Tubular Rims

[musgravecycles]

ok folks time for some imput,

I'm getting ready to build up a set of tubbies, and though it would be good to get some rim imput from folks who ride them alot. They are going to be 3x 36 hole, tied and soldered in the rear at least, maybe front...

I've got a set of Campagnolo Barcelona's sitting in a box down at the shop. I have built alot of wheels with these and they are one of the best rims I've used.

I've also been tempted by Ambrosio F20's as of late. I have never built with the F20s but I've always heard they are great. What is the difference between the F20 and the Nemesis 2000, they look the same to me (same profile and weight).
http://www.ambrosiospa.com/provajpg/pag100.htm

Any other good choices out there?

[dirtdigger88]

I am not really going to add anything besides a question- how do the various rims compare to Mavic Reflex? I ask because I am still wanting to try a set of tubbies- like I said in a previous post- I have a set of wheels built up by Texas CycleSport- DA10 and OpenPros but they also do Reflex rims for the same price- I could get into a set of tubbie wheels for around $300- of course then I will need a cassette- oh and two tubbies- so I guess I am still going to drop over $600 on the wheels when I am all finished :crap:

How are Reflex rims?

Jason

[mad_mark]

ok folks time for some imput,

I'm getting ready to build up a set of tubbies, and though it would be good to get some rim imput from folks who ride them alot. They are going to be 3x 36 hole, tied and soldered in the rear at least, maybe front...

I've got a set of Campagnolo Barcelona's sitting in a box down at the shop. I have built alot of wheels with these and they are one of the best rims I've used.

I've also been tempted by Ambrosio F20's as of late. I have never built with the F20s but I've always heard they are great. What is the difference between the F20 and the Nemesis 2000, they look the same to me (same profile and weight).
http://www.ambrosiospa.com/provajpg/pag100.htm

Any other good choices out there?

The F20 is approx 340gm, the Nemeisis approx 420gm. It's like comparing a GL330 to a Paris-Roubaix SSC. The weight difference comes from width and wall thickness.

Mark.

[musgravecycles]

oops,

my dyslexic mind was reading 430 and 340 as the same number. They are both 13x20.

Anyway any input on any of these (includding reflex's for Dirt) or any other tubbie rims.

[mad_mark]

oops,

my dyslexic mind was reading 430 and 340 as the same number. They are both 13x20.

Anyway any input on any of these (includding reflex's for Dirt) or any other tubbie rims.

My experience says they are slightly different in measure, enough that pads need realigning slightly if your really picky.

They are nice rims, I'd go for those or Fir over Mavic Reflex any day. The wheels you describe, I'd go for a NOS pair of SSC, Pulsars, or Nemisis 2000, I'd tie them both and mount a set of Vittoria Pave :p

The Reflex rim is real wide, I've never seen a clincher rim match it so pads don't need aligning to suit.

Mark.

[Too Tall]

I'm riding Velocity Escape's in 32. 2X front and 2 cross/3 cross rear using DT Aero spokes and alumn. nipples. AWESOME tubular training wheelset.

[William]

.......and clinchers suck! ;)



William

[Too Tall]

Right!

Clinchers suck.

[CalfeeFly]

I had a the F20 built up and I love them. Super rim. The person who built them is fantastic in his knowledge. Since he raced in Europe he is familiar with brands not heavily marketed here yet they are a great product. (For example my new post, stem and handlebar are Selcof.) He felt that Campy made some of the best rims ever but you can't find them easily any longer. He also is a fan of Fir and my clinchers are the Zenith. With either the Campy you have or the F20 you can't go wrong. I'd use a different rim than what I have already for the variety. I'd also guess the F20 is a good deal lighter than your Campy rim yet the F20 is strong. I had mine built with King hubs, Sapim Race spokes on all but the driveside which are lasers. They are in the 1450 to 1500 grams range. I used Tufos with sealant. I know they don't roll like a Veloflex but they are tough and I city ride for the most part. :bike:

[theprep]

musgravecycles

I think the only difference between an F20 and a Nemesis is the weight. O wait..there is a fancy Gold tag over the valve hole on the Nemesis and it is more $.

If I had to guess, when Ambrosio is extruding the rims, the first ones to come off of the machine have the thinnest walls and are called F20's. The die's wear a little more and the rim walls become thicker, the rim a little heavier, they call these rims "Montreal's". When they become thicker/heavier still, they tag em Nemesis.

All of these seem to be great rims by the way. They build up super straight. All (3) have double eyelets, same finish, same rim joint and no machined breaking surface.

Dirt
I have no experience with the Mavic Reflex, but it has a reputation of being pretty tough and because of its width, would make a great cyclocross rim for fat 34mm tires. With the DA 10 hubs, that is a great deal.

Here is some of my recent tubular rim experience:

Velocity Escape - 391, 394 grams - these are laced to DA10 hubs with light spokes, alloy nips and I have not had to touch them in over 3,000 miles. A big plus with these is the machined braking surface.

Ambrosio Nemesis - 450g, rear wheel on cross bike, just survived 1st cross season with ease.

Ambrosio Montreal - 436g, front wheel on cross bike, aok

Fir Isidis from fellow forum member "Madmark" - 385g, 392g - only a couple rides on these. Mike Garcia built these up with some Speedcific hubs, very nice, inexpensive and about 1430 grams for the wheelset. The super low profile rim looks great on my CIII.

Ambrosio F20 - 362, 361, Spicoli has a set that were in the 340's that he loves and can't kill. I did have a problem with the brake track on an F20 and had to return them.

Sun M19 something or other - 350's these were tough to build straight and when I did the braking surface was horrible. I returned these right away.

O ...by the way, someone is selling pairs of brand new Mavic GL280's and GL330's right now on ebay for $60/pair.
cheers

[Spicoli]

F20 hoops 32 hole 345gr.(actual,not claimed) D/A 7800 hubset. Spoking= front x2 XL14's./rear x2 non drive XL14's/rear x3 drive DB14/alu. nipples.
1465gr. for wheelset.

They are frikken fast! Absolutly no rotational weight so if you enjoy sprinting or climbing you cant do much better. Most of the weight is at the hub so who cares? They have a very compliant ride and if my fat *** can't killem they are pretty tough even for a no frills stripped down race hoop. Big fan and you will be hard pressed to find a wheel that winds up faster. Unless you are totally into the look of tie and soldered wheels dont waste your time. Pain in the *** if you do break a spoke or have to true for any reason the tieing can be annoying.

oh yeah I forgot, you really cant go wrong with the barcelonas x3 36hole. Although you may get sick of looking at them since you will probably have them for the rest of you life. Tie and solder on those may be worth it since you may never have to true them. Dont think I would want to race em.

[Too Tall]

Today I was prepping my rebuilt Zipp 404 Pave for tyres and noticed something new! The rim has a gutter / groove built into the center ala the EXACT freakin' thing we were discussing some time ago. An ideal rim profile "wish list" included such a profile. How cool is that? You could glue some serious rubber to these puppys.

Eric will have the scoopage and details, anxiously await a proclaimation! Anyone know if this feature is included for their entire line or just Pave'?

Tubular heaven just got a little larger.

[Fixed]

I'm riding Velocity Escape's in 32. 2X front and 2 cross/3 cross rear using DT Aero spokes and alumn. nipples. AWESOME tubular training wheelset.
bro that sonds like a good race set .i.m.h.o.
cheers
i'm using gl330 with mavic hubs dt spokes and brass nips. 32 's 3 cross

[Tom Kellogg]

I have used Reflex rims for years on my training and rain race wheels. One of the most comfortable rims ever. I think my front wheel has well over 20,000 miles on it. I can't even remember how many years ago I built it. I think I may have tweeked one nipple once, maybe.

Having said that, I only get about 4,000 miles out of a rear Reflex. The spokes pull on the right side eventually. I do tend to lace somewhat tight, but not like a banjo. I ride in the range of 150 to 155 lbs depending on whether June has been buying me ice cream or not. (Mint Choc. chip)

I have an NOS Campy Sygma Pave that I will rebuild my rear training wheel up with later today. I expect it to last about a bazilion miles. My stock of Mavic SSCs ran out a few years back. I do still have one of the old GP-4s, but believe it or not, it is a 40 hole rim. What a waste.

Tubulars are better, nuf said.

[Fixed]

tubulars and steel the stuff that works bro . sweet
cheers

[chrisroph]

TK, rode my '87 spec steel yesterday, what a great handling and riding machine. I rode it with clinchers but will take it out soon with the campy 28's with NOS SSC rims that I want to tie and solder.

[ergott]

Today I was prepping my rebuilt Zipp 404 Pave for tyres and noticed something new! The rim has a gutter / groove built into the center ala the EXACT freakin' thing we were discussing some time ago. An ideal rim profile "wish list" included such a profile. How cool is that? You could glue some serious rubber to these puppys.

Eric will have the scoopage and details, anxiously await a proclaimation! Anyone know if this feature is included for their entire line or just Pave'?

Tubular heaven just got a little larger.

The groove is standard issue for Zipp rims.

I'll put in a vote for the Escape rims.

I also like the Pro Elite these days. I don't think the added weight is a disadvantage on all but the most impossible climbs that I don't do. They are more aerodynamic than the box rims so they will be faster in almost every condition. You won't need 36 spoke unless you weigh A LOT. The rims are also significantly stiffer so I like the improved handling of stiff rims combined with higher spoke counts. The best way to build higher spoke count wheels is to use lighter gauge spokes. It is beneficial to the durability of the wheels.

As far as tie and solder, do it for cosmetic reasons only. The empirical evidence has weighed in and there is no performance to be gained from T&S. The argument of when a spoke breaks, it prevents the spoke from flopping around can be debunked if you simply build wheels correctly and don't break spokes.

[Too Tall]

Heheh, Eric I suspect Christop is doing for the MoJo and not a real world reason. Christoph? You just want to play am I right?