Energy drinks, GU, etc.

[rice rocket]

Any recommendation for electrolytes?

I'm new to the whole game of "sports nutrition"; most my physical activity has been weightlifting in the past (except swimming in my high school days), where pre-workout wasn't really necessary, and recovery was pretty simple with carbs followed by protein.

Problem on the bike is, I'm bonking out halfway through my workout. So far, I haven't done much more than have water in one bottle, Gatorade in the other...but even then I bonk really hard around 30 miles. Not only do I feel somewhat dizzy, I also cramp pretty bad in the quads.

I got an FRS sample pack that I'll have to read more about, but when/where am I using gel? Or should I be looking into water additives?

Suggestions or anecdotes appreciated.

[gauvink]

Any recommendation for electrolytes?

I'm new to the whole game of "sports nutrition"; most my physical activity has been weightlifting in the past (except swimming in my high school days), where pre-workout wasn't really necessary, and recovery was pretty simple with carbs followed by protein.

Problem on the bike is, I'm bonking out halfway through my workout. So far, I haven't done much more than have water in one bottle, Gatorade in the other...but even then I bonk really hard around 30 miles. Not only do I feel somewhat dizzy, I also cramp pretty bad in the quads.

I got an FRS sample pack that I'll have to read more about, but when/where am I using gel? Or should I be looking into water additives?

Suggestions or anecdotes appreciated.

I would check out the hammer nutrition website. even if you dont use their products there is an overload of info there. (I've no relation to hammer products)

[jblande]

I would check out the hammer nutrition website. even if you dont use their products there is an overload of info there. (I've no relation to hammer products)


this is true.

[Secosera]

+1 on Hammer Nutrition

I don't care for their Gu's, but the enduralyte tabs I find are a must for anything over 80 miles. I take two an hour before the ride and one every 45 minutes to an hour during the ride. No cramps at all.
The clif shot bloks also have a lot of electrolytes, and they taste very good.


Sean

[AngryScientist]

+2 on hammer stuff, they seem to be a great company with excellent customer service and plenty of research and information available.

their "montana huckelberry" flavored gel is like candy, i love it.

that said, you really dont need any of the fancy, techy products to do perfectly successful long rides, eating normal foods on the bike is more than acceptable. i follow both philosophies, depending on the type of ride i'm doing. nothing wrong with a banana or two in the jersey pockets, can of coke mid ride and some m&m's on the return leg.

anything under about 30 miles though, water is enough for me.

[Walter]

+ 1 on Hammer: greatsite to learn from and good products.

Gatorade has a lot of simple sugars. The drinks are a matter of personal taste. I like the GU2O drink powder as it tastes good, is light, does not upset my stomach, and has very little sugar added.

[JMerring]

drinks-wise, hammer heed, mild melon flavor, is, hands down, the best sports drink on the market. food-wise, i use gu sometimes, kids' clif bars at others, but generally i take on enough fuel pre-ride that up to around 75 miles i don't need anything other than heed.

[znfdl]

Rice:

Nutrition depends alot on the distance of the ride.

Endurolytes + Anti Fatigue Caps for electrolyte replacement

For rides more than an hour and a half you will need to supplelemnt your body's glycogen stores.

This is where things get complicated. You can eat regular food, gels etc or use sports drinks or a combination of both. There a number of drinks with simple sugars and some drinks that use complex carbohydrates, such as maltodextrin.

Over the years for rides up to three hours I have lived on Hammer's Sustained Energy. For rides longer than three hours, I have started to Use a combination of Hammer's Sustained Energy, Heed and Hammer Bars. The combination of the three keeps me energized for my 150 mile training rides.

This is the combination that works well for me, but not might necessarilly work for you. Part of the nutrition thing is you have to experiment for what works for you. Alot of this depends upon how much riding you are doing, for example if I know that I am on a two week tour, my nutrition pattern is quite different than if I were to ride every three days. Consecutive days of riding means that you have to take better care of your body.

The Hammer site has a tremedous amount of information and is a great place to start.

[tele]

+2 hammer products do it for me. hammer heed lemon lime is my drink of choice. i have used the hammer perpetuem free samples on long rides and it seemed to work out.

for different sports, like freeheel skiing, i use gus or gels as i find they are much easier to carry and i enjoy the time it takes to stop and eat.

[jblande]

znfdl:

how neutral is the flavor of sustained energy? i mean, does it basically taste like nothing at all, or could you liken it to another flavor in any way? thanks.

[Bob Loblaw]

I like Hammer and Gu, but you don't need to spend that much money. It can ad up to more than $2 per hour on the bike.

Generally, you want to consume 200-250 easy-to-digest calories for each hour of saddle time. I usually can get by with a banana on a 30-40 mile ride, but anything longer and I bring more solid foods. Whole wheat fig newtons work great for me, and three per hour do the job nicely. I've experimented with honey and brown rice syrup in gel flasks. Bananas are a great old-school option, full of carbs and potassium. Mini-bagels with butter and jelly, rolled-up PB&J, rice cakes with honey, a hunk of baguette, M&M's, granola bars, cookies and dried fruit have all served me well at one time or another. I have a pretty sturdy stomach, but it all works.

Energy drinks work too, but they always leak all over my bike and I hate cleaning up the sticky mess.

Eat something you can digest every hour, that's the bottom line.

BL

[znfdl]

JB:

Sustained energy's taste is quite neutral. I usually add a scoop of heed to give it either a subtle orange or melon flavor.

My watter bottles usually have approximately 250 calories per water bottle, which for me is fine up to a three hour ride. For longer rides (150+ miles), I have been ingesting 500 calories per hour. The calories are consumed over the hour and not all at once.

For long rides my ritual is the following:

Consume one bottle of sustained energy and heed per hour

On the hour ingest the electrolyte supplements

Starting one half hour in the ride, I start eating my Hammer Bars. I consume one every hour to hour and a half. Sometimes I bring along salted peanuts etc.

One error that I have seen riders do is that they consume too many calories at one time, which can cause gastric distress.....

[gone]

Znfndl said it pretty well but I'll add a few thoughts since I'm a long time hammer user. I've tried just about all the energy/electrolyte products & drinks and hammer is the only stuff I can stay with. Most of the others either don't work for me or are way too sweet. With cytomax/gatorade/etc., after a couple of days on several bottles per day I get to the "if I take one more drink of that stuff I'm gonna puke" stage. Never happens with hammer. They're not sweet and what flavor they do have is very subtle, not overpowering.

Also, there's the small matter of: they work (at least for me). I recently did a 4 day ride of 100+ miles per day with 7k of climbing each day and temperatures of 105+ degrees. I won't say I was fresh as a daisy when I finished each day but I did feel OK, did the rides at a pretty decent pace and didn't cramp.

My normal "recipe" goes like this:

Rides less than 40 miles: water.

Rides more than 40 miles and moderate temperatures (below 90)
2 scoops perpetuem or sustained energy, 1 scoop heed in each bottle. 2 enduralytes every 20 miles.

Rides more than 40 miles and high temperatures (above 90)
2 scoops heed, 1 scoop perpetuem or sustained energy per bottle. 2 enduralytes every 10 miles. Hammer gel as needed to make up for the calorie loss of only 1 scoop of perpetuem or sustained energy.

As I said, I stay with the hammer stuff because it works, at least for me. Also, their customer service is top notch and they support a lot of endurance cycling events and athletes.

[jblande]

thanks for the info znfdl. i am a big fan of perpetuum and heed, but haven't given sustained energy a try. i will next time.

i would echo the previous remarks about moderate calorie intake. when i first started riding larger distances, i took in too many calories. a lot of my friends who stuff their pockets full of 'real' food also have no idea how many calories they are eating and end up with stomach problems or burn out. i really like that i know exactly how many and what sorts of calories i am putting in my body on a ride. and during the summer, when the heat is on, the distances are extreme, the the climbs can be punishing, it is very important to get things right.

my only problem with the gels and bars is the amount of waste they produce. i prefer to buy in bulk and then create my own portions. i would encourage others to do that as well. otherwise, on a given Sunday I can burn through a lot of plastic and $'s.

[jischr]

I am a big fan of Clif Shot Bloks and also use Clif Bars and Gu gel and generally take one every hour if the ride is 2 hours or more in length; just nibbling starting 40 minutes into the ride. I met a guy who used an old flip to water bottle to carry his nuts/raisins/MM mix and would take a hit whenever he wanted. I know the stuff above survives better in 100 degree heat than the MM’s do.

I use water for rides up to 2 hours and roughly 50% Gatorade/water if it’s longer. I have a Camelbak so I put in two trays of ice, add the Gatorade and top it off with water. Nothing like a cold drink two hours into a hot ride and it doesn’t drip on your frame or FD. It’s also easier to carry a banana or apple in for those longer solo rides.

I started using Hammer Eduralytes in the last month and have been pleased with what I perceive as their effect, reduced cramping. Another item I use on 75+ mile rides is 5-Hour Energy drink. I feel more energetic after taking one. It may be mental rather than physical but it’s a definite pick-me-up for me.

[gdw]

"Part of the nutrition thing is you have to experiment for what works for you."

+1
There is a lot of good info in these posts but you'll need to play around to discover what works for you. Modern nutritional products are great but water plus an old school banana and Snickers bar might work pretty well for 50+ miles.

[EDS]

thanks for the info znfdl. i am a big fan of perpetuum and heed, but haven't given sustained energy a try. i will next time.

i would echo the previous remarks about moderate calorie intake. when i first started riding larger distances, i took in too many calories. a lot of my friends who stuff their pockets full of 'real' food also have no idea how many calories they are eating and end up with stomach problems or burn out. i really like that i know exactly how many and what sorts of calories i am putting in my body on a ride. and during the summer, when the heat is on, the distances are extreme, the the climbs can be punishing, it is very important to get things right.

my only problem with the gels and bars is the amount of waste they produce. i prefer to buy in bulk and then create my own portions. i would encourage others to do that as well. otherwise, on a given Sunday I can burn through a lot of plastic and $'s.

You can purchase the large 26 serving containers of hammer gel and use fill a reusable gel flask for your rides.

[Tom]

HEED, Endurolytes and some solid food now and then.

I don't know what they put in Gatorade but that stuff makes my kidneys swell to twice their size and feel like somebody's beating on them with a rubber mallet. Never again.

[mack]

I've been hammering since introduced to their product(s) at Hell week in the mid-nineties, it seemed most of the ultra-distance folk rode with sustained erg in a baggie which they would use to lace their water bottles with at each stop, a practice I quickly latched onto for day-long saddle time ......my mainstays are sustained erg, or perpetuem and hammer gel and these have become standard on all long rides.
Realizing we're all different, I don't seem to handle heed as well and I only seem to use it on short workouts.
As stated earlier, their knowledge, information and support is outstanding.
Now if we could only get them to make a good double-espresso on the spot!
Cheers -mack

[th_boone]

Been using Clif food products forever. Did Accelerade/Endurox/Accel Gel for a while. Still like that stuff. However, just started using 1st Endurance Stuff (EPS drink, Optygen HP pills). Big difference even after one week. The bonus is the EPS stuff (orange) tastes light and is easy to clean.

[Uncle Jam's Army]

"anything under about 30 miles though, water is enough for me."

This. When I started experimenting with drink mixes, I would take Heed and Hammer Gel for a 30 mile ride. That was simply calorie overload and I found that water did not hold me back performance-wise for such a short ride.

30-60 miles and I'll use a combination of Heed, Hammer Gel, and Endurolytes. Over 60 miles I'll use Perpetuem and Endurolytes. The Hammer stuff is great.

[john903]

Yes Hammer nutrition produts work. I think one reason they work so well for so many different people is ther lack of simple sugars and no "ose" fructose, sucrose, high fructose corn syrup yuk. Like many others,
Hammer products
1-2 hour ride water
2-4 hour ride water, heed, Montana Huckleberry gel
4 on up water, heed, perpetum, some solid food like a bagel or fig newtons

Oh "Mack" I love the Espresso bar, which brings up a small point of caffine on long rides if it is not to hot out I will stop for a double shot of espresso straight up no sugar or milk. Makes a nice pick me up and rest break.

Best advice everyone is giving is try products which work best for you.

[sfghbiker]

I am a big fan of the two bottle system for longer rides. One bottle with concentrated hammer sustained energy at 250 calories per hour and I usually shoot for a two-three hour bottle. Second bottle is water+electrolyte. Sip every 15 or so on the sustained energy, hydrate with the electrolyte repletion. Maybe this is weirdly complicated but it works for me. I bring a bag of sustained energy and electrolyte tabs in my jersey and repeat as needed.

[dekindy]

For that distance some Hammer Gel in your water bottle should be sufficient.

For longer rides I like the Perpetuem product. It has a good electrolyte profile by itself. Endurolyte tabs or powder is a good electolyte product.

You might try Camelbak's Elixir product in your water bottle if you really think that electrolytes are what you need.

My money is that all you need is some Hammer Gel. You will also feel less fatiqued after the ride. You can use the flask it dissolves easily in water. Once you build yourself up plain water will be adequate for the distance you referenced.

Use my Hammer Nutrition client #102873 as a reference. You get a discount on your initial purchase and I get a small commission. They may ask for additional information but it is not necessary for me to receive a commission, I just won't find out about it until my next order, which may be awhile since I stocked up with my last order. dekindy@comcast.net is my email and Dwight Kellams is the name. It has been so long since I referred someone I have forgotten the requirements.

[Likes2ridefar]

hammer products were the first I used with any success. I like Heed, but that's about it from them. I find perpetuem to taste disgusting especially when warm or in high concentrations. Never tried sustained energy.

I've been using first endurance (efs) stuff pretty much exclusively this year and think it's great stuff across the entire product line. I use the drink mix and vanilla shots when racing and the ultragen for right after workouts/racing.

the drink mix has more flavor than the hammer heed, which i prefer, and it also has more stuff in it so you don't need to mess with enduro pills if you are concerned about that sort of thing.

[charliedid]

http://www.nuun.com/

[kramnnim]

I have been mixing my own beverage using ~1 cup of maltodextrin (300 calories) and 2/5ths of a scoop of Gatorade powder per 22 ounce bottle. Works out to be quite cheap...the maltodextrin is about $1/pound.

Got the recipe from a friend- http://exposedbits.blogspot.com/2009/08/diy-energy-gel-and-energy-drink.html , he also makes his own gel...

[sand fungus]

I use Nuun for an electrolite drink in one bottle and water in the other bottle. I really like the Nuun as it is easy to carry around and not too artificially sweet tasting. That helps to keep me hydrated.
For food I usually take a Kashi GOLEAN Chewy Bars or a bar that I make myself by grinding up dried fruit and nuts in a fruit processor. I also take along GU gels or GU Chomps depending on how long I will be riding and if I want variation in what I eat.

[toaster]

I have been mixing my own beverage using ~1 cup of maltodextrin (300 calories) and 2/5ths of a scoop of Gatorade powder per 22 ounce bottle. Works out to be quite cheap...the maltodextrin is about $1/pound.

Got the recipe from a friend- http://exposedbits.blogspot.com/2009/08/diy-energy-gel-and-energy-drink.html , he also makes his own gel...

That's a lot of calories. Here's my mixture:

4 oz fruit juice or drink
18 oz purified water
pinch of salt
pinch of Morton lite salt (Potassium)
1 tablespoon maltodextrin

Makes 22 oz.

[flydhest]

One thought that I might throw into the mix. Getting a wide array of feedback is helpful, as different people are . . . different. It might be helpful if people are even more explicit about what sort of riding they are doing. znfdl and a couple others noted how distance/time of the ride changes the strategy. I would add that intensity changes things a lot for me. If I'm doing a 3 to 4 hour ride, I'll have to eat regardless. What I'm eating and drinking, however, depend critically on if that is lollygagging for the extended shop ride or hammering with my teammates, trying to stay on. The latter requires more food for me and also I am more likely to rely on the types of energy food people are talking about.

If I'm just out rolling, 20 on the flats, 16-18 through rollers, it doesn't much matter what I eat, as I'm not working hard enough for it to matter, so a sandwich or a twinkie is as good as an energy bar for my stomach.

[bozman]

Here is another one to consider. They started sponsoring my cycling club this summer:

http://motortabs.com/Home/tabid/88/Default.aspx

I usually ride with one bottle with water and one with a Motor Tab and refill both as necessary. The nice thing about them is the are packaged individually and it is easy to stuff three or four in a jersey pocket along with the gels, foods, etc. When the Motor Tab dissolves it does so completely. The resulting drink is not fizzy like soda even though the tablets "effervesce" as they dissolve.

I take a gel - gu, hammer, honey stinger - every 30-40 minutes for rides under 3 hours. For rides longer than 3 hours I include a food source - clif bar, honey stinger bar, hammer bar, a turkey sandwich - at around 90 minutes or so in addition to the gels.

I do like the Hammer products previously mentioned, too. Great customer service.

[207 cm]

I'm amazed no one has mentioned Heed/Hammer yet, good stuff.

[evo111@comcast.net]

Reviving this thread - any new updates and opinions on energy drinks, gels etc. thanks.

[avalonracing]

After a quick peruse of thread I would also point out the need to eat enough in the hours before the ride and to eat soon after the ride (I try to get some sugars and protein within 20 minutes of a ride).

[CunegoFan]

A long time ago I bought a huge tub of Hammer Sustained Energy. It was terrible. It is very starchy, like water used to cook pasta. Some people describe it as tasting like wallpaper paste. This tub sat on one of my shelves for a long time, and I recently began using it along with my supplies of Cytomax, which I have grown to hate the taste of. I put one scoop of Sustained Energy and half a scoop of Cytomax into a 750 ml bottle. The result is a mild tasting drink. It is not sicky sweet like Cytomax, and I cannot detect that disgusting chemical-like aftertaste that Cytomax has. Anyway, it has turned out to be a good way to get rid of both my Sustained Energy and Cytomax supplies.

Aside from that, I have been digging Twin Labs Ultra Fuel for a while. It is designed to be mixed at 400 cals per bottle. If it is mixed to a more standard 100 cal strength then the taste is very mild. It has about every vitamin and mineral known to man in it except it has very little sodium. I toss in part of a Salt Stick capsule to add electrolytes.

[scoobydrew]

After a quick peruse of thread I would also point out the need to eat enough in the hours before the ride and to eat soon after the ride (I try to get some sugars and protein within 20 minutes of a ride).

Yes!

Sure all these products are great for during the ride, but what you eat before the ride also matters. For instance, what you eat the night before will affect your performance the next day. I usually slightly load up on some carbs the night before. On the day of the ride (usually morning), I eat a nice breakfast consisting of oatmeal, a granola bar, and a PB&J sometimes. Post-ride or even post-workout (weight lifting, etc) I usually finish up with a hearty meal or when I don't have time, a protein shake.

That said, I am now a true believer of Hammer products. Yesterday I went on a 50 mile ride with a sustained ~19 mile low grade climb (some descents and flats in there). I had my usual breakfast and went on my way. When I was 1/4 of my way into the ride, I took a big sip from my water bottle, which had some Perpetuem mixed with water. Every hour or so, I would pop an Endurolyte into my mouth. I finished the ride very strong, did not cramp at all and didn't really bonk. I am usually VERY prone to cramps on my quads, but it seems like Hammer products really helped.

[rice rocket]

I got hooked on Endurolytes as well, except I'm taking more like 3-4 per hour. They say you can take up to 6 per hour! I know other mfgs like Nuun and Saltstick up the concentration so you don't have to pop pills as often.

[verticaldoug]

I got hooked on Endurolytes as well, except I'm taking more like 3-4 per hour. They say you can take up to 6 per hour! I know other mfgs like Nuun and Saltstick up the concentration so you don't have to pop pills as often.

People are giving you good advice about on bike nutrition but honestly, you should not be bonking at 30 miles. I think you should look for other causes.

I think the problem may be your diet. If I bonk early on a run or ride, it is almost always from eating poorly during the day or prior day. If you start out starved, you don't last long.

You may want to keep a food log which really helps in reducing the garbage we eat, and tends to improve the quality.

For your cramping, you should start by adding bananas to your daily diet. Even though you can take up to 6 endurolytes per hour, I recommend against it. I've experience sweating white from taking too many NUUN or Endurolytes.

Finally, if you are cramping in the quads, you may be stomping on the pedals too much and not spinning. If you are cramping in the calves, maybe your shoe soles flex.

[dekindy]

Your pace is probably too fast for your conditioning. I doubt if any products will cure that.

On a 30-mile ride, theoretically a couple of water bottles is all that you should need. OTOH, there is nothing wrong with eating something or using a supplement if conditions are hot and you are riding extremely hard.

I know very fit cyclists that use Hammer Gel on 30-mile training rides despite the theory. I was riding at my maximum ability to keep up on training rides so Hammer Gel in my water bottle or some poured into a Hammer flask helped and I was also not nearly as drained after the ride. However I cannot imagine needing an electrolyte supplement for a 30-mile ride. I may be wrong on this so check the Hammer Nutrition website as others have suggested.

If your goal includes weight loss, I would lower the duration and/or intensity and use nothing but water.

OOPS, 30-miles is halfway. On a 60-mile workout Hammer Gel or their other short term workout energy supplements are needed. I still doubt if electrolyte supplement is necessary but the best advice is to experiment. I would use energy supplements and get better conditioned and then use electrolyte products if there is still a problem.