Here we go!!!

[norcalbiker]

Who could it be! Ex-teammate that is. I sure hope not Landis.

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/post/Ex-teammate-says-Lance-Armstrong-encouraged-drug?urn=top-260510


According to a former teammate, Lance Armstrong was aware of and encouraging a systematic doping program involving his former United States Postal cycling team.

Federal investigators recently stepped up a criminal investigation of the seven-time Tour de France champion and have received detailed claims from cyclists and former Armstrong associates backing up the story of disgraced cyclist Floyd Landis, who previously accused Armstrong of using performance-enhancing drugs.

The New York Times reported Wednesday that a former Armstrong teammate spoke with investigators about the "widespread cheating" that went on within the team, all of which happened with Armstrong's full knowledge. The report makes no mention of drug use by Armstrong.

Food and Drug Administration investigators have been interviewing those close to Armstrong in an attempt to determine if he and his teammates defrauded sponsors by cheating. Some have already spoken with investigators and others are expected to testify in front of a grand jury within the next week. A 10-year statute of limitations may soon expire in the case, a fact which reportedly led to the increased efforts of investigators in recent months.


The lead investigator in the case is Jeff Novitzky, who headed up the FDA's probe of Barry Bonds and BALCO. Insiders say Novitzky isn't as concerned about whether Armstrong cheated at cycling but whether he broke laws (tax evastion, fraud, importing drugs) in doing so. Other athletes investigated by Novitzky have faced the most legal trouble for lying to grand juries and obstruction of justice.


If it's determined Armstrong was doping, he could have his Tour de France titles stripped. The bigger stake, however, is his legacy. He's known worldwide as the man who defeated cancer and then become the most dominant athlete his sport had ever seen. Based on his story, Armstrong was able to raise millions for cancer research. He's perhaps the most famous survivor and fundraiser the disease has ever seen. Should these drug-use allegations prove true, the ramifications could be much larger than having to return a few trophies.

[OtayBW]

...If it's determined Armstrong was doping, he could have his Tour de France titles stripped. The bigger stake, however, is his legacy. He's known worldwide as the man who defeated cancer and then become the most dominant athlete his sport had ever seen. Based on his story, Armstrong was able to raise millions for cancer research. He's perhaps the most famous survivor and fundraiser the disease has ever seen. Should these drug-use allegations prove true, the ramifications could be much larger than having to return a few trophies....
Oopa!

[goonster]

The Times reported it's an ex-teammate who has never failed a test, so it's not Landis, Hamilton, Heras, et al.

[JMerring]

What if it's Levi? Could explain the way he was dissed by RS in the Tour and now for Utah.

[firerescuefin]

Somewhere in compound deep inside of Austin, Guns are being loaded, children are being segregated, people are opening their leather bound "It's Not About the Bike" (the old testament).....and Obama is calling Janet Reno and the ATF for advice.

[norcalbiker]

Let's all eliminate one teammate at a time that we think it's not going to sing. I'll start with "Hincapie" I still think he is loyal to Lance even if he knows.

[norcalbiker]

The Times reported it's an ex-teammate who has never failed a test, so it's not Landis, Hamilton, Heras, et al.


I know, I was being sarcastic.

[norcalbiker]

What if it's Levi? Could explain the way he was dissed by RS in the Tour and now for Utah.

But Levi was not part of US Postal Team, was he? I can't recall.

[Charles M]

YES...

aFTER sATURN

[firerescuefin]

Ok, now that I have got my silliness put aside.

Being close to Boulder, riding for a local team centered there, and Boulder filled with so many that are inside the pro peleton or have been inside the pro peleton, you get to meet, work with, ride with, and share coffee with those that have raced or worked with or beside Lance. The universal answer have received is....intense, A-hole, has NO use for those that do not buy into his agenda 1000% (the traits of a lot of succesfull people).....My only point is that there is no shortage of people that do not like him. If he gets through this, I'll drink the Koolaid, because when you offer immunity, and people's lives (professionally) are at stake if they end up on the wrong side of the fence....if it's there, it will come out.

[davidlee]

It's probably Andreu
d

[JMerring]

But Levi was not part of US Postal Team, was he? I can't recall.

'00 and '01

[Chris]

If I'm George I'm remembering how close I was to that yellow jersey last year...

[Climb01742]

levi has his own issues with former gerolsteiner DS:

http://velonews.competitor.com/2010/08/news/former-gerolsteiner-manager-levels-doping-charge-against-leipheimer_133494

[firerescuefin]

See thread below. Cyclingnews broke it yesterday. I don't know what's going on at Velonews, but cyclingnews runs circles around them. They also seem to be less politically and agenda driven.

How is it that I get updated local race results from an Australian based site and can't get it on Velonews...and I live outside of Boulder.

http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=76916

[Steve K]

these guys are getting up off the ground: http://303cycling.com/

[firerescuefin]

Thanks Steve!

[BumbleBeeDave]

See thread below. Cyclingnews broke it yesterday. I don't know what's going on at Velonews, but cyclingnews runs circles around them. They also seem to be less politically and agenda driven.

How is it that I get updated local race results from an Australian based site and can't get it on Velonews...and I live outside of Boulder.

http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=76916

. . . Velonews was bought by a magazine holding company last year which has increased the workload but I would bet has not increased the staff. I've done work for them and I get the impression they are running and gunning all the time trying to keep up. It's not an uncommon situation at just about any publication these days. As far as I know VN has one guy in Europe--Andrew Hood. That's one guy to cover an entire continent. They are just stretched thin.

BBD

[Z3c]

It's probably Andreu
d

+1; Frankie is not going to go down over this so helping is probably a smart move.

[dancinkozmo]

+1; Frankie is not going to go down over this so helping is probably a smart move.

could it be mike barry ???

[BumbleBeeDave]

He fits the description. Never tested positive. But he and Betsy certainly have no reason to love Lance anymore after the SCA lawsuit. Add to that, shortly after the SCA lawsuit stuff he was canned from his job as DS at Toyota United. Just a coincidence? . . . Hmmm. :rolleyes:

At this point if things keep going like this I don't think it really matters if Lance cannot be convicted of a criminal offense because there is no physical evidence. He could still be sued seven ways for Sunday by former sponsors wanting to get their dough back. The burden of proof in criminal cases is "beyond a reasonable doubt" but in civil cases it's only "preponderance of the evidence" or some such legalese. I think he's in deep, deep trouble one way or another at this point.

BBD

[Avispa]

What if it's Levi? Could explain the way he was dissed by RS in the Tour and now for Utah.

No it ain't Levi... He would not be wearing the Mellow J's Kit in Utah if it was him, trust me....

Funny how all the pigs are squealing now the slaughter house has opened the door!

..A..

[Lifelover]

could it be mike barry ???

Can't be him. He is the son of a frame builder, no way he would ever cheat.

This whole sweet heart deal reminds me of a quote from "O Brother where art thou"

"Pete: The Preacher said it absolved us.
Ulysses Everett McGill: For him, not for the law. I'm surprised at you, Pete, I gave you credit for more brains than Delmar.
Delmar O'Donnell: But they was witnesses that seen us redeemed.
Ulysses Everett McGill: That's not the issue Delmar. Even if that did put you square with the Lord, the State of Mississippi's a little more hard-nosed."

The only cyclist that is goingto fess up is an X-cyclist. Telling the truth will mean a ban by the UCI and pretty much a career ender. If the FEDS do not have any hard evidence to show the cyclist, they are very likely going to continue to deny.

Assuming it is all true, if Lance were all the sudden fess up, he would be screwing the careers of JB, George and basically every cyclist that ever rode with him. I suspect that all the teams did/are cheating and that every rider made a pact to take it to the grave. Only the spineless, weasels are going to fess up to save their own ASS. If the "men" of the sport ever admitt to doping, they won't take down those that they rode with.

[Richard]

"Funny how all the pigs are squealing now the slaughter house has opened the door"

It's not so simple. Quite a number of years ago I was standing in my garage working on my bike. A non descript blue sedan pulls in my driveway and a white bread cheap suited couple get out. Facetiously I think "wow...Sculley and Mulder." Well it was the FBI investigating activity at a former employer and they wanted to ask questions. I was smart enough to get a lawyer and immunity. Grand Jury testimony followed. Believe me, when the FBI or any Federal investigator comes knocking, all you want to do is get immunity and testify and come away clean. Things you would never make public are attested to because you know and I mean KNOW (even if knowing is just your imagination) that if you don't get out front of the situation, it will cause you no end of grief. There are plenty of ex-teammates who just want to get it over with and are bargaining for all it's worth.

[firerescuefin]

The only cyclist that is goingto fess up is an X-cyclist. Telling the truth will mean a ban by the UCI and pretty much a career ender. If the FEDS do not have any hard evidence to show the cyclist, they are very likely going to continue to deny.

Only the spineless, weasels are going to fess up to save their own ASS. If the "men" of the sport ever admitt to doping, they won't take down those that they rode with.

If you're at the end of your career, which the riders of his era are, and you're faced with hard jail time, you're going to go to jail to save....a bully that has been huffing and puffing for years, suing anyone that might have a bad thing to say. Karma is a ....well you know.

It's amazing how treating people with dignity and respect will benefit you in the end...and the opposite is also true.

[johnnymossville]

Pro Cycling and doping is peanuts but I'm kinda enjoying the cleansing process going on here.

...my what a great day for a ride this is!

[Lifelover]

If you're at the end of your career, which the riders of his era are, and you're faced with hard jail time, you're going to go to jail to save....a bully that has been huffing and puffing for years, suing anyone that might have a bad thing to say. Karma is a ....well you know.

It's amazing how treating people with dignity and respect will benefit you in the end...and the opposite is also true.

I find it interesting that people outside of cycling assume that the riders of Lance's era think ill of him. However, fear him so much that they only speak well of him. Remember that they all most likely took PEDS also, so should hold no will ill to him over that. The negative statements from other current and former riders seem few and far between. If everyone dislikes him so much why keep quite. He is only on one team. The other teams need riders and I just don't see where he has any influence outside his very small circle. Maybe he could have more influence over the American riders.

Even if they did hate Lance, telling the truth will take down other riders that have raced, fought and suffered with them.

All the honor BS aside, I do agree with you that IF the riders are convinced that they will do jail time if they lie, they will and should tell the truth. I'm just not sure the Feds have enough hard evidence to convince them they will ever get time. I would like to think the Gov't would need more than he/said she/said to send someone to jail.

Time will tell but we will continue to debate regardless. The Fans will remain fans and the haters will remain haters.

I think the above poster makes a great point. If this doesn't come to resolve before Football season kicks in, damn near no one in the USA will care.

[oldguy00]

+1; Frankie is not going to go down over this so helping is probably a smart move.

I was thinking the same after reading the article yesterday, probably Frankie.

[simple]

If this doesn't come to resolve before Football season kicks in, damn near no one in the USA will care.


Talk about a sport where the fan base is in denial......

[FL_MarkD]

No denial here, may the best man (and his PEDs) win.

My question about this recent investigation and the talk about former sponsors filing suits against Armstrong. Why? They got exactly what they paid for, publicity. I can't imagine any contract said that they could sue if in the future it was found out that the team was outside the UCI rules (or federal laws). They can only sue if they have a loss, certainly saying that previous team members (like Landis) were 'cheaters' doesn't cost them anything measurable in dollars.

Mark

[Lifelover]

Talk about a sport where the fan base is in denial......


Football fans are not in denial. They don't care. There are much bigger risk in football than any health issues with taking PEDS.

[Rueda Tropical]

Only the spineless, weasels are going to fess up to save their own ASS. If the "men" of the sport ever admitt to doping, they won't take down those that they rode with.

The "men" of the sport have only had to face sports authorities. Keep your mouth shut and after 2 years you are welcomed back. It doesn't work that way with the Feds. You want a deal, you give up everybody, teammates, doctors, suppliers, etc., Leave something out or tell one little fib and all bets are off.

The "men" will be rushing to make a deal. The Mafia code of Omerta didn't survive the Feds. Cycling's code of silence won't last 10 seconds now that real law enforcement is involved with real jail time for perjury. I bet there is not one hold out ready to risk perjuring themselves for LA.

[TMB]

But Levi was not part of US Postal Team, was he? I can't recall.

Levi got popped in 1996 at the US Criterium Championships.

[oldpotatoe]

It's probably Andreu
d

Him or Hincapie. They want immunity rather than time in Leavenworth, KS.

[BumbleBeeDave]

http://velonews.competitor.com/2010/08/news/lance-armstrong-withdraws-from-2011-leadville_134059

Lance has withdrawn from the Leadville 100, citing a nagging hip injury from his Tour crashes. But he's still planning to do some cancer fundraiser rides.

Lots of nosy media at Leadville and a possibly unfriendly crowd after he beat local favorite Weins last year, showing up with several designated, though informal team members who paced him--just like in a road race.

Lots of friendly fans at the cancer events who will be all over anybody that gives him a hard time.

BBD

[firerescuefin]

http://velonews.competitor.com/2010/08/news/lance-armstrong-withdraws-from-2011-leadville_134059

Lots of nosy media at Leadville and a possibly unfriendly crowd after he beat local favorite Weins last year, showing up with several designated, though informal team members who paced him--just like in a road race.

Lots of friendly fans at the cancer events who will be all over anybody that gives him a hard time.

BBD

Interesting you bring up Leadville. This was one of those watershed moments for me with Lance. To clarify something Dave wrote, people loved the fact that Lance showed up (to race for the win). What they didn't love was Lance bringing the top factory sponsored Trek MTB team guys to serve as his MTB version of the " le bleu train" too essentialy soften and blow up his challenegers rather than just beat Wiens (44 years old...not a professional rider). You want to talk "golf clap" when Lance crossed the finish line. Yeah, people were not impressed....except for the "Branch Lancivians" who were going nuts and would argue with anyone why this was "good form".

Not impressed.

[54ny77]

Does anyone seriously think Sir Lancealot is going to get busted for the broad scope of "institutionalized whatever" that's being asserted/claimed?

I would bet, at most, he gets tagged for something minor, pays a nominal fine & admits no wrongdoing.

The men behind the machine are too smart to let that institution fall.

[trophyoftexas]

The men behind the machine are too smart to let that institution fall.

...what I've been thinking about, too. Cancer research-fund raising lobby maybe makes a few calls, points out what THEIR losses might total up to, wonders who or what is going to step in and make up for the difference in the money that he's help raise for them....not saying it will happen but powerful people in position to make things happen COULD change the direction of this whole episode. At any rate whatever happens is going to be very interesting to watch!....but I'll be happy when it's all over with one way or another....it's just that in cycling I'm not sure that we'll be able to recognize when it ever IS over!