View Full Version : Clean New Chain - Do you or don't you?
Sheldon said we shouldn't, but curious who relies upon that very aromatic factory lube?
Factory Lube
New chains come pre-lubricated with a grease-type lubricant which has been installed at the factory. This is an excellent lubricant, and has been made to permeate all of the internal interstices in the chain.
This factory lube is superior to any lube that you can apply after the fact.
Some people make the bad mistake of deliberately removing this superior lubricant. Don't do this!
The factory lubricant all by itself is usually good for several hundred miles of service if the bike is not ridden in wet or dusty conditions. It is best not to apply any sort of lube to a new chain until it is clearly needed, because any wet lube you can apply will dilute the factory lube.
Chief
08-05-2010, 04:40 PM
First thing I do with a new chain is soak it in mineral spirits to remove the factory "lube", wash it with a detergent and lube with Dumonde thereafter. With this regiment, I typically run my chain 6500 miles before replacing it.
jlwdm
08-05-2010, 05:08 PM
Do not clean a new chain!
Jeff
Ralph
08-05-2010, 05:14 PM
Sheldon said we shouldn't, but curious who relies upon that very aromatic factory lube?
Factory Lube
New chains come pre-lubricated with a grease-type lubricant which has been installed at the factory. This is an excellent lubricant, and has been made to permeate all of the internal interstices in the chain.
This factory lube is superior to any lube that you can apply after the fact.
Some people make the bad mistake of deliberately removing this superior lubricant. Don't do this!
The factory lubricant all by itself is usually good for several hundred miles of service if the bike is not ridden in wet or dusty conditions. It is best not to apply any sort of lube to a new chain until it is clearly needed, because any wet lube you can apply will dilute the factory lube.
Basically agree.
John M
08-05-2010, 05:31 PM
For a new chain, I clean the cassette and chainrings, install chain and ride. No removal of factory lube.
I also never remove the factory lube. Clean the cassette & derailleurs, install the chain and enjoy a completely quiet drivetrain.
Louis
08-05-2010, 06:13 PM
We discussed this a while back. The thread. (http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=47444)
Based on that discussion I decided to not clean and re-lube a new chain. Just ride until it needs lube, and I then apply Pro Link.
alexstar
08-05-2010, 06:18 PM
I don't clean a new chain - just ride it until it needs to be re-lubed. I never apply any cleaners to my chains - just fresh lube and wipe clean with a rag, repeat if necessary.
Ahneida Ride
08-05-2010, 06:38 PM
My LBS guru told me that the gook on the chain is not lube, but
rust protectant ...
So he removes it and replaces with fresh lube.
dvs cycles
08-05-2010, 06:45 PM
I allways soak mine in what I clean all my chains with, Kerosene.
Tried Mineral Spirits but it seemed to leave the chain too dry where the Kerosene leaves a little residue to go along with my ProLink lube.
Everyone has their own JuJu with chains and there is no real wrong way as long as you feel good about your method. :beer:
Peter B
08-05-2010, 08:07 PM
I used to do the kerosene soak on new chains, then Prolink. But soaking the chain removes the factory lube/rust protection down to the pin level. That said, leaving it on tends to collect road dust and grime on the surface.
Last few times I simply wiped the new one down well with a soft rag to get most of the sticky stuff off the surface, then used Prolink. I've had good results with that method.
Louis
08-05-2010, 08:28 PM
My LBS guru told me that the gook on the chain is not lube
In my experience this is not correct.
I conclude this because running a new chain with the factory product on does not cause the links to quickly wear or become noisy, which they would presumably do if there was not a lubricant present. Having said that, I did not study much tribology.
false_Aest
08-05-2010, 09:15 PM
I warm my chain up in the microwave and then drip that wonderful grease into a pan and make eggs.
Then I melt some hormone-free-range butter (how's that for Before and After) and dip the chain in that.
If it doesn't soak all of it up I put it on toast and put the toast in my chamois.
</thread>
Charles M
08-05-2010, 09:58 PM
My LBS guru told me that the gook on the chain is not lube, but rust protectant ... .
Yep...
If you were to ask a chain maker or two you would get that answer.
It is a greas but It's not meant as good wear reduction. Generally the wrong formula and not only does nothing to help movement but reduces it making the chain work harder through the drive...
Clean and lube your new chain.
oldpotatoe
08-06-2010, 07:51 AM
Sheldon said we shouldn't, but curious who relies upon that very aromatic factory lube?
Factory Lube
New chains come pre-lubricated with a grease-type lubricant which has been installed at the factory. This is an excellent lubricant, and has been made to permeate all of the internal interstices in the chain.
This factory lube is superior to any lube that you can apply after the fact.
Some people make the bad mistake of deliberately removing this superior lubricant. Don't do this!
The factory lubricant all by itself is usually good for several hundred miles of service if the bike is not ridden in wet or dusty conditions. It is best not to apply any sort of lube to a new chain until it is clearly needed, because any wet lube you can apply will dilute the factory lube.
Most of the goop that comes on chains is more of a rust inhibitor than lube. Chains come to the US to distributors in bulk via shipping(as in boats). I clean 'em.
Charles M
08-06-2010, 08:49 AM
Wiki search Cosmoline... (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cosmoline)
That's still basically what is applied to chains and it's not a lube. Kinda like using grease instead of oil inside your engine... They're both just lubes right?
Ask a chain maker, or save yourself the trouble of them laughing at you and just clean and lube new chains...
SRAM is the only brand that actually claims their grease (Gleitmo) to be a lube.
While it hurts nothing to leave the grease on, it attracts dirt and makes a mess of the chain as it oozes out over the first few rides. I've done it both ways, but I don't really like dealing with the mess after the chain is on the bike, so I most often clean mine in mineral spirits, prior to installation.
JD Smith
08-06-2010, 11:55 AM
Wiki search Cosmoline... (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cosmoline)
That's still basically what is applied to chains and it's not a lube. Kinda like using grease instead of oil inside your engine... They're both just lubes right?
Ask a chain maker, or save yourself the trouble of them laughing at you and just clean and lube new chains...
So is it what is applied to chains, or is it "basically" what is applied to chains?
Which chain manufacturers have you spoken with?
Just how much "harder" is your chain working with the factory applied stuff?"
In your conversations with the chain makers, did you ask them why they haven't provided suggestions to clean their new chain with the instructions?
How do you define a "lube"?
chuckred
08-06-2010, 12:49 PM
Wiki search Cosmoline... (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cosmoline)
Ask a chain maker, or save yourself the trouble of them laughing at you and just clean and lube new chains...
This debate keeps coming up. I can't understand any reason it would make sense for the chainmakers to coat a chain with something that wouldn't make their chain perform better. Why risk leaving chain performance up to the whims of consumers who do everything from soaking them in gasoline to putting them on right out of the package?
I think it would be a great article if someone did actually ask each major chain manufacturer - what is on their chains and what should be done with it?
I don't think they'd laugh... otherwise, their instructions that came with the chains would tell you what to do with it before installing. At least it would seem to make sense - not that that means anything.
Louis
08-06-2010, 01:02 PM
I can't understand any reason it would make sense for the chainmakers to coat a chain with something that wouldn't make their chain perform better. Why risk leaving chain performance up to the whims of consumers who do everything from soaking them in gasoline to putting them on right out of the package?
Agreed.
If right out of the box there was a decent chance that folks would be doing terrible damage to a chain just by using it as is, then surely that chain & manufacturer would soon have a reputation for bad chains that wear out very quickly. As far as I know neither Shimano, nor Campy (or SRAM or any one else for that matter) have that reputation.
Tempest in a teapot. (so what's new)
Louis
Kevan
08-06-2010, 01:15 PM
particularly in cold weather the lube impedes shifting performance.
I don't go nutz removing it, but using Boeshield typically cuts it and reduces the heavier stuff's drag. Bit by bit, it's gone and the new lube steps in place.
I no longer go nutz breaking and cleaning chains. Maybe do it once or twice in its life. Simply isn't worth it.
Charles M
08-06-2010, 01:18 PM
Sorry if folks have their feelings hurt...
Chain companies coat their chains with the the least expensive product that lasts until the product is properly used. Responsible and profitable.
Louis
08-06-2010, 01:21 PM
until the product is properly used
Perhaps we need to ask them exactly what this means.
"I can't understand any reason it would make sense for the chainmakers to coat a chain with something that wouldn't make their chain perform better. Why risk leaving chain performance up to the whims of consumers who do everything from soaking them in gasoline to putting them on right out of the package?"
The manufacturers know that their product might sit on the shelves for years before being used so they choose protection over lubrication....... or they like screwing with those of us who served in the military and remember what a pain in the a** it was to clean the crap off of newly issued weapons.
Charles M
08-06-2010, 01:30 PM
:D I didnt make the comment to hurt your feelings...
I made it because I've asked KMC, YABAN. D.I.D., TSUBAKI, Wipperman and a few others. I also do proto stuff with a couple (and work with moto chains as well)...
If you think I have some sort of agenda, you're wrong....
Feel free to go out and get what ever info you require so that you regain what ever it is you feel you've lost... Note consumers may get a more politically safe answer from chain companies.
It's pretty simple to note that new chain coating is thicker, heavier, more sticky and doesn't let your chain move as freely. common sense might come in to play at some point...
For those that think I have any sort of relative product knowledge, clean you chain before you use it... You'll be a fraction of slightly better off in most cases than if you ran it for a short time and then did the exact same thing... :D
PaulE
08-06-2010, 02:20 PM
I always thought the stuff the manufacturers put on new chains was Cosmoline or some other rust protectant and cleaned it off my new chains before installing. A bike shop owner and former pro mechanic I know recently told me that I shouldn't clean a new Shimano chain before using it because the stuff they put on their new chains is a lubricant. I'm going to keep cleaning new chains before I install them. What I don't understand is why Shimano doesn't just spell it out in the instruction sheet that comes with every new chain. They could even explain both options if there are in fact 2 acceptable options.
John M
08-06-2010, 03:16 PM
You'll be a fraction of slightly better off in most cases than if you ran it for a short time and then did the exact same thing...
This fraction is small enough that I don't bother to clean it before installing. Riding in Seattle means that I wipedown, relube with Prolink and relube again a few times a week from Oct to May, so the factory coating (lube or non-lube) is gone pretty quickly either way.
ahhhhhhh, nothing like experience to keep life simple.
I agree with Zinn but would include Campy and Sram chains.
http://velonews.competitor.com/2008/03/technical-faq/foot-pain-cleaning-that-new-chain-and-some-follow-up_73002
Steve in SLO
08-06-2010, 05:15 PM
I just got off the phone with Campagnolo USA. 760-931-0106. I was told their chains are packed in grease, not anti-corrosives per se, although a grease would meet that need as well in factory packaging.
I guess I will continue to leave mine on and slowly work it out as I apply my homebrew lube.
firerescuefin
08-06-2010, 06:42 PM
Did you ever hear about the guy who died when his chain catastrophically failed because he wiped down the chain/ soaked it in diesel/ treated it with Cat urine/ doused it in Unicorn tears, put his normal lube on before the first ride.
Did you ever hear about the guy who died when his chain catastrophically failed because he didn't put his normal lub/etc. on before the first ride.
Me neither.
I'll take Pez's word for it.
From Shimano Customer Service:
"The coating on the chain is not a lubricant. That being said you could lube the chain lightly and then wipe off the excess with a rag. This will sufficiently lube the exterior of the chain and remove the preservative coating. Do not soak or submerge the chain in solvent or degreaser as that will remove the injected lubricant on the pins and greatly reduce the life of the chain."
It's interesting that this is precisely what so many of us do - soak the chain in solvent or degreaser. Even those on the bike plastic chain cleaners soak the chain in solvent and their use is pervasive.
Bob Loblaw
08-15-2010, 08:27 PM
I don't know what is worse, that this thread exists, that I read some of it, or that I am posting to it.
I wouldn't call that a post.
MarcusPless
08-15-2010, 11:56 PM
Ride a new chain until it starts making noise, then lube with unicorn tears. Covers all the bases.
Real life -- ride new chain 'til it starts making noise, then lube. I'm probably not making this problem hard enough.
firerescuefin
08-16-2010, 12:12 AM
I cannot wait until I get to the point in life where that is the last question I have to answer.
Kids are good....check
Wife's happy....check
Retired with sufficient income...check
Healthy.......check
Get to ride a lot....check
What about the coating on new chains...what do I do about that, do I wipe it down, do I leave it. Do I not wipe it down, leave it for a ride, then lube it, then wipe it down ????
Oh Sh**!!.......Serotta Forum...code red...I repeat code red.
From Shimano Customer Service:
"The coating on the chain is not a lubricant. That being said you could lube the chain lightly and then wipe off the excess with a rag. This will sufficiently lube the exterior of the chain and remove the preservative coating. Do not soak or submerge the chain in solvent or degreaser as that will remove the injected lubricant on the pins and greatly reduce the life of the chain."
It's interesting that this is precisely what so many of us do - soak the chain in solvent or degreaser. Even those on the bike plastic chain cleaners soak the chain in solvent and their use is pervasive.
Injected lubricant? I watched a video on the manufacture of a Campy chain. The chain is dipped into a hot tank of greasy stuff. The heat thins the greasy coating to the consistency of a light oil. The chain is wiped off and that's it. The stuff on the inside is the same as what's on the outside.
Bob Loblaw
08-16-2010, 09:32 AM
I wouldn't call that a post.
Touche'
If your chain is whisper quiet, leave it alone.
If it's noisy, clean and lubricate it.
If it's still noisy, replace it.
If it's time to replace your rear tire, replace the chain too. Chains are cheap. Replace the chain every 2k miles and you will almost never have to replace the chainrings or cassette. Do not imagine that your choice of lubricant or cleaner bears significantly on the life of the chain, as long as you DO clean and lube it.
BL
Louis
08-16-2010, 11:55 AM
So, based on what I see here I conclude that the simplest, most logical thing to do with a new Shimano chain is the following:
1) Remove chain from package and do a quick wipe down.
2) Install chain on bike (choosing correct length is a different thread).
3) Perform another, more thorough wipe down.
4) Lube chain with product of your choice (in my case ProLink) and wipe down.
5) Ride, and enjoy that new-chain performance.
6) If you feel like it, re-lube at end of ride.
Actually, your lube can make a substantial difference. Use a light oil with no EP additives and the chain will elongate much faster. Just about any houshold spray lube falls into this category. The product may have as much oil in it as my 4/1 home brew, but not work nearly as well. I found this out with a real world test. I honestly expected the light oil to work just fine, but it did not.
AngryScientist
08-16-2010, 03:03 PM
i clean new chains simply because the factory lube is so sticky that it picks up a ton of dust dirt and abrasive debris. only takes a minute or two to do, and it think its worth the effort.
palincss
08-16-2010, 03:06 PM
Wiki search Cosmoline... (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cosmoline)
That's still basically what is applied to chains and it's not a lube. Kinda like using grease instead of oil inside your engine... They're both just lubes right?
SRAM chains do not come covered with Cosmoline.
Charles M
08-16-2010, 03:29 PM
:D I didnt make the comment to hurt your feelings...
I made it because I've asked KMC, YABAN. D.I.D., TSUBAKI, Wipperman and a few others. I also do proto stuff with a couple (and work with moto chains as well)...
If you think I have some sort of agenda, you're wrong....
Feel free to go out and get what ever info you require so that you regain what ever it is you feel you've lost... Note consumers may get a more politically safe answer from chain companies.
It's pretty simple to note that new chain coating is thicker, heavier, more sticky and doesn't let your chain move as freely. common sense might come in to play at some point...
For those that think I have any sort of relative product knowledge, clean you chain before you use it... You'll be a fraction of slightly better off in most cases than if you ran it for a short time and then did the exact same thing... :D
;)
Seramount
08-16-2010, 04:38 PM
soaking chains in solvent is a really poor idea.
the best tools for cleaning chains are a rag and a toothbrush.
but, y'all do whatever makes your spoke nipples hard.
Soaking a chain in solvent won't hurt a thing. Any lube that's removed is easily replaced. The clearances between the parts are large and nearly any oil will flow quickly inside the roller and onto the pin.
My regular lube is 3-4 parts solvent (naptha).
crossjunkee
08-16-2010, 08:17 PM
I got about 20 miles on my Campy 11 speed chain, then it started rattling over bumps. I wiped it clean and applied Pro Gold, not a problem since.
Ralph
08-16-2010, 08:42 PM
After I clean a chain, I usually just apply 40 wt motor oil, then wipe off excess. Am looking for something better.
rugbysecondrow
08-16-2010, 08:49 PM
This thread seems to be an example of something simple being made REALLY complicated...four pages seems pretty ridiculous.
Louis
08-16-2010, 08:54 PM
This thread seems to be an example of something simple being made REALLY complicated...four pages seems pretty ridiculous.
You mean you don't remove the new-chain gunk one link at a time using Q-tips? ;)
r_mutt
08-16-2010, 11:00 PM
what i find most amazing is that after 4 pages, there is still not a definitive answer. everyone's in disagreement!
firerescuefin
08-16-2010, 11:04 PM
I found a similar problem...now we just need to ask "Mr. Owl"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K2xMGI-QpZw
You mean you don't remove the new-chain gunk one link at a time using Q-tips? ;)
If you're not using Q-tips and pipe cleaners, you're doing it mono-buttocked (http://www.sheldonbrown.com/chainclean.html).
brenick
08-17-2010, 02:08 PM
I just bought a new Wipperman chain and the instructions tell you not to clean it or relube before you use it. Guess it depends on whose chain you are putting on.
Louis
08-17-2010, 02:08 PM
If you're not using Q-tips and pipe cleaners, you're doing it mono-buttocked (http://www.sheldonbrown.com/chainclean.html).
This is a cost-cutting move on the part of the manufacturers, who choose a lubricant that is a compromise between an optimal roller lube and an optimal pin lube.
My secret's out. I've been using one type of lube on the rollers and another on the pins for years. Gives you much better results than the same type on both.
toaster
08-17-2010, 05:34 PM
A dry, clean chain with no lubrication is still 99.9% efficient, or so I've heard.
Bob Ross
08-18-2010, 12:46 PM
Guess it depends on whose chain you are putting on.
...or pulling.
firerescuefin
08-18-2010, 12:51 PM
I'm voting for sticky status on this subject. There is clearly more to explore.
I'm going to wipe down my next chain with a combo of gulf sea water and BP crude. I am hopeful of the results. By exposing the chain to both salt water and crude at the same time I will be lubing the chain while conditioning it to the elements....kind of like a smart chain.
My take from this thread is that nobody (including the manufacturers) knows exactly what is on the chains when they leave the factory.... :fight:
I do know that my Pro Gold / ATB / Rock n Roll / Dumond Tech is pretty good chain lube....
Therefore, I will clean off the unknown, and apply the known...
Case closed.
:beer: ;)
rice rocket
08-18-2010, 02:03 PM
Why clean it off before applying?
Have both! :cool:
Louis
08-18-2010, 02:06 PM
I will clean off the unknown
The question IMO is how thoroughly this needs to be done.
1) Wiping it off?
2) Using the usual chain cleaning degreaser and shaking in an old soda bottle?
3) Automotive parts cleaner?
4) MEK?
I vote for #1
ahhhhhhh, nothing like experience to keep life simple.
:cool:
firerescuefin
08-18-2010, 02:20 PM
Therefore, I will clean off the unknown, and apply the known...
Case closed.
:beer: ;)
No the case is absolutely not closed but is as open as ever. I will not let you sweep this under the rug.:no:
I had a friend whose 3rd cousin twice removed dated a guy that not only was the primary test subject for developing the formula for DZ nuts (actual product), but also was "THE" wrench for the bikes that Lance uses for his guests in Aspen. He said Lance will not allow a new chain to be put into service without being soaked in FRS -(Acai flavor) and wiped down with microfiber cloth (not manufacturer specific). Robin Williams said that the reduced friction in the chain was the most euphoric feeling he had experienced since dropping acid on the set of Mork and Mindy.
I'm not sayin...I'm just sayin
I'm likin' this thread mor' & more!
:p
rugbysecondrow
08-18-2010, 03:33 PM
Well Normy, it's a little known fact that smartest animal is a pig. Scientists say if pigs had thumbs and a language, they could be trained to do simple manual labor like chain cleaning and lubrication They give you 20-30 years of loyal chain service and then at their retirement dinner you can eat them.
firerescuefin
08-18-2010, 08:04 PM
Rugby, would you recommend using the lard from the pig you were eating to lube the new chains or would that be "poor form"? You might have labor problems if the secret got out.
I want to see at least 10 pages regarding this subject, so that no stone may be unturned. :argue:
Louis
08-18-2010, 09:56 PM
I want to see at least 10 pages regarding this subject, so that no stone may be unturned. :argue:
Well, we've been talking about new chains. What about old ones? What do you do with those? When replacing the old one is useful to measure how long the new one ought to be (and it gives you a pretty graphic demonstration of chain elongation) but once you've done that, what interesting things could one do with it? I've seen them used for jewelry and art.
Any other good ideas?
dave thompson
08-18-2010, 10:18 PM
Well, we've been talking about new chains. What about old ones? What do you do with those? When replacing the old one is useful to measure how long the new one ought to be (and it gives you a pretty graphic demonstration of chain elongation) but once you've done that, what interesting things could one do with it? I've seen them used for jewelry and art.
Any other good ideas?
Hang the pig at his retirement dinner?
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