Learn to ride?

[David Kirk]

I’ve been thinking….dangerous I know but I’ve been thinking nonetheless.

This is not pointed at anyone in particular on this forum or even this forum as a whole. It’s more intended for all of us as cyclists. Please don’t take offence. None was intended.

It seems that we as cyclists spend a lot of time talking, either online or over the bike shop sales counter, about equipment and how it will make us better, faster, stronger or more comfortable…etc. The bike industry as a whole relies on this for its very survival. It makes sense. The manufacturers and their sales arms want the customer to think that that new carbon axle set will make all the difference. That keeps the money flowing. And it makes sense because it's fun and easy to do. Compare the weight, stiffness, cost...it's all very clean and clearcut.

What I’d like to talk about is not the equipment but the way we use the equipment. We’ve all gone on group rides with the guy that has the newest, lightest, trickest bike that money can buy, but his skills are so poor or undeveloped that all the that money and titanium bottle bolts are all for naught. I often feel a combination of frustration and embarrassment for him. It seems to me that this guy as well as almost all of us could use some guidance on how to sit on the bike, how to pedal it, how to corner on it….etc. I feel it’s true that we spend a reasonable amount of time talking about fitness but little time considering how well we can use that fitness to get power to the ground or to get around the corner.

When I first started road riding I had a few racer guys that worked in the shop where I worked that pushed me hard to learn to pedal. I thought that they were crazy. Everyone knows how to pedal a bike…….how hard is this? I wanted cool bike stuff to make me faster. Rick (I miss Rick) rode me hard to learn how to ride and to stop focusing on the gear. We went on long rides where we did nothing but take turns watching each other pedal. We watched how each other sat on the bike. We commented on what looked right and efficient and what looked posed. We talked and thought about the bio-mechanics that made it all work. We went to races together and I rode a hand-me-down Raleigh that fit reasonably well but was very heavy and very low tech. At first I felt like I would get my *** handed to me by the guys with the big legs and light bikes. After my first few wins on that old bike I bought into Rick’s dogma. I can’t thank Rick enough as he was the guy that gave me the real sport of cycling and a life long passion for it. It’s not based on the stuff but the movement and the feel…..the power and the grace.

During the winter I’m deeply involved with snowboarding and the teaching of snowboarding. I’ve been doing this for over 25 years. My wife is a top flight ski instructor. We both continually train to be better skiers and riders. Very little time is spent talking about equipment. Most all of it is spent talking about the proper use of the equipment. The difference between how skiing and cycling are learned and taught is striking to me. I wonder if there isn’t a way to move this same culture over to (or as I see it back to) cycling.

I wonder if there is room on this wonderful forum that Serotta so graciously allows me to participate in for a spot to discuss proper technique. Be it cornering, pedaling, sprinting….etc. It seems to me that most of us could benefit from the greater experience of some of our fellow forumites. This would allow us to really explore the limits of the wonderful gear we already own and maybe save us a few buck by keeping us from buying the next thing that promises us a life altering experience.

For me the real life altering experience came when I really started to learn to ride.

What do you all think?

Thanks for your time.

Dave

[Birddog]

I agree Dave, most of us could use some help in the skills dept. I am a Ski Instructor, and I agree, most of thoe folks in class are there to learn how to use the equipment. Bicyclists are more like the many snowboarders (and many skiers too) who take that first beginner lesson, and then never come back. They think they know enough, and they can pick up the rest on their own. You and I, and perhaps others, know, that although that's possible, it will be a long learning curve. As a snowsports instructor, we always hear the horror story about how a student had a first time lesson from their friends or relatives (usually took them to the top of the Mtn) and they beat themselves up. I am always amazed at the number of people that take a ski lesson, and then spend many days on the beginner's hill, perfectly content. We've probably all seen that with bicyclists too, although mostly we tend to NOT help the newbs with technique. I think it is safe to say that most times when we ride with a newb of questionable skills, our instincts are to just ride off and let them learn on their own rather than give them any advice/help. If we do offer any advice it seems like it is the usual "git off those Friggen aerobars" or "hold your line". I sure wish someone had come forward and given me some pointers when I started, the process of discovery is too slow.

Birddog

[ZippRider]

Dave, you make a very good point. There is so much marketing and hype in cycling equipment. We would benefit more from technique then equipment...


Zipp

[scrooge]

I would say that more of this sort of information would be tremendously helpful. You people have given me lots of wonderful information on how to design my new bike--now I could use pointers on how to ride it. The more I read here, the more I'm stunned at how many things I've never thought about in my riding (for example, what it means to "pedal squares"). So yes, I'm all for more of this sort of talk (for as much as my opinion matters!).

[Matt Barkley]

Many of us have (had) baseball coaches, basketball coaches, and swim coaches - Cross-Country and track coaches. We have been instructed and taught to run properly and swing a bat and how to throw. But here in the US, you will be hard pressed to find someone to teach you how to pedal yer' bike.

Many come to this "sport" later in life. After middle- and high-school. Sure we learned to ride as kids - but not at a competetive level with instruction.

D. Kirk - Great post. I am with you on this one. I would argue (and I guess it is obvious) that the internet ain't gonna teach us how to ride - but it may give us a few tidbits to help us ride better. :beer: - Matt

[Skrawny]

Such is the nature of sport:
Witness all of the newfangled drivers out there for golfers who need to learn to swing.

I, for one, love to read all I can here about skills and technique. I have been riding my bike a ton lately, but all on my own. I am in good shape, but I still lack a lot of skill. I rode with a handful of guys on Sat all of whom had mad skills compared to me. I kept up with them, but that was due more to raw tenacity than any talent.

Unfortunately, none of them gave me any tips. Maybe from now on I'll let the guys I respect know that I am open to pointers. Plus I have to get enough skills so as not to embarass myself in the Tour de Eugene...
-s

[Dr. Doofus]

love the spirit of the original post

it would seem that the most productive advice is delivered in the flesh...when riders can see each other, like Dave said...and as such some might be reticent to give advice, especially when some non-ferrous zealot(s) are all too willing to lambast and mock the views of others from time to time, when not conducting other business....

however, maybe what we need is just a free-for all


doof is no great shakes as a rider, but here is one for what it may be worth

study progressive relaxation -- learning how to isolate muscle groups and relax them one by one. then, learn how to do that on the bike. if your position is jacked, you'll know it quickly because you won't be able to relax a muscle group that is compromised by bearing too much load or compensating.

somebody might say this is wack, but doof has always thought that if you're positioned right for your strength and flexibility, there shouldn't be any feeling of speed. of effort, sure, but not of speed. you should be as relaxed at 30 as you are at 10, everything from the waist up buttery, no tension anywhere.

doof was reminded of this when setting up the Raspberry Pimp. When it was finally dialed in, doof didnt notice anything while riding it. rough road, smooth road, fast, slow, it was all the same. It wasn't because it was whiz-bang technology. it was because doof's body's "sweet spot" was dialed into the bike's "sweet spot."

what that means, I and the doof have no idea. but when the bars or the saddle moved a millimeter, the bike didn't ride as smoothly, didn't handle as well, and it felt like effort -- all because something wasn't relaxed, and tension in the body goes a long way towards providing what we think of as "road feel." get the position right, you're relaxed, what you perceive as the feel of the bike changes dramatically.

99% of the cats on this forum will call the doof out for that and wax on and on about the differences between materials and "how they ride." that's ***. your body is the biggest transmitter of vibrations involved in the equation.

vague unscientific pontificating: get a frame that puts the depressed part of the saddle in line with the seat tube, and then move crap around until a) you don't notice anything other than your effort and b) you don't notice the bike anymore

now for the eyewitness validity: hey Too Tall, PM the doof about anything good or crappy you saw vis a vis what the doof does on a bike

[Spicoli]

Just tonight I had mentioned to my brother that I was thinking of doing a little race clinic with the people I do a bunch of my riding with. Other than races I rarely get to train with the guys on my team so most of my group riding is with these guys. I recently realized that many of the people/friends I ride with do not know many of the basics of racing a bike. They can do fifty races a year but only a few really get involved while others become pack fodder by just doing a ride with a group that just happens to be racing. While they are very knowledgable about cycling, training, and some are dam fast, they could have so much more fun if they became a little more involved with the front end of a peleton. I think that many have been cycling for so long they are afraid (embaressed) to ask a very basic questions because of fear that others think they should or do know the answer. So they keep doing the same old things season after season. A few friends of mine were riding really well this winter and wanted to do some of the early season races and I dont even know how it came up but one asked well if this happens what do I do? So I answered and next thing you know a few more questions pop up and after the race even more thoughts and ideas. The next week comes and believe it or not these guys are starting to mix it up and get involved in the race and more questions, ideas, thoughts afterwards. I think they knew the answers to there own questions but they were not positive, so they just did not act. Racing is even more enjoyable when it is a team effort. Even if you are not one of the protected riders, working to get a team result is what racing is about. Every member of my team at one point or another has screwed themselves into the ground for each other at different events and that plus results however small give the feeling I think we are all looking for as cyclist at any level. By sharing info. be it, bike fit, technique, tactics, or anything that brings out a positive result is good for us and the sport as a whole. I do think this paralells the development of skills Dave is talking about. Many of us myself included are on auto pilot and for some reason we stop looking for ways other than tech. to improve are cycling. I know for a fact that these guy's have gotten much faster without changing one part on any of there bikes and they must be having more fun to dragging there buutts out at 6:00 AM to race a bike in the beginning of March.

[Ti Designs]

I've spent the last 10 years working with new riders, teaching pedal stroke, teaching riding skills. I've spent countless early mornings on the bike coaching, almost as many nights working with riders on trainers. I've dedicated much of my life to coaching and teaching beginners riding skills. That probably makes me the biggest idiot on this forum.

There are plenty of coaches making some good money in cycling. They work with people who can afford their fee. Very few take the time to teach the basics of pedal stroke - at $50/hour who can afford it? They are paid to set up training schedules and programs which make the assumption that you have the skills to begin with. To be fair, many of these coaches have dedicated their lives to cycling and their time is worth the asking price. I just don't think the average kid learning to ride can afford the price of admission. If little league coaches started charging those kinds of prices the popularity of baseball would take a nose dive.

Then there is the the marketing side. Who's your coach? People flock to the guys with the big names in racing. George may be as smart as a rock, but if he started coaching he would have a full scedule from day 1. Does being a great racer make you a great coach? I've had a few experiances with riders I've worked with who were also coached by big name riders. In one case the other coach never took the time to figure out how to explain things - they always came so easy to him. "just do it" is a great ad for Nike, it's not great for teaching a rider how to corner. In another case the coach was very good at his job, but he didn't have the dedication. Not having the big name often forces people to work twice as hard - there's value to that. All that said, people flock to the big names, the rest of us get no credit at all.

And then there's the uphill battle of teaching people what they don't know, and don't know that they don't know. It's like riding a bike - isn't it? People think I'm nuts when I say I'm going to teach them how to pedal in circles. Then, I get them on the trainer and have them try to pedal with one leg clipped in and you can clearly hear the difference between one leg and both legs. OK, maybe there's something to that... Then comes the next step, learning how to ride and how to handle the bike. Drafting, making contact with the person next to you, cornering, sprinting, climbing... There's so much to learn, and they just don't see it. In most cases I start teaching someone the basics of pedal stroke, and then I never see them again. Why do I waste my time? People just don't get it, they think cycling is so simple, why not leave it at that?

Tomorow I'm going to get on my bike at 6:00AM to teach a team how to do turn arounds in a team time trial. My guess is that half the team will show up for the practice and in the real team time trial someone who wasn't there is going to cause a pile-up. Either they don't belive that my coaching is worth anything (starting to agree there) or I haven't charged them in advance for my time...

Bottom line, helping new riders for the good of the sport may be the right thing to do, but it sucks to be the guy doing it.

[coylifut]

I think the information is redily available in every community I've lived in. Plenty of clubs out there bringing in newbies and making cyclists out of em. I think it's more of a problem of people seeking out the information.

My club has 1 UCI world champion, a couple of national champions and multiple state champions. All people who just showed up one day because we take everyone. The village raised em. Over the last several years, there's only been one club member asked to leave because he didn't play well with others.

[cs124]

Great post Dave.

This is something I've been thinking about for a while too. In my case we've got a few juniors who have joined up with our LBS training group. Talented kids, they just need some guidance in the subtle aspects of bike racing. I'm thinking "cadence & pedal stroke", "pacelines & echelons", "when to chase and when to let 'em fry" and "how not to throw your bike back into the guy behind you when you get out of the saddle".

I love reading the stories that Ti Designs tells about his clients/proteges. He should clone himself a few times so we can all benefit from his experience and patience.

[cs124]

(for example, what it means to "pedal squares").

Pedalling squares...you know that feeling when your pedal stroke does not feel smooth and uniform but jerky and fractured? When that happens to me, for whatever reason, the mental image I get is of square chainrings. Funny how the mind works...

[Climb01742]

dave,

your post is filled with truth. and i think you're dead-on in saying that learning better technique would help us so much more than getting the latest trick equipment. but here's the rub, as i see it: the kind of teaching you're talking about is best done in person. this forum is filled with a certain kind of information because it's the kind of info that can be shared in this medium. the message fits the medium. the kind of info you're talking about, sadly, doesn't fit the medium very well.

case in point: i've been working on smoothing out my pedal stroke. forum members have shared lots of great tips. i've tried a much of them. the challenge i'm facing is finding a mental image that works for my body. coming up with the right mental signals to send to my legs and feet. different "messages" work for different people. example: somehow the scraping dog-poop off my foot image doesn't send the right messages to my feet. i'm trying to find the right message to send. total trial and error. i bet you, or ti designs, or spicoli, or a dozen forum members could help me a ton in just one ride if we could do it together. how do we get together? logging onto this forum is a million times easier. for me, there's the rub.

ti designs,

ed, don't be so down, dude. its damn hard matching good teachers to willing, appreciative pupils. i watched you last night at belmont with that dude buying the bike. and i've caught glimpses of you with the harvard kids. all teachers, no matter what they teach or how good they are, truly connect with a sadly small percentage of their students. someone has to be committed to learning. sharing knowledge is, overwhelmingly, a frustrating, difficult vocation. but when you do connect, isn't it all worth it? matching the passion of a teacher to the passion of a student is a crap shoot. but you knew that going in, right?

doc doof,

for what it's worth, i think you're really on to something. breathing and relaxing are huge helps to me. i try to make every part of my body quiet except my legs. only have my legs expend energy, not my brain, not my arms, not shoulders, not neck, nothing but legs. deep breathes are a cool tool. you may be crazy but its a good crazy.

[Tom]

A week ago I mightn't have agreed so much, but when I did the fit session the first thing we did was correct my posture. 3 things: roll the hips forward, stick my chest out and raise my head and shoulders. I was the classic humpback head hanger. I've been keeping that in mind on the rides and boy, does it make a difference. The comment of no feeling of speed but of effort? Last night I was sure I was crawling. I wasn't. Oh, no I wasn't. And, I was looking all around like a tourist... checking out the ponds, laughing at the geese. I could do that because my head was pointing forward, not down! The other thing is that I can't high gear low rpm in that position, I am back to the old 100rpms where I feel much better. The thing is as you say, don't pose. Stay loose and relaxed in the upper body... when I hit it right my upper body is still as a stone and there's no weight on my hands at all. Well, some, but you know what I mean.

There's a local club that apparently has a Tuesday night thing where novices like me can show up and be taught skills. I plan on hitting that a bunch of times this year. There's no sense in haveing a great bike and no clue what to do with it.

[William]

When I moved into cycling from Crew, I already had a very strong fitness base (yeah, it transferred over) to work from. I had done a lot of bike riding and BMX racing when I was younger so I knew how to mix it up and rub elbows close in (and already had that frantic need to be near the front), but I was clueless about pace lines and echelons and many other aspects of road racing and etiquette. The two main sources of learning for me were my team and Eddie B.'s book on racing. The book outlines much good information on climbing, descending, crits, RR, time trials and proper technique. What I picked up there was reinforced when riding with my team mates. At that time we had a couple of State and National champs riding with us. Also one rider who had done some racing in Europe as well so there was good, experienced advice flowing through our group. There was also little tolerance for unsafe group riding practices so if you did something wrong you were corrected right away (in a firm but tactful way). I have to credit a lot of my racing success and riding skills to those guys.

Dave, ditto on the first ride. Mine was old Fuji Roubaix with 105 DT shifters when folks first started riding STI. I learned early on when I started kicking "A" that it was the motor & the mind that counts, not the latest greatest doo-dads.

And, I would also highly recommend that folks pick up a copy of Eddie B's book. It may seem dated but there is still a lot of solid information in it.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0941950077/103-0604848-0878224?v=glance

William

[dbrk]

doof was reminded of this when setting up the Raspberry Pimp. When it was finally dialed in, doof didnt notice anything while riding it. rough road, smooth road, fast, slow, it was all the same. It wasn't because it was whiz-bang technology. it was because doof's body's "sweet spot" was dialed into the bike's "sweet spot."


This is an interesting observation about bike handling because it has as much to do with the bike as it does the rider. A superb bike handler---the best I have ever seen is Grant Petersen by a long shot---can ride almost any bike and be in seemingly effortless control no matter the situation. A really skilled rider can make almost any bike rideable. But to comment more directly on the Dr.'s notion...

I would agree and add... There is a window of sweet spot handling that has to do with weight and points of contact and the rest of the rider's physcal response informed by his or her mental outlook. Being (dis-) stressed never helps but any meditator knows that there is a sweet spot too that creates both deep focused attention and relaxation (which is why anyone who makes only one of these the goal invariably is good at neither). On bicycles the factor of the machine comes into play but that window of fluency and deftness differs depending on design issues and experience with those designs. People like what they are used to and tend to think that that is "best." I ride lots of different _kinds_ of bikes and they have different _kinds_ of sweet spot. To get the most out of the ride you have to adjust to the bike's best options. A great bike is designed for different sorts of riding. Singer understands this after, say, almost 100 years of building bikes in Paris.

Experience tells me that most "race" bikes---and those would be mostly "road bike" designs that come from, say, Serotta---the optimal position is more of a razor's edge. Perhaps this is because we want race bikes to do two things that are almost incommensurate: to turn on a dime and to descend with real stability. These are not an easy combination to achieve in design but they are goals that also test the rider because the one tends to compromise the other. In contrast, bikes designed to handle better at slower speeds offer up their own compromises such as turning less crisply even while they tend to stay more upright when you are, say, 200 miles out on a day. Trail, drop, all in VERY SMALL AMOUNTS make relatively significant differences regarding what sort of window is opened or closed, what sort of sweet spot you are being offered. Changing tires and tire size can particularly effect a bike, as Jan Heine has recently pointed out to some effect too.

I ride alone most of the time but when I have company it is usually with a very dear and brilliant friend who has newbie handling skills. This fellow has two sons who have both been accomplished racers and he generates within himself a certain pressure to ride racer type bikes. These don't suit him particularly well and to get anything like comfort he has had to shorten his stem and raise it on his stock Pegoretti. Not a good solution given his handling skills. The result is that his weight has moved back on a bike that is already too small for him and the front end is much faster yet. The jerk is so very right about this: on a racer bike it is all the more important, say, in contrast to a proper randonneur where we often see short stems that work best that way for the design. The result is that my pal is currently more dangerous than he usually is (bless his heart and he knows it) but here is a good example of being out of the sweet spot (far) but not being able to compensate with real, experienced skill. So what he is in line for is a randonneur designed bike that satisfies his racer-boy aesthetics (well, mostly), one that will let him use an 11cm stem and go threadless (despite the terrible compromises in loss of stack height, etc., this design presents in this case) and a carbon fork (which forces the design of the frame around the fork, which is essentially backwards). Sweet spots move with bike design and rider and a little bit can make a big difference. I call it the Rule of 2%, which is just a way of saying that very small changes can amount to significance. There's no getting around the equipment aspect of riding skills because bike designs interact with bike riders. What you want to do on the bike matters too. I could care less, personally, about "carving" turns or descending as fast as I can though I've never been dropped for either (unlike, say, my climbing!)

One of the goals of a certain style of audax riding is to keep the group together, which may mean riding as slow as the slowest rider (and thereby causing that person to ride faster). This goal is unlike most "club" rides I've been on but no one would really want me in their club. I'm a Marxist (more Groucho than Karl but not by much).

dbrk

[OldDog]

We are attempting to revive our cycling club this spring, it comes and goes with the volunteers to run it. Everyone rides, but not always under the structure of a formal club.

This spring we are offering a community bike handling skills series over 3 weeks this May, one night a week, held at the Penn State campus, Wilkes-Barre. It is geared toward the newbie, though more seasoned riders who have never had any real instruction are encouraged to attend. It is taught by a local gent who is a USCF coach, LAB Effective Cycling instructor and a few local, longtime riders.

Skills such as group riding, pacelining, bumping elbows without freaking out, along with more basic of shifing gears, pedal technique, etc. Three nights is little time to cover the vast topics to cover, but it will get some newbies started and hopefully get them to return to group rides and progress their skill level. The long term plan is to develop a program we can offer year after year.

I'm open for any and all suggestions ya'll can offer and I will pass them on.

[Too Tall]

Great comments Dave. You are right on and right off. The right on part goes without saying and we all appreciate skills both literal and on the road learned through teaching, experience and making mistakes. The right off part is not seeing that even the unwashed get great benefit by participating in the entire process of bicycle culture regardless of how much they "get it" or not. Quite honestly it used to cook my grits to see out of shape newbies sporting hotshot togs and high end bicycles setup for going to the local megafood mart....hey I'm just being honest ok? It wasn't long before I stopped smelling myself and chilled out. These newbies are GREAT people looking for the "best" or something to sport around town and where is the harm? Benefit is huge to makers of the goods and shops that sell them. Bottom line...it's all good baby and if you see a need fill the hole or let it go man!

Folks like OldFogDog are running clinics. However that assumes folks who are of a mind to "train" and learn. You gotta allow that there are a huge amt. of people who just friggin want to do their "thing" however off base or disconnected they are infact from our own love of all things bicycle. I say let them wobble, wear too tight lycra and turn their carbon bars upside down. I'll wave anyway.

[BumpyintheBurgh]

Why not start a new forum 'section' such as Riding Clinic, Bike Handling, Riding Technique, Training, Instruction or whatever...take a vote. Then we can post questions, comments, advice, even pictures showing riding positions, etc specific to improving your riding skills.

I'm sure there are plenty of us non-racers who would be interested in improving their technique and become better, more efficient riders.

[Richard]

Climb -- The "scraping the shoe" image never made it for me. Mental images are certainly personal, but, for me, the image of descending a set of stairs with looong treads and short risers always made it easier to visualize a smooth pedal stroke. Scraping the shoe was like tracing the lower horizontal of the square. The stair image was more about gliding around the circle.

[David Kirk]

I‘m pleased to get so much response.

I agree with some that teaching certain things over the net is like “learning to dance from a series of still pictures” (Thanks to Elvis Costello for that one). Teaching someone to pedal more efficiently online could take a very long time. Other things like race tactics, cornering, sprinting…etc are I think fairly well suited to online discussion.

I think it’s very cool that many of you give clinics with your local clubs. I wish more clubs did this. My first club (CNYCC) was very good. I’ve been a member of a number of different clubs over the years and some were very good and some were more interested in shucking the new guy as a welcome. In some areas there isn’t a real club to learn from. And many of you chose to not participate with your club for your own reasons.

Ti Designs – I feel your pain. I really do. I’ve experienced the same thing in snowsports. My main snowsports job is that of clinician. I’m paid to teach instructors. They get the advice for free and in many cases they get paid to take the clinic. It’s usually the most in need that don’t show up for the clinics. And often when they do they have an attitude. Ignorance is bless I guess. Like someone said (Climb?) if you reach just a few folks then you’ve done very well. But it’s all very personal isn’t it. Good luck and hang in there. The sport needs more folks like you.

Too Tall – I feel I might not have made my point well. I’m not upset with the “unwashed”. I feel for them. They buy all the stuff and they still get dropped by the guy on the RB-1. But if they are happy with their upside down carbon bars so am I. It just seems to me that many get into the sport for a few years and then eBay all their stuff because they aren’t having fun. It’s no fun to get shucked on every ride and for most a big equipment change won’t keep them from getting shucked. I hope I’ve made my point better. I seems like we are on the same page.

I’m hoping that we’ll have some time to go over a few things in person during the G’dB this summer….if anyone is interested.

Thanks again for the cool comments. And to you folks who are coaching out there…..my hat is off to you.

Dave

[Len J]

Dave:

I couldn't agree with you more.

Someone else mentioned the "People not knowing what they don't know" syndrome, so people don't usually ask about these Pedaling & handling issues. Recognizing this, maybe we should have someone (Dave; TI Desighs, someone else?) post The "Bike handling/Bike skills" Issue of the week........then the rest of the forum could respond with their experiences. This certainly would open the dialog.

Sone areas might be:

1.) Smoothing out pedal strokes
2.) Working on Pulling upin the pedal stroke
3.) High speed turning
4.) Bike handling skills in packs
5.) Pacelining skills and etiquette
6.) Rapid stopping techniques
7.) Drills for improving handling skills
8.) Roller techniques

I'm sure forumites more knowledgable than I could come up with more topics.

Anyone willing to volunteer to do this?

Len

[Too Tall]

You make good points and there is a perfect venue for city folks who are berift of guidance and have the chops to know they need it...it's called a "coaching ride" and you pay a professional coach to ride with you. I can provide names of a bunch of really good coaches in my region who do this. I do it for latte's ;)

Yah we def. are on the same page and not to put another crease in an already beginning to putrify equine hayburner BUT my issue is that buying "stuff" twords a presumed act of commitment to something such as a sport, basketweaving, knitting yada yada are therapeutic acts and usually done with no aspirations of greatness or even proficiency OMG! We...flawed hu-mahns like to dabble - we like to fail - we like to see "what if" and what does this feel like? It is a condition exacerbated by affluence and lack of community...not that there's anything wrong with that. Them what's clever find the meaning, culture and richness of these pursuits lifting themselves out ranks of "dabbler" and onwards to accomplishment and lifestyle. However I value the ignoble efforts of the dabbler because they seek equilibrium, tools to self satisfy. Not to mention putting blizzle and shnazizzle in LBSs pahdizzle.

Wooo....what a bunch of puckey I just typed ;)

Coffee time :) Why did I hit return???? I said that out loud didn't I?

[David Kirk]

Maybe it could be said "bling is fun"? I couldn't agree more. I'm as guilty as the next guy. I love stuff.

Dave

[alembical]

This to me is the real reason why I love group rides so much. I have found a group to ride with on Saturdays where everyone is much more experienced and much better riders than me and great instructors as well. There is so much to learn. It is not just about the fitness and strength, especially if one starts considering racing.

Alembical

[sspielman]

A great start would be to watch for Laurent Brochard on race coverage and emulate his style. That guy makes everything look classy. If they awarded bonus points for style, he would be leading the UCI rankings....

[cpg]

Dave Kirk, the myth buster, should not be trusted around small children. Before you know it, he's telling little Jimmy and Suzy there's no Easter bunny, Tooth Fairy or Santa Claus. You're a mean man. You mean I can't buy better results? You mean I've got train to actually improve? That's hard! What's next? You gonna tell me Elvis is really dead? Big Foot isn't real? OJ really did it? Stop. My head is spinning.

Curt

[eisenm]

Dave's original comments remind me of my favorite saying that I have heard while riding, said by (and all credit given to) Gary in Milwaukee, circa 1988:

"Bike ain't nothin' without a rider."

[OldDog]

Folks like OldFogDog are running clinics. However that assumes folks who are of a mind to "train" and learn. You gotta allow that there are a huge amt. of people who just friggin want to do their "thing" however off base or disconnected they are infact from our own love of all things bicycle. I say let them wobble, wear too tight lycra and turn their carbon bars upside down. I'll wave anyway.


You got me pegged. I turned my bars upside down to keep my belly from overlapping my top tube.

[shinomaster]

I think the information is redily available in every community I've lived in. Plenty of clubs out there bringing in newbies and making cyclists out of em. I think it's more of a problem of people seeking out the information.

My club has 1 UCI world champion, a couple of national champions and multiple state champions. All people who just showed up one day because we take everyone. The village raised em. Over the last several years, there's only been one club member asked to leave because he didn't play well with others.
What club are you on Coy?

[Frankwurst]

Nice post Dave. I started riding thirty years ago in Northern Wisconsin (when you bought a pair of shoes and had to nail the cleats to them yourself) and it sure would have been nice to have an experienced rider teach me pedaling techniques vs. having to try and get my hands on every bit of literature I could dig up and read to teach myself. There's a big difference between pedaling a bike and riding a bike. It's a great sport that alot of people will never have the good fortune of understanding. :beer:

[Hard Fit]

Much of the discussion has centered around skills needed for fast group riding. I am probably in the minority view here, but to me the most important skill that needs to be learned is how to ride in traffic. The vast majority of riders (and probably those on this forum) will never race. But, they will almost all ride on the streets with vehicular traffic. I have seen riders who could ride circles around me and out-corner me by several feet, but were scared to death to ride in traffic. The boundaries of cycling increase many-fold for those who learn to ride on the streets safely.

[bcm119]

What club are you on Coy?


My guess is "Team O". Hes one of those green guys!

[Vancouverdave]

Learning to ride--takes many forms. I started @1968, have never been truly racer-fit or fast, but ridden many K miles since then. A few things that have given me skill boosts have been:
Skateborading in the late 1970's, forced me to become more flexible.
Riding paved embankments and empty pools, learning how to weight and unweight, noticed that when I rode the bike I was cornering faster and braking less with drier palms--hey, a bike with real brakes and steering felt so much more secure!
Fixed gear riding--riding skills improve whenever I ride fixed even once a month on a steady basis. My upper body has to be less tense, I watch the road conditions better because the bike gives me no choice. I can both push and spin better, too.
Tandem riding--this is the ultimate in being aware of another cyclist, for obvious reasons. There's nothing like the potential for causing your most favorite other person in the world to be furious at you to make sure you look for every bump and ripple and telegraph every shift and every coast! BTW, every tandem captain would be a better rider if they rode fixed once in awhile--nothing like it for killing the urge to suddenly coast without warning!
Reading what experts in a facet of riding write can be useful. I climb like a slug on Quaaludes at the best of times, but reading Lucien Van Impe's comments on how to climb in a recent Cycle Sport article was interesting; he is/was very conscious of how he pedals for what cycling conditions as far as spinning or pushing.