Never been burned so bad.

[thendenjeck]

I just got burned worse than I thought possible, short of a complete and total scam. bought a bike from CL (mistake right there, although I've mostly had really good experiences), and to be a decent guy I sent the payment as a gift through paypal. well, after the SOB had my money for over a week, he finally sent the bike. Bike arrives, parts of the bike are sticking out all over the box. no padding whatsoever. Cane Creek wheels missing their hub covers. one wheel has a hop. SELLER TOOK THE FREAKING CHAINRINGS OFF and sent me FOUR chainring bolts and no rings. BB is cross threaded. paint is almost non-existent. photo of bike had to have been at least 3 yrs old.

and the worst part is, since I sent the money as gift, I can't open a resolution, so I'm stuck with the bike. I will never buy a bike shipped again, as I've had similar things off of ebay, luckily with legal ties to resolution.

on another note, I bought a saddle from a forumite across the hall, he shipped it that day without even getting a penny from me, saddle arrived in two days in perfect condition.


sorry, had to vent. :(

[oliver1850]

.

[Louis]

Bummer.

He'll get what's coming to him.

[csm]

what does "sent payment as a gift" mean?

[norcalbiker]

Bummer.

He'll get what's coming to him.

KARMA!!!

[AngryScientist]

ouch, sorry to hear about that, i've had largely positive experiences myself, and unless i have a good personal relationship with a seller, i wont send $ as a gift, then you have no recourse whatsoever.

good luck, karma will get him.

[oliver1850]

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[norcalbiker]

This is why I do not buy anything on craigslist that required shipping. If I can't do a face to face transaction in a nice crowded area, then it is not for me. As for ebay, I only send money that I can afford to loose so I could still sleep at night, and that is $100 or less. So far I have been lucky on ebay. I do buy and sell on this forums and have been pretty good.

[thendenjeck]

Hope you can turn this streak of luck around soon. Can you get the threads straigtened out enough to get the bb in, or will it need to be rethreaded? If it's British, you can have it redone Italian. I've got several Italian bbs on hand. I can help you out with rings too, what do you need?


i actually just got a really killer job and things otherwise are pretty awesome. I'm just totally burned about this bike. :argue: :crap:

[Nil Else]

There's a newbie (my fault right there) across the hall who flat out lied on his classified ad and posted ever so perfectly angled photos of the item to avoid showing worn/damaged area and responded with lie to my specific email inquiry regarding the very issue. The reason I wanted a clean flawless item is that I needed to put it on my new flawless frame build. It was just cosmetic issue so I swallowed and just put him on my ignore list - Lesson learned. Unfortunately even in this neighborhood you need to take all precaution and consider all possibilities from some unscrupulous turds.

[MattTuck]

As much as I dislike most LBSs (for reasons I won't get into here), I still think the premium is worth it on high ticket (say greater than 300 bucks) for the peace of mind and implicit warranty in case something goes wrong.

I'm sure there are great sellers out there who take care of their product and are honest, but unless you're buying something really rare and/or no longer sold in stores, why not pay a few dollars extra?

[oliver1850]

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[oliver1850]

.

[MattTuck]

ok, just where is "across the hall" that gets referenced quite often?
why not go ahead and list the guy's screen name, so we all know who to avoid?

across the hall: velocipede salon
atmo: atleast that's my opinion
YMMV: your mileage may vary

[thendenjeck]

good, I'm glad to hear it. What's the frame, by the way?


casati victory

[Nil Else]

why not go ahead and list the guy's screen name, so we all know who to avoid?

Well because it's an across-the-hall issue and I don't wanna hang no one by their balls just for not disclosing scrapes and worn out areas...though he had all the intention of doing so that really gets me :mad:

[thegunner]

people suck, there's no way around it.

i don't think i'd do deals that require shipping (outside of here and a photography forum i frequent), and while this really does bring good perspective to the types of people that exist in the world, it also accentuates the type of good people collected here. :beer:

sorry man, hope it all works out for you (as in: minimize losses and hopefully the bike is still salvageable)

[ahumblecycler]

and the worst part is, since I sent the money as gift, I can't open a resolution, so I'm stuck with the bike. I will never buy a bike shipped again, as I've had similar things off of ebay, luckily with legal ties to resolution.



It would not have mattered if you had sent regular payment. PayPal will only provide protection for certified stores (e.g., Competitive Cyclist) and Ebay. I know from (bad - scam) personal experience.

I am truly sorry to hear about your situation. As someone mentioned, this area is one which it is hard to trump my LBS ... I just paid a lot more an item from him than I would have Ebay or what no and I feel great doing so.

[vqdriver]

risk-reward
the higher priced items are where you stand to save the most over a lbs, friendly as they might be, who are sometimes locked into pricing agreements. but of course, you have to weigh that against the risk of sellers like this. what a bummer.

[rugbysecondrow]

this is too bad. I have had one or two arrangements from craigslist and have always spoken to the people on the phone. Luckily I have had no issues, but I might have to abstain from now on.

[Onno]

It would never occur to me to buy from CL if it involved shipping, yet I shop on Ebay quite a bit. I guess Ebay seems more formal, and safer. I've had no bad experiences there, or on the few face to face CL purchases I've made.

[dixiesdad]

The only way to buy off craigs list is to see the item. I bought a raleigh pro from wisconsin a year ago and had a buddy of mine from Green Bay look at it for me and then shipped through the local bike shop. It costs me his gas and shipping. I realize that is rarely possible but maybe we could have a cottage industry of bike freaks who for say the cost of gas and $10 look at items up for sale and either email pics or give advise???? More time and cost involved but worth it. I would ship it back to the SOB with a few rats included. :D

[rugbysecondrow]

The only way to buy off craigs list is to see the item. I bought a raleigh pro from wisconsin a year ago and had a buddy of mine from Green Bay look at it for me and then shipped through the local bike shop. It costs me his gas and shipping. I realize that is rarely possible but maybe we could have a cottage industry of bike freaks who for say the cost of gas and $10 look at items up for sale and either email pics or give advise???? More time and cost involved but worth it. I would ship it back to the SOB with a few rats included. :D


I think we should have a brute squad that acts as a recovery service.

[Dosebase02]

Are you sure there is no way to get your money back or complaint?

[palincss]

Well because it's an across-the-hall issue and I don't wanna hang no one by their balls just for not disclosing scrapes and worn out areas...though he had all the intention of doing so that really gets me :mad:

So do it across the hall, but not here.

[Nil Else]

So do it across the hall, but not here.

Pardon moi but if you don't mind, my response was in response to the OP's comment:

"on another note, I bought a saddle from a forumite across the hall, he shipped it that day without even getting a penny from me, saddle arrived in two days in perfect condition."

[palincss]

Pardon moi but if you don't mind, my response was in response to the OP's comment:

"on another note, I bought a saddle from a forumite across the hall, he shipped it that day without even getting a penny from me, saddle arrived in two days in perfect condition."

Well, regardless of what first impelled you to respond, if you had an issue with a seller across the hall -- didn't someone make you mad enough you wanted to hang them by their balls? -- then by all means you should pursue it across the hall. I'm sure they're very bit as interested there in maintaining the reputation of the classifieds on their forum as are the folks managing this one.

[Nil Else]

Well, regardless of what first impelled you to respond, if you had an issue with a seller across the hall -- didn't someone make you mad enough you wanted to hang them by their balls? -- then by all means you should pursue it across the hall. I'm sure they're very bit as interested there in maintaining the reputation of the classifieds on their forum as are the folks managing this one.

No. Lemme correct you. I said: I DID NOT wanna hang no one by their balls. And yes I might pursue it further over there but that's another matter, if you don't mind, than the discussion that's going on here right now.

[nahtnoj]

You have this guys name and address right?

Why don't you post it here.

My compost bin is getting full. Its about the size of a medium USPS flat rate box.

[rugbysecondrow]

You have this guys name and address right?

Why don't you post it here.

My compost bin is getting full. Its about the size of a medium USPS flat rate box.
My dogs leave little "treats" daily that I would gladly share. That would be hilarious...bombared with **** from all corners of the U.S.

[oliver1850]

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[firerescuefin]

My dogs leave little "treats" daily that I would gladly share. That would be hilarious...bombared with **** from all corners of the U.S.


I'm in! I've got a 2 year old and an 14 week old (sons, not dogs)...so I have no shortage of "prizes". I would be happy to eat a couple dollars of shipping to avenge your cause.

[rugbysecondrow]

I'm in! I've got a 2 year old and an 14 week old (sons, not dogs)...so I have no shortage of "prizes". I would be happy to eat a couple dollars of shipping to avenge your cause.
That's right, I have an 11 month old boy with a big appetite...justice will be had.

I am game, what's a few bucks for the betterment of society?

[oliver1850]

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[rugbysecondrow]

Duplicate post

[rugbysecondrow]

Suppose he would be stupid enough to open more after the first one?
Yep. People love getting packages and few would be able to throw them away with even peeking. His wife might be the one to get the mail...that would get his attention.

[vqdriver]

someone's gonna get busted......

[Ahneida Ride]

PM Uncle William ...

He can be employed at parsimonious prices. :cool:

I detest liars.

[Dosebase02]

If the guy burned you..you have his email and you can report him..

[dave thompson]

My dogs leave little "treats" daily that I would gladly share. That would be hilarious...bombared with **** from all corners of the U.S.
Incoming....from Washington!!

[Hai H. Ho]

If the guy burned you..you have his email and you can report him..

If I had the guy's email and he burned me, there would be a chance spam or freaky p0rn would overtake the inbox.

Best of luck OP.

[pbjbike]

Someone please post those wonderful lines from `Snatch` about bodies and a pig farm. ;)

[pbjbike]

Suppose he would be stupid enough to open more after the first one? Put Campy, Shimano, SRAM, Serotta stickers on the box...

[firerescuefin]

Someone please post those wonderful lines from `Snatch` about bodies and a pig farm. ;)

"Feed em to the pigs"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kBvCPTK1MmY

[slowandsteady]

A couple of things you should do right away.

You should start a fraud case with your local police dept. he may have done this before.

You should start a case at the FBI internet fraud website:
http://www.ic3.gov/default.aspx

You should start a fraud case with the shipper. If it was the USPS then it is a federal crime.

Print out the e-mails you and he sent and pics if any. Make sure you print the headers with each e-mail.

Dont just sit back and take this!!! Make a case with your local PD and make sure you send this freak a message that people won't take this type of abuse.

Post his name and address and e-mail in as many places as possible so that if people do a search before purchasing his name/address/e-mail/info will come up smeared.

Post on CL using his user name and e-mail about his scam.

Lastly, post his e-mail here on the forum and we can all start sending e-mails on your behalf everyday - piss the crap out of him!!!

[slowandsteady]

It would not have mattered if you had sent regular payment. PayPal will only provide protection for certified stores (e.g., Competitive Cyclist) and Ebay. I know from (bad - scam) personal experience.


Actually in a case like this Paypal (dirtbags that they are) will not cover you at all because a package was actually shipped and received. They consider the deal complete at that point. I know this for a fact as I got scammed last year on a high end watch purchase. The "seller" sent me a $5 POS and because he sent me a box and I accepted it, Paypal then wiped their hands of the deal.

I immediately filed a claim with my credit card co (AMEX) and they took care of reimbursing me for my loss. They actively research and prosecute fraudulent behaviour. I also filed cases with local Police, FBI and IC3.com followed by many postings on watch forums. Turns out 5 others were scammed by this dirtbag. We were finally able to track him down in CA. We got the local PD involved and set up a sting. He was a known felon and embezzled several hundred thousand dollars in watches over the previous several years. He was also wanted in Singapore (or maybe the philippines, I forget) for an $80K fraud he committed the previous year. His total amount of fraud was just a few thousand dollars shy of being a capital offense in his homeland. If his total reaches a given amount he would have been charged, extradited and possibly sentenced to death. - bizarre but all true.

Many times these a**holes work as "gangs" and do this to hundreds of people so your follow up is important!

[firerescuefin]

S&S...thanks for taking the time to post that...Very informative.

[pbjbike]

Here we go:

Brick Top: You're always gonna have problems lifting a body in one piece. Apparently the best thing to do is cut up a corpse into six pieces and pile it all together.

Sol: Would someone mind telling me, who are you?

Brick Top: And when you got your six pieces, you gotta get rid of them, because it's no good leaving it in the deep freeze for your mum to discover, now is it? Then I hear the best thing to do is feed them to pigs. You got to starve the pigs for a few days, then the sight of a chopped-up body will look like curry to a pisshead. You gotta shave the heads of your victims, and pull the teeth out for the sake of the piggies' digestion. You could do this afterwards, of course, but you don't want to go sievin' through pig ****, now do you? They will go through bone like butter. You need at least sixteen pigs to finish the job in one sitting, so be wary of any man who keeps a pig farm. They will go through a body that weighs 200 pounds in about eight minutes. That means that a single pig can consume two pounds of uncooked flesh every minute. Hence the expression, "as greedy as a pig".

Vinny: Well, thank you for that. That's a great weight off me mind. Now, if you wouldn't mind telling me who the ???? you are, apart from someone who feeds people to pigs of course?

Bullet Tooth Tony: I'm driving down the road with your head stuck in my window. What does it look like I'm doin'?

:beer:

[thendenjeck]

you guys are a riot. i really got a kick out of reading this thread, the idea of the guy getting boxes full of "gifts" is pretty hilarious. thanks for the support, this place is awesome!

and thanks for all the advice. I'll look into it and see what I can do. it's looking like there might be some small possibility it will be resolved soon.

the number of ways in which this bike is screwed up are unreal. and I can not believe how hard it is to find road-geared dbl rings in a 130 bcd in New York City, which is what I spent all day doing. the one place that had them, brand new 105's in the right tooth count, wouldn't sell them to me because they didnt know how much they were. :crap: when it rains it pours.... :rolleyes:

again, you guys rule, thanks

[r_mutt]

atmo: atleast that's my opinion


atmo = according to my opinion

[oliver1850]

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[oliver1850]

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[thendenjeck]

HA! blinded by post-shipping rage, i wandered the streets of manhattan, looking for the lost rings in all the wrong places

[oliver1850]

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[Jeff N.]

i actually just got a really killer job and things otherwise are pretty awesome. I'm just totally burned about this bike. :argue: :crap:
What kinda money we talkin' about here, if I may be so bold?

[thendenjeck]

At least you got some exercise out of it, since you couldn't ride.


nice one :bike:

[thendenjeck]

What kinda money we talkin' about here, if I may be so bold?


not sure if you mean the bike or the job, but i'd rather not say. not 2k or anything like it, but enough to be seriously annoying.

[Jeff N.]

not sure if you mean the bike or the job, but i'd rather not say. not 2k or anything like it, but enough to be seriously annoying.
Fair enough. (I meant the bike).

[oldpotatoe]

risk-reward
the higher priced items are where you stand to save the most over a lbs, friendly as they might be, who are sometimes locked into pricing agreements. but of course, you have to weigh that against the risk of sellers like this. what a bummer.

Most bike shop 'pricing agreements' are their attempt to sell at an industry recognized minimum of 35%(divide the cost by .65) that is just enough to keep the lights on, pay the rent, pay the payroll, essentially breaking even, making next to no net profit. The impression I get here is that it is thought that LBS' are charging lots, making huge profits, buying new Mercedes each year. The lowest margin in a bike shop is a bicycle. Compare to ski, other outdoor industries, jewelry(often marked up 200-300 percent) and bike shop margins are the lowest.

W/o the store front, pretty easy to sell at a lower price=web based resellers.

[jmeloy]

people suck, there's no way around it.

i don't think i'd do deals that require shipping (outside of here and a photography forum i frequent), and while this really does bring good perspective to the types of people that exist in the world, it also accentuates the type of good people collected here. :beer:

sorry man, hope it all works out for you (as in: minimize losses and hopefully the bike is still salvageable)
He and I just did a wheelset swap with $$ tossed in and it couldn't have worked better. I think both of us shipped at or pre-payment. We had a minor issue (miscommunicated on skewers) and cleaned it up with one positive PM exchange. He was a pleasure. That's how it ought to work here (and there).

[BumbleBeeDave]

across the hall: velocipede salon
atmo: atleast that's my opinion
YMMV: your mileage may vary

. . . it meant "According To My Opinion."

But, YMMV!

BBD

[thendenjeck]

situation got resolved. guy initially abusively refused to resolve the issue, and then today gave me most of my money back when presented with photos and the alternative, i.e. that i was not going to back down on the issue. BB turned out to be ok despite the cross threading. with the very awesome assistance of several LBS employees, a couple new parts, a couple used parts, a little time wrenching, and I have ended up with a pretty great ride for not much money. all's well that ends well. not to mention the whole fiasco kind of hyped me to the idea that NYC's not such a bad place after all.

thanks again all :beer:

[Pete Serotta]

Buyers please use caution if a new ID for a sale item.

There are many showing up. While most are ok odds are not 100% ok.

Please make sure you know who you are dealing with and it would be nice to have a phone number validated for them,


Just my opinion alone. Pete

[thendenjeck]

nice, my dillema is a sticky. :confused: :o :(

ahh, at least if it helps someone :) :beer: :no:

-10 points: overuse of emoticons

[Pete Serotta]

"If is sound too good to be true -- It might not be true"


Cheap items are not necessarily the least expensive overall.


price is very important but the initial price is not always the complete costs.


:confused: :confused: Yep everyone wants to buy for the cheapest but what does cheapest mean? It can costs additional $$s, additional time, stress, and less than fond memories..


After all said "If it keeps you happy than it is the right one for you personally" :)



I CAN NOT DRINK RED FOR ANOTHER 32 DAYS During my cancer TREATMENT SO I MIGHT NOT BE AS MELLOW AND MIGHT ALSO BECOME A DEEPER THINKER!!! That is fact for me as I go forward with hope for rides in late OCT.


Have a good evening and hopefully you have some RED or some great beer :beer: Pete