes, but SINKHOLES that drop at least 3 feet with a cone that was once in front of it but managed to make its' way IN it.

On a topic related note. My buddy and his girlfriend aren't cyclists by any means, in fact I doubt they even ride a bike, however they had picked me up for lunch one day and his girlfriend, who I'm ok with saying isn't the sharpest tool in the shed, nor the friendliest goes about telling me how she doored some poor girl, althewhile sporting a smile on her face as if she had done something righteous. This attitude is not uncommon, especially here, and it SUCKS!

After gauging my reaction she told me she wasn't hurt, however this could have been pure crap and some defense mechanism to not add fuel to the fire she just fanned.

Needless to say, I couldn't stomach the idea of being near her for another moment, let alone eating with her for fear I might not be able to keep it down (my food that is).