M3 will be in my dreams.....only

[Pete Serotta]

My 2006 M3 with ZCP suspension.....


During my more crazy days prior to my tumor removal (4 weeks ago) I ordered a new M3 with ZCP. Yes I like them and have had M3s for the past 15 years. (not the same one so I am still a kid mentally (a poorer one) for I lust of M3s also. (as well as Serottas) Other main car is a HONDA PILOT which is a wonderful all around bike/travel car.

As of now the new one is coming in and I currently have a 2006 with about 35k miles on it. Either the unknowns of future medical or the $$s of them have me thinking of "DO I REALLY WANT TO DO THIS?". I ordered it, so feel obligated, but based on the scarcity of the Model I think the dealer I have used over the 15 years will be able to sell it and I will only have them keep the deposit I provided. (which is fair)

Ken Robb, who is an expert in the area talked to me about it a few days ago. He makes logical and accurate sense BUT I am that 60 plus year old trapped in a 20 something year old brain.


Yep if I use his information, and the financial information of cost, the decision is easy. If I use my immaturity - the decision becomes not so easy I am up at this hour thinking.


Good news is that I got to the gym today for a workout (lighter that I did prior) and feel wonderful. Trying to get some strength and conditioning back before Chemo starts and I lose more of it. :crap: :crap:


THanks and I appreciate all the support. PETE

[firerescuefin]

Drive the Honda Pilot for a couple extra years = BIG SAVINGS

The gas you will save riding your new Ottrott instead of taking your Pilot out = BIG SAVINGS ;)

Driving the new M6 = BIG SMILE

Pete, I do not know what your financial situation is, and battling/kicking Cancer's ass is not a license for irresponsibility, but as Ferris Bueller says...

"It is so choice. If you have the means, I highly recommend picking one up."

We're not promised anything, especially tomorrow. I don't think that 2/10/20 years down the road you will be saying "Man I wish I had the money I spent on the 2011 M-6...I should have kept the 06"

[Pete Serotta]

You are living life and that is good. It is also on the "same track" as what my wife says.

Also I would never be irresponsible on debt....I do not like debt!!! But right now at 1.9% interest charge I would use their money and not mine,

I like helping young folks (luckily my 2 daughters are frugal) with financial planning and budget managing.

I am down on most banks for I think they and credit card companies take advantage of situations and fees on folks. I am still shocked at the amount of CC debt young folks have and the fees and interest rates that banks charge them. The fees they levy on them are quite ofter multiples of the interest rates on junk bonds.

[1centaur]

Don't want to thread drift, but as an aside the default rates on credit cards are much higher than on junk bonds too. The proof of fair pricing is in the profit margins on cards, and the fact that cards are competitive. Government investigations have repeatedly concluded high rates are fair after they are told the facts.

That said, one of the issues with card rates is that they are set mostly by the pool, not the specific credit risk, as they would be in junk bonds. The good credit risks subsidize the bad credit risks in those pools, which means that bad risks underpay and good risks overpay. It would be nice to give 8% rates to good credit risks, but then they'd have to give 70% rates to poor credit risks. Arguably, that's exactly what they should do to deny credit to poor risks, but government does not see it that way (and some of those poor risks would accept 70% rates and the attendant consequences anyway).

[titans]

Go for it Pete! Is your order the limited edition 'Frozen' color M3? Even if not, V8 M3s will be history. Chat rooms have all but indicated that the next generation M3 (2013 as a 2014 model) will be 6 cylinders with twin turbos generating 450hp or something like that. Driving these cars keeps the smile on our faces and keeps us young at heart. Is there a better remedy for your post surgical therapy? :) If you then develop E46 M3 withdrawal we can switch cars for a day or two :)

All the best!

Tommie

[Keith A]

...As of now the new one is coming in and I currently have a 2006 with about 35k miles on it...Just send me your leftovers :D

I really just happy to see you up and about, thinking and talking about life :banana:

[Pete Serotta]

I always learn from 1centaur. Thanks. PETE

Don't want to thread drift, but as an aside the default rates on credit cards are much higher than on junk bonds too. The proof of fair pricing is in the profit margins on cards, and the fact that cards are competitive. Government investigations have repeatedly concluded high rates are fair after they are told the facts.

That said, one of the issues with card rates is that they are set mostly by the pool, not the specific credit risk, as they would be in junk bonds. The good credit risks subsidize the bad credit risks in those pools, which means that bad risks underpay and good risks overpay. It would be nice to give 8% rates to good credit risks, but then they'd have to give 70% rates to poor credit risks. Arguably, that's exactly what they should do to deny credit to poor risks, but government does not see it that way (and some of those poor risks would accept 70% rates and the attendant consequences anyway).

[Johny]

Pete,

We continue to pray for you and your family. I hope to ride with you soon.

John

P.S. I never make enough money to face such a difficult decision. :)

[Ralph]

Before I retired about 12 years ago, I always was a big spender, and generally making more money than I could spend. I liked nice cars (liked you I love M3's, M5's, etc). In my work, it wasn't that tough to accumulate enough financial assets to retire relatively early at age 57 with, I thought at the time, enough money to last about two lifetimes.

I thought wrong. Shortly after I retired in 98, the market began this crazy roller coaster ride it still seems to be on. Or maybe the assets I was relying on were over valued at the time. My paid for house has lost 1/2 it's value also. At any rate....now I'm figuring I need to live conservatively so my assets will last this life time. My mother just passed away at age 93, going thru about $5000-$6000 per month in a retirement home. So after going thru all this, and watching how much money my Mom went thru for so many years.....there are no more M3's in my future....even though a financial planner might say I can afford one. I just don't think so anymore. Our family fleet now is a Mercury Montego, a Honda Accord, and a Honda Element. Just transportation vehicles plus my bike hauler.

My advice....take care of your health, and prepare for a little more conservative spending future. Now that I'm used to it, it doesn't bother me to spend less. Best to you in your recovery.

[alancw3]

i am very conservative, so if it were me i would seriously think about cancelling the order. if the car you ordered is in such great demand and if you are such a good customer of the local bmw dealer then i would except them to return your deposit also. pete, i am in no way being pessimistic, but let's face it, you don't know what the future offers for you and your family at this time. cars are cars and will always be available. err on the side of conservatism for now and if in the future you want that car get it. anyway glad to hear that you are up and about. take care and good luck with your recovery plans.

[Keith A]

Pete -- I'm with Alan on this one...makes sense to me...but I too am on the conservative side.

[dd74]

M3s are nice. But pricey. And if $$$ is your concern, I agree with the others about canceling the order. Maybe wait until one appears on the secondary market, or if you need new at that level, look into a 2011 Mustang GT with the new Coyote 5.0 engine. Roughly as much hp as the M3, track-tuned suspension, and about $30k out the door, fwik.

There are other alternatives too. A quick look at Road and Track or Car and Driver online will show you that.

[Ken Robb]

One of my comments to Pete was: It's more fun to drive a slow car fast than a fast car slow. I had more fun hot-lapping Road Atlanta in a 15 passenger Econoline van than driving the Blue Ridge Parkway in an M3. Pete said his cars have never and will never see a track day. No one can safely or sensibly use all of the capability of any of today's high-performance cars on public roads and I have to say I'm not too eager to push their limits on the track anymore either. They are faster than many real race cars of a few years ago and there's no way any stock street car will provide the safety equipment of a race car. The speeds are comparable meaning so are the impact forces.

My Mini Cooper S has something near 172hp and it's plenty for the street. 500+ hp in a family car is mostly for bragging rights or the track.

[palincss]

One of my comments to Pete was: It's more fun to drive a slow car fast than a fast car slow. I had more fun hot-lapping Road Atlanta in a 15 passenger Econoline van than driving the Blue Ridge Parkway in an M3.

I hear a Miata is plenty of fun to drive fast, too.

[Keith A]

I hear a Miata is plenty of fun to drive fast, too.Agreed. I have a friend that has one and it is indeed a fun little car to drive.

[davidlee]

Pete I like cars with 500 ponies!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YtxmcOhJ6Ro
Go to 4:40 in video for the "punch"
:)
D

[Ken Robb]

I hear a Miata is plenty of fun to drive fast, too.

yep it is, and one of the secrets to its long successful production is that it's also fun to drive slow. This is not an easy double to achieve.

[djg]

What's the question?

I love M3s too, although for years it was mostly tepid love from afar with just the occasional test drive -- just bought a 2006 M3 with 30k miles on it this spring as a new-to-me commemoration of my turning fiddy (which I didn't actually do until the end of July).

So . . . it's a great car and I reckon that yours, with 35k miles, is ticking like a really fast clock that sticks to the road pretty darn well in the twisties, and what's the question?

You know that the new ones are different cars, both skin deep and under the hood, and there are things to really like about that and maybe a few things to miss about the '06. Would it be fun to buy a new one? Heck yeah. Is it worth the scratch? Beats me -- your budget constraints and preferences and expectations and so forth. I could have paid cash for a new 2010 without dipping into the kids' college funds or risking the mortgage, but I'm not independently wealthy and I felt uncomfortable -- me, my own discomfort, borne of whatever the heck -- parting with that kind of money. I preferred to pay in the low 30s for a clean, one-owner 2006. I preferred it by a lot. (Plus, for a rag top . . . well, the new drop-top weighs a bunch and costs a ton . . . )

For me, it's serious money. But really, if I won an extra 3 million bucks in the lottery tomorrow, I do not think that I'd run out and buy an 80 thousand dollar car. Or a 150k car. I just don't. But that's me.

[palincss]

yep it is, and one of the secrets to its long successful production is that it's also fun to drive slow. This is not an easy double to achieve.

It's not easy to produce a car that becomes a classic on the first day of its introduction, but Mazda did it with the Miata.

[Ralph]

I have a friend with a 911 Turbo...who teaches driving on a road course. He says....if you don't want to spend the bucks on a 911 or M3, get a Miata. They are faster on a real tight course. I think he teaches in one.

I have another friend into cycling...who owns a mini van for his cycling. His other vehicle in a Miata, that always has the top down. You just can't beat them....if you don't have to haul anything.

[Pete Serotta]

I will come to my senses this week and with treatment starting probably next week - CARs will be a non-thing for a long period of time. (Probably 8 weeks or more)


One of the most fun cars I had was a year 2000 S2000.

Sold it 2 years ago for I could no longer get my wife to ride with me, Her HONDA ACCORD was totaled when a Girl in a Dodge Magnum ran a stop sign and hit her.

She has never ridden in a car that size since. This is why the MIATA, while lusting it will not see her in it. :crap:

[dd74]

As an alt. to a $60K performance car, this will be arriving shortly in the U.S.:
http://autoworld.files.wordpress.com/2008/09/fiat-500-abarth-essesse-official-img_4.jpg
If you like 'em small and able to beeyotch-slap a canyon road, plus get 30+ mpg., I'd wait around for this.

[sg8357]

It's not easy to produce a car that becomes a classic on the first day of its introduction, but Mazda did it with the Miata.

It was very easy, it is a Lotus Elan with the reliability of a Corolla.
It is the best British Roadster.
Now if we could convince Mazda to build a Blower Bentley.

[C5 Snowboarder]

Great car Pete - keep your order and take delivery of that wonderful car. Life should be lived without regrets.. and it sounds to me like when you are 66 or so you would regret not owning it. Take it and drive it when you can - it will be one of the positive things you think about when in chemo. Call it a medical expense.

I am a BMW lover too (X5 hauls the bikes)- when driving my Corvette I often see many M3s around here.. and think "if I only had room"

best of everything Pete.

[Pete Serotta]

Great car Pete - keep your order and take delivery of that wonderful car. Life should be lived without regrets.. and it sounds to me like when you are 66 or so you would regret not owning it. Take it and drive it when you can - it will be one of the positive things you think about when in chemo. Call it a medical expense.

I am a BMW lover too (X5 hauls the bikes)- when driving my Corvette I often see many M3s around here.. and think "if I only had room"

best of everything Pete.


A friend DAVE POWERS recently got the new X5 and he is smiling ear to ear!!!

[Smiley]

Get the car Pete, life's too short pal. Put a smile on your face, sell Sandy your old M3 :)

[rnhood]

If you have to second guess yourself on an expensive toy, then its probably best to bail. No hard feelings but, in my opinion a car like that its a waste of good money.

Having said that, we all like different things and we all spend our hard earned money in different ways. If you are a real auto aficionado then you should buy what you want and be happy, and we will be happy. But if there is doubt, my advice is to bail. There will always be ample opportunities ahead to do things, to buy things, many of which will benefit more than mostly yourself.

[palincss]

It was very easy, it is a Lotus Elan with the reliability of a Corolla.
It is the best British Roadster. Now if we could convince Mazda to build a Blower Bentley.

Well, exactly. But how many other examples can you come up with?

[avalonracing]

Pete,
Now that you are new and improved I figured that you would be a Mercedes C63 guy. ;)

[C5 Snowboarder]

Pete,
Now that you are new and improved I figured that you would be a Mercedes C63 guy. ;)

better get one now -- Mercedes is replacing that big 6.2 motor with a 5.5L -- probably keeping the weird nomenclature tho :crap:

[michael white]

It's not easy to produce a car that becomes a classic on the first day of its introduction, but Mazda did it with the Miata.

Sometimes I think about getting a Miata, but jeez, talk about impractical. Can't even put a little plastic kayak on it . . . might as well be a motorcycle.

[Ken Robb]

Pete,
Now that you are new and improved I figured that you would be a Mercedes C63 guy. ;)

He's not THAT old. :beer:

[54ny77]

screw the pricey car. with a finite amount of $ to play with, my vote is get a '94 buick and go bonkers with a di2 meivici w/crazy cool parts. :cool:

[thwart]

Sometimes I think about getting a Miata, but jeez, talk about impractical. Can't even put a little plastic kayak on it . . . might as well be a motorcycle.
Lovely car... miss my '94, but on beautiful days I'd really rather be on a bike...

Pete, you've made much tougher decisions. Either way, you win.

[michael white]

Lovely car... miss my '94, .

well I'll be a monkey's uncle. Maybe I should get one then.

hell yeah though about being on the bike.

wait. What does the front strap strap to?

[jghall]

Pete,
I'll echo the others, take care of yourself first. If the M3 works out, it was meant to be.

From someone who loves toys, I've owner Porsche's, BMW's, an AMG or two, etc, I have 90% the fun driving my four door Passat nowdays.

Maybe save some of the cash and get yourself a fun little car to go with the Pilot. - older 911, 928, s2000, ect.

Keep the faith!

Regards,
Jeff

[Zoomie80]

Pete--
Good luck and get better soon! Go with your heart and priorities (sometimes they conflict, but they ultimately coverge) on the M3 decision.

I've wanted an M3 since 1988 when I saw one at a BMW dealer in Seattle; I chose an '88 325is instead after applying practical logic, analyzing total cost of ownership, etc. As I look back, I should have bought one then.

Fast forward to 2007...my '88 325is is totaled as I spun out in snow/ice here in Northern VA; my left foot popped out of my shoe as I hit a concrete divider. That shoe was pinched between the quarter panel and clutch pedal...would have lost a foot at the ankle. Prior to that accident, I was in the market for a 1-2 year old M3 since my car was starting to spend more and more time in the shop. I could not find an M3 I liked; but found an 8-month old 2006 330ci ZHP with 6-speed manual at a great price that was originally bought at the same Seattle dealer, and had the same color combination as my old car. Karma? I bought the car. The ZHP doesn't quite have the grunt or acceleration as the M3...but sure is fun to drive in the twisties! I drive it year-round (now have dedicated winter tires/wheels).

I still want an M3...I've "built" one countless times at the BMWUSA website. Perhaps I can build one for real someday; but I have a mortgage and two young boys to put through college.

Good luck with your decision; whatever you decide will be the right one.

Cheers,
Zoomie

[michael white]

I would say a M3 is not really that important. People matter, and after that, but before cars, I would put biking, which is a simple way to enjoy being alive. Anything else, as far as I'm concerned, is gravy, which tastes great and isn't always a smart habit.

best,
mw

[Ken Robb]

[QUOTE=jghall]Pete,
I'll echo the others, take care of yourself first. If the M3 works out, it was meant to be.

From someone who loves toys, I've owner Porsche's, BMW's, an AMG or two, etc, I have 90% the fun driving my four door Passat nowdays.

Maybe save some of the cash and get yourself a fun little car to go with the Pilot. - older 911, 928, s2000, ect.

Keep the faith!

Regards,
Jeff[/QUOTE

I have driven lots of 911 Porsches from 1966-2008 and they were all fun. A Carrera from the early 1980's has to be a bargain to experience a real sportscar. Sure there are faster new sedans but the tactile and aural delights in the P-car make it more fun than its pure numbers would indicate. The other good news is they aren't depreciating any more so the cost of ownership isn't bad.

[fourflys]

I hear a Miata is plenty of fun to drive fast, too.

one of the best on the autocross course... I had a blast in mine

[Brian Smith]

Pete -
Never mind what I say about cars - most people think my choices there are "strange."
As a receiver of the Roundel for many years, I know the culture you're probably (stuck/reveling) in! We have 2...worth less than nothing...bmws.
You're right that your dealer will have no problem selling the M3 if you opt out.
For my money (and of course I have none and nobody would agree to spend it my way) I'd suggest that turning your existing M3 into a track car, with the support services of a good shop to create/maintain the car and experience for you, would probably cost about the same in the end as the new car, depreciate less or the same, and leave you with lasting skills applicable anywhere. All the while your 20-year-old brain is sliding through corners and wearing egg on face when you put it in the sand. Track guys are more into skill and lap times than model years, maybe with the exception of tires.

On second thought, you might meet more helpful/friendly people into the auto scene who would compete for your time with the bike people. It would positively remove time on bike from life to put time in car. Probably a bad idea, but fun to consider over a drink...

[tuxbailey]

Pete, good luck on the health front.

I drive an M3 also. I always loved that car and thought that I would never be able to afford it. But I got a "new to me" E36 4 door M3 8 years ago with 34K miles and as of today it has 145K miles. I drive it everyday in my commute and it puts a smile on my face every time I am behind the wheel. The car is perfect for my usage, I can even put my bike in the back seat.

My goal is to have it last until 250K, if not 300K miles.

[Ken Robb]

Pete, good luck on the health front.

I drive an M3 also. I always loved that car and thought that I would never be able to afford it. But I got a "new to me" E36 4 door M3 8 years ago with 34K miles and as of today it has 145K miles. I drive it everyday in my commute and it puts a smile on my face every time I am behind the wheel. The car is perfect for my usage, I can even put my bike in the back seat.

My goal is to have it last until 250K, if not 300K miles.

I'm guessing that you have already replaced the radiator, water pump, thermostat and housing. If not, find a good independent shop and do it ASAP. It doesn't cost THAT much and after 100,000 miles these are on borrowed time. I sold my 1998 M3 with 135,000 miles while it was still going strong.

[dd74]

I agree with the poster above who spoke about the Buick. Just get whatever as long as it fits a general lifestyle. Cars now are so much more like appliances than cars. They're needed to haul stuff, lurch along in traffic, take kids to school, and be pretty much as ambiguous as a coffeemaker. Plus, driving a sports car on the city streets, at least where I live, has become a futile effort. With my car, there are days I barely get out of 2nd gear -- and I have factory short gears to boot.

I've sometimes thought that if a person wants a real fun car, maybe they should look into a dedicated race car:

http://www.race-cars.com/carsales/other/1269903168/1269903168ld.jpg

Formula Fords similar to this can be bought for less than $10K and can run on pump fuel for an entire eight hours at the race track. The engines can be bought for a song, and this car will positively kick everyone's ass who brought their street/track-day debacle for some friendly laps. Just get a trailer, hitch, helmet and you're there.

Or, if you want more steel around you, a Spec Miata is another alternative. These are also very fast on a race track, and can be bought for less than $5K in places I've seen.

http://www.sracing.com/Projects/spec_miata_done.jpg

[johnnymossville]

+1 on all the Miatas.

Often thought if I had a longish commute I'd pick up a used Miata and have at it every single day on the way to work and back home again. :)

[dd74]

+1 on all the Miatas.

Often thought if I had a longish commute I'd pick up a used Miata and have at it every single day on the way to work and back home again. :)
+1. They'd work well as commuter cars. And a helluva lot more fun than a Prius or Smart car.

[tuxbailey]

I'm guessing that you have already replaced the radiator, water pump, thermostat and housing. If not, find a good independent shop and do it ASAP. It doesn't cost THAT much and after 100,000 miles these are on borrowed time. I sold my 1998 M3 with 135,000 miles while it was still going strong.

Thanks for the advice. I did the radiator related bits around 60K and the hoses and the water pumps, etc had been done twice. I will probably replace the radiator again before 200K. The cat back and the muffler was replaced once.

The rear shock mounts, and RTAB had been replaced as well. The suspension was overhauled with Koni SAs (the struts was a pain in the rear :( )

What else... I installed the X-Brace, a CAI and Sharked the engine.

Most importantly, I did all these as DIY with the help of some friends so I not only saved a bundle but also learned a lot. Kind of like learning how to wrench your own bike. It is also a direct byproduct of having a taste of Foie Gras on a chopped liver budget :D I also do my regular maintenance myself, including all the brake jobs.

The car is my daily commuter and I used to take it to the track for driving sessions. But ever since it got rear ended on a black ice incident 5 years ago it is reduced to a pure commuter. And I finally put some good all season rubber to handle the DC type storms, instead of pure summer tires in the past.