View Full Version : Excell Tubing - Give me the 411
What up yo?
Since we were recently on the topic of tigged vs. brazing, can someone give me the 411 on Excell tubing from France? I understand that it is no longer in production, but was it good tubing when it was in production? Thoughts?
Thanks,
Antonio :beer:
This was a mid to late 80's answer to the "new" Reynolds 753 and then 853. It was a tight-grained higher-tensile chrome-moly tube set known, at least in some cases, to be somewhat brittle. According to one now long-retired builder I sourced for some of my customers it was difficult to work with, but worth the effort.
If I remember correctly, it was also slightly larger diameter than most other tubesets at the time...I once spent a frantic Friday sourcing a then difficult-to-find 27.4 diameter seatpost for a woman set to fly to France that night. She was to compete in the Tour de France Feminine on her custom excell frameset... I got her the seatpost, but, alas, she didn't do well.
If you're buying a frame built with it simply inspect it carefully. If there are no cracks or other damage you should be fine.
Dr. Doofus
04-11-2005, 08:23 PM
dario says the excell podium tubeset was his all-time fav to work with
the 90s stuff was basically like nivachrome (tube experts -- is that accurate or has the doof been misled?)...the cromex stuff was durable and rode well, as was the eco -- tons of old giordanas made from that stuff...and the last generation of pre-trek lemond steels were made from excell tubing
awesome stuff.....the jerk had a gazelle made out of it...it didn't break and it rode great...which is not common for gazelles.
jerk
Big Dan
04-11-2005, 08:33 PM
Rode a Lemond Excell GLX this weekend for a couple of days and the ride was fantastic. By looking at the frame I had a feeling that it was going to be a noodle, I was wrong. It has great balance and feel. Actually I think I'll take it out tomorrow and leave the Serottas and Merckx at home.... :D
Included a small pic of the work in progress. Campy 8 speed and some other crap I had around since the early 90's.
eddief
04-11-2005, 09:15 PM
They are the only place where I have ever seen these for sale. Seems they have had them forever. I've been tempted many times by the relaxed geometry and I like the look of the paint. Too bad no more steel forks, but I'd be curious about the ride.
http://www.bikyle.com/GiordanaFrm.asp#Geometry
Dr. Doofus
04-11-2005, 09:24 PM
They are the only place where I have ever seen these for sale. Seems they have had them forever. I've been tempted many times by the relaxed geometry and I like the look of the paint. Too bad no more steel forks, but I'd be curious about the ride.
http://www.bikyle.com/GiordanaFrm.asp#Geometry
rumor is that the ones still at the gita warehouse are going out with tange chrome forks...those frames were designed for 50mm rakes (in the 73 hta frames)....spicer has those forks for something sick like 50 bucks...of course, this is all just conjecture...doof wouldn't know anything about it...just a rumor
GoJavs
04-11-2005, 09:34 PM
Made me look real hard at my collection...Nimble, quick, very responsive....Up there with my 753-built Waterford 1200... :)
eddief
04-11-2005, 09:37 PM
just curious.
GoJavs
04-11-2005, 09:42 PM
I'm allergic to Carbon. Won't even eat barbeque. :D
If you look closely at the pictures of my custom Pegoretti Luigino you can see the Excell tubing decal on the seat tube. Dario told me that when he was having trouble sourcing tubing for Emma's Big Legs---a rather long story of what goes around, comes around---he went to France and there found about a dozen Excell tubesets. The same tubing, he said, was used on the bikes he made for a few great riders, though I shan't divulge lest I be caught in a rain storm of speculation. Suffice it to say that Excell reigns supreme, much like the Iron Chef. So there are a few Luiginos now made of Excell and perhaps if you ask nicely Dario has one with your name on it. Dario also visited Bianchi to spy out the various shades of Legnano green so that he might meet my request to honor his mentor with a bike painted in the style of green greatness.
dbrk
the jerk loves that bike. the big leg emma is almost built....you guys will be impressed...the jerk promises.
jerk
mdeeds71
04-11-2005, 10:23 PM
I have a 56 Giordana XL strada...It was never built but had a stem/bar/brakes/headset and a BB put on it....Oh and a seat post...It has a few chips in the paint...One from the fork/brakes coming around...but I recall no dings in the tubes...If someone would be interested in it I will definately sell it...
It is a Red/White much like the link that was put on this thread earlier...
PM me if interested...It is at my fathers house...will take a little time to get photos...but would be a great foul weather bike.
Mark
Dr. Doofus
04-11-2005, 10:40 PM
I have a 56 Giordana XL strada...It was never built but had a stem/bar/brakes/headset and a BB put on it....Oh and a seat post...It has a few chips in the paint...One from the fork/brakes coming around...but I recall no dings in the tubes...If someone would be interested in it I will definately sell it...
It is a Red/White much like the link that was put on this thread earlier...
PM me if interested...It is at my fathers house...will take a little time to get photos...but would be a great foul weather bike.
Mark
a surly is a foul weather bike. a NOS Giordana is a pimp ride
mdeeds71
04-11-2005, 11:50 PM
Okay, then...How about gold plated Campy... :cool:
and some spinners on the wheels... :banana:
Just keep the fingers out...to late :no:
CNote
04-11-2005, 11:57 PM
This one's a '99 with lugged steel fork and all. TIG'd frame, though. Rides like a dream!
Excell was the best steel tubing available in the mid to late '80's.
They also had a steel/carbon fiber tube set which was thin gauge steel tubing with carbon fiber tubing inserted when the steel was heated and the carbon was chilled. Made for a fairly light frameset for that era. Almost bought a frameset to go along with that Roval wheelset. :rolleyes:
Jerk- You sure take your time building a bike. Whats up?
Dr. Doofus
04-12-2005, 11:17 AM
Cnote -- is that a Giordana fork on that Pego?????
Big Dan
04-12-2005, 11:21 AM
I think Dario will make you a steel fork if you ask and paid extra for a custom feature. Last year I was going for a Palosanto with a steel fork and was told it could happen......Should have done it........... :crap:
btw..nice steed C......
CNote
04-12-2005, 11:55 AM
Cnote -- is that a Giordana fork on that Pego?????
I've always assumed the fork crown was Giordana since the BB shell is clearly engraved Giordana. I'm awaiting confirmation. I've been informed by "someone" in the know that it is more likely a 94/95 vintage.
Dr. Doofus
04-12-2005, 12:01 PM
food will always remember seeing his first Pego, in 1995. Ashley Powell (a southeast stud who could have been a very, very good pro if he had come along six or ten years later when the US scene was different...but he's still pretty freakin strong now) had a plain white excell steel with the plainest paint and ugliest, low-rent decals you've seen in your life.
everyone thought it was an "italian budget frame" until the doof set them straight about who dario was, and then all of a sudden everyone was in a tizzy...this was before he had a US importer, and if you wanted one you had to go to some lengths to get it...but ashley was a beast and knew what he wanted....
Too Tall
04-12-2005, 12:31 PM
My Clark Kent AX-1 is made of this. GREAT bike!
nelson
04-15-2005, 12:02 PM
The Giordana bb and fork on the Pegoretti makes since as we had Dario build many prototype Giordana frames both before the line was introduced and during its production. Most of the "one-off" Giordanas were build by Dario, though some were built by Isadoro from Excel. As I recall, all of the tig-welded Giordanas were built by Dario. The vast majority of these frames would have had Giordana decals. I only recall a couple of special order frames late in the Giordana frame days to have Pegoretti decals. I don't think he even had his own decals prior to that.
Dr. Doofus
04-15-2005, 01:10 PM
hey nelson --
this is digging back a way, but how do you think ashley got that pegoretti in 1995? was gita somehow involved, or had he gone to the source?
thinking that the name was painted on now...no decals? whatever....
the XL-ECO that was dug out of the warehouse about a month ago has no tubing decal on it (rasperry/silver)...excell or something else? not that it matters...its a nice bike...and who made those (Isadoro??)?
Dr. Doofus
04-15-2005, 04:57 PM
nice email from nelson --
doof says: if you can snag a NOS Giordana, do it. Doof had two in the 90s, one wobbled and was replaced with a gem. The other, along with the Rasperry Pimp, is perfect. Turns out those puppies were made by Billato...
sure the decals are cheesy, but what sweet frames for little moolah
jamesdak
12-15-2017, 09:15 AM
Zombie Thread - Reviving for additional info for those researching Excell tubing. I've put several thousand miles now on a NOS Giordana XL Super that Nelson hooked me up with from the factory in 2015. This is one of the Excell Podium frames. If I had to give up all but one of my 20+ steel bikes this Giordana is the one I would keep. It is that good.
Like mentioned I had to get mine with a chromed ECO fork as a Podium one was not available anymore. The bike rides amazingly good under me. I know that is subjective but it just feels so "right" under me no matter how I'm using it. Flat out at speed, diving hard in a curve, sprinting, climbing, descending at 50 MPH+, etc,etc...
It seems like you hear about these being brittle anytime they are talked about. All I can say is mine get's taken care of but ridden hard. I weigh in the 180-190 lb range last years and ride fairly rough, beaten up roads. The frame has held up perfectly. On one routine descent theres a dip in the road you hit around 45 mph that is hard to see and impossible to miss. If you're not ready for it the jolt will shoot you out of the saddle. If a frame was going to fail I'd expect it to give with this hit under my weight. I don't think the "brittle" issue is really a valid thing. In fact I just bought another "grail" bike for me. A Lemond GAN made by the same wonderful Billato team from Excell GLX. I have no concerns about the tubing. Anyway just wanted to share my thoughts on this as there are still some of these out there and others may researching. I'm constantly fighting the urge to contact Nelson to see if more are left. My current one built up at 19 lbs 6 ozs without even trying to be light. I'd love to get another Podium frame and build it light. I bet it would be truly magical.
http://www.pbase.com/jhuddle/image/164621709.jpg
There is this exact frame listed on the "Steel is Real" webpage for sale at what I think is a steal of a price for one of these.
merckx
12-15-2017, 09:44 AM
This was a mid to late 80's answer to the "new" Reynolds 753 and then 853. It was a tight-grained higher-tensile chrome-moly tube set known, at least in some cases, to be somewhat brittle. According to one now long-retired builder I sourced for some of my customers it was difficult to work with, but worth the effort.
If I remember correctly, it was also slightly larger diameter than most other tubesets at the time...I once spent a frantic Friday sourcing a then difficult-to-find 27.4 diameter seatpost for a woman set to fly to France that night. She was to compete in the Tour de France Feminine on her custom excell frameset... I got her the seatpost, but, alas, she didn't do well.
If you're buying a frame built with it simply inspect it carefully. If there are no cracks or other damage you should be fine.
I had a mid-90's ECO. Really fabulous machine. I suffered in many races on that frame, and enjoyed every moment. Regarding brittle tubes, my fork developed a crack just below the crown within a couple of months of ownership. No trauma to the frame or fork, just found it when cleaning it one day. Don't tell my mother, but I replaced the fork with a Colnago Precisa because Gita didn't have a replacement. I continued to ride it for several additional years.
oliver1850
12-15-2017, 01:17 PM
There is this exact frame listed on the "Steel is Real" webpage for sale at what I think is a steal of a price for one of these.
I've been looking for one of those ever since seeing them in an old Gita catalog. What size is for sale? Link?
jamesdak
12-15-2017, 01:41 PM
Here's the used one on:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/42851702426/permalink/10155969972102427/?sale_post_id=10155969972102427
These guys are still listing new ones:
http://www.bikyle.com/GiordanaFrm.asp
Of course if trying for new I'd hit up Norman at Gita to see what's still left in the warehouse.
merckx
12-15-2017, 03:09 PM
Here's the used one on:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/42851702426/permalink/10155969972102427/?sale_post_id=10155969972102427
These guys are still listing new ones:
http://www.bikyle.com/GiordanaFrm.asp
Of course if trying for new I'd hit up Norman at Gita to see what's still left in the warehouse.
It makes one wonder why all of the Giordana frames in Bikyle's stock have a plastic fork attached to them.
Btw, your machine is fabulous!
oliver1850
12-15-2017, 06:38 PM
Here's the used one on:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/42851702426/permalink/10155969972102427/?sale_post_id=10155969972102427
These guys are still listing new ones:
http://www.bikyle.com/GiordanaFrm.asp
Of course if trying for new I'd hit up Norman at Gita to see what's still left in the warehouse.
Actually prefer used. Don't use/understand how to use Facebook. Went to link but couldn't find listing. Thanks.
jamesdak
12-15-2017, 07:54 PM
Actually prefer used. Don't use/understand how to use Facebook. Went to link but couldn't find listing. Thanks.
I sent the guy a message and link to this thread.
bmeryman
12-17-2017, 03:41 PM
This has been an interesting read and prompted me to take a look at a Giordana frame at a shop local to me. It's labeled with Columbus SLX. I'm wondering when the SLX was used in the production timeline. Does anyone know of a good resource or contact I might use?
Disclaimer: I'm certainly curious, but honestly it's a good deal on a cool frame and I'll pick it up regardless.
Sorry for the slight thread drift.
merckx
12-17-2017, 03:49 PM
This has been an interesting read and prompted me to take a look at a Giordana frame at a shop local to me. It's labeled with Columbus SLX. I'm wondering when the SLX was used in the production timeline. Does anyone know of a good resource or contact I might use?
Disclaimer: I'm certainly curious, but honestly it's a good deal on a cool frame and I'll pick it up regardless.
Sorry for the slight thread drift.
IIRC, Columbus predated Excel. I recall the Excel frames were from mid 90's onward.
jamesdak
12-17-2017, 04:30 PM
This has been an interesting read and prompted me to take a look at a Giordana frame at a shop local to me. It's labeled with Columbus SLX. I'm wondering when the SLX was used in the production timeline. Does anyone know of a good resource or contact I might use?
Disclaimer: I'm certainly curious, but honestly it's a good deal on a cool frame and I'll pick it up regardless.
Sorry for the slight thread drift.
Well, my 1989 Antares is Columbus Cromor.
The 1991 Giordana Catalog I have shows them using Excell Podium, Columbus TSX, SLX, SL, and Cromor and then Oria ML 25.
The Polaris was the SLX frame for 1991.
Road models were Spica, Antares, Nuovo Antares, Polaris, Scorpius, Capella Strada, Mira.
Capella Pursuit, Capella Pista, and Capella Crono were the specialist frames.
Geometry chart:
http://www.pbase.com/jhuddle/image/165366180.jpg
bmeryman
12-17-2017, 05:18 PM
Wow! A wealth of information! I'm picking up the frame tomorrow. I'll do some more close looking then and snap a couple pictures.
Thanks!
Waldo
04-01-2019, 03:39 PM
This Giordana XL Strada is on the way. Looking forward to riding it.
paredown
04-01-2019, 06:06 PM
This Giordana XL Strada on the way. Looking forward to riding it.
Lovely! Was this another Gita survivor?
Waldo
04-01-2019, 06:36 PM
Yes!
jamesdak
04-01-2019, 07:40 PM
Looks awesome, how are you going to build it up?
Waldo
04-01-2019, 08:58 PM
Looks awesome, how are you going to build it up?
Campy 11.
jamesdak
04-01-2019, 09:44 PM
^ Sounds like a good plan. You're gonna love it.
jamesdak
04-01-2019, 09:49 PM
Since this has been revived let me add on another bike tubed by Excell for reference.
My 1995 ( I think) Team Gan Lemond. Billato built of course!
This is Excell GLx which I've seen other posts saying was renamed as Podium. I don't know if this is correct or not.
https://pbase.com/jhuddle/image/166790963.jpg
https://pbase.com/jhuddle/image/166790982.jpg
Waldo
04-01-2019, 10:56 PM
^ Sounds like a good plan. You're gonna love it.
Thank you. Very much looking forward to building and riding it. Will post photos when it’s done.
Waldo
04-01-2019, 10:57 PM
The LeMond looks fantastic.
Gummee
04-02-2019, 09:22 AM
Lovely! Was this another Gita survivor?
So a couple years back when I was working in yet another shop, I called Gita asking about their old steel frames...
I wanted one 'back when' and was wondering if they had any left in my size. Got 'the guy' on the phone and was shocked at how much they want for those NOS frames they've had laying around.
Turns out, they're popular again. Should have called several years earlier when they couldn't give them away.
Aaah well.
I'll wait some more.
1st up: finding anther PDM Concorde like the one I sold in a fit of needing rent $$, or a late 80s Paramount like the one I borrowed from a friend when said Concorde was at Hot Tubes getting the derailleur hanger replaced.
M
jamesdak
04-02-2019, 10:31 AM
As a point of reference. I paid $800 shipped from my XL-Super frame with fork. It was their top model. Came with all the needed hardware too, drop out adjusters, cable guide, etc. I see that as a steel for the quality it is.
As a point of comparison, the Xl Super made with Excell Podium and then it's slightly lower grade Eco tubed fork still weighed in at 5 ozs under the beautiful Paletti Columbus EL OS frame and fork I just got it. The Paletti is a 55cm frame while the Giordana is a larger 56cm frame. The Excell steel is some light stuff.
What I found shocking was the $2300 I was quoted a few months ago for one of the Lemond Washoe frames still lying around unsold. They aren't trying to get rid of those. For that kind of money I'd have Della Sante build me a custom job.
82Picchio
06-14-2019, 06:50 PM
After one ride, this Excell-tubed Giordana XL-Strada is a keeper. The ride is an interesting combination of very lively, yet stiffer than other similarly lively frames I've ridden, which I like. The fit is a work in progress.
jamesdak
06-14-2019, 07:50 PM
^ Very Nice!
oliver1850
06-14-2019, 09:22 PM
Finally landed one this spring. Pics are not very good.
https://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?p=2545501&highlight=giordana#post2545501
MilanoTom
06-19-2019, 10:52 AM
Excell Podium was nickel chromium. It was used for the original Masi 3V and according to an older book on metallurgy in bicycling, it was the same alloy that was used when Excell made tubing for Formula 1 frames in the 1960s. I remember reading an article in Winning in which the writer claimed to see Alberto Masi put a piece of Podium tubing in a vice, then closed the vice until the insides of the tube touched, and when he released the vice, it sprung back round.
jamesdak
06-19-2019, 01:17 PM
Excell Podium was nickel chromium. It was used for the original Masi 3V and according to an older book on metallurgy in bicycling, it was the same alloy that was used when Excell made tubing for Formula 1 frames in the 1960s. I remember reading an article in Winning in which the writer claimed to see Alberto Masi put a piece of Podium tubing in a vice, then closed the vice until the insides of the tube touched, and when he released the vice, it sprung back round.
Yep, I've heard that story mentioned before. I don't believe it at all but a cool story none the less.
On the flip side, I've seen lots of mention about how this alloy was more brittle than it's counterparts and prone to frames cracking. All I know is mine rides wonderfully and hasn't failed me yet.
MilanoTom
06-19-2019, 01:58 PM
Yep, I've heard that story mentioned before. I don't believe it at all but a cool story none the less.
On the flip side, I've seen lots of mention about how this alloy was more brittle than it's counterparts and prone to frames cracking. All I know is mine rides wonderfully and hasn't failed me yet.
A local shop used to import grey market 3V frames direct from Milan. Never heard of any issues with one.
oliver1850
06-19-2019, 04:51 PM
Friend who used to work at GITA told me that the Giordana forks were prone to cracking.
merckx
06-19-2019, 06:19 PM
Friend who used to work at GITA told me that the Giordana forks were prone to cracking.
I was the proud owner of a cracked Giordana fork. It failed just below the crown on the front of the blade. Fortunately I found the crack while cleaning the frame. Gita didn't have a replacement so I slid a Precisa into the headtube and it rode swell. I raced the bejesus out of that frame and loved every minute of it.
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