anyone check out this latest Cervelo?

[gemship]

I just stumbled upon this bike test while doing my occasional dream bike internet browsing, it makes me want a Meivici AE even more. Even still this bike sounds very impressive.

from bikerader-"After giving us a tantalising glimpse back in February, Cervélo have finally unveiled their lightest, stiffest and most expensive bike yet – the R5ca. Costing US$9,800 (frameset only) and with a claimed sub-700g frame weight, it's the result of three years' work at the company's Project California design facility."

http://www.bikeradar.com/news/article/first-look-cervelos-ultralight-r5ca-frame-26360

[rcnute]

I just stumbled upon this bike test while doing my occasional dream bike internet browsing, it makes me want a Meivici AE even more. Even still this bike sounds very impressive.

from bikerader-"After giving us a tantalising glimpse back in February, Cervélo have finally unveiled their lightest, stiffest and most expensive bike yet – the R5ca. Costing US$9,800 (frameset only) and with a claimed sub-700g frame weight, it's the result of three years' work at the company's Project California design facility."

http://www.bikeradar.com/news/article/first-look-cervelos-ultralight-r5ca-frame-26360

That article/advertising is hilarious.

[Charles M]

I'ts an "I guess we'll see" bike...

Remember GURU photon...



They made the bikes weight 99% of the marketing priority (and gave themselves a "world championship belt").

Then the production bikes started landing and missing the claimed weight target. It didnt help that a "customer" then tried to say his bike made weight and was FANTASTIC! but the only pictures he had were of a bike frame taken at Guru's own store front... which sparked someone to email me my favorite nickname... The Fauxton.

The bikes were still light after GURU bumped up the durability, but the fact that they hyped weight so much, gave themselves a trophy and then missed their claims (despite pulling off derailure hangers etc) made folks go a little cold.



Hopefully Cervelo pull it off, but no publication has done anything past repeating Cervelo's claims.


A couple of large companies have produced proto's in the sub 700 gram range. I know 2 that won't to produce the bikes though because they simply wound not stand up to consumer use...

[BumbleBeeDave]

A frame MORE expensive than a Meivici? Ouch.

BBD

[gemship]

A couple of large companies have produced proto's in the sub 700 gram range. I know 2 that won't to produce the bikes though because they simply wound not stand up to consumer use...


There's some irony to it as they say in the article that Cervelo understands weight will have to be added to legally race it professionally but they actually designed this bike with the customers intent on having the lightest bike. Not to mention I do recall Cervelo stating in the past thru their marketing that it's never their intent to produce the lightest bikes but rather a well design bike that hits all the goals, weight to stiffness, ride qualities etc. Too funny, it's impressive they made this bike in California, I guess maybe with a whole lot of R and D and low production count that explains the price, I don't know... but it sure made some sense to me in regard to a Meivici. I love the Meivici's shapes and options, I actually think in the world of high end carbon bikes it's a value packed bargain especially in comparison to this Cervelo.

[wasfast]

There's definitely a market for super light bikes, one's that will never be in the peleton due to the current weight restrictions. At least Cervelo openly admits the bike is for the weight weenie public or those that want the most expensive everything, not pro racers. The price is extreme, the weight claim is extreme and they'll likely sell everyone of them. Isn't that ultimately the point as a manufacturer, to sell bikes?

[false_Aest]

I'm not old enough to be crotchety . . . . yet, I am.

This is just stupid.

This isn't performance driven it's fat stomach, small penis driven--what haven't I been seeing?--driven.

[gemship]

There's definitely a market for super light bikes, one's that will never be in the peleton due to the current weight restrictions. At least Cervelo openly admits the bike is for the weight weenie public or those that want the most expensive everything, not pro racers. The price is extreme, the weight claim is extreme and they'll likely sell everyone of them. Isn't that ultimately the point as a manufacturer, to see bikes?


Oh yeah moving forward in the sense of lightness is rightness is very cool. I'm actually amazed that Cervelo have not only achieved this goal but are marketing this product for the public with confidence. I imagine at some point the UCI will lower the weight standard and it surprises me they haven't already.

Carbon, love it, hate it, the material has enormous potential. After listening to a interview with Jens Voight, he explained how at the end of the TDF fundamentally lighter riders tend to have a advantage over the heavier riders just because of less mass equating to less fatigue. I guess it's only natural that every body racing wants a lighter bike.

[gemship]

I'm not old enough to be crotchety . . . . yet, I am.

This is just stupid.

This isn't performance driven it's fat stomach, small penis driven--what haven't I been seeing?--driven.


Well.... I haven't seen mass marketed touring bikes made of carbon fiber yet. Give the material another 20 years of development and maybe it will happen.

[djg]

I'm not old enough to be crotchety . . . . yet, I am.

This is just stupid.

This isn't performance driven it's fat stomach, small penis driven--what haven't I been seeing?--driven.

Hey, fat guys with little thingies are people too . . . and this may be among the less gross compensating purchases they can make.

Me, I'm average, and I'd like to think I bought my (used) M3 for the sake of beauty and truth . . . but I don't actually think so.

The marketing drivel is marketing drivel and should, of course, be mocked without mercy. And there's no effin' way I'm dropping 10K on a bike frame, even if one of the handful of sizes happens to fit me to a T. Not 8 or 6k either, thanks very much. I could take a quarter of a pound off any of my bikes by changing the wheels, but I'm in no hurry to do so and, frankly, I'm already thinking of cross season.

When they offer up a 700 gram cross frame . . . well, that will be both interesting and very funny (looking forward to the ad that touts the advantage of a frame that's lighter than the tires it sits on).

OTOH, fully realizing that the latest-greatest often enough is not the greatest, or not appreciably an improvement for most folks in most circumstances, it's not crazy that they keep seeking marginal improvements (on whatever scheme they think represents improvements) and -- assuming that the things are safe to ride -- that they sell the fruits of their latest development work at some scary premium to a small number of people who, for whatever reason, want that.

[Charles M]

First, a Frame is only about 10%+/- of a total bike weight...

Nobody will have to add weight to a frame to make it legal... They will simply need their total package weight to be above a certain point.


Second, It sounds like there some think that this bike exists, works and is being sold. When It's a marketing plug where the publication had no hands on evaluation.


It's a "we'll see" bike. Cervelo are large enough to sell and support something like this, so we'll see if it happens.

[cfox]

there is a long list of carbon bikes the likes of which you could get 2 frame sets for the price of this silly thing. I don't want to get into a price vs. quality debate, but 2x price of a Dogma? 3x a Ridley Helium? Really? 10k for a molded frame with 1 seat tube angle? what a joke

[tele]

digging up an old thread...

spent some time at Hot Tubes outside Worcester Mass yesterday, Toby does a lot of custom painting for Cervelo. Anyway, he had one of these California frames to paint. The thing was an absolute thing of scary beautifulness. It is amazing to me how massive the bb area can be and different size chain stays yet be so incredibly light. Pushing the envelop.

[pitcrew]

I was holding/looking at one a few weeks ago at Cadence in Philly. Impressive.

[Fixed]

bro cats weighing 200 pounds want bike for 120 pound cat then complains it is no good
cheers
imho

[Adam]

We have a size 56 frameset in our shop currently. We weighed the frame with the der tab, bottle bolts, seat collar and BBright BB installed. 760g.

Build quality is the best we have seen from Cervelo. The R5 and R3 really have stepped up in quality and innovation as trickle-downs from the R5Ca design.

The frame is a show stopper and a draw to our shop and the Cervelo brand. I hope to put it under a client who will really appreciate the design/construction intentions from Cervelo. I believe only 300 will be made. It is not intended to compete with their or any one else's offerings, but as an R/D item to gain better production and quality protocols to inform their production bikes.

It also ships with the Rotor cranks and BB.

[BumbleBeeDave]

It is amazing to me how massive the bb area can be and different size chain stays yet be so incredibly light. Pushing the envelop.

. . . of where exactly are the limits of carbon as a fabrication material? It seems in a variety of applications we have not reached the limits--the creation of a frame like this is proof of that.

How much stronger can the material itself be made with the addition of nanotubes or whatever the other next big improvement in materials technologt will be? Where is the limit of how those advances can be exploited in real-world applications? Where else will all the computerized load analysis take us in paring down the needed material to do the job to the absolute minimum?

There is an end there somewhere. I read a story one time about how the level of certain athletic achievements--women's marathon, for example--simply can't keep going up forever at the rate they are improving now because of the know physical limits of the materials the human body is made of in its present evolutionary form.

But with carbon I don't think we're anywhere near yet even knowing what the limits of the material are, much less knowing what we are capable of doing with it. I don't think it's science fiction to forecast that 50 years from now we might be able to mold an entire automobile frame and body in one piece of carbon and the whole thing will weight scarcely 100 pounds.

Nor is it SF to think about a carbon bike frame with conductive plastic wiring molded into the frame to transmit power and commands to a totally electronic shifting system controlling a belt drive integrated into the rear hub--or even a belt or drive shaft itself integrated into the frame.

A five pound bike? Give it 25 years.

BBD

[sg8357]

Cervelo should pitch this bike to women, a hundred pound lady needs
a 12lb bike. Haldeman's rule is the bike should be 12% of body weight.

[bobswire]

Cervelo should pitch this bike to women, a hundred pound lady needs
a 12lb bike. Haldeman's rule is the bike should be 12% of body weight.

I thought this (Haldeman's rule) was interesting enough topic to have its own thread while not detouring this thread. http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=84308

[Charles M]

I forgot about this thread... Yes the frames are moving. Good news.

Hopefully reviews from solid sources follow.

[roundabout]

I was holding/looking at one a few weeks ago at Cadence in Philly. Impressive.


I held one at my local shop this past week. Beautiful bike, and without a doubt the lightest frame/fork I've ever touched.

Is it absurdly and prohibitively expensive? Probably.
Is it worth 12 grand? Maybe.
Is it an incredible piece of human engineering? I believe so.

[oldpotatoe]

We have a size 56 frameset in our shop currently. We weighed the frame with the der tab, bottle bolts, seat collar and BBright BB installed. 760g.

Build quality is the best we have seen from Cervelo. The R5 and R3 really have stepped up in quality and innovation as trickle-downs from the R5Ca design.

The frame is a show stopper and a draw to our shop and the Cervelo brand. I hope to put it under a client who will really appreciate the design/construction intentions from Cervelo. I believe only 300 will be made. It is not intended to compete with their or any one else's offerings, but as an R/D item to gain better production and quality protocols to inform their production bikes.

It also ships with the Rotor cranks and BB.

Reality check here. I own a Waterford frame that weighs about twice what the Cervelo weighs. 700 grams more. That's 1.54 pounds in 'new money'.

Say a rider weighs 150 pounds, not unusual for the Peloton and his bicycle weighs the UCI minimum of 15 pounds..package, adding water and clothes and shoes, etc is probably about 170 pounds? so that light, LIGHT frame 'package' is still only 1.5 pounds lighter than if the same guy rode a Waterford.

1.5 pounds is less than 1%. I think many are impressed with weight but don't really consider that ya still gotta get on it and pedal it.

Yep, carbon seems amazing but reality is a impressive concept.

[TexasJohn]

Cervelo should pitch this bike to women, a hundred pound lady needs
a 12lb bike. Haldeman's rule is the bike should be 12% of body weight.

That's the best business idea of any type I've heard in quite a while!

[TexasJohn]

I saw the production version at Excel Sports in Boulder.
Price for F+F was north of $9k.

It's is a VERY nice looking frame and very light.

But, you can't get something for nothing.
I wonder what the trade-off was/is to get to that mass?

[dancinkozmo]

...the trade off is it costs north of 9k.
...cheap, light, or durable...pick any two

[ultraman6970]

Wonder how many hammers you have to put under the saddle to make that frame UCI weight legal for UCI races.

I bet chinese will come up with a even lighter version :P less weight, less material, less cost. the 9Gs represent the time and money they spend to figure it out where to trim carbon, too much in my opinion, besides even if i had the money, it will stand my weight for more than a season? If regular cervelos crack, this one will more prone to it i guess.

Nice bike tho, give u that :D

[avalonracing]

Haldeman's rule is the bike should be 12% of body weight.

My rule is that the bike should be 10.6% of body weight. This is the new paradigm.

[1centaur]

Exactly. I have no bike at 12% of my weight. My lightest is 9.09% of my weight. If bikes were all 12 lbs due to super new materials, the rule would change. So it's not a rule, it's a reverse engineered truism to reflect a bias and a moment in history.

[Fixed]

bro most of us have 12% in front of us
cheers
imho

[soulspinner]

Guess Id rather have an 800 gram Parlee z5(3900 for frameset and headset) and spend the extra on a set of new Lightweight clinchers :banana:

[Bob Ross]

Guess Id rather have an 800 gram Parlee z5(3900 for frameset and headset) and spend the extra on a set of new Lightweight clinchers

I just spooged.

[nahtnoj]

Light weight is great. Being on the bleeding edge costs money.

This is still stupid.

You're telling me they couldn't optimize the ride/handling by changing the layup of the carbon? The ONLY viable solution was to switch to a 1 3/8 lower bearing. Bull????. They did it so that wankers could brag about it to their friends. Same goes for this new BB standard. A solution looking for a problem, all of it.

[FlashUNC]

Considering you can get several full customs for that price, I'm thinking this is more than a little nuts.

I remember going to my old shop one day, and they had a $20,000 or so Pinarello TT rig for sale. I asked the guy I knew there who bought those kinds of bikes. His response? "Doctors and attorneys with more money than sense."

So there's a market for that stuff out there somewhere...

[soulspinner]

I just spooged.

Clean up on page 3! :rolleyes:

[tele]

So there's a market for that stuff out there somewhere...
aint that the whole point?

[Crazy Chris]

A friend of mine a few minutes ago told me that a man won the overall on the Death Valley 508 (508 miles) riding a steel bike with 6-speed friction down tube levers, and old-style pedals. That's the overall win. Who needs a $9000 frame?

[rnhood]

Who needs a BMW? Who needs a 3000 sq. ft. home? Who needs high priced Assos bibs?

If steel floats your boat by all means buy it. But I applaud pioneering companies that continue knocking on the doors of technological boundaries, and giving us new products, different products - whether they are better or worse. Fact is, in our great country it's the entrepreneurial spirit that will play a large role in shaping our future economy. Manufacturing is gone.

[Fixed]

A friend of mine a few minutes ago told me that a man won the overall on the Death Valley 508 (508 miles) riding a steel bike with 6-speed friction down tube levers, and old-style pedals. That's the overall win. Who needs a $9000 frame?
i bet that cat was smiling
cheers
imho

[BumbleBeeDave]

I remember going to my old shop one day, and they had a $20,000 or so Pinarello TT rig for sale. I asked the guy I knew there who bought those kinds of bikes. His response? "Doctors and attorneys with more money than sense."

. . . and these same guys came in and bought cameras from us . . . :rolleyes:

BBD