Nagasawa Road: First Ride

[dbrk]

As the Finger Lakes enter their fourth yearly season (known as "Construction" which is preceded back to front by Almost Winter, Winter, and Still Winter), the roads can still be gravel strewn, roadkill graveyards that would instill caution even in so intrepid a rider as, say, our jerk. I have untili today ridden only fat tire bikes, my skinny tire of choice being a Rivendell Ruffy Tuffy, my fat tire choices being Saluki, Mariposa, Ebisu, Moots YBB Psychlo, and Sachs 'Cross. The Nagasawa Road, however, is truly a skinny-tire, fair weather, fair roads bike. It will not accept more than a 25c (and a skinny 25 at that) tire, so today's first three plus hour ride on early spring roads with bright skies and reasonable winds was the outer limit of this particular bike's brilliance. What I mean by that is that even the smooth pavement is, at this time of year, nothing like smooth and after a few weeks of only fat tires, the bike's racer-ish ride definitely created an exaggerated impression.

A few equipe notes before the ride report. Every bit worked perfectly and I found shifting the DA9 downtube shifters under load to be no different than STI for bang-on certainty. MKS Royal Nuevo pedals with MKS clips and Fujitoshi straps are, in my estimate, better than even Campagnolo Superleggeri or TA Roads. These are the best clips'n'straps pedals ever made, better even than Croce d'Aune, and I will never buy another pair of clipless again. The TA ProVis5 or Cyclotouriste with Etoile is a fantastic crank, the gearing is 46/36 with a 12-27 cassette. Nothing else to remark upon, the bike is otherwise as you see it in the gallery pictures except that today I swapped out the Dugast skinnies for Clement 23c clinchers on DA hubs and OP rims because I could not, in conscience, put those perfect silk tires on such perfectly nasty roads (though I have no doubt they would endure).

The Conclusion first: This bike is simply perfect at what it is made for. I would not choose it for a Dawn to Darkness ride because such a distance ride risks weather, requires at least a handlebar bag, and should be taken on a proper randonneur bike. This is a "race" bike, albeit one that is extremely comfortable and easy to ride. The best comparison is with my Sachs. Like the Sachs, the Nagasawa is best at speed: this is where it is most stable, most assured, and where it gives back best what is put forward. At slow speeds the front end tends to require some attention, again I would say, more like the Sachs; neither is "twitchy" but neither are these the sorts of bikes that hold the line when you are wandering in blissful insouciance or abject exhaustion. The Nag wants you to ride it, sorta' thoroughbred style and since that was what it was made for, then I'd say it is just right. According to my math (no numbers were provided), the seat tube angle is about 72 and change and there is plenty of setback on this 61cm frame. The balance on the bike seems perfect: it won't wobble, it likes to turn, and it is very happy descending. Take your hands off the bars at speed and when going slowly: this tells you plenty and here the Nag truly excelled. Go as fast as you can descending and see if the bike scares you: Nahhh, the Nag was perfect, JUST like the Sachs. Pay attention and the bike turns brilliantly, fail to pay attention and the bike will not hold its line. Unlike a randonneur bike which gives up some turning for slow speed stability, the Nag proves itself again as a racer-ish bike (not a randonneur). My fit on the bike is perfect and the only adjustment I made was to raise the seat. For those of you who like the aesthetic of higher seats to bars, imagine the gallery pictures with the saddle another 1.5cm taller. Why? It's the pedals and these fantastic Specialized Sonoma shoes---the best non-clipless shoes I think I have ever owned (and Lord Knows thems a LOT of cycling shoes...).

The Ride: On a three hour, fair weather Finger Lakes ride you can find several fast long descents, miles of rolling hills, a few very steep climbs, and almost no traffic. What you find very little of is pure flats though given how the hills are around here, small hills feel like flats (when I ride up in Rochester on real flats I feel fast...I mean...it's flat!!!). Here, no flat riding. I likely got it up to about 50plus mph on one descent near the end of the ride. I was used to the bike by then and it had proven stable with all the hands-off-the-bars tricks that I know. I never use a computer (I did once and missed the rising flight of a great blue heron while I was peering downward to look at some stupid number...when I got home, I took off the computer and gave it away the next day. NO information from a computer is EVER worth missing a bird worthy of such acclamation), but I am always sure of my speed and distance, and this bike loved the speed. I was confident and assured enough to lift my hands' pressures to see if I could induce wobble. No wobble. Frame must be perfectly aligned. At the bottom of a very steep descent---TdFLers will remember the bottom of Egypt Road---I pulled hard into the turn and Mr Nagasawa smiled. I felt like Chairman Kaga biting into a yellow pepper. The rollers were happy and then the climbs. This bike would make a fine Pass Hunter ride so long as the weather held up, of course. Pass Hunting is, more or less, when you go out and climb every last hill, mountain, and, well, pass, you can find in a given day. Around here there are some SERIOUS pass hunting opportunities. (Some day KeithA should come back here and ride ALL the hills in one day...that'll teach'im, get it outta' his system...it can be wild.) Anyway, the bike is nimble and lithe going up and it has that nice rocking flex that seems to give back to you something of what you put in. I could not flex the bb in unwanted ways, again reminded of the perfect Sachs and one of the Goodrich Rivendells.

I have no idea what tubing Mr Nagasawa used. The toptube is 1" (not the modern 1.125" or larger) but the fork _feels_ like 531 Reynolds. You know how the tips of a perfect Reynolds fork sorta' flex over rough stuff? This bike feels like my Ron Cooper, which is 531 throughout. It may be Kansei tubing, I could care less. What you need are tubes that give a great ride and there's plenty of those; far, far more important is design, alignment, and tires. I think if you used a larger tire (not that you could) on this bike you might screw up the perfection (pneumatic trail would increase) but as it is it is hard to imagine a sweeter, more perfectly compliant ride.

So, on a fair day when the ride is not too too exhausting and doesn't involve darkness, the need to bring lunch, or the threat of rain, this is about as nice as bikes get. It is truly as sweet a "race" bike as any non-racer, such as myself might want. There are so many _kinds_ of cycling and this bike excels at that for which it was made. I'm not sure how much the built bike weighs but I am sure it is less than twenty pounds. Bikes should weigh what they need to and I feel about weight pretty much the way I feel about tubes: far down the list of priorities.

I am so very happy that I finally own a Nagasawa. I fee lucky, as lucky as a boy can be who loves bicycles. Gosh, I sure love bicycles.

See ya'll when you pass me!

dbrk

[Climb01742]

who dares write another ride report after this? geez, douglas, couldn't you have set the bar just a bit lower? brilliantly done in every respect. damn, dude, you can write. and the bike seems to equal your ability to describe it. i'm turning in my pen. ;)

[Ray]

geez, douglas, couldn't you have set the bar just a bit lower?
Yeah, he coulda, but he chose to set the seat higher instead :cool:

Agree, great report. Sounds like the kind of bike I'm very partial to. And now I feel like I've already ridden it!

-Ray

[bostondrunk]

I mised yore shakespeerean prosse <burp>...wondurfal!! :banana: :beer:

[BumbleBeeDave]

. . . wonderful to have you back with us! :beer: :beer: :beer:

As for your report . . . congratulations on obtaining another unique, finely crafted ride you can be proud of. 46/36 does seem like a rather odd crank, though . . . reasons? . . .

<<blissful insouciance or abject exhaustion>> . . . have you been feeding your thesaurus steroids? ;)

<<Gosh, I sure love bicycles.>> . . . Yeah. Ain’t it nice? ;)

Welcome back.

BBDave

[rnhood]

Great ride report. Almost had me feeling the wind in my face when describing going downhill. No doubt that Nagasawa is beautifully thought out and constructed.

[Keith A]

Although I haven't finished reading your entire ride report (it is printed out and will be finishing it shortly before I lay my head to sleep) -- I just want to say that this is one of the reasons that I keep coming back for more. I truly enjoy reading your posts -- this one especially had me right there along with you! So try and not leave such a void here again :)

Thanks so much for sharing.
-Keith A

[dirtdigger88]

thank you for sharing

Jason

[Tom Byrnes]

Hi Douglas,

I join my brethren in saying that it sure is great to hear from you again. You have been sorely missed.

Your ride report was special. I felt like I was there riding with you. I am glad that your bike is everything you wanted it to be.

Hope to see more of your posts again soon.

Tom

[Kevin]

Great report. Welcome back.

Kevin

[davids]

dbrk,

Thank you for that enjoyable review, and congrats on a lovely, rare bicycle!

Although I'm used to your provokative, contrarian point of view (and value it highly!), I was surprised by your comments regarding clipless pedals - Why do you prefer the "clip'n'straps" to clipless?

As always, thanks for your thoughts!

[dbrk]

dbrk,
Although I'm used to your provokative, contrarian point of view (and value it highly!), I was surprised by your comments regarding clipless pedals - Why do you prefer the "clip'n'straps" to clipless?


Thank you for your kind comments, which I have clipped...:-)

I am ridding myself of clipless pedals on all of my bikes except the most modern wundermachines, which are limited use and see less and less road time. Interestingly, I have a perfect Hampsten Z1/Parlee built bike that weighs about nothing and is as nice a carbon fastboy as you could have, but I would far prefer on MOST days to ride an old RB-2 with real tire clearances... My criteria is that I'm going to use clipless only on bikes that have threadless stems (rather than just no lugs), and that is only a vain aesthetic judgment that has nothing to do with function.

For function clips'n'straps are so far superior, ime, that there is no comparison. I don't race, let's start there, and I'm not concerned about the putative "safety" advantages of clipless either. Leaving aside how much I dislike the looks of ALL clipless shoes (except those Adidas that came out about a decade ago that looked like "normal" cycling shoes and didn't sell and so were not made again, people apparently preferring shoes that better suit my friend Gautham who is a genuine Ringling Bros clown...), I can only lament that nice clips'n'straps shoes are rarer than carbon forks with clearance. I mean, let's get real: cycling shoes are the equivalent of a pair of Prada fashion spikes which have nothing to do with walking...sure, you can say they are good for riding, okay, fair enough but clipless shoes have nothing to do with getting off the bike and walking, even a tiny bit. Sure, mtn SPD shoes and pedals let you walk like in semi-normal ways but no clipless road shoe. Mtn shoes have those unnecessary, crypto-Hummer, near militaristic cleats which are good only for mountain bike running in races. If you wear clipless road shoes you stumble like an alien into the 7-11, you can't lay your bike against a tree and walk down the pond side, you can't walk!! So in order to BETTER my cycling experiences and experience no disadvantages in comparison to clipless, I have ditched clipless and will keep them on the very few remaining zooty bikes that would look sorta' stupid otherwise and hardly get ridden (All of them are for sale except for the plastic and ti Hampstens and Dario's Emma. Anyone want the red IF? my yellow Legend?) I don't pull out of clips, I don't feel unsafe in them, I don't see why clipless makes my life as a cyclist better when it restricts my movements off the bike. On a "race" bike the idea is not to get off it. For me, getting off a bike is something I want to do on nearly every ride, even if it's for fifteen minutes or just a few seconds to take a photo, kneel down at a flower or waterside, or just feel (and perhaps even look) normal. EVery tool for its purpose but I fail to see my purpose on clipless pedals other than fashion.

dbrk

[Spinner]

Douglas,

The details in your report stir wonderful memories of riding with you and other TdFL pals. I can see you flying down a hill, arms raised in joy, as you connect with machine and nature. What a show.

Thanks.

[Elefantino]

Your love for bikes sure comes through in your words.

I hope that one year soon I can make the open house. I'd love to ride with you; two tall guys out on the road, loving the ride and lamenting that the short guys are really lousy to draft.

Mike

[Climb01742]

For me, getting off a bike is something I want to do on nearly every ride, even if it's for fifteen minutes or just a few seconds to take a photo, kneel down at a flower or waterside

you've got a point, pal, a very good one. you really oughtta consider sharing your thoughts...maybe teach or something. :rolleyes: btw, do you ever say/write anything stupid? come on, just once...make the rest of us feel better. [silly tango-ing banana]

[vaxn8r]

DBRK,

Sure is fun reading your reports.

I do have a few thoughts (said in a mike Myers sort of way to Steven Spielberg). Why does everything have to be so black and white? You looked at your computer once, missed a bird, so all computers are thus bad. There's never once a time when someone asked you how far away something was, and you knew because you'd clocked it? Just as an example.

And the clippless pedals. I understand wanting a certain look. If that's it just say so. But you've got to be kidding us if you can get out of your clipless one millisecond faster than someone in clipless. And it's not like clipless cleats were one iota easier to walk around in. Not to mention the dogs don't go to sleep after an hour or so, like they did in clips. Or were you talkin' platform pedals-sans clips? Because I guess if you're talking sneakers then you have a point about dismounting and walking and such. Militaristic cleats? "Normal" cycling shoes?

Anyway, I am absolutely not trying to start a futile argument about the merits of computers or clipless pedals. Really. But your intent to justify demeans your posts. We know you like all things classic. Just say so and move on. As I read those parts of your post I felt a certain disapproval of a differing point of view. Maybe not intentioned, maybe more defensive coming from one who doesn't want to be viewed as a "retro".

I thought about deleting this post because I don't want to offend and I, like everyone else, likes you around. But I needed to say it because people, me included, respect what you say. And one's values about what they like or dislike don't always have to be put in terms of good or bad. They just are.

[e-RICHIE]

snipped:
"...so all computers are thus bad."


i can't speak for dbrk's reasoning, but i think computers on a
bicycle are a joke. that's my opinion. i ride a bicycle to get
away from information, not to gather it. i know my cadence
intuitively, i don't care to know the exact distance i ride, and
i have no interest in knowing the grade of an incline. i don't
think not having a computer has hurt my training or my racing
results. i like the clean, seemless look of a bicycle, a bicycle from
any era, that has no style-less wiring curled all around the
front brake housing and attached to the other frame parts with zip
ties and the like.

i realize i am in the minority with this p.o.v. since nearly all
riders i see have some sort of device near their stems.

hey - thanks for listening.
e-RICHIE

[dbrk]

There's never once a time when someone asked you how far away something was, and you knew because you'd clocked it? Just as an example.
But you've got to be kidding us if you can get out of your clipless one millisecond faster than someone in clipless. And it's not like clipless cleats were one iota easier to walk around in. Not to mention the dogs don't go to sleep after an hour or so, like they did in clips. Or were you talkin' platform pedals-sans clips? Because I guess if you're talking sneakers then you have a point about dismounting and walking and such. Militaristic cleats? "Normal" cycling shoes?

It is true that I express my opinions, one might say, stridently but I intend neither to "justify" my preferences as if they are superior _for others_ nor to ridicule other's choices. So not to be pedantic but I will reply to your queries because I was trying to make a case for "classic" equipment actually being superior for certain purposes, such as my notions of walking away from the bike or leaving time, speed, and distance behind. It's not a good/bad issue, it's a difference issue: different cycling "goals," different equipment and sometimes, yes, the old stuff is better, imo.

No, I have never been asked for any information I couldn't provide by wearing just a watch (which I do). (It might help that I almost always ride alone, belong to no clubs [that will have me], and have no interest in anything but the time of day.) So I have no need nor interest in cycling computers but if you like them, so be it. That I missed my bird was more like saying that I think I have other interests than what such a device provides or is suited for when the ride is primarily about being outside. I didn't say computers were "bad." I said I have other interests that this device distracts _me_ from enjoying. Plus, I don't want no electric gizmo on my bike if it isn't a light for darkness. So you've nailed me for being a bit of the misanthropic, malcontented luddite that I am but that's not a point of pride as much as it is a view of many sad directions this world, including cycling, is taking. You are free to be happier than me and ignore what've to say!

As for clips'n'straps and contemporary cycling's penchant for clown shoes, I suppose my experience doesn't match yours. I get in and out of clips nicely, my dogs don't sleep or hurt---in fact, I have finally found relief from a neuroma by my non-clipless shoes and the abililty to move about on the pedal. I don't use the old style cleats so my shoes are flat and stiff on the bottom. As for the style of contemporary cycling shoes, well, would you wear them to work or the office? My old Reynolds of England (not the tubing company) cycling shoes are so beautiful that I took out my perfect pair to wear on my wedding day (and put them back because I plan to be cremated in them...no kidding.) They are black, simple, lace up, sorta' elegant really. They look nothing like contemporary gear-oriented cycling shoes. The "militaristic" comment was glib but since the '80s everything in America has been more militaristic: fashion, SUVs, mtn bikes, it's more a semiotic thing, no? Back to the point--- I am not kidding: in my opinion, clip'sn'straps and "normal" looking shoes actually give a cyclist _more_ options, like walking around for example. Do you walk comfortably in clipless shoes? Now who's kidding who?


I don't like the "retro" label and of course I prefer the things that are classic, but I also have reasons and arguments (being an academic that is what I would offer to anyone who asked) why I think these "older" styles are not only still relevant but in some cases superior given what you are chosing from your cycling experience. You are free to disagree but I have condemned no one else's choices; rather I have argued for my own.

We don't live in a society that much values a discourse of argument (or for that matter, understands it and this says NOTHING about this post or anyone personally!!! It is a statement, an observation. I'm not looking for a fight and I am sorry you believe that my reasoning somehow demeans the case. To the contrary, I believe I am simply making a case, stating my preferences argumentatively. Arguments are not quarrels, as we all know. I'm not sure how you concluded that I was making a case of good and/or bad. I maintain no moral superiority for prefering old stuff or resisting industry trends (as GP once so aptly put it). Rather, I was making a case for why if you have my concerns about riding then the choice for "classic" equipment isn't nostalgic but, in fact, plausible and perhaps even superior. Agree or disagree is nothing like good and bad. I do suffer from being an academic. Over the past few days I've had some time to rejoin the Forum. I doubt I'll have much time over the next month to contribute anything much but it won't be from any offense. I think, ol'vax, I feel a tad misunderstood but not offended.

dbrk

[neverraced]

Pulling into the 7-11 parking lot, noticed a really stacked babe getting out of a Blue 2005 Heron. Parked the bike and walked over for a better look but my bike shoes made me slip and land on my arse. When I got up she was gone. I rode home and dumped the pedals (named, ironically enough, Look), threw out the Sidis and now blissfully ride in my Keds. No hot Italian shoe is worth missing a good look at a piece like that.

[e-RICHIE]

and they say men "don't feel".

[dbrk]

Pulling into the 7-11 parking lot, noticed a really stacked babe getting out of a Blue 2005 Heron. Parked the bike and walked over for a better look but my bike shoes made me slip and land on my arse. When I got up she was gone. I rode home and dumped the pedals (named, ironically enough, Look), threw out the Sidis and now blissfully ride in my Keds. No hot Italian shoe is worth missing a good look at a piece like that.

[I grew up in New Jersey, add proper inflection...]

Now, this, _this_ was funny.

dbrk

[Ray]

I am not kidding: in my opinion, clip'sn'straps and "normal" looking shoes actually give a cyclist _more_ options, like walking around for example. Do you walk comfortably in clipless shoes? Now who's kidding who?


I agree with much of Douglas's post (most of his posts), but this point I disagree with strongly enough to take issue. I used to have clips and straps on a couple of bikes and still sometimes use 'em. But I found that not many of my street shoes fit well into the clips and the ones that do are a pain to get shoved all the way in and the clips (even the leather covered ALE's) tend to mark up the shoes. I found that I ended up using one or two highly specialized pairs of shoes with clips and straps and those shoes were actually LESS visually acceptable in my office and around town than some of the casual SPD shoes I wear. So I have "road" clipless pedals on the bikes that I like to ride hard and very rarely get off of and "mountain" clipless pedals on the bikes that I frequently get off and walk around from. Between my SPD sandals in the summer and a couple sets of casual SPD type shoes for other parts of the year, I walk VERY comfortably in clipless shoes. I've gone touring with them and worn nothing else for a couple of weeks and was never sorry for it.

Riding with no retention at all is a different story and surely allows more choices of footwear, but I can't seem to enjoy riding with no retention for more than a mile or so and very few of my errand rides are that short. I have a couple bikes with the SPD pedals that have a "clipless" setup on one side and a bear trap on the other and occasionally ride very short distances in street shoes with these.

Otherwise, I agree that most of the cycling products out there are too specialized and that more choices would be better for a LOT of riders, although I seem to be in the midst of a love affair with racy bikes lately, rather than the more practical bikes that Douglas espouses so well and I have liked for so long and probably will go back to at some point.

-Ray

[Climb01742]

i use my computer for cadence primarily and as a quick cheat to remember what gear i'm in. i grant you that were i a more experience rider i might know my cadence more intuitively and accurately, but i'm still learning. for my training, i find cadence and time are the useful bits of info. a few of my bikes are computer-free, for when i'm in that mood. but most have 'em, 'cause for me, some info is helpful.

a quibble: saying of modern clipless shoes "As for the style of contemporary cycling shoes, well, would you wear them to work or the office?", well, douglas, that's just silly. would i use my bike to beat eggs? would i use a hammer to cut my hair? modern clipless shoes have a single purpose. to criticize them for not meeting an unintended, and honestly unrelated purpose, is kinda unfair, don't you think?

but to your larger point, it's all good. different riders have different, but equally valid, goals. i know you well enough to know that your views are driven by passion, not judgment. you are a passionate advocate. i don't share a lot of your cycling choices, but i respect them, as i respect you, because i believe you don't think that your views are superior, or that anyone else's are inferior. just different. respectful differences. wow, wasn't that what america used to be about? :rolleyes:

[e-RICHIE]

a computer that tells you what gear you're in?
who makes that?

[vandeda]

Do you walk comfortably in clipless shoes? Now who's kidding who?

dbrk

Depends on the shoe. There are clipless shoes that look fairly contemporary with a softer sole. I used straps before going clipless ... personally I won't go back to straps, especially on the mountain bike. But I love my clipless on the road bike too. But ... I have this problem in summer ... I like my puppies to breathe! My Dad has reprimanded me because I'll do work around the house & car (yardwork, putting up gutters, garage doors, doing work on the car) in bare feet. I'll take my chances with cutting my foot because it's worth it.

Clipless leaves me the option of sandles ... I'm not sure how comfortable sandals would be with straps ... platform pedals ok, but straps ... hmmmm. I'm uber excited to try out the Lake SPD sandals on the commuter. I would wear these at work if I was allowed too, but alas, no sneakers or sandals. I heard a great arguement from people I though, which left me laughing some. A number of people have said "I wouldn't want sandals on my feet if I crashed". My reply ... "If I crash my road bike, most likely the last thing I'm thinking about is my feet, I'm worrying about the condition fo the rest of my body"

Dan - breathe ... my boys must breathe!!! Bring on the sandals :D

[dbrk]

. But I found that not many of my street shoes fit well into the clips and the ones that do are a pain to get shoved all the way in and the clips (even the leather covered ALE's) tend to mark up the shoes. I found that I ended up using one or two highly specialized pairs of shoes with clips and straps and those shoes were actually LESS visually acceptable in my office and around town than some of the casual SPD shoes I wear. Riding with no retention at all is a different story and surely allows more choices of footwear, but I can't seem to enjoy riding with no retention for more than a mile or so and very few of my errand rides are that short. I have a couple bikes with the SPD pedals that have a "clipless" setup on one side and a bear trap on the other and occasionally ride very short distances in street shoes with these.
-Ray

Lemme just clarify one point that I seem to have made poorly. When I say "normal" looking shoes, I mean _cycling_ shoes with nice, flat bottoms (not lugged mtn shoes), that look normal. I never meant street shoes. My old Reynolds England shoes (I should take a picture of these for folks) are more than appropriate for work. Ray might remember these 'cause Rivendell sold them ages ago and he and I are older than Noah who brought a pair of race bikes _and_ some day tourers both on the ark, as I recall.

I confess one other point too. I am using old stuff again because I positively refuse to pay the prices for new stuff, especially in the last year. I mean, 400-plus bucks for some shifters? But that aside, some vintage parts are crazy expensive, especially particular French things and Campag because the Japanese collectors get involved. The good news is that I just love Suntour, MKS, and Sugino stuff and the collectors are not so, so keen for that.

One more thing...Not too long ago I rode a coupla' days in a row with my pal Grant. Grant does indeed ride in Keds or Converse canvas sneakers and uses just plain platform pedals, total phred style. I would wager the farm (and...uhh...I happen to own a farm....) that Grant could mostly ride away from just about all of us. This guy is strong and fast, if he wants to be. On our Riv Atlantis bikes, however, we passed mountain and road bikers going up Diablo for what seemed the proper spec of the bike. We both rode platforms all day for these two days and while I still prefer clips, it was fun, easy, and I got used to it in about ten minutes. BTW, Grant's bike had a big ol'basket on the front too which didn't appear to slow him down. Ride what you like and how you like, for sure, but there are all sorts of ways to do it in style, fast, and safely (enough).

climb, remind me to have you around when there is more heat than light at our dinner table!! thanks, bud!!!

e-richie, btw, may have not much interest in computers but he's nobody's slug when it comes for fast and cadence. Been there. I tell'ya'.

dbrk

[e-RICHIE]

dbrk-issimo wrote (snipped):
"One more thing...Not too long ago I rode a coupla' days in a row with my pal Grant. Grant does indeed ride in Keds or Converse canvas sneakers and uses just plain platform pedals, total phred style. I would wager the farm (and...uhh...I happen to own a farm....) that Grant could mostly ride away from just about all of us."


this is true.
i've pedaled with g-man many times.
he can go, girl.
thanks for reading.
e-RICHIE

[Tony Edwards]

I'm enjoying the discussion, and I hope neither vaxn8r nor dbrk takes offense at the other - from what I can see both sides have shown mutual respect and articulated their positions eloquently. For my part, I have great respect for dbrk, but don't see myself going back to clips and straps, much less platform pedals, for longer rides. I do want to build a fixie with clips and straps one of these days, though, and maybe it'll take hold . . .

[slowgoing]

There is no right or wrong. Whatever works works.

I liked clips, now I like clipless, especially the two sided kind where you don't have to look down. No more clipless on the mountain bike, though. Got pretty good at quickly unclipping, I thought, until that one day in Moab on Slickrock when I almost couldn't get off the bike in time before it reverse endo'd back down the grade. Changed to platforms that day and have never looked back.

[Climb01742]

a computer that tells you what gear you're in?
who makes that?

shimano's flight deck has a gear indicator display. i know it's a lazy man's function. guilty as charged. but it sure is easy and at times i find it very useful. like it can help me objectify subjective feelings, such as: a hill feels easier one day, i look down and i'm in a 39x17, whereas most days i tackle the hill in a 39x19, so it quantifies "gee, i feel good today."

again, were i more experienced, i could glance at my rear cluster and know the difference between my 16 or 17 in an iinstant, but i ain't that good. my flight deck helps there.

for me, the key to this whole discussion is: we each have our own goals, likes, moods and what we value. cycling is a big, big tent. under it, we can experience our own cycling flavor with joy, and with respect for others savoring their flavor. if baskin robbins can have 39 flavors, why can't cycling? viva la cookies & cream!

[SMUGator]

Bummed me out when I got back into the sport after a bit of a layoff and couldn't find Detto Pietros. Still had old Suntour track pedals on a Carlton Raleigh. But i've moved to Speedplays and like them pretty well too. I did like the larger platform of the old style pedalsmore though.

Glad I bought my wife a computer. Now she knows what a cadence of 90 feels like and she rides faster.

[Ray]

Lemme just clarify one point that I seem to have made poorly. When I say "normal" looking shoes, I mean _cycling_ shoes with nice, flat bottoms (not lugged mtn shoes), that look normal. I never meant street shoes. My old Reynolds England shoes (I should take a picture of these for folks) are more than appropriate for work. Ray might remember these 'cause Rivendell sold them ages ago and he and I are older than Noah who brought a pair of race bikes _and_ some day tourers both on the ark, as I recall.
Twas clear, and yeah I remember those from the ark, as well as the couple pair of Sidi touring shoes I squirelled away. But the Sidi's are more "cycling specific ballet slipper" looking than a lot of the casual SPD shoes around these days and the Reynolds, IIRC, were like formal evening attire (hence your wedding and funeral choices, no?), neither of which would work near as well in the office I worked in as some of those casual spd shoes.

I never found clips and straps uncomfortable in the least, but I do find clipless to be more convenient in any number of ways.

In any case, I agree with Douglas's point and the general emerging consensus that we need more choices in types of cycling gear, not fewer, and find it ironic that I, at the moment, am pretty into the narrow band of racy stuff that's easily available given that I eschewed it for so long. But I'll be BAAAACCCKKK, as I think Ahhhnold once said.

-Ray

[Climb01742]

douglas, an old testament prophet is not a bad role at all. or maybe it's like speaker's corner on a sunday in london's hyde park. we may not jump on to your bandwagon, but your wagon is, perhaps, subtly shifting the direction of, and certainly enriching, our wagons. i'm going clipless today, and going ti, but you know what? i'll stop a few times today to look, to smell, and to appreciate.

[peacefulwarrior]

I run clipless on my go-fast bike; however, for my commuter, platforms best fit my lifestyle. As I work in a restaurant, I stumbled upon my favorite shoes in a "form follows function" sort of way: a pair of Dansko "professional" clogs (the ones with the wrap around heel) - all day comfort and stiffer than carbon fiber :D

[vaxn8r]

I think, ol'vax, I feel a tad misunderstood but not offended.

dbrk
Maybe I did misunderstand. I thought you were talking about clipless and cleats vs straps and cleats. There never has been a "cleat" you could walk on easily so I simply couldn't understand where you were coming from. I surmise now you mean a flat bottom shoe without cleats. I got a little lost because you were talking about the Nag being a race bike...

Anyway, I wasn't meaning to belabor the point. My point was that I sometimes feel in your zest for "classic" (not retro as that can be construed as negative) not just a disapproval towards the "industry", which we hear about from time to time from e-Richie anyways, but a disapproval for those who might actually enjoy some of the benefits technology has brought us. You still don't really love riding your Parlee, but there's a bunch of us who do (by that I mean cloth-and-glue bikes). Clipless pedals made a world of difference for my comfort on the bike. When Look came out with their pedal it was honestly one of the happier days in my riding history as I could ride further and longer in comfort. I always had foot pain with those darn straps, maybe the way they came across the side of my foot or something. Anyway, as I was enjoying your postings I began to feel defensive about my choices. I'm sure it wasn't you intent.

Newer isn't always better but sometimes it can be. And the choice for new technology doesn't always have to promote negative connotations of consumerism, Hummers and miltaristic shoes does it? Will you grant me that?

[jeffg]

is giving us an example of a mild polemic, the one designed to encourage debate and diversity of viewpoints. As he well knows, the civil polemic is a lost art these days (it being preferable for politicians to issue veiled threats on national television when decisions do not go their way).

In any event, I think we are moving towards an impoverished bike culture, but I admit I prefer smooth road riding on a racer-type bike to almost all else. I would like a bike for gravel roads someday soon, but just tend to get the riding in that I can on my Legend or Hampsten in the spirit of "training" for events I love.

I almost feel the sensibilities dbrk values are ones that one needs time for, a little tranquility inside and out. I am happy that he at least, is having those experiences.

[dauwhe]

This weekend, I found a solution to the "computer problem" that works for me. My Saluki has a handlebar bag; the computer lives inside the bag. If I need to check it (for navigating on Brevets) I can; during the ride it's not in my face, telling me I'm going too slow up the hills, and at the end I can check how far I went.

I wouldn't mind one of those old Huret cyclometers that attached to the front hub and showed only trip distance and total distance. But I like the maximum speed function of modern computers, especially if I don't have to look at it while I'm riding!


Dave Cramer
Brattleboro, Vermont
friction downtube shifters and Speedplay Frog pedals!

[davids]

I like having easy access to my current speed & cadance, and (especially) a clock. I don't look at it often, but I'm glad to be able to glace down at the info.

I probably look at the computer about as often as I look at the spedometer and tachometer when driving.

When my bike's on the trainer, on the other hand, I probably look at the computer every 30 seconds... :(