Blood on my Neutron Ultras

[cinema]

an hour later and I still can't fit gp4000s 23's onto my neutron rims. my index finger is gashed and bleeding, also bruised from jamming it against the rim over and over again trying to push the bead over the rim. Should I just bring it to the shop? I feel like an idiot :crap:

[Mike748]

Sounds like a Mellencamp song...

But seriously, you are allowed to use tire levers to mount a tire if you are careful not to pinch the tube.

[MattTuck]

Sorry to hear you're having so much trouble.

1.) Did you try tire levers or some other means of mechanical advantage?
2.) Maybe get a pair of leather gloves?


Hope you can still shift with your index finger.

[thegunner]

gp4000's are stiff as crap. you really need good levers (pedro's are wonderful), or else they're just gonna snap.

[cinema]

yep. i got my death grip on the tire levers (have tried park and trek), using the blunt end to try and push the bead over the rim. that's where i keep losing the tension and my hand goes smashing into the rim!! I'm sure I can still shift, too bad I won't be able to until I can get this thing figured out!

So what exactly is the tactic i should be using with the tire levers? I am using the blunt end as i said (not the end that you can snap to the spokes), holding it against the braking surface, and sliding it up against the bead trying to get it over.

[thegunner]

yep. i got my death grip on the tire levers (have tried park and trek), using the blunt end to try and push the bead over the rim. that's where i keep losing the tension and my hand goes smashing into the rim!! I'm sure I can still shift, too bad I won't be able to until I can get this thing figured out!

So what exactly is the tactic i should be using with the tire levers? I am using the blunt end as i said (not the end that you can snap to the spokes), holding it against the braking surface, and sliding it up against the bead trying to get it over.

if that doesn't work... try baby powder, and if that doesn't work, soapy water.

[MattTuck]

yep. i got my death grip on the tire levers (have tried park and trek), using the blunt end to try and push the bead over the rim. that's where i keep losing the tension and my hand goes smashing into the rim!! I'm sure I can still shift, too bad I won't be able to until I can get this thing figured out!

So what exactly is the tactic i should be using with the tire levers? I am using the blunt end as i said (not the end that you can snap to the spokes), holding it against the braking surface, and sliding it up against the bead trying to get it over.


That sounds about right to me. I'm assuming you already have one bead into the rim?

The second bead, I generally work around there's just the small bit that won't go in. At that point, I'll use 2 (sometimes 3) levers all parallel to eachother, and maybe an inch apart from one another, simultaneously to try to get the bead to flip over.

Depends on the levers as to their length (mechanical advantage).

I sometimes find that gripping with hands and trying to stretch the tire out a bit can help. I don't know whether this is recommended or not, but I've done it on occasion.

[MattTuck]

yep. i got my death grip on the tire levers (have tried park and trek), using the blunt end to try and push the bead over the rim. that's where i keep losing the tension and my hand goes smashing into the rim!! I'm sure I can still shift, too bad I won't be able to until I can get this thing figured out!

So what exactly is the tactic i should be using with the tire levers? I am using the blunt end as i said (not the end that you can snap to the spokes), holding it against the braking surface, and sliding it up against the bead trying to get it over.

Actually, just re-read your description.

You don't want to be PUSHING it.

You want to use the tire lever like a lever. That is, pivoting the lever with the fulcrum being the rim.... think of it as making the tire want to slide down the lever into the rim.

[cinema]

Actually, just re-read your description.

You don't want to be PUSHING it.

You want to use the tire lever like a lever. That is, pivoting the lever with the fulcrum being the rim.... think of it as making the tire want to slide down the lever into the rim.

so do i use the blunt end to grasp the inside of the rim, pull it up and over and try to roll the tire over the backend of the tire lever into the rim? i was trying this earlier but feared damaging or bending the rim

[akelman]

If I'm understanding what you're doing, and you're using plastic tire irons, you'll break the iron long before you hurt the rim (I think). And I feel your pain: Protons and Neutrons are notorious for making people miserable in just this way. And GP4000s are equally notorious for being incredibly hard to mount, especially when they're new. A few weeks back, I flatted while riding on Protons with GP4000s. I managed to get the tube changed and the tire re-seated -- only after a solid twenty minutes of seriously hard labor -- and then discovered that the new tube I had put in had a faulty valve stem. I almost called my wife to come pick me up. The twenty or thirty people who rode by in the interim, all of whom kindly offered to help, were no comfort.

[cinema]

akelman, that sounds horrible!
Matt, I'm taking your advice, gonna get some balls, and use the lever like a lever. hopefully i'll be back with some seated tires

[Idris Icabod]

Yep, I cursed my tires on to my Neutron Ultra and then was dreading getting a flat out in the world, when I did the tires must have stretched nicely as they weren't too bad on the roadside with only thumbs. No advice really apart from go have a beer or two and come back well rested. Although, don't use Ti levers, I did once and gouged a particularly tight aluminum rim, levers went straight in to the recycling bin.

[Dekonick]

Try this:

Mount your new tires to another wheel - do it a couple of times. Inflate etc...

This might help make the bead a little more cooperative... :beer:

[MattTuck]

akelman, that sounds horrible!
Matt, I'm taking your advice, gonna get some balls, and use the lever like a lever. hopefully i'll be back with some seated tires

If you're using plastic levers, as akelman says, you should be ok.

We've all been there at one time or another. Just get with your cycling zen and take it in stride.


And, once you get it on.... be SUPER SURE that the tube is seated correctly. I usually inflate to 50 PSI, totally deflate, reinflate to 50 PSI, deflate all the way, then inflate to 100ish, and deflate all the way, and then FINALLY inflate to whatever I want.

This serves three main purposes. 1.) superstition. (also, I only do this when changing tires at home, not on the road), 2.) ensuring there are no pinches or issues with the seating, and 3.) confirming there aren't any weak spots on the new tube that might crop up a mile or two down the road.

[dixiesdad]

I followed the advise of using another thinner tape on the rim and not the one supplied. I cannot remember the tape but I think I used the zipp tape. as for the conti tires I think Conti as joke on the world makes there tires just a bit small to get back at all of us who think the germans may partake of a bit too much brew. I am not in that camp just a thought. I use the pedros plastic levels and lever the poop out of them and have never pinched a tire. I also use the baby powder trick. good luck!

[pdmtong]

good advice from all...after this first install, the rest is easily done by hand. so perservere. these tires wear like iron. best of all worlds for me (comfort, adhesion, durabiliyt, price)

[akelman]

Dekonick's suggestion is a good one. As is Matt's about inflating your tube slowly and carefully. And yes, before you do any of that, you should walk away and relax for a few minutes. Then, after all is said and done, and the tire is finally on and you've gone for a ride to clear your head, you should come home, sit down at the keyboard, and buy yourself a couple of Michelin Pro Race 3s. Sure, you might flat a bit more frequently, but they're incredibly easy to get on and off your rims, even those rims.

[zott28]

+1 on the baby powder, works on Specialized armadillos, which I think are the hardest tires to put on.

[John M]

After you wear out the contis, try Schwalbe next time. I used to be a faithful continental rider, but all I buy new now are Schwalbe. Good balance between price and performance, and they are easier to install.

[MadRocketSci]

bring it to the shop...they know the tricks. then, you'll know their tricks.

As for pushing vs. levering, I brought my neutron + prorace 3 to velotech in palo alto a while back...tom, the owner/mechanic, just sort of leaned on the lever with his weight, from a standing position, sliding the tire lever along the rim and it just plunked into place. He gave me a "so what was the problem?" kinda look afterwards...

[Louis]

Have you ever tried one of these? Crank Bros Speed Lever (http://www.kk.org/cooltools/archives/001005.php)

They help quite a bit and I use mine all the time.

http://www.kk.org/cooltools/archives/speed_lever2.jpg

[cinema]

got the first one seated using matts technique, but on the second one, i didnt end up pinching the tube but did pinch my finger/nail between the rim and the bead. I've been wrenching for a couple years and never had a problem like this! I even seated attack/force tires to eurus rims last year. it sucked, but I got them on much more quickly. hanging up the wheels and will try again another day.

[jsfoster]

I lever the poop out of them and have never pinched a tire. I also use the baby powder trick. .
Always use the baby powder AFTER you lever the poop out of them...Oh, you mean the wheels...

[AngryScientist]

go buy one of these, and your problems with tough tires will forever be over, the quick stick

http://bloombikeshop.com/images/products/quikstikblue250.jpg

[thwart]

First of all, heat the tire in the sun (or similar). Important step.

Use plastic rim strips---no Velox. No Velox. No Velox.

Use the tire lever like a fulcrum as some have mentioned. Talcum powder helps.

And finally, assume the attitude that it will go on. Dammit. ;)

I've had uniformly good luck with side-of-the-road tire changes... relatively little struggle once the tire is stretched.

And remember, this design is meant to prevent the tire from easily coming off the rim with a flat and causing loss of control.

[MadRocketSci]

forgot to add...this seems to work for people also....

http://www.amazon.com/Kool-Stop-Tire-Bead-Jack/dp/B001AYML7K

[endosch2]

I have never had that problem with PR3s.

[cinema]

all of these options i will keep in mind for the future... i will try heating/stretching the tire tomorrow. I honestly have never seen anything like this...

[vqdriver]

just to put it out there. i'd double check to make sure you've got it facing the way you want it before it gets on there. doesn't sound like something you want to do over.

[veloduffer]

Best tool for hard to mount tires is the VAR tool
See:
VAR Tool (http://compare.ebay.com/like/310238521852?ltyp=AllFixedPriceItemTypes&var=sbar)
VAR Tool review by Randonneur (http://randonneurextra.blogspot.com/2009/02/making-life-easier-var-tire-lever.html)

For getting tough tires off, especially on the road try these:
Soma tool (http://store.somafab.com/stcotile.html ) You should buy and carry two pair, in case one does break by chance; but they are the best levers on the market.

And this place has the VAR cheaper then the E-bay site I gave: Var tool from Bike Tools (http://www.biketoolsetc.com/Products/VR-425C.html)

[terry]

sorry, maybe i've had too many beers but i can't stop laughing at this thread. bleeding fingers, special tire levers...i gotta a say it-i love riding tubulars.

[I'm New Here]

I have to disagree with recommendation for the Soma levers.

They sound like a great idea but while changing (someone else's) tire on the side of the road both my Soma levers broke at the tip where the metal ends and the cross section is all plastic. If you can really jam the lever between the tire and the rim they might be ok. But I will never trust them again.

They are very heavy too!

My $.02.

[Louis]

sorry, maybe i've had too many beers but i can't stop laughing at this thread. bleeding fingers, special tire levers...i gotta a say it-i love riding tubulars.

Terry,

1) I have some tubulars (Conti Competitions) currently on stretching rims. I'm a Tubular Newbie and have never done a glue-job before but have purchased some flux brushes and Conti glue. What procedure do you suggest?

2) How do you suggest I handle a flat while out on the road? Spare tubular? If so, how do you suggest I carry it? Do you have a special folding process?

PS All the statements above are true and these are serious questions for which I would like answers, but I ask partly in jest if only to make the additional point that tubulars come with an even larger can of worms.

[batman1425]

Try putting them in your clothes dryer for 10 min. No I'm not kidding. Heating up the rubber will allow it to expand a bit, giving you the extra room you need to mount them up with out destroying your fingers. Just don't leave them in so long that they start to melt or burn. I had a pair of Campy Zonda rims that had the same problem and used this trick a few times with good success.

[cinema]

sorry, maybe i've had too many beers but i can't stop laughing at this thread. bleeding fingers, special tire levers...i gotta a say it-i love riding tubulars.

Schadenfreude will most likely be any tubie rider's response to this thread :bike:

[soulspinner]

When new I throw tires in the clothes dryer for long enuff to be able to get em on without levers. I havent tried gp4000s, but works for other tires.......ymmv

[vqdriver]

don't cotton tires shrink in the dryer??? :D

[Tim]

Try something that Lennard Zinn recommends- mount the tire so that that area near the valve goes on last. This allows the tire bead to sink into the center of the rim on the side opposite the valve and gives you a little bit of play when trying to get that last bit of the tire over the rim.
I never thought this would make a difference-because I've always stared on the valve side when mounting tires- but I had a flat in the summer with a nearly new tire, and was expecting a battle getting the tire back on after I changed the tube- but it went on surprisingly easy.

[TAW]

+1 on the baby powder, works on Specialized armadillos, which I think are the hardest tires to put on.

Soapy water will help. But I second this about the armadillos. I work at a Specialized shop and I hate it when people buy those and want me to put them on. I take them in the back so that the customer doesn't see what it takes to get them seated.

[Jason E]

You should get a basteing brush from the kitchen and glaze the rims in Olive Oil, while the tires are in the oven at 150 for about 10 minutes. After the tires are done, you've made a mess of the kitchen, your garage/bike room, and everything smells like a salad from a gas station take out, you should sit there and reevaluate your hobbies.

:)

[Louis]

I remember when I as a kid one of my buddies had a bike with non-pneumatic tires. Hard as a rock. He could go anywhere and do anything with that bike and not worry about flats. For some reason we didn't worry about comfort back then.

[dave thompson]

Use one of these Kool Stop lever jacks, works with every recalcitrant tire I've ever had.

[rdparadise]

forgot to add...this seems to work for people also....

http://www.amazon.com/Kool-Stop-Tire-Bead-Jack/dp/B001AYML7K

I bought one of these for a pair of Hutchinson's that were driving me crazy. Worked like a charm with a second pair of hands. No pinch flats either.

Bob

Ps. Best $15 bucks I've spent on cycling.

[Blue Jays]

Liberal use of talcum powder does the trick when mounting Continental GP 4000s tires to Campagnolo rims.

[Bud_E]

go buy one of these, and your problems with tough tires will forever be over, the quick stick

http://bloombikeshop.com/images/products/quikstikblue250.jpg

+1

That and cussing and swearing a lot .

[Louis]

Maybe I just lack imagination, but can someone please explain to me how these work? Thanks

http://forums.thepaceline.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=73728&stc=1

[soulspinner]

don't cotton tires shrink in the dryer??? :D

No no, no dryer sheets! :p Seriously, it works...

[djg]

Terry,

1) I have some tubulars (Conti Competitions) currently on stretching rims. I'm a Tubular Newbie and have never done a glue-job before but have purchased some flux brushes and Conti glue. What procedure do you suggest?

2) How do you suggest I handle a flat while out on the road? Spare tubular? If so, how do you suggest I carry it? Do you have a special folding process?

PS All the statements above are true and these are serious questions for which I would like answers, but I ask partly in jest if only to make the additional point that tubulars come with an even larger can of worms.


Look at the Park tools web site -- pretty good set of instructions for tubular tires. A truing stand is very helpful. Make sure you go edge to edge on the rim bed, thin, even coats, and make sure you let that first layer set properly before number 2. It's not rocket science -- work carefully and neatly the first couple of times and it will be fine.

[wss]

Maybe I just lack imagination, but can someone please explain to me how these work? Thanks

http://forums.thepaceline.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=73728&stc=1

See Veloduffers post #30 in this thread. I have a pair of these also . In the 80's I had a pair of Campy Omega XL's that I dreaded getting flats on the road. I ended up replacing them.
http://randonneurextra.blogspot.com/2009/02/making-life-easier-var-tire-lever.html

[OtayBW]

I'm gonna catch hell for this, but after an ~hour of trying to put a GP Attack (or was that a Force?) onto a Nucleon rim, I finally went out to the truck and got a couple of small vice grips. Came back in and padded the rim and very lightly secured the almost fully seated tire to the rim with the vice grips in two places. This allowed me to finish the job with standard tire flips, but even that wasn't easy.

Hardest tire I ever installed, bar none.

[bluesea]

Try something that Lennard Zinn recommends- mount the tire so that that area near the valve goes on last. This allows the tire bead to sink into the center of the rim on the side opposite the valve and gives you a little bit of play when trying to get that last bit of the tire over the rim.
.



That's the #1 trick to mounting tires--the same technique you would use on your motocrosser's back tire. Start 180 degrees down from the valve, and work your way up evenly on both sides.

I use Campy rims for the very reason that they are spec-ed tight. It's still surprising (and re-assuring) when that first bead snaps into the rim well.

[cinema]

Good news! my wounds haven't healed, but I got the tire seated on the rim doing standard lever movements per matts advice over the course of a half hour today. for a while the tire just kept getting seating on one end and then unseated on the other as i moved around the rim. eventually i made it. I think it had something to do with the pressure of the tube, i kept inflating/deflating until i found a malleable enough pressure for the tire to hold it's shape/snap onto the rim.

[StellaBlue]

We all have tires we prefer but it's more important to ME to have a tire I can actually change on the road. This made me switch from 23 to 25 mm Vittoria open C's on my Neutrons.They slip on like a glove sans levers. I'm not gonna carry talc or soap on the road an I'd rather not use levers. They can pinch a tube and then you're screwed..

So many nice tires out there. Choose one that actually functions well w/ you wheel of choice..