Fixie advice

[kgreene10]

I'm building up my first fixie with a 1980s frameset, but I have little idea about which parts to get -- especially the wheelset. Can someone give me a basic rundown of low-end, moderate, and high-end wheelsets with flip-flop hubs? If you want to throw in ideas about cranksets, that would be great too. Thanks.

[Louis]

For cranks you could look at Sugino. They make some pretty nice ones.

I would start here: Ben's Cycle (http://www.benscycle.net/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=188&zenid=8de88fb138d8a09115e95e8e94b2a9fc)

Sugino cranks are here (http://www.benscycle.net/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=188_193_655) (the XD is much more affordable than the 75)

[zray67]

I normally go to my LBS and have them build me a new set of wheels. Price is always a consideration for me so I let the guy tell me the cost of the rims, etc. The last set of wheels I had built used Velocity Dyad 700c. 32 spokes in the front and 36 spokes in the rear(SF has deep pot holes). I used Soma Somax front and rear track hubs and a Surly track cog 3/32 x 17t. The free wheel cog was a Shimano I think. The bike came with an excellent Suntour crank so I used that. Also, I did some research on spokes,I forget which ones I used but they are good ones, probably DT double butted spokes.
For me, it is not about which rims, hubs and spokes that are used but more about the expertise of the wheel maker.
As far as cranks are concerned, I have a collection of Shimano 600 and Ultegra 6500 cranks with appropiate bottom brackets. If the bottom bracket is a fit to the bike, I'd use it's corresponding crank. I buy my stuff off Ebay. Unless you are a bike messenger who is on his bike 12 hours a day, I doubt that your legs are strong enough for a panic stop or for maintaining control going down a steep hill so front and rear brakes are strongly recommended.
Shimano 600 brake levers are the most comfortable brake levers I know of.

[regularguy412]

+1 on the Sugino cranks. Very nicely finished and reasonably priced. I built up a set of fixie wheels with DT Swiss RR 1.2 rims, DT Revolution spokes 3x 32 hole, on IRO/Formula/Harris Cyclery (all basically the same) hubs. They built into really nice wheels -- sealed cartridge bearings means low, low maintenance. Threaded both sides for a fixed gear and a freewheel. Hubset was under $100, rims at the time approx $72 each,, can't remember what I paid for the spokes. You might have some luck scoring something lightly used on eBay or this forum's Classified section.

Mike in AR:beer:

[m.skeen]

Business Cycles is a good source as well:

http://businesscycles.com/trwheel.htm

[markie]

I am happy using old shimano square taper road cranks. Most of the time I'll move the inner ring to the outer position, buy some half length chainring bolts and call it good.

For wheels it is worth getting good hubs. If I am going cheap surly is my favourite. Want to spend more and phil wood is the way to go. I rarely see problems with these hubs. Finish them off with some regular road rims, Mavic open pros for instance and some double butted spokes.

Oh and I really like EAI cogs.

[11.4]

What's the point of your fixie? Are you commuting, bashing around, doing serious fixed gear winter training, or taking it on the track? Fixies are very purpose-specific.

If commuting and bashing it, strong alloy rims with plenty of spokes and don't scrimp on weight (Deep V's are good for this and cheap). Just get Formula hubs -- cheap and durable and you can replace the bearings with ones from Phil Wood if you're so inclined. Better than Surlys and a lot of the rest. You can get Formulas in both fixed/fixed and fixed/free so decide which way you want to go -- some people want a bailout single-speed freewheel, others just want a couple fixed-gear alternatives. Basic spokings -- 32 or 36 3-cross.

If more of a dedicated fixie trainer, go a bit lighter and maybe a few less spokes (Kinlin XR-300's are my favorite, followed by the DT RR585, either one with 28 spokes for almost anybody). The Formulas are still good but not elegant; Phil Woods are elegant and last a lifetime but cost a good bit more.

More than that, and you get into real track wheels with compromises on the road (e.g., in weather resistance).

Crankarms can be anything -- you can put together a basic fixie with used 7701 Octalink crankarms (available NOS on eBay for about $90 a pair) or go to track cranks. The messenger cranks like the Sugino RD are really pretty crappy when you look close -- you can do better with some NOS road crankarms (the 7701's, FSAs, whatever you can find) and workout out your chainline with the ring probably on the inside and perhaps a cyclocross guard on the outside just to make it look finished. In a track crankarm, the Sugino 75 is a classic, but so is a Dura Ace 7600 (square taper), the 7710 (Octalink), you name it. Think twice about buying used unless you know the seller or it looks awfully new -- messengers and other fixie trendies are notorious for not installing equipment right and deforming the splines on just about any track crankarm. It's a joke.

Check out the BikeForum Single Speed Fixed Gear forum for more than you ever wanted to know on this subject. It's definitely street-oriented, but it has countless threads on brake levers, brake choices, you name it. If you want to bash your bike, check out that forum. The more you want a serious winter fixed-gear trainer, ignore that forum and go more for a basic road bike with just a fixed gear drive train.

I'm not a big fan of the ENO hub. I prefer almost any basic track hub. If you have track stay ends or horizontal stay ends, you're in good shape. If you have vertical ends, I'd try to fool around with gearing so my chain tension just happens to work out decently. Messengers like crazy tight chain tension, but trackies go quite loose -- at least a half-chainlink or so worth -- so you may be fine with vertical dropouts and a fixed gear.

Brakes? My favorite is Ultegra 6700 hubs (not too expensive and very strong stoppers) with either basic traditional brake levers or Paul e-levers. I prefer the traditional levers because if you are having to slow down at high speed, you don't necessarily want your hands up at the stem.

There's a whole book to be written about this. Hope this helps to start with.

[kgreene10]

Thanks guys, this is some great advice that really gives me a good start. To answer one question, the idea is to use this fixie both for commuting (a total of about 3 miles each way to work) and winter training. I'm off to Mexico for a couple of weeks of work and will start building it when I get back. Thanks again.

[oldpotatoe]

I'm building up my first fixie with a 1980s frameset, but I have little idea about which parts to get -- especially the wheelset. Can someone give me a basic rundown of low-end, moderate, and high-end wheelsets with flip-flop hubs? If you want to throw in ideas about cranksets, that would be great too. Thanks.

Got a bike shop, a decent one that builds wheels? Get a set of AC(All City-Quality Bike Parts brand), have shop build wheels. Add some cranks, like Sugino Messenger cranks, a 107mm BB, maybe a front brake and bob's yer uncle..easy. If you want more expensive hubs, look at PhilWood, Suzue ProMax, others. More expensive rim, etc. The nice thing with custom wheels.

[jblande]

11.4, could you say a few words about why you don't like the ENO hub?

Many thanks, JBL

[markie]

Just get Formula hubs -- Better than Surlys



That is not my experience. I have seen more stripped formula hubs than surlys. YMMV

[11.4]

11.4, could you say a few words about why you don't like the ENO hub?

Many thanks, JBL

Nice idea but if you have to hassle with it on the road while fixing a flat, it can be annoying. In winter if you have road crap on the hub, I've seen it jam the little cam mechanism so you can't adjust chain tension. Then you're in a mess.

The basic hub, like all White hubs, is superb.

[Hard Fit]

u cud just use the crank that's on it and put on a smaller chain ring. since it's a commuter, i say put as little $ in as possible just in case it's stolen. also, i found it was a waste of money to get the freewheel as i just use the fixed gear.

[kgreene10]

Good point. I should have said that it will always be indoors. I'll just park it in the office. Plus, knowing myself, I'll probably end up racing on it pretty soon too. Cycling is an affliction.

[mister]

too bad there isn't a track close to austin.

any formula hubs that have been stripped have probably been from user error.
the cog had to be very tight before hte lockring is installed.
both me and my brother used formula hubs for a very long time with no problems.

kgreene i would set the bike up with road bars, get some formula hubs laced to a sturdy rim and ride about 68-71 gear inches.
fit and setup the bike just like a road bike.

[MarcusPless]

Just to add a bit on the ENO hub... I ride one on my street/commuter fixie. I bought the hub so I could easily move the wheel from bike to bike (ie, to a bike with vertical dropouts, for example). I really like the hub, but the truth is, it's a PITA on an older steel frame with horizontal dropouts if you're running a rear brake.

Since this setup is mostly a commuter and I have to deal with a lot of hills I run front and rear brakes. When I get a rear flat I have to use a tire lever to set the spacing between the brake and the tire so I can get the brake pads lined up with the brake surfaces. I was trying to think of something I could use for a consistent spacer that I would always have with me and the tire lever works. Sadly, it almost requires three hands.

ENO + horizontal dropouts = too much adjustment.

[11.4]

Just to add a bit on the ENO hub... I ride one on my street/commuter fixie. I bought the hub so I could easily move the wheel from bike to bike (ie, to a bike with vertical dropouts, for example). I really like the hub, but the truth is, it's a PITA on an older steel frame with horizontal dropouts if you're running a rear brake.

Since this setup is mostly a commuter and I have to deal with a lot of hills I run front and rear brakes. When I get a rear flat I have to use a tire lever to set the spacing between the brake and the tire so I can get the brake pads lined up with the brake surfaces. I was trying to think of something I could use for a consistent spacer that I would always have with me and the tire lever works. Sadly, it almost requires three hands.

ENO + horizontal dropouts = too much adjustment.

If you have horizontal dropouts, you don't really need the ENO. The dropouts themselves give you the room to tension your chain, which is the whole point of the ENO. Horizontal dropouts actually are rather nice for a basic fixie because they keep the brake blocks aligned with the braking surfaces, something that track stay ends don't do (unless you order them custom with an angled mounting).

[MarcusPless]

If you have horizontal dropouts, you don't really need the ENO. The dropouts themselves give you the room to tension your chain, which is the whole point of the ENO. Horizontal dropouts actually are rather nice for a basic fixie because they keep the brake blocks aligned with the braking surfaces, something that track stay ends don't do (unless you order them custom with an angled mounting).

Understood. I bought the ENO for maximum flexibility on frame choice. I've loaned it out several times to people with vertical dropouts so they could see if they were interested in riding fixed on the road without having to buy a wheel. If I knew I was going to only ride horizontal dropouts I would definitely not buy an ENO. That combination, along with a rear brake, turns out to be a PITA.

[11.4]

This thread already highlights the differences between a track bike and a road fixie (and even between a basic messenger-style street bike and a more serious optimized fixie). The messenger crowd have all kinds of urban myths about bikes (you have to use high chain tension, you have to use deep drops, lack of appreciation of what bike geometry does, etc.). By and large, they have their fetishes but I'd honestly suggest you ignore most of those. I get stopped regularly around town when I'm riding a fixie, and told by some messenger or student wannabe that my chain is too loose, or I should use different bars, or whatever. Meanwhile they have a single lever mounted almost on the drops of their steel Soma bars that are far too low for them, etc.

I wish I could say that track racers were more rigorous about their equipment choices and fit, but sadly all too often they suffer from different but analogous prejudices.

My few favorite peeves (in no particular order):

1. The popularity of Truvativ Omnium cranks. They have horrible bottom brackets, the chainrings are a pain to swap if you're actually racing with them, and the Q-factor is abominable. They are stiff but all decent track cranks are stiff these days.

2. B123 bars and Jaguar stems. Nitto makes a shallow and a deep drop track bend. These are the deep drop. It's de rigeur on the street to get the deep drops, and then pair them with a drop track stem (negative effective angle so it actually points downwards). This combination was popular on the track back in the 70's when Rider X might ride a 53.5 cm frame. Today the same rider would ride a 50 cm frame with more seatpost and a threadless stem that points slightly or significantly UP. That's only about 2-1/2 inches of drop that you're having to subject your back and neck to. It's no surprise these riders aren't stable on their bikes. Much less comfortable.

3. Nonstandard equipment on the track: If you're going to be racing, you're going to be borrowing a cog, a chainring, whatever. It just happens. All the time. And that's why almost all track cranks are 144 BCD and almost all track cogs are threaded (and most of those are ISO threaded). Every few weeks a rider needs a cog as everyone is starting warmup, but they need a Miche splined cog, or a Paul, or whatever. Or they simply need a tool that isn't an orthodox tool at the track (a national champion was hunting for a Torx wrench because his chainring bolts were Torx, and nobody among about 120 riders on the infield had Torx chainring bolts). Or the American Classic track hubs that use a 6 mm Allen in front but 8 mm in the rear -- do you know how hard it is to find an 8 mm Allen in a hurry on the track? Everybody uses 4, 5, and 6 mm Allen, 15 mm track nuts, and sometimes 6 mm Allen track nuts if you use Phil Woods. Add a chainwhip and a lockring tool (if you use lockrings) and that's about it. You can service your whole bike with those tools. Since you are ALWAYS changing gears and equipment on the track, it really pays to follow the standards

I'd have a very short list for both track and road-fixie applications:

Cranks:
Dura Ace 7710 with the 7710 bottom bracket (which is the same as the old Ultegra Octalink with a stainless cup)
Sugino 75 crankarms, though the Sugino or Hatta bottom brackets to match will need more servicing if they ever get wet
Campagnolo Record track crankset (if you have to be traditional, but it isn't the stiffest, and the chainrings are not the best and overpriced -- at least, ahem, they use the 144 BCD standard like good boys should)

Chainrings:
Sugino Zen are pretty much the nicest these days.
Closely followed by Dura Ace 7710.
Closely followed by Sugino 75's.
FSA aren't bad but not in the same league.
Truvativ ONLY makes a 48 tooth ring for their Omnium, so you are obliged to get other brands of rings (and then have to deal with nonstandard Truvativ dimensions and their funky chainring bolts and rear half-bolts that don't stay in place).
Keep an eye out for Superbe Pro rings, but they are cultish and too pricey.

Cogs:
EAI or Dura Ace.
No need to get the gold EAI unless you are wearing rainbow stripes (legitimately).
Dura Ace are the big deal, fit nearly all hubs really well, and last well.

Chains:
Practically any chain works well in track. This isn't high tech. You'll see World Cup track racers from national teams on cheap BMX chains. The Izumi V is superb and will last you forever at $70, but $15 chains will last as well. And you can get the latter in neat colors, so what the heck?

Stems:
Assuming threadless, there's only one -- Thomson X4 (or Thomson Elite if you need 25.4 mm stem clamp diameter). Everything else is flexible or has only two bolts or just isn't durable enough for track.

Bars:
Buy alloy and buy Nitto. The price difference isn't significant, they can be resold at a decent price, and they actually fit the stems. Steel bars are guaranteed to dent your top tube if they whip around just as you're carrying the bike from the car -- with alloy you at least have a chance. Nitto alloy bars are VERY stiff and VERY durable. Most stems will handle Nitto alloys (my favorite stem, the Thomson Elite mountain stem, has a wide camp that doesn't fit the narrow ferrule on the Nitto steel bars properly). A Thomson stem with its wide clamp makes for a net stiffer setup than a narrower stem clamp with a steel bar.

Hubs:
Inexpensive: Formula or the various companies like Iro that private label Formula hubs.
Moderately expensive: Dura Ace 7600 high flange hubs. Back again after a hiatus and if you watch for deals you can usually get them for about $200/pair. Such a steal.
Expensive: Phil Wood. The best for waterproofness, and on the track you can get custom drillings, etc. But you can't actually beat the 7600's. I just wouldn't ride 7600's through the rain all winter.

All the rest is about whatever you like to use.

Oh, and real track bars on the track or you develop bad postural habits in starts and jumps. Road bars are good for madisons and some massed start stuff. Just don't feel you have to limit yourself -- have a stem with some aero bars, a stem with road bars, a stem with track drops, and swap them out as needed. That's what track is like -- you are always changing equipment from a collection in your duffel.

Enough?