New bike for my wife

[sjbraun]

Its time to replace my wife's 2003 Lemond Zurich. My wife is 5' 6", with short legs and a long torso. In discussing a frame with a local builder, he was thinking a frame built around 650c wheels might be a good idea. Granted, we were talking in general terms and he has yet to take any measurements, so his thoughts may change. I can't say I'm too excited about switching to 650c wheels. There are few tire options and even those come in limited sizes. (I could only find one tire wider than 23mm.) The goals for this bike are stability and comfort. My wife is an increasingly strong rider, but she feels like her Lemond is a bit too quick handling for her tastes. She gets scared on descents and needs a bike that will carve turns confidently. To my mind, that means a longer wheelbase, (her Lemond measures just 97cm with 40.6cm chainstays,) and more BB drop than her Lemond, (70mm.)

But then, I'm not a frame builder and don't know anymore than I've gleaned from years of internet surfing.

Any thoughts on the sizing a bike for a short legged rider?

Steve-always excited about a new bike project, even if its not for me

[thegunner]

h'm well i'm 5'7" with short legs and a long torso, and i do just fine on a 48 cm cannondale, so you can chew on that in terms of stock sizing. i'd guess an XS giant would serve the purpose even better with a longer stem. the point is, it's definitely possible to run 700 cc wheels on a bike like this, don't compromise on wheels if you don't like it. they're custom builders, they should be able to do what you need!

[Pete Serotta]

There are many fine frame builders. All the ones posting here are 1st class and depending on what part of the country you live might help in the selection process.


As to posters on fit and sizing... None beat Smiley.

[Ken Robb]

The Rivendell site may still have archived discussions about Grant's opinions on bike fit. On some of their bikes he switched from 700mm to 26 inch when the size got small. They also offered several bikes with 650b wheels which offer tires that I prefer to the selection in 650c.

I like my bars and saddle even or bars higher. Luckily I don't care about standover so I'm able to ride frames that are "too big" for me. Your wife may not mind about stand over either. I always stop with the bike leaning to the side.

[thwart]

I have 2 650c bikes in the herd---for one of my daughters and my wife (both are about 5'1" or so). Both bikes are Waterfords. They really like 650c wheels in their small frame sizes.

The bikes handle very well and not much toe overlap (which can scare the sh*t out of newbie riders when it occurs).

True, tire selection is limited, but you can get by. Right now Conti Gatorskins on one (gets a lot of commuter use), and Conti 4000's on the other. Got decent deals on all the tires... did not pay MSRP. But, yes, they are 23's. Remember that a 23 tire when rider weight is ~ 120 lbs is like a 25 for the rest of us.

I think that you're on the right track with your thoughts on frame geometry, though. Usually I wouldn't think a 650c road bike for anyone who is 5'6". But, hey, I'm not a frame builder... :D

[David Kirk]

Do you know about what length top tube she needs? TT length, more than anything else, will determine wheel size.

Dave

[AngryScientist]

Do you know about what length top tube she needs? TT length, more than anything else, will determine wheel size.

Dave

is that because of the need to prevent bad toe overlap ?

[sjbraun]

but the effective TT, as measured by me and noted on the geometry chart is 53cm.

[SPOKE]

Listen carefully to Mr. Kirk.....he gets it.
Also, short stems and/or short riser stems make hi-performance bikes "feel" quicker.

[soulspinner]

Listen carefully to Mr. Kirk.....he gets it.
Also, short stems and/or short riser stems make hi-performance bikes "feel" quicker.

Some of my buddies still insist longer stems are quicker steering.... :crap:

[Ahneida Ride]

Listen carefully to Mr. Kirk.....he gets it.
Also, short stems and/or short riser stems make hi-performance bikes "feel" quicker.

Amen on Prof. Kirk ...

If she is a tough build, definitely pick the brains of Kirk, Bedford and Dave
Wages. see if they converge on a fit.

There are very established and world class builders across
the hall at the V-salon. Definitely spend time there.

PM Smiley too. ;)

[David Kirk]

If the top tube is in the 53 cm range and the seat angle isn't really slack (say less than 73°) then I don't see a reason why 650 wheels would be needed.

I have absolutely nothing against 650's. I think a very nice riding and looking bike can be made using 650s and that they can be, and often are, a very good choice on smaller bikes. I know tire sizes are a bit limited and that gearing needs to be adjusted but if those things aren't an issue I would have no qualms about building around 650's. Sometimes smaller bikes can be made to handle better using 650's because the wheelbase and front center can be shorter and more appropriate for the size of the rider.


Dave

[David Kirk]

is that because of the need to prevent bad toe overlap ?

Yep.

dave

[SPOKE]

Say you wish to turn your front wheel to the left/right 5 degrees the arc length that the handlebar swings will be longer with the longer reach stem. This is why the longer stem makes the bike steer slower.
I learned this from Tom Kellogg several years ago.

[David Kirk]

Say you wish to turn your front wheel to the left/right 5 degrees the arc length that the handlebar swings will be longer with the longer reach stem. This is why the longer stem makes the bike steer slower.
I learned this from Tom Kellogg several years ago.

Eggsactly - your hands need to move in a longer arc to get the same steering angle. Maybe even more importantly a longer stem puts more weight on the front wheel which in turn give the trail more self centering force and that makes the bike more stable.

Longish stems can be a very good thing.

dave

[Ken Robb]

I like more stable---a lot.

[Doug Fattic]

I'm guessing that your framebuilder was trying to get you to accept the possibility of 650C wheels as an option. Because that size is different they raise suspicion and possible rejection based on the fear of not being like everyone else rather than what is best for a particular situation. He and you or us isn't going to know what is best until her 3 contact points are established. This early warning gives you time to make the mental adjustment if he finds out that is her best option.

I built frames for my wife and daughter with 650C wheels (and lots of women actually). They are normal height (5'4" and 5'5") and have a saddle heights (center of bb to top of saddle) of 69 and 70.5cm. I could have built them with 700C too but everything worked a little better with the 650s. On my daughter's frame I made the fork and seat stay brake bridge at such a length that I can swap out her short reach breaks for 47-57s and use MTB 559 wheels when we want to do something more adventurous. There is a 2mm range where I can use both.

Gearing using 650c wheels is actually better for a normal person with normal fitness that isn't training with racers. It requires about a 1 tooth smaller cog difference in the rear to be the same as its bigger cousin. In other words a 52 X 13 on a 700c is about the same as a 52 X`12 on a 650c. If she is pedaling at a cadence of 90 revolutions per minute in that gear, she will be going around 28 mph. If she could raise her cadence to 120 she'd be going 37 miles an hour. I'd be willing to bet that too low gearing won't be an issue.

One more thing about a women's bicycle fit. Much more than men they like to have handlebars level with their saddles so they don't get uncomfortable pressure on their crotch. Not always and everyone is different so it isn't wise to make that a general rule but most likely that is the case. A bigger frame means a longer head tube so there isn't as many ugly stackers or excessive stem extension required above the headset. Smaller wheels allow a bigger frame size with the same straddle height (which makes it easier to get a higher handlebar height). And in my opinion, a smaller frame looks more proportional if the down tube and head tube lugs aren't squashed close together.

Doug

[soulspinner]

I love this thread :beer: