"on Your Left"

[inGobwetrust]

What do you guys think?

"on your left"

Hey there,

So if you happened to be riding a bike on Hampshire street through Inman Square at 8:50 this morning, I probably passed you. See, I had to move my roommate's car so it didn't get towed, but I was running late for work in the back bay as a result. So I had some speed getting into Inman Square as a BUNCH of bikers were coming in, so I eased myself into the lane that cars would be in and really cranked through the square (I hate getting caught at the light at Prospect) to the point where I was keeping up with the cars. I made it past prospect, passed one more biker, and ended up hitting the next light when a few bikers caught up to me.

One of them said, "Next time you pass someone, announce 'on your left', it's a common courtesy"

My reply: "I thought I gave you about 5 feet of clearance"

Her reply: (paraphrased, i don't recall the exact wording) "i'm not sure about that. but you really should say 'on your left', because it really scared me. I could have fallen over and been hit by a car"

-pause, as i try and think of why this is so odd-

My reply: "Do you get that scared when cars pass you?"

Her reply: "Don't be a **** man, just say on your left, it's a common courtesy."

So, this conversation rang through my head on the way to work... while thinking of a good retort such as, "hey, i'm not the one calling a stranger a ****. some people might consider that to be outside of common courtesy as well"...

I polled some people that ride bikes to my office (there aren't many) to ask their thoughts on the matter. It ranged from
"sometimes, or I'll just cough to announce my presense"
to
"umm... no."

So I need the help of the angry craigslist community to help me out:

Who's in the wrong here? If I pass 8 people in a row, do I need to say "on your left" 8 times? If I'm passing someone outside the bike lane, do I even need to say it? Would a bike bell do the job?

I have been doored before, I have been hit by a car (albeit while running), I have seen other bikers hit by cars, I have seen pedestrians walk out in front of bikers, but I honestly have never seen an accident result because someone forgot to say "on your left."

Anyway, if you know the girl who said this to me, ask her what I should do. I think saying "on your left" to 8 people sounds pretty stupid, so I'd like to know if the bike bell thing would be up to snuff. Oh, and sorry if I ruined her morning - if it makes her feel any better, I'm looking to rectify things.

http://boston.craigslist.org/rnr/68058786.html

[PanTerra]

Get a bell.

Cars make a lot of noise when they are coming up on you so it is not a surprise. Bikes on the other hand are very quiet, so be nice, don't worry about coming up with clever retorts, and let your presence be known.

[M_A_Martin]

I've seen bike accidents because someone didn't announce they were passing...

So if I pass a Group I just yell really really loud so everyone can hear "ON YOUR LEFT" so they don't do something stupid like swerve in front of me...

The guy closest has a heart attack and falls off his bike...but the rest of the bikes know I'm coming through.



a bike bell works too...a more polite, genteel alert.

[flydhest]

If I'm riding with a group, I'll give a yell or lots of space and as I'm passing, I'll point out how many others are coming behind me.

I personally hate bells. I find them startling and confusing.

The problem with "on your left" is that I've had about one in five people hear it and move left, in my experience around here.

Either way, I don't see any real solution. Just suck it up and don't let it bother you. Just say "sorry" and keep riding. There's nothing to be done.

[M_A_Martin]

Nobody is ever happy. I think in part they just don't like to get passed.

Hey, maybe she had the hots for ya? Maybe she was annoyed you just blasted past and didn't halt due to her unbelievable beauty? Maybe she was just trying to make conversation? Maybe you should have asked her out?

[PanTerra]

The problem with "on your left" is that I've had about one in five people hear it and move left, in my experience around here.

That really gets irritating. That usually happens with walkers on our trial, they hear left and move left, or just hear something, turn around to see what it is and veer left on the path. I'll ring my ping bell several times well before I get to them, but then they just think it is the ice-cream vendor. if they are listening to their ipod, they won't hear me anyway :no:

[Len J]

I find that there are three type of riders I pass.......

1.) Those that want you to let them know you are there and handle it appropriatly.

2.) Those that, when they hear "On your left", look over their left shoulder, moving their weight left & drift left into your path. &

3.) Those that get annoyed when you yell "on your left", because it surprises them.

The problem is, you can't tell in advance which type you have.

I would have responded......."The last time I yelled "on your left", the cyclist looked over his shoulder and drifted in fromt of me, forcing me into traffic." I think that would have shut her up.

The key, as always is to be hyper vigilant.

Len

[zap]

I say nothing. Seen to many crashes when people say on your left.

I'll take the verbal abuse.

But take heart. Real cyclists understand if you say nothing.

[Too Tall]

I tend to slow down to almost their speed and say hi or just acknowledge...the blown' their doors off bit is old. I don't do this 100% of the time but do make the effort. A really tough call is when I'm doing intervals and do pass folks like nut on wheels...they usually catch me during recovery and I'll say "don't pay ANY attention to me I'm doing intervals".

Sunday I was riding with 4 really strong guys and were were rolling gently at 18-21 on flat ground when we passed some sport riders who actually sped up and would not let us pull around....THEY were pretty agressive...so I slowed down smiled and said "doods, we ain't racing you"...to which they replied "We aren't either" and they chilled out and sat in our draft a respectful distance and later thanked us for the tow.

Like it or not people's gots eggos ;) It's a small world, life is short. Do a good job when you can. EVERYONE is allowed to misbehave with no consequences sometimes. Thanks for the fish.

[christian]

I like to tap them twice gently on the lower back so they can take my wheel as I pass. :)

When I'm passing a group of obvious club cyclists, I typically say "AhnYerLeff," but when passing commuters/regular cyclists (who clearly don't need any notice), I usually just give a reasonable berth.

Personally, I find the AhnYerLeff thing kind of annoying. But since being dressed down by a woman on the Bloomin' Metric last year, just as you describe, I reluctantly do it for "club" cyclists.

My typical feeling is this - I'll hold my line. You hold yours. If there's an obstacle that I need to avoid while you're passing me, you'll have given me enough of a berth that we can both comfortably move left if needed. I prefer "nice rig," or "hello," to the incessant "AhnYerLeff."

- Christian

[William]

I tend to slow down to almost their speed and say hi or just acknowledge...
Ditto.

I'll check to make sure there are no cars coming and then swing wide. I usually just say "Hi" as I pass. No big. In my personal experience I've had to many people veer left when I call out "on your left".

William

[Climb01742]

this morning i passed a guy and simply said "hi" (my usual utterance) and the poor guy almost had a heart attack. i think he was zoning out and i surprised him. i always try to say something, just to let them know i'm there. from my skiing past, i sometimes say "hold your line", which seems to work better than on your left -- hold your line seems to leave very little room for misinterpretation.

[M_A_Martin]

BOO...I like Boo!

(only when I'm passing people who are faster than me...and I know them really well...makes for a nice chase...)

[PanTerra]

From my skiing past, I sometimes say "hold your line", which seems to work better than on your left -- hold your line seems to leave very little room for misinterpretation.

That reminds me of something I learned skiing. When I heard someone yelling behind me, "OUT OF CONTROL!!" it really made us ski straight until they passed. I tried it myself when passing and it really worked. Never tried it on a bike though.

[flydhest]

Alas, I've seen people take umbrage at "hold your line," seeing it more as a criticism and you're saying "you're not holding your line, so shape up." Never seemed to matter the tone with which it was said. If you say it loud enough for someone to hear while riding, you're pretty much yelling regardless.

"Boo!" makes me think of the time spent as a track runner at William and Mary. We would do our warm up runs in Colonial Williamsburg and the tourons (tourist+morons) would walk with their heads anywhere but where they were going. If one egregiously walked straight in front of us, there were a couple guys on the team who loved to yell "Boo!" to scare them. It seemed fun at the time, but then I was only 19 or so. Now, it seems like, . . . well, something a punk kid would do.

[zap]

Come to think of it, I get passed all the time these days and I don't recall anyone saying "on your left". Not even from Sandy.

[flydhest]

keno has to yell "on your left" whenever we're having a political discussion.

[M_A_Martin]

Fly! You were a punk kid?

I only Boo people I know really well who are faster than me! It offends the ones I know who are slower than I am...

And never to strangers!

I never understood why people are annoyed at tourists...Tourists...aren't they *supposed* to be looking at everything? They do exactly what they're supposed to do...meander and gawk...

[jasflyfisher]

Just recently I read (perhaps in The Art of Urban Cycling which I picked up on a recommendation from a thread here or perhaps somewhere else on the web) a suggestion to use "passing" instead of "on your left" because it tends to help eliminate confusion between right and left.

It seems to make sense to me, but I can't report back on the success of this approach becuase given my current fitness level, I haven't had a chance to use it yet.

[CalfeeFly]

Living somewhere with the roads literally crumbling and glass everywhere I get very upset when a bicycle goes by me silently. If I swerve to miss the latest beer bottle broken on the road or a pot hole that would bend my rim we will both go down in a heap. The odds are both the riders and bikes will not come out without injury.

On your left can be confusing. On trails I call out "heads up" or anything that gets their attention. This is for bikes and people. I distance ran for years and a bike coming by can scare the crap out of you.

Most time with bikes when I get close I say hello, nice day, whatever and he/she knows I'm there. I've done it that way for years. I was really happy to see a Lance Chronicle last year that filmed him on a training ride that I think was in Austin. Going up a hill he was blowing off other cyclists. He had the same technique...he said,"hello, hi, how are you doing...It works and it is a friendly way to do it. :beer:

[bcm119]

If you were flying along with the cars, and she was in the bike lane, I don't think theres any reason to say anything to her as you pass. Especially in a city. If you were both on a quiet country road, I would say "hi" or "nice day huh?" as I passed. Alot of people in the club-ride mindset take the whole bike-speak thing too seriously. You don't have to announce every move you make on the bike. How many times do you actually need to react when someone yells something? The only reaction I have is sometimes to jump a little because the club-riders tend to bark so damn loud. If everyone rides in a straight line, theres little reason to be yelling at each other. Part of the enjoyment of cycling is that its quiet! :)

[M_A_Martin]

You know...she probably had that hammered into her when she forgot to say it when she passed someone else.

"I have to say it, everyone else does to!"

[BumbleBeeDave]

. . . make some sort of judgement as I approach about how to handle it.

Walkers on the bike path? . . . Yell while still at least 50 feet from them because the majority are in another world.

Riders on the road? . . . Depends. If there's a lot of room I'll just swerve out and give them plenty of clearance, If not, then I generally say something well before I actually move out to pass.

What continues to surprise me, though, is how many people on foot and bikes seem to be truly oblivious, whether they are wearing earphones, talking to a friend, whatever . . .

BBDave

[scrooge]

Maybe I'm to much of a small town boy (Okay, there's no question about that), but what about just being friendly? It doesn't bother me to get passed, but it does bother me when people can't say "hi." To me, when people don't say anything or acknowledge you, it reinforces "roadies are snobs" stereo-types. I'm one of those people who prefers to wave and say hi to anybody on a bike--whether it's some one a meet coming head on (and,yes, it irks me when they don't say anything back) or somebody I pass, or a kid riding on the sidewalk. THe overly-sentimental part of me likes to think that we're all a part of a nice cycling family and that we have a common understanding which we acknowledge when we give a wave or a nod etc.

As to saying "on your left", I've often wondered about that one. Personally, I've had another cyclist scare the crap out of me when he didn't say anything. I was just getting started at a stop light, just got through the intersection, when some guy in a team kit who had managed to hit the light when it was green blows by me so close that he about knocked me over (he apparently had to pass close because there were cars passing in the lane too and he just couldn't wait). He never said a word, which I found to be downright prick-ish. :fight:
On the other hand, I've had it where I've caught people and don't want to scare them by yelling "On your left!" So what I do is hang back until there are no cars, announce my presence, and proceed to pass. Or I just go slow and keep a decent gap between us until we go our seperate ways (after all, if I pass them, I feel like I need to put a sizeable gap between us quickly, which I'm not always able to do).

[Matt Barkley]

"On your left" and "clear" are two ways cyclists do not become better cyclists: Cyclists who are actually aware of their surroundings.

A little whistle which says, "heads up" is usually my method.

This "on your left" phenomenon I believe comes from the liability scare the trainers coach the riders of benifit rides to say when approaching riders ahead. I have also recently seen more and more out-of control riders attempting to point out pot holes with their hands off the bars meanwhile almost taking themselves and others out in the proccess. Relax, be aware, and be in control of yer' cycle. "On yer leff" does seem like a common courtesy - but I'd rather see riders more aware and in control. - :) - Matt

[RichMc]

If it's a reasonably close pass, 3 to 5 feet, I'll say "on yer left" or "left" or "comin' around you" or "passing" well before I pass them. That way if they get startled and move off their line I'll have time to react. No one likes the announcement when it's done right off the rear wheel. If I'm passing with a wider berth or when in large group rides, where there's massive passing going on, then I don't bother. Like it was said earlier, cars & trucks pass closer all the time. Riders have to deal with that. I just don't like it when a car driver comes up from behind and blows the horn. THAT makes me jump.

[Ti Designs]

"Next time you pass someone, announce 'on your left', it's a common courtesy"

It is? Why didn't anybody tell me about these common courtesies? And how common is it?

People have weird ideas of what common courtesy is or should be. It's all based on their view of the world which is different than every other view of the world. When I drive I interact with other drivers with two basic guidelines in mine. One is the law, can't affortd tickets. The other is simply not wanting to be an a$$hole. If it's a one lane road and traffic is stopped but there's enough room for a car to squeeze by on the side, I don't. That's a self centered move saying the people in front of me don't count - making me the a$$hole. Clearly the whole world doens't feel that way. My point is that I don't project my own standards on others - just because one person says "on your left" doens't mean all of them will.

Personally, I try to be friendly when I ride - it's come back to bite me at times. One time on the 200K brevet from Boston one rider had shifter troubles going up a hill and his chain was skipping everywhere. I got in next to him, put a hand on his back and gave him a push up the hill so he wouldn't fall over. I was on my fixed gear, so at the top of the hill, as I was riding away I yelled back "see, you should never trust derailleurs!!!". I had kept him from falling over and probably taking out other riders, I pushed him up a hill, and IT WAS A JOKE. That didn't stop him from complaining about me...

This is a silly issue, it's about the expectation of a greeting or warning. From now on people should assume that there's someone on their left or right unless otherwise noted - there, problem solved.

[eddief]

I can sorta subscribe to "on the left" depending on circumstances. But the tradition yelling of "clear!" seems like a request to kill or be killed.

If you believe it will be clear for you just because it was clear for the person who yells it, I would like to wish you the best of luck. I never ever consider it a courtesy to have my riding buddies yell clear, and I will never assume anything for my friends in this regard. Just like your parents told you, "look both ways before you cross the street."

[BURCH]

In the situation described, it sounded like they were riding on the paint or some type of bike lane. And inGobwetrust was more in with car traffic and flying. In that situation, I don't see the point of yelling anything. Does she expect every car to toot its horn as it approaches? I mean you weren't a foot from her left, correct?

I would use, "on your left" in most situations on the road, but probably never while in the car lane going a lot faster than a group or single rider on the paint. Maybe I didn't understand the situation correctly...but to me you were no different than a car, which would never scream, "on your left".

[SMUGator]

I agree that it's a situational call. When pace permits, I like to announce myself as I approach with something like "on your wheel" or "rider back". Then when it's safe to pass, I just say "Passing" with a quick "thanks" if I can get one in. I like to know about another rider as they are approaching rather than as they are under my armpit if it's possible.

[M_A_Martin]

You know...it is situational...ages ago I used to say "Hi"....

In a holdover from my days on the farm when you really want the animal to know you're back there and that you're a human so they don't clock you one...I'd pedal along and start with a hi back a ways...then another one a little closer...then when I was closer another hi. Hey there, how's it going...And a Hi HI on my way past. On the theory that if they heard someone say hi behind them, perhaps they didn't hear the first one and rather than spook them it didn't put me out any to say hello again...

Unfortunately what works with horses doesn't work with people so my chorus of "hi hi Hi Hi HI hi-hi!" would scare them as much as just saying "On your Left." Same reaction, they either hold their line, freak out, or swerve into my line...

So now if I'm passing I just give them lots of room...I do yell "on your left" if I'm passing a group...

But then, I haven't passed anyone in so long it's sort of a moot point for me.

[Ken Lehner]

I have been doored before, I have been hit by a car (albeit while running), I have seen other bikers hit by cars, I have seen pedestrians walk out in front of bikers, but I honestly have never seen an accident result because someone forgot to say "on your left."


In fact, a woman was seriously injured a few years back in Philadelphia by this very thing. There is (was?) a famous informal group ride on West River Drive (I think) that was killer fast. One day, the pack came upon a woman JRA. They flew past her, she freaked and turned into the pack and got creamed. Lawsuits followed.

How about pretending that you are riding with someone else and yell out "rider(s) up", like you are warning your imaginary buddies? The overtakee then knows there is someone behind them, and you'll have a chance to react to their reaction to your presence.

[weisan]

Articles regarding that incident Ken mentioned.

A CYCLING WAKE UP CALL (http://www.bamacyclist.com/articles/wakeupcall.html)

Wipeout - A bike accident leads to a legal wrangle. (http://citypaper.net/articles/031998/howcol.shtml)

Side Swiped (http://citypaper.net/articles/092498/onmedia3.shtml)

[GoJavs]

But I do make a point of using the more cordial "good morning" right about 10-15 feet before I pass someone...

I do get some odd looks when I do that in the middle of the afternoon. :bike:

[Skrawny]

Two local variations on this theme:

1) On the Golden Gate Bridge "passing on your left" does not work well at all. I think because half of the people are either trying to translate "left" into their own language, or are caught in some kind of view inspired fugue and unable to understand that they are wandering in the way. I still say it and hope they don't hear it and move to the left.

2)We have whole pelotons of people out on the roads right now training for the AIDS Lifecycle event. I don't mean to put them down at all, 585miles in 7 days is nothing to scoff at, but there are a lot of newbies riding in large packs. They are pretty wobbly, all loaded down with brand new gear, and tend to point out EVERY reflector on the road. Fortunately they have been well briefed and know what "On your left" means. I have found that the best way to work my way past these folks is to take a big breath and prepare to say "on you left" about 20 times...

-s

[SPOKE]

"on your right" works real well. i just haven't had the chance to say it much this year since almost everyone passes me on the left due to my poor fitness level. wish i could blame it on the bike :p

[eddief]

Talk about destruction derby. A bizillion tourist on rented bikes. Talk about an apptitude/language/coordination barrier. One of the most delightful cruises on a bike made scary by fog, wet, not too bright site seers. I consider it a technical challenge to get from one end to the other espcially on a nice Summer day. I really like those people who stop at the towers to take pictures and things get all bunched up and the hot rodders get all figuratively or litterally bent out of shape.

[keno]

similarly, "on your left" would be something never said to you.

keno

[christian]

I think my new technique will involve the doppler effect.

I'll just hum an F, but people will hear

"nnnnnneeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaaooooooooouuuuuuuuuwwwwwww"

as I pass them. And you faster types will hear

"wwwwwwwuuuuuuuuuuoooooooooooaaaaaaaaeeeeeeeennnnnn"

as you go by.

Won't that be fun.

- Christian

[flydhest]

similarly, "on your left" would be something never said to you.

keno

except when followed by ", comrade."

[zap]

weisan-interesting article. Anyone have an update on the "suit".

I wonder if there are more John Doe riders out there now.

[Climb01742]

ah, nevermind

[PanTerra]

ah, nevermind

Oh come on. When I got the email notification of your post, I had thought of another one.

[OldDog]

Would'nt ya love to sneak up on this woman and give her a long blast from a tractor trailer air horn, then a polite "on yer left" :D

In general, we cyclists are a wierd lot. One time I was riding the Covered Bridge Metric in Lancaster with my wife, on our singles. We were riding at her pace, around a 12 -14 average. This guy was hanging behind us. I can't say drafting we were going so slow, uphill. Anyway he started critisizing me for no reason. "your pedaling to slow, keep your rpms up for better efficency". (I had a 23 on the back staying aside my wife who was spinning a triple) "put your hands on your hoods, you'll breath better". Other dumb comments not solicited. I'd wave him on by but he hung back there. I dropped back and asked why the lesson? Panting, he replied, "I'm LAW Certified Cycling Instructor #XXX. Uh, OK. I rejoined my wife and gave her the nod to up the pace and we got away from him. We came up behind him after we enjoyed a long rest stop, he was coaching another poor soul.

Before I get flamed for dissing a LAW/LAB CCI, I know what they are and respect what they wish to accomplish. This guy was annoying, like the woman with the "on yer left" lesson.

[dgauthier]

What I do is completely dependent on who I'm passing:

a) A group of 20-something females walking/jogging while talking on cell phones:
Announce "Coming up behind you." about 50 feet back. This keeps them from panicking and scattering in all directions. (I am being completely serious.) Follow that with "Stick to the right, please", because any mention of the word 'left' prior to saying this *guarantees* they'll move left. Follow up with "Passing on your left."
b) An overweight individual in street clothes on a trail bike:
Announce "Coming up behind you" about 20 feet back. Follow with "Passing on your left."
c) A fit rider on a mountain bike on the road:
Announce "Coming up behind you" about 15 feet back. Follow with "On your left."
d) A fit rider on a road bike:
Announce "On your left" about 10 feet back.

[Climb01742]

ok, pan, i'll try another way into it...

now that we know what we should say, what SHOULDN'T we never, ever say as we pass a fellow cyclist?

later, sucker...

i didn't know lycra stretched that far...

when did the training wheels fall off?

ever tried pedaling?

how ya been, sandy?



*and now a word from our legal staff: :rolleyes: :p ;) :D

[M_A_Martin]

...those are pedals, not footrests.

(useful in ALL sorts of situations...)



"shouldn't we never"?
that's right...climb is in advertising

[Climb01742]

there's proper english...then there's how people talk...sometimes double negatives make the point better than just one measly negative. :banana:

[inGobwetrust]

Does anyone know how the Alice Sherlock incident/lawsuit ended up? What was the final outcome? Does the Drives still take place? Would some of the new good samaritan laws cover a cyclist who stops to help an injured party apply here if this were to take place today?

[BumbleBeeDave]

<<I'm LAW Certified Cycling Instructor #XXX.>>

That’s gotta be BS on his part! Is there even such as thing as a “LAW certified instructor?”

You should have told him, “Oh, yeah? Well, I’m an AMA certified plastic surgeon and if you don’t be quiet I’m gonna sew your mouth shut!” :rolleyes:

BBD

[OldDog]

BBMan - yes there is. Teaches how to ride a bike on the road, according to all rules of the road. "Act like a car and be respected like a car". Follows John Foresters philosiphy. Actually not a bad program. Check it out at the LAB site. I was a LAB/LAW member for years, support advocacy and all that. Then I felt the originization went downhill,member services went out the window and I have not renewed for some time.

Back to Turbo Tax.....

[pbbob]

I pass slowly and don't usually say much more than excuse me. I figure that most people that are out to ride didn't really plan on hearing me speak that day.

[Hard Fit]

Personally, I hate it when a fellow cyclist flies by me without any warning. And the closer they pass by, the madder I get. I think it is just dangerous. I try to as politely as possible notify anyone I am passing. I try not to scare them and not be rude. Remember, the pedestrian you treat rudely can be the SUV driver who treats you rudely later.

[Dr. Doofus]

throw fresh cut flowers and chicken livers

it works for doof

[SGP]

throw fresh cut flowers and chicken livers

it works for doof

you give them snacks? cool!

[PanTerra]

ok, pan, i'll try another way into it...

now that we know what we should say, what SHOULDN'T we never, ever say as we pass a fellow cyclist?
later, sucker...
i didn't know lycra stretched that far...
when did the training wheels fall off?
ever tried pedaling?
how ya been, sandy?

*and now a word from our legal staff: :rolleyes: :p ;) :D

Hey, where did you learn how to ride that thing...CORRESPONDENCE SCHOOL?

[Rich_W]

I prefer "hold your line"... less confusing... or I say nothing. If they catch me at a light and have something to say... I'll ignore it, and play the stuck-up-elitist-roadie routine.

Anyway... I love wabbits... nothing like seeing someone waaay up in the dcistance, and you mission is catch, pass, and drop.