Carbon Tubular Wheelset for Racing Use

[FlaRider]

I am a 35+ Masters racer who races mostly crits and the occassional road race. I'm considering buying, as a race-only wheelset, either a set of Zipp 404 tubulars or a set of Reynolds Stratus DV or DV-UL wheels. I live in Florida, so most of the races I do are very flat. Anybody racing either of these wheels have any thoughts? Pros/cons? Thanks.

[vaxn8r]

Do a search, I recently started a few threads on the reynolds.

[lnomalley]

for flat crits there is no wheel better than a mavic cosmic carbone. zipps .. well i just made a post about how i will never use them again in a crit.... they are much better suited for a road race.... you coulnd't pay me to use them in a crit.

its only my opinion but i swear by it. i dont want to bash product...
but i think you'd be stupid to race a flat crit on anything but the carbones.

[madbiker]

I have the zipp 404's.
I do really like them. That said, if all my racing were done on flat roads, then I'd rather have the Carbones, only because I feel that the parts, hubs, etc. are probably of better quality.
I don't think you can really go wrong with either.

[sspielman]

The most overlooked advantage of Mavic Cosmic Carbones is that they have a real braking surface. There is no need to change brake shoes and you can actually stop with them...even in the rain! I find carbon braking surfaces unacceptable. Cosmic Carbones are the greatest go-fast wheels ever (for everything except climbing)....

[Bill Bove]

I have never rode the Carbones but I have sold a few pair. Please tell me why everyone who rides them loves them so much? Jerk? To me they look like a Reflex rim laced up to Ksyrium hubs with a carbon fairing. The carbon is not structural, the spokes simply pass through it to the rim. So is that then their advantage? They are a simple box section rimmed wheel with a lightweight fairing?

FlaRider, I like Campy Eurus', the best all a round wheel I've ridden. Not carbon but super durable, more affordable than most carbon wheels AND they're CAMPAGNOLO, the best damn components made! :-)

[Rich_W]

Please tell me why everyone who rides them loves them so much?

As a former owner of a set (which I still regret parting with...) They are simply fast! Once you get those suckers rolling you feel this very apparent rolling inertia that keeps them going. Prolly the fastest wheel on the flats.

They climb like poo... but once at speed, they are easy to keep at speed.

However... my favorite for all-around use is a mid V... 303s, A/C 38's, A/C CR420s, light yet still fast, and they climb light. As for braking, I think they work better for light riders.

[dbrk]

If you want a great pair of Carbones then I just traded one pair of Mavic Cosmic Carbones circa 2002ish (in as new condition) and one pair of Ksyriums (before the multiple models, also new-ish) to Craig Smith, the Mendon Cyclesmith Bike Shop. Craig has them for sale at, I am sure, very fair prices. You can reach him at 585-624-2120, he will ship anywhere. These were my wheels and barely used. (I'm getting just normal 3x, much more my style since I've no personal racing aspirations.)

dbrk

[sspielman]

I have never rode the Carbones but I have sold a few pair. Please tell me why everyone who rides them loves them so much? Jerk? To me they look like a Reflex rim laced up to Ksyrium hubs with a carbon fairing. The carbon is not structural, the spokes simply pass through it to the rim. So is that then their advantage?
The carbon section on Carbones does perform a structural function. It is glued to the rim and so it becomes a part of the structure....although it is true that it does not support the stress of the spoke tension directly....the aluminum rim does that. The rims are not reflexes (for tubular) but a model-specific rim. They are about 1.5-2 mm narrower than a Reflex rim (which is fat). It is enough of a difference to require a turn or two of the brake adjustment ferrule when switching between models. I think that the secret to the Carbones sucess is that they hit so many high points for serviceability...They are not light, but they are lighter than a similar cross sectioned wheel of pure aluminum....They have just enough spokes and rim cross section for adequate lateral stiffness for a rider of average or below weight...they are VERY aero....Their braking performance is the same as a standard wheel.....they look great...

[lnomalley]

the thing that makes me love the carbones is the way they feel. i am one of those people that can sit on a bike and tell you what your tire presssure is, how long your chainstays are and what your bb drop is..i am a freak that way... the carbones want to be pushed to the limit, are totally predictable, and are stiff in one direction and just compliant enough in the other. the zipps are cooler looking, lighter, and too stiff to deal with extreme cornering. the mavic hubs are better too (if you keep them lubed).

[FlaRider]

Thanks a lot for the feedback, guys. I've decided on the Reynolds Stratus DV tubulars. :banana: :banana: :banana: I'll post a review when I get them.

[Bill Bove]

Thanks a lot for the feedback, guys. I've decided on the Reynolds Stratus DV tubulars. :banana: :banana: :banana: I'll post a review when I get them.
What? After all that above about how great the Carbones are?
I'm going to borrow a pair and give them some use, the only way to know is to do.

[FlaRider]

Bill, I'm sure the Carbones are great wheels but they're about 400 to 500 grams heavier than the Reynolds and slightly more expensive, which made the decision actually quite easy. Take care.

[lnomalley]

Bill, I'm sure the Carbones are great wheels but they're about 400 to 500 grams heavier than the Reynolds and slightly more expensive, which made the decision actually quite easy. Take care.

i've never been in a crit where the weight of the rim mattered. its silly to make decisions on weight (sometime a heavier wheel carries monentum better when you are maintaiing speed) and in a crit you'll only notice the weight at the start for the first five pedal strokes. now.. if i were doing a road race with multiple climbs... the weight would factor in. i still use the carbones in road races when the climb are under 5oo' and allow you to carry momentum (like the road circuit at valley of the sun for instance).

so yes rim weight is a factor... but not always in the direction you think. i am willing to bet you in a blind test between the reynolds and the mavics that you would pick the mavics.

ok, enough of me ranting about wheels...that's all i've got to offer of any worth.

[vaxn8r]

How do you know that? Have you raced each of them?

Weight matters, especially a pound when you're talking wheels.

The Mavics may have a bit more deep dish to them than the Reynolds but 500g is significant to me. Hills or not, there's a lot of accelerating/sprinting in crits.

[lnomalley]

yes (*puffs out chest and laughs at self).... many times on the same course and in the same day... as recently as last week...on both reynolds and zipps (although most recently zipps and cosmics on a technical crit with a hill.. the cosmics felt much faster, thank you, and they didn't chatter out everytime i pushed the bike aggressively in a turn). just started racing the cosmics this year (i've done 15 of twenty races on them since feb).... and find them to be a revelation (like, why didn't somebody turn me on to these things before?). but, i'm not gonna talk you into them... so good luck and enjoy your carbon wheels!

i'll be on the cosmics tomorrow in another crit with a hill..... my carbon wheels will be in my closet. i am using them at one last road race in a few weeks and then its ebay... where i will be buying a second set of cosmics.
really.
:)

i weigh (crap "ie"... or "ei") between 148 and 155... i love light stuff...but you'll have to pry the cosmics from my cold dead hands. (i'll have around 50+ days racing by the end of the season... which makes me offically a huge fredrick).

look, if you were doing 90% road races i'd say the carbon wheel is the way to go with out a doubt... and i'd say it enthusiastically... but i think you are on crack if crits are your thing....and its not like mavic is my sponsor.

ok.. end wheel rant for me. i am not gonna say any more nice things unless they start paying me. ask the jerk.. he lords over this forum with his d-1 gutter-time, he's suffered things i've only dreamt about.. he'll know what i am talking about....i'm just a masters poseur trying to survive the odd postal guy or two on their fancy serottas....

or do this..pick the fastest most techinical crit and go look at what wheels the guys are on that crashed out in the corners (in your category)... and i'll bet you a five-spot they are carbon or that the guy that took them out chattered off his line on carbon...
its not just about weight... rarely is the guy that wins on the lightest bike.
jerk, help me out here.. i have no crediblity with this guy....and i feel like an a** raving about these wheels here lately.

but i am right(teheheh)! reynolds and zipps make great wheels for the right application. good people, they are supportive and involved on a local level, passionate about their product.... i dont want to take anything away from them.... great for road races (a different kind of cornering than a crit).

ok. that was exhausting.

[vaxn8r]

Glad you like them.

Your post made me laugh too.

[chrisroph]

Anybody still riding shamals?

[Miranda]

Gosh! After reading these posts now I wish I had the money to buy both the Mavic Carbones and Reynolds Stratus tubular wheelsets! Out of curiousity How do the Campy Bora G3 wheels rate? Are they multipurpose?

[Too Tall]

InoMal That was a GREAT rant my man and I've got two guys who are going to loan me some Carbones so I can check them out. I don't think the chattering thing is rampant in carbon wheels (read to the end). I have raced 303's in "crack" crits and because of my weight they stick like glue (203lbs). Yes, the lack of weight does feel odd to me at times almost like the wheels should be on top not the bike!!! I too am done racing them however it is becuase I've got a Nimble Fly tub front and Nimble Crosswind tub rear which are amazing for "crack-crits"...light and strong like moose and squirrel. The 303's after serving in RAAM and many races get retired to wife's race rig where they belong :)

I guess I'm not convinced that the problem is the wheels as much as the right equipment for the rider and application...but that's why I maintain two race ready bikes and a big quiver of wheels to choose from.

Again, from one crack-crit old fart to another, I like your style dood :)