how do you handle wheelsuckers?

[Climb01742]

i was in the last interval of this morning's ride. a 15-minute high cadence one. passed a guy. said hi and everything. then he got right on my wheel. i could hear him breathing and his unlubed chain creak. after 5 minutes, i said "how 'bout coming around and pulling?" "i can't" he said. ok. a few more minutes. "how 'bout now?" "can't." had it been any other part of my ride, i'd have sped up or slowed way down, anything to lose him. but i had my last interval to do. for the full 15 minutes he wheelsucked right on my wheel.

isn't the proper ettiquite (sp?) if you're gonna draft, you gotta pull sometime. and if you can't pull, then at least drop back a little. what're you supposed to do with road leeches?

[CNY rider]

Usually use the .357.

[coylifut]

I just tow them around for while. It doesn't bother me

[Smiley]

Blow Gas .....FART , its works :banana:

[bcm119]

I agree with Coy. Isn't it a little ego boost to have someone draft you who can't keep your pace?

[jartzt]

If you are wisely investing your time doing interval training and you are in the middle of your last high intensity interval wouldn't you want to continue to pull anyway? If he comes around you and pulls which allows you to work less wouldn't that limit the effectiveness of the interval?

There's a stretch of road I do most of my interval work on that is filled with long steep rollers. I always work at my highest intensity on the uphill and then completely relax and recover beginning at the crest and through the end of my momentum on the next roller. It always kills me when I pass a bunch of people on the uphill portion and then they kill themselves to catch me on the downhill when I'm recovering (as if that would be possible if I hammered through as I would in a race).

My two cents: Push yourself. Be safe. Have fun. And don't worry about wheel suckers.

[Too Tall]

I can't tell you what to do brah however if it were me and I was doing intervals I'd not want anyone on my wheel period so I'd tell the guy to just ignore me cause I'm doing intervals. If that didn't work I'd stop and take a piss...that always works ;)

[e-RICHIE]

1) if i catch somebody up and pass them, i always say
hi and keep going. if by some chance they stay with me
or catch me, once i notice, i stop pedaling and freewheel
until the guy gets up the road. the message is, "i'm here
on my own".

2) i have never done an interval that exceeded 2 minutes.
are you sure the trainer's instructions were not for 1.5 minutes?

[Lost Weekend]

He was probably just admiring your new bike, ifin you was on the new Ottrott.Otherwise drop em like a bad habbit.

[Climb01742]

once i notice, i stop pedaling and freewheel
until the guy gets up the road. the message is, "i'm here
on my own".

that would have been a good idea. normally i don't mind towing someone -- since i'm more often the towee -- but i was in the middle of a tough workout, i was concentrating, (i was enjoying my new steed), and i don't know, just hearing his breath and rusty chain, just bugged me, kinda got in my space. silly, i guess. but it did bug me.

[e-RICHIE]

"normally i don't mind towing someone -- since i'm more often the towee"




huh!?
how do the tow-ers react to you when the tables are turned?

[Climb01742]

i always come around to pull for awhile -- even if it wastes me -- and then i say, as they ride off up the road, "thanks, man, i appreciate the tow." there's just an unspoke rule, isn't there? if you're gonna accept help, you gotta give help?

[e-RICHIE]

i don't get passed much, but if i did, i'd never try
to sit on or go toe-to-toe.

[Climb01742]

i don't get passed much

therein lies the difference, pal-richie. ;)

[e-RICHIE]

it's not about the bike.

[yeehawfactor]

it's not about the bike.
no, but every second counts.

[Blastinbob]

...i'll hold the pace for a while to see if they are there to stay, if they just sit i'll pick up the pace to see what they got, that generally gets rid of them. There is one guy, here locally, that will sit and wait for groups to go by just so he can jump on for a free ride, never pulls, he's going to end up in a ditch some day.

[e-RICHIE]

yeehawfactor-issimo wrote:
"no, but every second counts."


it only counts in racing.

[vandeda]

Honestly ... since I was the weaker, dumber, not as artistic brother, whatever (no ... i'm not exaggerating either ... my brother is very smart and has more talent than I do in most ways), I'll honestly say I would consider it an honor lol. I have no problem whatsoever if someone drafts me, but don't have the strength to give some back. Heck, I've been in that boat, but my riding buddies from work are great and understood that before, during and after the ride and were glad to tow me around everywhere whenever they asked me to ride. OK, I understand that that is a different situation because they asked me to come along, knowing that I couldn't give back. Fortunately, these days I am able to give back now and tow.

Unless they're being a jerk about it, or I feel they're being unsafe ... really, I'm cool with it and will tow them along as long as they want to stay back there. Now, I guess it would be a different story if they were disrupting a specific workout I was doing, then I'd probaby say something. But usually I'm not because I'm either a) riding with a group of friends, or b) I'm commuting with the pannier bags. So ... hop on, and enjoy the ride :D

Dan

[Kevin]

Let them draft, sometime it will be the other way around.

Kevin

[Darrell]

Good grief, let the chap sit on. Who cares?, I point to the space beside me and ask them up for a chat. They feel obliged then and then you can take them to half wheeling hell if you are the vindictive type and inthe mood.{there was a time I may have been able to do that}You know, hands on the top of the bars and you just take them to hell in incremental steps while chatting about the 150 kms you have just done and the two big climbs you going to get stuck into later and would you like to come along? After three k's of slowly increasing speed they are burnt. You ego is returned to normal. If it needs this sort of threapy.
Who cares about them sitting on during a training ride?
If you have lots of racing experience then you would only be concerning yourself about such issues when it REALLY counts.

That is when your number is pinned on.

[BumbleBeeDave]

. . . riding easy, then I don’t really care. But if the guy is still there 10 minutes later, then I’ll drop the hammer and that usually takes care of ‘em.

But if I’m going hard, this guy is clearly feeding off my work, and there’s no more hammer left to drop on my part, then it gets a bit more problematic. I can’t always produce, uh, smelly bee pollen on demand, as Smiley suggests. I usually say something after a few minutes. Other solutions involve just suddenly veering left. Of course, when contemplating this maneuver it’s usually prudent check behind first so I don’t end up being a hood ornament of an Escalade. :eek:

BBDave

[vandeda]

yeehawfactor-issimo wrote:
"no, but every second counts."


it only counts in racing.

the race in my head that is ;) think back to the days when you were a kid, and you're shooting hoops by yourself, and next thing you know ... it's the final seconds in the game, you're a point down, you shoot .... HE SCORES!!!!!!!!!!!!! THE CROWD IS GOING WILD!!!!!!!!!!!! YOU'RE THE MVP OF THE GAME!!!!!!!!!!!! YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

:D
Dan - living in Mr. Roger's Land of Make Believe with Mr. Trolley

[gasman]

I guess I don't mind having people suck behind me because it happens so infrequently :p .when I do sit behind I always try to take a pull even if I can only pull a short distance. It is common ettiquete to do so if you are capable. When I ride with Vax I sit behind him WAY more than he behind me, he is just a stronger rider . Like this morning we did 68 miles in the wind and at times raining so hard you could barely see ahead, Vax was out front the vast majority of time in our small group.
That all being said Climb I could see how a creaky chain and huffing lungs behind could be distracting when you're having so much fun.

[e-RICHIE]

vandeda-issimo come back with:
"the race in my head that is think back to the days when you were a kid, and you're shooting hoops by yourself, and next thing you know ... it's the final seconds in the game, you're a point down, you shoot .... HE SCORES!!!!!!!!!!!!! THE CROWD IS GOING WILD!!!!!!!!!!!! YOU'RE THE MVP OF THE GAME!!!!!!!!!!!! YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"


i still race, so for me, all that matters is what happens on sunday.
ugh. that's tomorrow...

[BumbleBeeDave]

Can you teach me how to make smelly bee pollen on demand? ;)

BBDave

[Tom]

Heck, just swing off and drop behind them, if you're not in the middle of a structure. If they're wicked slow, it's time to change your route and go exploring.

[vandeda]

i still race, so for me, all that matters is what happens on sunday.
ugh. that's tomorrow...

yeah ... i must admit that i don't race nor do i have ambitions to do so. one i can become too competitive, and hence i stop having fun. two, training for bike races just would take too much of my spare time. so, i either commute or ride with my friends ... most of whom are faster than i am anyway. and the weather has been absolute bliss out there for commuting .... oh my, got some awesome sunset pictures last night on my commute to some friends' place.

so i take it e-richie that all your races are held on Sunday then?

Dan

[e-RICHIE]

cross is sat and sun.
road is too. tomorrow is race one for
05 road season for me. late start.

[Dekonick]

Snipped "If that didn't work I'd stop and take a piss...that always works "

Why stop? I think that would be even more effective!

[vaxn8r]

I guess I don't mind having people suck behind me because it happens so infrequently :p .when I do sit behind I always try to take a pull even if I can only pull a short distance. It is common ettiquete to do so if you are capable. When I ride with Vax I sit behind him WAY more than he behind me, he is just a stronger rider . Like this morning we did 68 miles in the wind and at times raining so hard you could barely see ahead, Vax was out front the vast majority of time in our small group.
That all being said Climb I could see how a creaky chain and huffing lungs behind could be distracting when you're having so much fun.
Yeah but it's different when you are in a small group and you know everyone. Thanks for the props though.

A few years ago somebody wanted to get in our little group's paceline. He was on a crappy, poorly tuned, rattly Quintana Roo. At the top of a hill the course hit a stop sign and turned left, he went straight ahead and T-boned one of our group causing a crash. Yeah, it's a big ride and people are moving in and out all the time but this was the second 200, he drafted about 10 miles and never pulled through. Live and learn. If it happened today I'd tell him to get off.

If I'm alone it never bothers me. I usually try to start a conversation, talk about bikes...I always enjoy talking about bikes, rides, pretty much anything but mostly bikes. Conversations also allow me to cool it a bit. I can get pretty intense when I ride alone.

[lnomalley]

fart.

no, um, hi, what, being on a bike makes you a mute? usually during the week i am doing a recovery ride and lo-and behold in full tuck an inch off my wheel is some form of a rolling disaster (with the best of intention, the least of a clue, and with too much a likelihood of crossing my back wheel and ending my season that has too many 25 hour weeks on that hard little saddle to just give away like that)...so, I sit up, i turn back, and i speak!

"hey, do you mind? thanks, i really would like to ride alone today. oh, and nice postal kit!"

[gasman]

Can you teach me how to make smelly bee pollen on demand? ;)

BBDave


It is easy grasshopper, er beeman---beans, pollinated beans in your case.

[toaster]

Look at it this way, you think Lance would allow an unknown rider to be in front where a wrong move would crash him out?

If Team Discovery ever came to your town for training rides, number one, they're not going to let you sit in, number two, if they did you'd be in the back where you belong so your erratic riding isn't going to kill someone. Third, you'll get dropped anyway.

Sorry to use the Lance card.

It's a bit risky to ride an unknown dude's wheel. BTDT!

[vandeda]

cross is sat and sun.
road is too. tomorrow is race one for
05 road season for me. late start.

e-richie,

My best wishes on your first race for the road season! go out there and kick some serious booty!!!! :D :D :D :D

Dan

[e-RICHIE]

thanks.
gee. i hope the parts work.
if they do, i'll double up and race the 1-2 event in the afternoon.
if they don't, i'll be at the bar by 3pm.

[csb]

symplocarpus foetidus

[dsimon]

i love it when you have a poser, or some really rich bastard who has money to blow on a bike and cant ride. my first true serotta is a 8 year old csi with an upgrade ultegra kit. but as far as the towing thing im always the train for some reason they like getting behind a 200lb guy how can hammer but were i really get them is i slow down on hills and attack halfway then start to hammer again leaving the tow suckung leaches in my back blast area. but if its my friends how havent ridden in a while thats cool i dont mind. :argue:

[Orin]

i always come around to pull for awhile -- even if it wastes me -- and then i say, as they ride off up the road, "thanks, man, i appreciate the tow." there's just an unspoke rule, isn't there? if you're gonna accept help, you gotta give help?

Yes, BUT... some DAYs you're the tower, some DAYs you're the towee.

Why must you give help RIGHT NOW? Why not leave it be and let the towee give help when able, whenever it may be and to whomever it may be?

Even when riding in a paceline on a group ride, there should NEVER be a requirement that everyone takes a pull. Let the weaker rider who can barely manage to hang on sit in. Perhaps next time or the time after they'll have something left to pull with. What good have you done if you make them take a pull, then they blow out the back? If it's not a race, none.

Orin.

[Climb01742]

I can get pretty intense when I ride alone.

me too. some rides you're feeling mellow and it's "we are the world". other rides, you're feeling intense and it's travis bickle saying "you talking to me?" maybe it's not so much the towee, as it is the particular mood and moment of the tow-er. i think i shoulda just said, dude, not today.

[Jeff N.]

Never let 'em bother me at all. Heck, my wife and I were out on the tandem yesterday, doing about 20mph up the Silver Strand here in SD. My wife said, "We've got company". I glanced around to see we had about 6 riders on our wheel. Kinda gave me motivation to mash harder. At the end, several riders thanked us for the pull. "Anytime", I said back. It ain't no thang. If they touch my wheel, its THEM thats going down, not me. Jeff N.

[Michael Katz]

For me the primary issue is safety. If a stranger jumps on your wheel, you don't have a clue about their bike handling ability, riding style or how they will react to unanticipated events. If you are doing a relaxed ride, you have the opportunity to converse a bit, observe the other rider and evaluate whether you want to be hospitable and social. If you are pushing hard and hammering, forget it! I won't take the risk and civilly but firmly tell the other rider I want to ride alone. This becomes a big issue on charity rides when I'm riding with friends and we have all agreed to ride a tight paceline and push our envelope. Other riders just love to jump on the train and we tell them we are a closed group for their safety and ours and to find someone else to ride with. If asking nicely doesn't work, we will try a variety of things such as speeding up, slowing down, or even all of us refusing to pull and rotating off the front immediately so that the intruder always is stuck at the front. They usually get the message and go away.

[jerk]

if the jerk didn't suck wheels he'd have no one to ride with who he'd want to ride with.

jerk

[Elefantino]

Works every time.

When they yell, say "Oh, sorry. I didn't know you were there." :rolleyes:

But seriously, I like pulling, except in headwinds. Since my accident, I have a strong aversion to riding in the back of large groups, or even medium-sized ones. As long as there's not a strong headwind, I like it up front. If I'm riding with people I know, they know my pace and hang with me. If I'm riding too fast, they yell "piano." Too slow, and they say "I got it."

So if someone wants to jump on my wheel, and they don't appear have trouble holding a line, I don't mind.

[shaq-d]

what's the big deal here? you talk to the guy. 'nuff said.

sd

[Too Tall]

Snot Rockets??? Yer killing me man. I like to yell "oowwww my eye" and see what they do.

E-issimo did you do us proud boy?

[BumbleBeeDave]

. . .that great humanitarian and philosopher, Ted Nugent, said it best . . .

“Remember the Alamo! Shoot 'em!" he screamed to applause. "To show you how radical I am, I want carjackers dead. I want rapists dead. I want burglars dead. I want child molesters dead. I want wheelsuckers dead. I want the bad guys dead. No court case. No parole. No early release. I want 'em dead. Get a gun and when they attack you, stick the barrel in their spokes, then shoot 'em--and steal their Clif Bars!”

What a guy! . . . :banana:

BBDave

[Jeff N.]

" They deserve respect, but not rights! They HAVE no RIGHTS! They're FOOD, man!" - The Nuge, on animal rights. Jeff N.

[hypnospin]

if you really don't want someonone on, just pull off. you can politely say you do not want somone on because you are doing strucured workout.
you can always pull off, look cooked, and announce you are shot, just go ahead.
if not in conversant charitable mood, good oppuritunity to practice riding someone off your wheel. give a little swerve and jump, leave 'em in the wind.
when i come up on a wheel, i always ask, hey, mind if i try to tag along?
this seems to be a good introduction. for myself, i am quite aquainted with the trading of pulls and if you are not find a group ride with paceline activity.

i always come around to pull for awhile -- even if it wastes me -- and then i say, as they ride off up the road, "thanks, man, i appreciate the tow." there's just an unspoke rule, isn't there? if you're gonna accept help, you gotta give help?

[hypnospin]

in san jose with the damn yankees he commented on the rash of carjackings, advocating the carrying of a shotgun cross your lap.
in the event a carjacker thusly is scattered about he then reccomends calling the police to clean the mess up.
a hero for our times?



. . .that great humanitarian and philosopher, Ted Nugent, said it best . . .

“Remember the Alamo! Shoot 'em!" he screamed to applause. "To show you how radical I am, I want carjackers dead. I want rapists dead. I want burglars dead. I want child molesters dead. I want wheelsuckers dead. I want the bad guys dead. No court case. No parole. No early release. I want 'em dead. Get a gun and when they attack you, stick the barrel in their spokes, then shoot 'em--and steal their Clif Bars!”

What a guy! . . . :banana:

BBDave